Hi JL:<P>Thanks for your reply! I realize that I am relying on your experience to help me sort out the issue within myself, with my BF, and with this other person.<BR>Taking stock I think things are as follows:<P>1) Prior to my engagement, there was some interaction between my BF and a woman I thought of as my friend. At the time, I was living with my BF in what I viewed as a secure, monogamous committment. As such, this betrayal hurt me, on two fronts. However, your messages to me suggest that I have taken this occurrence very much out of perspective, and too much to heart. In comparing my situation to the many you have come across, do you feel this is an accurate assessment?<P>2) This is the first incident in my life that has made me feel "paranoid" for months. I have, as mentioned a close circle of both male and female friends, and no friend's interaction with my BF has ever upset me or made me "jealous". I think I do regard myself as worthy. I have a challenging job I enjoy, I feel at peace with my physical appearance and personality, and I have derived great satisfaction from my relationship, with the exception of this incident. I do not feel inferior to this woman, only betrayed by her. Is it possible that counselling could be required over feelings precipitated by a single incident or person?<P>3) This person is not going to disappear tomorrow (wishful thinking). Is it really possible that by bringing positivity into my own life, continuing to move forward and taking a calm stance toward this situation that "life will take care of itself?" I don't want to think about this every day anymore. Now, because you feel (I think) that this problem is primarily an internal one of mine, is there anything further to hash out with my BF? Would that be inviting him into a problem that isn't his? My previous 2 discussions with him (calm, factual, u would have been proud) yielded only reassurances and puzzlement (denials?). <P>My biggest fear is that I have misjudged my fiance, and that he is capable of an affair. <BR>My second biggest fear is that I have misjudged my fiance and he would never/has never done anything to warrant this reaction - it was a calculation on the part of another female.<BR>I hope you do not think I am doing the wrong thing by coming here.<P>God Bless,<BR>Robyn<P><BR> posted April 02, 2001 03:11 PM <P> Robyn,<P>You realize that seeing this girl again triggered the backsliding. That is very good. Now what you need to realize that she isn't the problem. She represents the problem to you. You don't trust your BF. But I also suspect you don't trust yourself either. Now you cannot fix your BF. He will have to prove to you that he is the man you want to marry over the length of your engagement.<P>However, you can address yourself. Why don't you think your BF won't and didn't chose you over this girl. It seems to me, he had a choice and he made it. He asked you to marry him after whatever happened with this girl. You have what he is looking for apparently. Yet, it seems you have doubts. Are they doubts about yourself and why your BF would chose you over her. The data indicates that he did just that.<P>So perhaps, you need to look inward a bit. You have started by realizing the trigger for your backsliding. It may be time to do deeper. You might want to consider a counselor. You won't be happy until you can trust and the person you need to trust most is: YOURSELF. <P>Hope this gives you something to think about.<P> God Bless,<P> JL

Robyn,<P>I will do my best to answer your questions.<P>You asked:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>1) Prior to my engagement, there was some interaction between my BF and a woman I thought of as my friend. At<BR>the time, I was living with my BF in what I viewed as a secure, monogamous committment. As such, this betrayal hurt me, on two fronts. However, your messages to me suggest that I have taken this occurrence very much out of perspective, and too much to heart. In comparing my situation to the many you have come across, do you feel this is an accurate assessment? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes and no! How is that for being useless?? I think you have should have responded to what you know and from what you have said you have discussed it with BF. However, given the context and the timing of the event and the subsequent events, I feel that you have probably taken it too much to heart. I could give you a lot of reasons (excuses) for his behavior. But I won't. <P>I will say one thing to you that will sound like lecturing but isn't intended to be. Living with someone is not a commitment. It may seem to be to you and BF but it is different from marriage. I suspect you feel it now as you are engaged. When you stand up before friends, family, and perhaps God and take a vow of commitment, then you are committed to one another and you will feel the difference. You are correct to address this issue now, before the marriage. You are correct to observe your BF during this time of engagement, for you can indeed change your mind.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> 2) This is the first incident in my life that has made me feel "paranoid" for months. I have, as mentioned a close circle of both male and female friends, and no friend's interaction with my BF has ever upset me or made me<BR> "jealous". I think I do regard myself as worthy. I have a challenging job I enjoy, I feel at peace with my physical<BR>appearance and personality, and I have derived great satisfaction from my relationship, with the exception of this incident. I do not feel inferior to this woman, only betrayed by her. Is it possible that counselling could be required over feelings precipitated by a single incident or person? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Perhaps counseling would be good for both of you. By this I mean marriage counseling. Have you read His Needs Her Needs by Harley? If not, I would suggest you both read it before you get married. I suspect your "jealousy" is derived from the fact that you are not going to be just "friends" with BF but MARRIED to him. My guess is that you are beginning to feel the weight of the impending marriage and you are nervous. Therefore, any distrubance in the "force" will make you very uneasy. Remember, many people view dating as a game. This woman may have taken a run at your BF because he was just that simply a BF. You stated that once you two were engaged she has backed off. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>3) This person is not going to disappear tomorrow (wishful thinking). Is it really possible that by bringing positivity into my own life, continuing to move forward and taking a calm stance toward this situation that "life will take care of itself?" I don't want to think about this every day anymore. Now, because you feel (I think) that this problem is primarily an internal one of mine, is there anything further to hash out with my BF? Would that be inviting him into a problem that isn't his? My previous 2 discussions with him (calm, factual, u would have been proud) yielded only reassurances and puzzlement (denials?).<P>Yes, it is possible to bring positivity into your life. More importantly it is essential that you do so. You sound like a very capable, attractive, nice young woman. Your BF thinks so. The other woman lost. So act positively, bring joy into your life not fear. You have no way of knowing what life will throw at you and you cannot control it. But you can control how you face life. The term I like is face your life with "grace". <P>I don't think you need to hash it out with BF. He is apparently aware of your feelings. You have talked with him. I am sure he feels it is all sorted out by now, which is incorrect. However, what can he do to help you right now? If there is something then talk with him about it. Most men are problem solvers so if you can identify what he can do to help you, please let him know. But both of you read the book I recommended. It may open up some interesting conversations between the two of you and perhaps show you new ways of looking at things. <P>[quote]My biggest fear is that I have misjudged my fiance, and that he is capable of an affair. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Short answer, he is capable of having an affair. If you read here very long, the most important and compelling message is that anyone is capable of having an affair. Often you won't be able to guess ahead of time. If you follow Harley's approach it is about meeting needs. It is clearly more than that because often people who are not having all of their needs met don't have affairs. But circumstances and timing are powerful ingredients. So you should trust your BF, but never believe he is a God. He is human and he has failing as we all do. Not so short answer. <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>My second biggest fear is that I have misjudged my fiance and he would never/has never done anything to warrant<BR>this reaction - it was a calculation on the part of another female.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I am not sure what this sentence means. That you have misjudged him and he wasn't at fault at all. Or that you fear that you have misjudged him in terms of future behavior. In any case judgements are not very good. Assessments are good. You need to assess the state of your relationship, his behavior, etc. I will say one thing though. Remember that you and your BF will change through the years. It is one of the great tests of a marriage to deal with the changes brought about as you age, mature,have children, face economic situations (good and bad), you two will change. <P>That is why I prefer "assessment" rather than "judgement". You don't want to be in the sitution of constantly "judging" your BF/H. But you definitely want to "assess" the state of your relationship on a continuing basis.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I hope you do not think I am doing the wrong thing by coming here. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You are doing the right thing. I don't think your issue is serious, but it has the potential to become serious if not addressed either because: it removes love and trust from you or it is an indication of BF's commitment. But I think that coming here and reading and asking questions you may gain a more realistic expectation for marriage. It is fun, it is stressing, it is challenging, and if not properly taken care of it can be very painful.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Hi JL:<P>I think it's about time I posted with a smiley-face icon for you. I received a promotion today at work. I was very pleased because the new position requires creativity and accountability. In the hallways, some co-workers hugged and kissed me. What a great feeling!! <P>Your insights were a positive end to a really good day. Incdentally, Tuesdays are the days when I see this other woman at a social activity. I intend to share my good mood with everyone and have a pleasant evening. <BR>Here are some comments on your notes:<P>1) Re: living together vs. marriage: I am beginning to see that I am a little behind some of my peers in thinking about the implications of marriage. I have been a free spirit most of my life and did not consider or wish for marriage in my 20's. Yet I can be greatly sensitive, and viewed living together as a serious committment. What I will say now is this: I know marriage will change us, not once but all throughout our lives. If I saw fit to honour monogamy outside of marriage, perhaps that is a loyalty credit on my part. Chalk it up. <P>2) Yes indeed, I feel that this other person is a combination of lonely, single, manipulative and jealous of my place as the creative nerve centre of our crowd. I agree with your phrasing "she took a run at him". Thank you for affirming that I, like all people, can benefit from some marriage preparation. Thank you for pointing out that there IS a chance that I am not going crazy.<P>3) I also subscribe to the theory that if you need help, you need to ask for it. My BF cannot meet my needs unless a) I ask him for assistance and b) he is willing to give that assistance. In this case, the only assistance I need from him would be, if he is approached by this person again, to state that her romantic advances are unwanted. Unless I see her behaviour leaning that way, I'm cool for now.<P>4) Worst fear: yes, anyone is capable of having an affair. I will do my part to reduce that likelihood by reading and listening and learning and loving.<P>Other worst fear stated more clearly: What if he never DID anything to disrespect me? (my data suggests that she definitely did...but him? Not sure.) In this case, all this angst is for naught. <BR>But you know what? It's not for naught, because I have encountered this forum, I have been able to offer support to other people who are also sad and frightened...and it has brought me to you. This seems so one-sided to me sometimes. You have done so much. Is there anyone I can say a prayer for, for you? <P>I'll carry good thoughts,<BR> <BR>Robyn<BR>(may the force be with you)<BR>

Hi JL:<P>I think it's about time I posted with a smiley-face icon for you. I received a promotion today at work. I was very pleased because the new position requires creativity and accountability. In the hallways, some co-workers hugged and kissed me. What a great feeling!! <P>Your insights were a positive end to a really good day. Incdentally, Tuesdays are the days when I see this other woman at a social activity. I intend to share my good mood with everyone and have a pleasant evening. <BR>Here are some comments on your notes:<P>1) Re: living together vs. marriage: I am beginning to see that I am a little behind some of my peers in thinking about the implications of marriage. I have been a free spirit most of my life and did not consider or wish for marriage in my 20's. Yet I can be greatly sensitive, and viewed living together as a serious committment. What I will say now is this: I know marriage will change us, not once but all throughout our lives. If I saw fit to honour monogamy outside of marriage, perhaps that is a loyalty credit on my part. Chalk it up. <P>2) Yes indeed, I feel that this other person is a combination of lonely, single, manipulative and jealous of my place as the creative nerve centre of our crowd. I agree with your phrasing "she took a run at him". Thank you for affirming that I, like all people, can benefit from some marriage preparation. Thank you for pointing out that there IS a chance that I am not going crazy.<P>3) I also subscribe to the theory that if you need help, you need to ask for it. My BF cannot meet my needs unless a) I ask him for assistance and b) he is willing to give that assistance. In this case, the only assistance I need from him would be, if he is approached by this person again, to state that her romantic advances are unwanted. Unless I see her behaviour leaning that way, I'm cool for now.<P>4) Worst fear: yes, anyone is capable of having an affair. I will do my part to reduce that likelihood by reading and listening and learning and loving.<P>Other worst fear stated more clearly: What if he never DID anything to disrespect me? (my data suggests that she definitely did...but him? Not sure.) In this case, all this angst is for naught. <BR>But you know what? It's not for naught, because I have encountered this forum, I have been able to offer support to other people who are also sad and frightened...and it has brought me to you. This seems so one-sided to me sometimes. You have done so much. Is there anyone I can say a prayer for, for you? <P>I'll carry good thoughts,<BR> <BR>Robyn<BR>(may the force be with you)<BR>

Robyn,<P>Congratulations!! Nothing like a promotion to make ones day is there? <P>I am glad that my response has been helpful to you. I think you are coming to understand yourself and your situation much better.<P>I thought I would add a little food for thought based on some of your comments.<P>You said: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> 1) Re: living together vs. marriage: I am beginning to see that I am a little behind some of my peers in thinking about the implications of marriage. I have been a free spirit most of my life and did not consider or wish for marriage in my 20's. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Personally, I think it is a good thing to wait. I didn't marry until into my 30's so you must be right. I don't understand your feeling of being behind the curve in thinking about the implications of marriage.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Yet I can be greatly sensitive, and viewed living together as a serious committment. What I will say now is this: I know marriage will change us, not once but all throughout our lives. If I saw fit to honour monogamy outside of marriage, perhaps that is a loyalty credit on my part. Chalk it up. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I hope you are right. Unfortunately, the statistics seem to indicate little correlation between living together and a successful marriage. Actually, they are a bit anti correlated, living together leads to slightly more failed marriages than not living together. Of course, there are other factors such as the age of the marriage partners when they get married etc. Nevertheless, the ability to honor your self and your commitments is always a very good thing. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>2) Yes indeed, I feel that this other person is a combination of lonely, single, manipulative and jealous of my place as the creative nerve centre of our crowd. I agree with your phrasing "she took a run at him". Thank you for affirming that I, like all people, can benefit from some marriage preparation. Thank you for pointing out that there<BR>IS a chance that I am not going crazy.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You are definitely not going crazy. It is always a problem to deal with something when having insufficient data. You didn't have enough data, but your had suspicions. They should not be ignored, but they do need to be placed in a proper context. I think you are doing well.<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>4) Worst fear: yes, anyone is capable of having an affair. I will do my part to reduce that likelihood by reading and listening and learning and loving. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Good plan!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Other worst fear stated more clearly: What if he never DID anything to disrespect me? (my data suggests that she definitely did...but him? Not sure.) In this case, all this angst is for naught. But you know what? It's not for naught, because I have encountered this forum, I have been able to offer support to other people who are also sad and frightened...and it has brought me to you. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Now you are getting the hang of it. Learning is always a good thing. It is just possible your fears have lead you to a place where you will learn things that your REALLY needed to learn. Time will tell. But having learned, you may avoid many things and thus appear to have never needed the knowledge. Life is obscure that way.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>This seems so one-sided to me sometimes. You have done so much. Is there anyone I can say a prayer for, for you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It pleases me greatly to have been of help. What I do think is important for people to learn that it is often a greater gift to allow someone else to help, than it is to help someone. Often receiving is harder than giving. As your marriage goes along, there will be times when you want to withdraw and "do it yourself", when those times come, let your H help. You will be doing him a hugh favor.<P>Enjoy your celebration and have a great evening.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Good Morning!<P>Interesting evening. I continued to be in the positive part of my mind. I noticed that I had renewed interest in chatting and sharing with my friends. I saw this woman, and treated her normally. On the way home in the car, my BF, who has begun a physicaly difficult job, thanked me for making an obvious effort to support him at this time (preparing food, helping him start his day, asking about his new co-workers and the new techniques at work, helping him buy correct job equipment). I felt so appreciated.<P>Notes on comments:<P>1) Living together: Despite the warnings accompanying it, living together has become the prevailing trend among my peer group. I did read with keen interest the Harleys' articles on living together before marriage ("renting" vs. "buying"). We have been living together since November, close friendship has been for 7 years, relationship began Sept. 1999. The articles gave me alot to think about. I found the engagement 3 months after moving in to be a positive sign that my BF viewed living together as transitory, not a permanent lifestyle. We'll see.<P>2) Last night was interesting as well - <BR>set of friends "A"- female is my closest female friend. She is separating after 10 difficult married years. <BR>set "B" - (known to us but not part of this particular group). He has betrayed wife of 5 years, they have 1 small child & she is pregnant, D-day was this weekend. W. kicked him out. OW has since broken off with him, after 7 hour conversation on the phone with wife. And wife gave birth this same weekend!<BR>Boy, was I able to listen with compassion!! I could see how all 4 of these people were hurting in different ways. <P>3. Robyn is not crazy. <P>4. Yes, sometimes it is harder to be helped than to help, but very enriching to the person who can help. I am going to stay positive today as well. Wednesdays are key days, as per last string, the Tuesday night group can upset me if I let it.<P>I know that to encourage honesty, one has to provide a safe environment for the partner, who may have news which is difficult to hear. How will I know if I have done everyting i can to create such an environment?<P>Hope your day goes well.<P> Robyn<p>[This message has been edited by Robyn's Clues (edited April 04, 2001).]