Hi all,<BR>This is my first time ever to post a message anywhere. I am a little nervous. I have a dilema that has made me feel that I need some assistance. A few weeks ago I heard 2 messages on my H's cell phone from a co-worker. She did not identify herself, but I know her and her voice. She said in one message that she had been shopping the previous day with a friend and she turned off her cell phone because she thought my H would call her and she needs to be careful around that friend. She then said that she had to work that day and she would keep her cell phone in her pocket so that he could call her. It was a Sunday, which is normally our family day. She then asked about a procedure that he had on his back the week before and said that if it didn't help she had some "ideas on how to make it feel better." I could tell in her voice in both messages that she likes my H for more than just a friend. I confronted my H about these messages and he denied any wrong doing, of course. After much talk and crying he mostly convinced me. I told him to tell her never to call again and that they could no longer talk at work (he has changed deparments) or I would call her husband and tell him all I found. He said that he did this. I know that I have no way of monitoring this since they work at the same place. There is also another night that he has never accounted for in my opinion. It was a few months ago and he called me around 8:00 p.m. saying that there was a big traffic jam. After 4 hours of not being able to reach him, my mom came over to watch our children and let me go look for him. I went all the way to the hospital where he works and never saw any sign of him. Around 1:30 a.m. he called (I was still driving) and said he had assisted in a big accident (he is in the medical profession) and lost track of time and had left his cell phone in his car. I didn't see any sign of an accident, but dropped it after a while. I have never been comfortable with the account of that night. A few weeks later he went out and bought me a huge diamond ring because "he loves me so much." He is gone today golfing for 2 days with some buddies and I looked through one of his day planners. He wrote his name in the front and she wrote "sex fiend" with an arrow pointing to his name. I know her writing because I have a home business and she has purchased things from me before. <BR>The thing that confuses me is that he does not act differently toward me. I have been reading all of the posts about the "fog" and men not acting the same toward their W's. This is not the case here. My H is still very loving toward me and our children (we have 2 young children). We have been going out on more dates and are planning a vacation by ourselves in 2 months. I am sure you can see that I want to believe him, but also do not want to be a fool. He still wants to have sex (can I say that?) with me often. Other than the things I have found, there would seem to be no indications of an A. I guess I would like some educated opinions as whether or not to believe him. <BR>Thank you for listening!

Window:<BR> My opinion, yes. go to windancer and read my comments to you.

Window,<BR>I'm sorry to say this but I have to agree with K9, my hunch is yes. <BR>As far as no change in his actions/attitude twards you. For what it's worth, my W never changed her attitude towards me either. Actually some things became better after she was deep into it. Maybe to make up for some of the guilt.<P>I'm sorry you find yourself in this position. You have come to the right place.<P>One suggestion I have is follow NSR's post titled "General Welcome for All New Builders" It is loaded with things you will need to know.<P>Start your plan A. <P>Know that you are not alone in this, <BR>oswald<P>

Oswald, thank you for your advice. I have wanted a man's opinion of his actions. As always I am still praying that I am wrong. I will look at what you told me to when my little ones take a nap today. I was so depressed yesterday that I didn't do much with them. I am going to try to get back to normal today. <P>Are you still with your W? I am sorry that we are all going through this. I really like this site, though. It has been very helpful.<P>Take care,<BR>Window

Window,<BR>Yes I am still very much with my W, and even though I sometimes struggle I am still very in love. <P>I post mainly in the Recovery group but check out the JFO group once in while because it’s where I started and I remember how awful the beginning was. My best advice is read read read. I know it will be tough with little ones to tend too. But the best thing you can do to prepare yourself is educate yourself. <P>Somehow the whole thing became a bit more bearable once I learned how and why A’s happen, and that anyone can find themselves mixed up in one.<P>oswald <BR>

Your situation sounds a little familiar to mine. Nov00 I found some evidence of an A and confronted my H. We discussed it, he denied it and we went to bed. The next morning we woke up and the first thing he told me was a total lie to cover up the evidence I found. It didn't seem quite right but I accepted it. About a week later I even told him that I would accept and forgive anything because I loved him so much but could not accept being lied to. He swore that there wasn't anything.<P>A couple months later I found out he had a secret email account and discovered that he had met someone twice for discreet daytime encounters. Now that we are 2.5 months after D day he tells me that he is glad that I found out because he is now becoming a different person. He has told me that my finding the evidence in Nov00 made him realize that he could lose me and that made him love me that much more. I had found the evidence about 1 week after their second meeting. He became very nice and attentive because of his guilt. The problem with the guilt is that after about 1.5 months he started finding all kinds of things wrong with me. I think he needed to find bad things about me to start to make him feel less guilty about what he had done. <P>The bottom line in my situation is that I'm not sure how things would have worked out if I would have never found out. My H had always had a problem with lying and secrets his whole life and he feels (and I hope) that my discovery and the constant struggle that we are going through has made him realize that the cost of lying and secrets is too great. I don't know if our M will survive. It would have been much easier had I found out everything in Nov 00 but then again I would have forgiven him much sooner (I still haven't) and maybe he wouldn't have really learned.<P>The pain of this has been unbearable at times but then before I knew for sure I would sometimes imagine the worst and feel some of the pain anyways. I glad I know what I have to deal with and that I'm not constantly wondering if he did have an A. I know he did and now we can deal with it.<P>That's my story.

I feel like I am on a roller coaster. I still have some reading to do. It is difficult to find the time w/2 little ones and a home business to run. I am sure this is normal. I appreciate everyone who replies. Yesterday I tried to be positive, but today I am feeling very depressed again. The uncertainty is so difficult. I have to take my older one to school now, so I will check here later.<P>Take care,<BR>Window

Alarm bells are ringing. I have had 9 years of great relations with my wife, yet she has cheated through most of it. My rock solid evidence was cell phone bills. That's all. If you have messages and "sex fiend"----> then you have much more than I did. My wife felt very guilty and so she relented the truth. Your H might be scared of many things if this is true. Divorce, children, money, scandal, or just plain losing the one he has become unnaturally attached to. Deep down he may still love you. I lost a sister 7 years ago. The infidelity has hurt more than the loss of my sister. Get your self some good counseling. <A HREF="http://www.wlcfs.org" TARGET=_blank>www.wlcfs.org</A> You have two little ones. Give them what they deserve, get to the truth, raise your kids in a truthful home. You must decide. I pray for you.<P>God bless

Thank you, Invictus. I just found the cell phone bill from January 2001. There are more than 30 calls to her in about 25 days. I called and asked him about it. He admitted that they talked more than he originally said (he didn't have a choice, did he?) but maintains they were just friends. He is mad at me right now for digging. He says that I am just looking for trouble. I asked him what happened to Feb. cell bill, but he doesn't know. Right! I am sorry about your wife and sister! I feel like I cannot even function right now. I never could have imagined this pain. Thanks for the website. I have been thinking I/we need counseling (although he will never consent to it). My baby is waking up. More later.<P>Take care,<BR>Window

Window,<BR>Thinking it's an A hurts, <BR>Knowing it by finding proof can be devistating. <P>No matter what you find remember it always gets better, and you have somewhere to come and talk. <P>As for finding out, the cell phone does seem to always get them. Call the cell service and request a copy of his/your bills for the past 6 months. Tell them you think you discovered an error and want to re check the bills, have them fax them if it's possible.<P>If it's in his name only, they will give them to you. Just tell them your him. Have his SS#, Birth Date, Mothers Maiden Name, etc. ready, how do they know he doesn't have a high voice, tell them your gay I bet they send the records.<P>oswald

Fasten your seatbelt! The ride gets very bumpy. I was where you are 2 years ago. It's getting better for me now, but it has really taken that long. You think things are improving, just to have them crash again. Seems like everyone on the board goes through the ups and downs. I also thought and wanted to believe my H was "just friends" with the OW. Same thing, cell phone bills, unaccounted for time. This went on for about a year. We separated for a few months, got back together, and are in our second separation. All this so he could get his head together. I know exactly where you're coming from. I have a home business and three kids (4, 8 & 11). I know what it feels like to be "stuck" caring for kids while he is out running around. Looking back, I should have set boundaries early. Either he wants to be there or not. He needs to be honest with himself and you. I know it's not fair, I also know what it feels like to sit in; your bathroom and cry for an hour hoping the kids won't hear you. I know the depression that can make you literally unable to move or function. Get professional help. I went on meds for a few months so I could concentrate. The day I forgot to feed my children was the day I realized I was out of control.<P><BR>If this sounds harsh, it is. You must force yourself to take care of yourself even when you don't want to. The children deserve at least one well functioning parent!

Window:<BR>Sorry for your pain. Your story sounds like mine. Our DDay was October 22, 2000. Found a letter from W to OP (unknown at the time). W verbally agreed to "no contact" after finding her at his house in late January but I have found evidence to the contrary since then (cell and regular phone bills). The statement pages listing local long distance keep disappearing (hmmm). I have been really trying to focus on Plan A. She has insisted there has never been a PA but have real doubts there too. Has always said he is just a really good friend (her "best friend" she admitted early on; should have risen a HUGE red flag). She was very attentive to my needs when I first found out, but becomes irritable and occasionally hostile whenever I confront her with anything. They have both gotten better at hiding this "frienship" but we become good detectives too. Trust means everything to me and she just can't understand that. <P>My advice will echo the others here: learn about and inpliment Plan A for as long as you can. "SAA" has been helpful to me at least and I'd recommend it. We just haven't had money for counselling (the money-thing being an attractive side of the OP) but I wholeheartedly believe in the Harley's advice. <P>I do think the guilt does strange things to the WS. Even if there has been no PA at this point, I would suspect a EA.<P>Try to take care of your own health (mentally, physically & spiritually) as well as your kids. Plan A is about becoming a better you. It seems to be working for us but I don't feel out of the woods yet. <P>MM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ifeelstupid:<BR><B>Window:<BR>Sorry for your pain. Your story sounds like mine. Our DDay was October 22, 2000. Found a letter from W to OP (unknown at the time). W verbally agreed to "no contact" after finding her at his house in late January but I have found evidence to the contrary since then (cell and regular phone bills). The statement pages listing local long distance keep disappearing (hmmm). I have been really trying to focus on Plan A. She has insisted there has never been a PA but have real doubts there too. Has always said he is just a really good friend (her "best friend" she admitted early on; should have risen a HUGE red flag). She was very attentive to my needs when I first found out, but becomes irritable and occasionally hostile whenever I confront her with anything. They have both gotten better at hiding this "frienship" but we become good detectives too. Trust means everything to me and she just can't understand that. <P>My advice will echo the others here: learn about and inpliment Plan A for as long as you can. "SAA" has been helpful to me at least and I'd recommend it. We just haven't had money for counselling (the money-thing being an attractive side of the OP) but I wholeheartedly believe in the Harley's advice. <P>I do think the guilt does strange things to the WS. Even if there has been no PA at this point, I would suspect a EA.<P>Try to take care of your own health (mentally, physically & spiritually) as well as your kids. Plan A is about becoming a better you. It seems to be working for us but I don't feel out of the woods yet. <P>MM</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I feel Stupid:<P>I guess I must not be doing things right. I jumped right over plan A and straight into Plan B. I cannot for the life of me want him in my home right now. I am afraid I will be one of those who is trying to prolong the inevitable. I cannot make myself forgive, I am sooo angry I don't want to be the loving wife, caretaker of his needs. I did that and he had an A. I guess in all reality I am not working toward reunition,I do have thoughts of going on without him, a lot.I am in counseling, thank god for my job which has excellent insurance, but even my counselor says it will be very difficult to work this out. I don't want to lead my H on but yet I truly do not know what I want. 2nd best has never been a spot I liked. <P>As far as being a good detective now, give me some pointers and ideas. I feel I too am becoming better at looking. Take care, just had to vent.

Hi Window,<P>Sorry to hear about the cell phone bills. I agree with the poster that said you should get copies of the bills. You need to find out. He needs to know that you can't be brushed off. My H said that because I could be brushed off before that he figured he could keep doing it.<P>My H would become very angry when I would find some evidence. Now that I know the truth, I realize that he would get angry whenever I was finding a little more evidence that would prove his deception. He would pull the line of - don't you trust me, don't you believe me, I would never do anything like that, you know how much I love you, I could never risk losing you. bullsh***.<P>I'm having a bad day today. One of the things that helped as well is not to confront him while angry. I think this puts their defenses on and makes them need to deny. If you can speak to him calmly without getting upset and too emotional he may be more willing to discuss things with you. I know it's very difficult to be calm. I certainly wasn't. But it was only when we could have calm conversations did he finally admit. <P>Keep us posted.

Thank you all for the advice. As usual, I appreciate it. I did call the cell company and ask for the last six months of detailed statements. I recounted and found 74 calls for the month of Jan. He still maintains the just friends stnace. He is not home from work yet. He has to work late because one of his employees left early and he has to cover until 7:00 or so. I wish I could follow him. I also looked up his credit card on line and printed up the last 6 statements. Nothing looks too fishy, though. One upsetting thing is that he called her 3 times on the day we went out for our anniversary. 2 times when we went out to buy the puppy for my birthday. How is doing this, I wonder? Where was I? There is one call to her cell at 4:29 a.m. when he left early for work to give his night shift their monthly staff meeting. My best friend says that all I have is circumstantial evidence at this time and I am going to have to decide how to move forward. She agrees that he needs to leave his present job, but that could take a month. I need to give my cuties their bath and get them ready for bed now. I plan on spending some serious time reading my Bible and praying tonight. Thank you all again! I love this forum. You are all so supportive.<P>God bless,<BR>Window

It helps me to help others. I am so glad you are all helping yourselves too. I crouched and cried in my kitchen last night. I cried like a child. One thing I have realized is that we all do mean things. Some of us just fall into a pit of meaness and cheat. When I was a kid I would steal candy from stores. It got to where it was very hard to quit. We all love chocolate right!? That is one way I look at my W. It sounds simplistic. It is. It is the only way I can forgive her.<P>The main thing right now is SELF IMPROVEMENT. I have lost 15 pounds!! The anxiety has helped. I am also working out and working out frustration. Sometimes we must be an island of sorts. When our spouse cheats it's like abandonement.<P>k9love wrote:<P>I cannot for the life of me want him in my home right now.<P>ME TOO, BUT MY WIFE HAS OTHER ISSUES THAT DO NOT ALLOW THIS.<P>I am afraid I will be one of those who is trying to prolong the inevitable. I cannot make myself forgive, I am sooo angry.<P>ME TOO, BUT FORGIVENESS IS FOR YOU, NOT THE INFIDEL<P>I don't want to be the loving wife, caretaker of his needs. I did that and he had an A.<P>ONCE AGAIN, ME TOO. I SCRUBBED TOILETS AT A SECOND JOB TO SUPPORT HER BULL@#%&! YOU ARE A WIFE, ONLY YOU CAN DECIDE IF THAT CONTINUES. STOP BEING A CARETAKER! THAT SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING YOU DO TO AN INANIMATE OBJECT, LIKE A MUSEUM!!! I STRONGLY URGE YOU TO BE LOVING, EVEN IF YOU LEAVE. IF YOU DONT GO ABOUT THINGS THE RIGHT WAY, YOU WILL LIVE WITH REGRET FOREVER. SEEKING A QUICK WAY OUT SOUNDS GOOOD, BUT IT WILL HURT YOU TOO. GIVE IT ALL YOU'VE GOT SO THAT WHEN YOU LEAVE, YOU FEEL GOOD ABOUT YOU.<P> I guess in all reality I am not working toward reunition,I do have thoughts of going on without him, a lot.<P>UNFORTUNATELY, ME TOO. I HAVE REMADE A FAITH(GOD) BASED COMMITMENT TO HER. I HAD ONE CHANCE TO LEAVE. IT TOOK LESS THAN 20 SECONDS AFTER I HEARD THE OM'S VOICEMAIL TO DECIDE. IF I HAD WANTED TO LEAVE, I WOULD NEVER HAVE CONFRONTED HER. I WOULD HAVE COLLECTED EVIDENCE FOR THE DIVORCE. WHAT HAS EVERYONE ELSE DONE?

Window,<P>Thanks for the thought that asking questions is a way of getting closer through honesty. What a mine field. We are a 100% better today/last night.<P>How are you?

Hi Invictus,<P>I am feeling much better today. My H came home early yesterday because I was so upset. That was nice. I know there are more rough days ahead, but I will take the good ones when they come. <P>We are going away tomorrow by ourselves. My mom is coming to stay w/our boys. We got a little secluded cottage w/a hot tub. I definitely think we need it. My H was hoping that the cell bills that I ordered for the last 6 months wouldn't come in before our trip. I just got the mail and they weren't there. He says it just more of the same. Too painful to think about right now.<P>I'm glad that you're better today. I hope we can all have a good weekend. I am going to do my best to not think about it too much. I want to get away and forget all of my problems. That may be wishful thinking, but I have been working on memorizing Psalm 31. It is about asking the Lord for strength. With His help, I will get through this and my marriage will be stronger. <P>Thanks for inquiring about me today. You might check that Psalm out if you like. It is really helping me.<P>God bless,<BR>Window

It's great to hear that you are getting away. My H and I are getting away for the day tomorrow. Have you found out if there was a PA? Sounds like whatever happened maybe he's out of it now?<P>I'm having a really good day too. I've turned my heart towards God for the first time in quite a few months. It's amazing how that can change your spirits.<P>Have a great weekend!

As far as I know there is not a PA. I hope you and your H have a great time. I am really looking forward to going.<P>Yes, I agree that turning to God is the answer. I have been reading Psalm 31 today. It is great! I definitely recommend it. Have a great weekend.<P>Window