Got your emails read both and I just posted on my thread so please read. It is too long to repeat. Thanks for the emails. I'll email you later.<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

RMA, read your first page - it was right on! I've been working with Steve's sister, Jennifer. It's funny I never see her mentioned on the forum, but she co-wrote the book Surviving an Affair" with her Dad. Do encourage your h to talk to Steve, my h actually told Jenn before he told me. I set up the counseling, not even knowing what we were dealing with. Definitely, if you want the marriage, you need to show him.<P>I was fortunate that Jenn was working with us from the very first, when I found out. So I knew I had a clear choice to love him and meet his needs or alienate him. As upset as I was, I saw so clearly that to lash out would only make it harder for me later since I knew I wanted the marriage. I'd been reading Harley a lot (by then I knew we had problems, just not what) so I saw clearly that to punish him would not be in MY best interest and wouldn't work anyway.

schizzo,<P>Well, you did better than me when I found out. I was a basket case - in total shock and denial for a long time. Then in anger and demanding that he give the OW up. Then I was crying, bargaining and begging in the names of "logic" and "reasoning". None of it worked. Then these past months tried to avoid H and leave him alone and that doesn't work either. <P>I know my H. He just wants to ride this out until the conclusion - the affair is sustainable and his love for me dies or the affair dies its natural death. I HATE the wait, but what ya gonna do????????<P>Roll Me Away <P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

I think when it gets to the point that our spouses leave then the only thing we can do is wait for the death of the affair. We just have to keep making those ol'love deposits some way to make sure the marriage doesn't die before the affair.<BR>Did you check your email?<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

RMA, As I said it worked out the best possible way. Having Jenn's support, knowing there was at least a possibility of recovering and having an even better relationship. But he told me that same night he was ending it there and then. We sent the no contact letter together. He had talked to the pastor 2 weeks before. His approach was to point out there was no future for him and the OW (in his case it was very true, apart from me). So he was ready to end it. The next weeks were still very tough as I dealt with hurt and anger and he with withdrawal. I was so completely shocked. I even questioned my commitment not only to him but to doing the right thing. I really wanted to go have one myself. But thank God, we are well on the way to rebuilding. It's hard, but distract yourself if your emotions are running wild. I think this applies as much to getting one's hopes up, as it does to "looping" with thoughts of the betrayal. Take it light, live each day, but your 2 hour conversation sounds very positive!

RMA:<P>Glad to hear that session #2 went well. And just reading your post brought Steve's voice ringing back in my ears. I should call him just to check in... <P>Glad that you had a great phone conversation with your husband as well. Great "baby steps"...<BR>

schizzo,<P>Thanks for the encouragement!!<P>Dr. K,<P>Well, somebody has to step up where Sir Hurts Alot left off...are you SURE you aren't Steve????<P>I don't care if you are! Yes, it was a good beginning. Now, I have another questionI should have asked Steve. if things go well on Monday (my plan is to act like we are on a date - be nice and interested in him and NOTHING about us, the affair or problems) do I sit back and wait for him to make the next move? Or if he doesn't, can I wait a few days and then reachout again?? Assuming we have a nice time, I will tell him at the end that I really enjoyed myslef and would like to spend some time with him. Not sure if this is a good idea or not. <P>I am probably getting way ahead of myslef....<P>Roll Me Away<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Roll Me Away<P>I'll put my 2 cents in for what it's worth<P>Try not and get too worked up about it beforehand (I know it will be hard after such a long time not to be nervous). Don't forget though he will most probably be just as apprehensive. <P>I think your idea of not talking about the affair and the issues between you is a great start, bound to lead to some LBs if you did.<P>The idea of a date sounds also good, try and capture some of the things that attracted you to each other in the first place, recall some of the good times you have shared together. Most important just try and be yourself with no big game plan on this first date. After all, the ultimate aim of this date is to both feel comfortable and relaxed in each others company, which will inevitably lead to others dates, right!<P>RMA, I wish you all the best as you surely deserve it.<P>Regards<BR>Fairenough <p>[This message has been edited by fairenough (edited December 12, 1999).]

Desiree, (WARNING - mine might be even longer!!)<P>I'd like to communicate by e-mail with you, too if you are willing. My e-mail is <P>kdoula@netscape.net<P>I have also been in counseling with Steve Harley, his sister, AND his dad. <P>Remember, if you have read the info on his dad - Dr. Willard Harley, you will see that he saw MOST marriage therapy failing to keep couples together. So he developed new, EFFECTIVE strategies based on what was NOT working for other therapists, and on what WAS WORKING for couples that he was counseling. <P>Therefore, you may want to consider that your current therapist is quite possibly in the NOT effective category. Look for a new one, one that is willing to implement Steve's methods.<P>As for those of you who cannot afford Steve's therapy ($75.00 per hour): you can use a credit card, or ask a friend or relative, or your church, (someone who is behind you 100% in your stand for your spouse's return) to assist, loan, or give you the money. It is money well invested, believe me!!!<P>As for you, Desiree, YES, have lots of hope. Not just because of your H's positive response, but because the Harley method's WORK, and because God hates divorce <BR>(Malachi 2:16). Believe in the power of prayer. God created marriage; He created families. He hears our cries and wants to restore our broken relationships as much as we want them restored. <P>BE encouraged, but tread carefully. I wouldn't allow your H to know how excited you are. Maybe use words like hopeful, or encouraged, in a CALM way.<P>Tell you what, I'm in the same boat as lots of others who get a silent response or a glance in the other direction when I say I love you to my H. So, I'm excited with you.<P>TO ALL: Remember, until your spouse sees the path of destruction they are leaving behind (typical to deny, minimize, or ignore when in an addiction) they will continue on in their addictive behavior, because of the high they experience.<P>God bless,<BR>Karen

Desiree,<P>Like Karen says, you MUST remain calm. That's been my secret weapon - my innate calm nature, combined with the miracles of modern medicine (Zoloft).<P>By remaining calm & in control of your emotions, it takes the pressure off of H, & allows him to deal with his firestorm of emotions. If he is anything like my H, he is going through a midlife meltdown. My H has commented to me on several occasions how my calmness, love, & patience are helping him to work his way through this mess. <P>As hard as it will be, you can't come across as excited, you can't push, you can't try to control, you can't get upset, & whatever you do, DO NOT as much as mention OW.<P>Like what has already been said - Hope for the best, expect the worst, and take what you get.<P>Hugs, & prayers for you, Desiree.

Good Morning, Dear Friends!<P>Yes, Medic, I AM smiling and happy in case you were wondering. I know how well I keep my emotions concealed...NOT! <P>fairenough,<P>I got your e-mail this morning and have already replied. Thanks for the tips - to act like this is just a date. Gosh, it has been awhile fo rme, but I can still act coy and flirt without coming on tooo strong. One thing going for me is that my H and I do not have anger between us right now....the only thing is this OW! Talking can be easy because we do have so much in common. Thanks for the great advice!! <P>kalise,<P>I will e-mail you in a little bit. Yes, I am interested i what the Harleys are telling you. My counselor, Fred, is really more interested in helping me to protect myself from more hurt. I also had a lot of trouble trying to come to terms to this affair, because I never expected - hit me like a lightning bolt from nowhere!!! So, Fred has been very helpful in many respects. But, Steve Harley also told me that Fred did the wrong thing - for our one and only joint counseling session (and my H's ONLY counseling session) Fred told him we could not work on ur marrigae until he gave up the OW. Steve said wrong move - likens that to saying to a drug addict I will treat you AFTER you kick the drug habit. Well, that makes sense to me that I can more easily see why my H never went back to counseling!!!<P>By the way, the cost for the sessions is now $85 each. I paid via credit card.<P>sidney,<P>More good advice. I will psyche myself up to really believe this is a DATE and to act like it. I would do nothing on a date to push or presume anything, so certainly will try my best to remember that. Also, I would never ask a first date when are we going to have a second date. But, I would say how much I enjoyed this date and look forward to getting to know him better.....somehow I will work that in at the end of the date.<P>I really do appreciate everyones' kind words and advice. As I have said so many times, and it is 100% true - I have NO objectivity for my own situation. I just see things after the fact, and sometimes it is too darn late. Keep your prayers and well-wishes coming my way!!!! <P>Thank you, one and all......<P>Desiree<P><P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

RMA,<P>Just took a break from decorating. Boy, I only have a rotten lousy stinking 9 foot tree. How do you rate? That's OK my home in Va Beach will have a umm... umm... a 50 foot ceiling, yeah that's the ticket!<P>Hey for real, stay focused. This is crunch time. Don't make yourself look too desperate to get back together. [I did that in the past and it doesn't work] Just make him aware that you MIGHT be interested in fixing the marriage. Stay cool, think before you talk, I always have problems with that, be his friend first. You catch more flies with honey than Brian, I mean cat turds, not wait, OH never mind!<P>Things are going out way! July 22, 2000 is looking good. <P><P>------------------<BR>"It's not over till we say it's over! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? H*ll no!" Blutto...Animal House 1984<P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic<P>