We went out to dinner last night. my wife is pretty and men look constantly, I caught her glancing at a man who was flirting with his eyes. He must have passed by 8 times and always looked right at her. He wasn't our waiter but he sure was helpful. He stopped at our table 3-4 times! He always spoke to my wife, not me.<P>This led to questions later that night. She denies noticing him. I know I am being really jealous. i started to ask questions about her first affair.<P>After 6-7 weeks since D-day, why do I want to know details of my wifes affairs? I find myself asking general questions about when it went on and with who, and when it ended and why. Then I ask questions about who knew and how etc. It eventually leads to some dirty detail that really hurts. My wife doesn't intend it that way, but I ask until she answers. Then I feel hurt, but I can't help that. Last night I cried in my kitchen. I ended up apologizing because my wife complained about me bringing things up late at night. 10:30PM Why do I want to know these things that just bring up resentment? I really don't want the UGLY details. I feel I am entitled to the whole story, and I still feel there is some peices missing. I also want to build myself up so that I can see it wasn't my fault. I know I made mistakes, but she never told me anything. I don't even know where we are in recovering from this.

You are hurting and you want a closure. Asking questions is one way of helping yourself to heal. Yeah, the answers aren't what we want to hear but for some reason it helps us. Maybe it allows us to become closer to our spouse because everything is out on the table. <P>You mentioned the word Affairs, as in plural. Does this mean your wife has had more than one? Jealousy, especially after finding out your spouse was intimate with another is perfectly normal. You are perfectly right in wanting answers. I too pushed until I got them. My husband keeps saying I found out too much, that it makes healing harder. I am not of the thought that what I don't know won't hurt. I am more of the philosophy I want to know. <P>As the injured spouse we have rights. Do we want to stay with someone who can't be faithful? Do we have things in our life that would fulfull us also, but because of our relationship we put our needs aside. After I found out about my husband's affair I've come to the realization that life is too short not to enjoy every possible minute of it. At this point we are together but my own wants and needs will now be met. Food for thought.

Invictus, I feel that your W was completely out of line looking at the other man at dinner last night. I would have been furious. That seems to reek of disrespect for you. <P>I, too, want all of the answers. No matter how painful, I want to know. I can deal with facts, but the questions linger. If I don't know then I will contemplate the answers in my head. The answers may or may not be as difficult to consume as my concoctions. The fact is that we will probably never know everything, because we are relying on someone who has proven themselves a liar, to tell us the truth. This probably isn't helping you. I am having a bad bad day. I just want to curl up in bed, turn out the lights, and cry, but I have to take care of my kids.<P>Take care. I hope you have a better day.<BR>Window<p>[This message has been edited by window (edited March 29, 2001).]

Window,<P>I hope you have a better day tomorrow.<P>You said: "If I don't know then I will contemplate the answers in my head."<P>I agree. Last night I learned a dirty detail and found out that my wifes first lover didn't measure up. She stated this after we spoke of the dirty detail and how it made me feel. I will take this thought of yours to counseling. Thanks!!!<P>k9love<P>You said:<BR>"You are hurting and you want a closure. Asking questions is one way of helping yourself to heal. Yeah, the answers aren't what we want to hear but for some reason it helps us. Maybe it allows us to become closer to our spouse because everything is out on the table."<P>Yes, I will tell her tonight. In the past I have only said that I can take the truth. She would reveal what would do her good. She feels what I don't know can't hurt me. My imagination can hurt me.<P>You also said:<BR>"You mentioned the word Affairs, as in plural. Does this mean your wife has had more than one? Jealousy, especially after finding out your spouse was intimate with another is perfectly normal. You are perfectly right in wanting answers. I too pushed until I got them. My husband keeps saying I found out too much, that it makes healing harder. I am not of the thought that what I don't know won't hurt. I am more of the philosophy I want to know."<P>Yes she had many affairs. She admitted to many, but not who. I have discovered three of the whos. One I knew. Two were in my house but she still claims she never brought them to our bed. I don't know? Does it matter. I guess it only matters if she is still "protecting" (my word) me. What a load of malarcke. She say's it was kept secret to not hurt me and it just got out of hand. (Pandoras box) She was ready to leave me. She had just found someone who maybe she could be with. She cared for the first one, but she didn't want to get serious, he did. She then shut him down and went on to others who wouldn't hassle her with emotion. I'm sorry, but I am partially working through this as I write. She has an aversion to REAL intimacy. She has told me that many of her partners disgusted her and that she actually preferred to be with me. Strange isn't it? I'm not sure how deeply her troubles go. Deeply I fear. We are in multi weekly counseling. I will go broke to help her, but work is good now.<P>k9love, you are right. I must also look out for me. Thanks all and God bless!!!<P>I care for her deeply. God help me.

Invictus:<P>I think you are much stronger than you believe. One thing I do know: Your W should not make you feel guilty or chastise you because you are in pain at an inconvenient time (10:30 at night). Feeling hurt or crying is not exactly something that we schedule. <BR>I think everyone here can relate to the unbelieveable urge for the truth you are experiencing. When you are asking your wife many questions are you:<BR>-trying to learn what makes her tick, and why she did this?<BR>-forcing her to admit to her acts and the pain she has caused?<BR>-trying to determine if there is a flaw or failing in yourself, by examining her choices?<BR>-simply wanting to get it all over with?<BR>If you can determine why you want to question her deeply, you can decide if the questioning is moving you forward, or hurting you.<P>Stay strong, I know you will find your peace.<P>Robyn<P>Stay strong, and remember that, as you are trying to be respectful, you also deserve respect yourself.<P>

Invictus:<P>Lord, you've got a heart of gold. I admire you! Knowing of more than one affair has to be horrid. I was reading a book last week that dealt with the issue of sex addicts. It talked about the fact that a spouse who has many acts of infidelity may have an addiction to sex. Is your counselor looking at this possibility? <P>I certainly do not have any answers if this is the case. One point that was brought to light in the book dealt with the issue of STD. When your partner has been with many other's you run a higher risk of contacting something yourself. Have you thought of this? If not, take precaution for yourself. Well, I've got to go someone needs to use the phone.<P>My prayers are with you.

You state that your wife has had many affairs and that she has brought them to your home but she claims not in your bed.I am amazed that you wish to stay with this woman. What makes you think that she will not continue to have affairs.<BR>Why would you let yourself continuously be disrespected like this? I think that the betrayed spouse becomes overly dependent on the cheating spouse and becomes willing to accept anything and everything just so they can be with them. I believe that most most men would fine it difficult but be willing to try to forgive a cheating spouse once but not one who has had multiple affairs. It is clear she does not respect you so I think you need to respect yourself and realize you deserve so much better in your life then being forced to cry in your own kitchen. There are many good and wonderful woman in this society who would love to treat you with love and respect. Do not settle for less because you are worth a lot more than you think. Good Luck.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Robyn's Clues:<BR><B>Invictus:<P>I think you are much stronger than you believe. One thing I do know: Your W should not make you feel guilty or chastise you because you are in pain at an inconvenient time (10:30 at night). Feeling hurt or crying is not exactly something that we schedule. <BR>I think everyone here can relate to the unbelieveable urge for the truth you are experiencing. When you are asking your wife many questions are you:<BR>-trying to learn what makes her tick, and why she did this?<BR>-forcing her to admit to her acts and the pain she has caused?<BR>-trying to determine if there is a flaw or failing in yourself, by examining her choices?<BR>-simply wanting to get it all over with?<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Robyn, thanks.<P>Thanks for the ego boost. It's true what you say. I have recognized that I am trying to examine myself and wanting an ending. I am trying to figure out what makes her tick and trying to force her to take ownership more. Last night she did take more ownership and began to understand that staying home is not enough, she has to work at getting better.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by k9love:<BR><B>Invictus:<P>Lord, you've got a heart of gold. I admire you! Knowing of more than one affair has to be horrid. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I told her your stories last night. My point was that some people leave after one affair. I think it rattled her a little which is good, I think. My heart of gold is in heaven. That is why I do this. Even if she leaves, I have given it my all. She will not leave. I think window quoted a scripture that said if one spouse tried, through God, then an unfaithful marriage could be redeemed. We are both working, but I am just waiting for my W to catch up to me.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by k9love:<BR><B>Invictus:<P>I was reading a book last week that dealt with the issue of sex addicts. It talked about the fact that a spouse who has many acts of infidelity may have an addiction to sex. Is your counselor looking at this possibility? <P>I certainly do not have any answers if this is the case. One point that was brought to light in the book dealt with the issue of STD. When your partner has been with many other's you run a higher risk of contacting something yourself. Have you thought of this? If not, take precaution for yourself. Well, I've got to go someone needs to use the phone.<P>My prayers are with you.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes. I am well aware of the distinct possibility of sexual addiction. We are addressing this in counseling. We are both tested for STD's. We are on pins and needles until the 6 month test's come also. Everyone out there should be tested now, one month and six months at least.<P>God bless you,

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bryanp:<BR><B>You state that your wife has had many affairs and that she has brought them to your home but she claims not in your bed.I am amazed that you wish to stay with this woman. What makes you think that she will not continue to have affairs.<BR>Why would you let yourself continuously be disrespected like this? I think that the betrayed spouse becomes overly dependent on the cheating spouse and becomes willing to accept anything and everything just so they can be with them. I believe that most most men would fine it difficult but be willing to try to forgive a cheating spouse once but not one who has had multiple affairs. It is clear she does not respect you so I think you need to respect yourself and realize you deserve so much better in your life then being forced to cry in your own kitchen. There are many good and wonderful woman in this society who would love to treat you with love and respect. Do not settle for less because you are worth a lot more than you think. Good Luck. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thanks Bryan,<P>It doesn't make logical sense does it? Every part of my natural being says to run, yet I didn't. How does that strike you? I would like to hear more about the subject of "over-dependance." I feel there is a string of truth there to be explored. Yes, I will be fine, and if I am forced to find another wife, I will choose much more wisely. I know I could find a woman who would partner with me well. It has been very difficult. Thank you for your kind words? How do you hold up, day after day?<BR>

Invictus,<P>Are you a Dr. Laura fan? I am a pretty big fan of hers. I would recommend you read her book, "10 Stupid Things Men Do To Mess Up Their Lives," and get "10 Stupid Things Women Do To Mess Up Their Lives," for your W. Read the gender appropriate book first and then switch. She recommends all women read the men's and vice versa. Those are the next two books on my list to buy. I cannot say I have read them yet, but I want to. I have heard wonderful things about them. You seem like such a nice guy; so caring, thoughtful, and giving. Your W needs to learn how to treat you better. Just a thought. <P>Take care,<BR>Window

Invictus, window:<P>I have read Dr. Laura - the books are quite helpful and straightforward. I do find her a little hard-line on some things, but worth a read. In coming to terms with making it through each day, I refer to a very close relative who had a major operation recently. After the anasthetic wore off, she opened her eyes and said, "Piece of cake. What's next?" Her positivity has guided her to a great medical recovery. Positive feelings and attitude should never be under-rated in this type of recovery, either. Wake up each morning and congratulate yourself on how well you have done with this great burden. Remind yourself that life opens new doors every day, and that you will not suffer torment forever. Invictus, you could teach many men about what strong really is. You can do anything you set your mind to!<P>Love & Prayers<P>Robyn

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Robyn's Clues:<BR><B>Invictus, window:<P>I have read Dr. Laura - the books are quite helpful and straightforward. I do find her a little hard-line on some things, but worth a read. In coming to terms with making it through each day, I refer to a very close relative who had a major operation recently. After the anasthetic wore off, she opened her eyes and said, "Piece of cake. What's next?" Her positivity has guided her to a great medical recovery. Positive feelings and attitude should never be under-rated in this type of recovery, either. Wake up each morning and congratulate yourself on how well you have done with this great burden. Remind yourself that life opens new doors every day, and that you will not suffer torment forever. Invictus, you could teach many men about what strong really is. You can do anything you set your mind to!<P>Love & Prayers<P>Robyn</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I have listened to Dr. Laura quite often myself. I was also one of the original Oprah fans. Ha ha. I feel like both of you. (Window and Robyn) I am planning on reading "10 stupid things" now that I know there is a mens version. One thing I now disagree with Dr. Laura about is telling about an affair. <P>I feel a lie as big as an A must be revealed. I feel that the essence of the affair leaches into every part of my marriage. I knew before I knew. I would like to share a poem. I have been writing them to help me cope. I haven't written poetry since highschool. Here goes:<P>here am i<P>I waited for you each night.<BR>Felt the cold of your sheets<BR>Each night, building my resentment,<BR>I waited for you to leave.<P>I checked your bed it was cold<BR>The window was broken<BR>I slept a foolish sleep<P>Where is the girl of Spring<P>The wildflowers have been picked too soon<BR>Wilted on the ground with a broken stem<BR>The morning dew spilt on the ground<P>I waited all Spring for the first blooms<BR>I waited all Summer for the fruit<BR>I waited for the Fall of leaves<BR>I waited for the sweet solace of Winter sleep<P>I held my tears in a cold bed<BR>I never meant them for you<BR>Cruel tears break from me<BR>They fall heavily onto your vacant pillow<BR>I never cried in my pillow<BR>I never got the chance<P>The sound has found the girl<BR>Her white dress is torn<BR>The girl is torn<BR>She returns through the window<P>She is a warm breeze from summer<BR>The curtains move<BR>Spring has returned to her bed<P>here am i, no more can be said<P>THIS IS A COPYRIGHTED WORK<P>My counselor also says to concentrate on the positive, everyday things. My wife and I are planning shopping dates. We are both pleased. We both moved away from the joys of sharing each day. I am much more sentimental than she is. So its hard when I see the beauty of a spiders web and she just sees another dusty cobweb. He he. You guys are helping. This started as a bad day. Do you guys ever get just mopy and then just furious? It just comes back like a wave. I have found that embracing the object of our fear, anguish and fury help most. I do not mean that we should give way to our most basic emotions. That is what got our spouses in trouble, but we should embrace our spouse, if they have stopped hurting us.<P>I find myself resenting my love for my wife. It would be easier to decide not to care so much. Hows that for caring. I have always expected to leave if she cheated, but I did not. No one was more surprised than me. I wonder if my wife feels this way. I will ask her tomorrow. I want to be really selfish, but that is wrong. This will pass with Gods help. Does anyone else feel this way at times?<P>My wife has said she was working up to the point of leaving me. I wonder if she really could have done it? Of course she could, but how long would it take her to get there? More questions about what makes her tick?<P>Why is the big question, isn't it?