I can not think straight until I get all the details of what went on. So far I am getting one word answers, partial information, smokescreens, so I am finding things out for myself and it really does help me feel better. I am really hung up on the need to know what all she has said and done because there is a VERY dense smoke screen around her. There is a lot of protection around her and it is making me sick. The care and protection belongs to ME and if I do not ever get that, I do not think I can survive this. My heart is shattered and I need my H to help me heal it and I will do the same for him. She has entered a space where no other woman should ever go, and she is walking around doing whatever she chooses. I have to know what I am dealing with, complete with details.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by replaced:<BR><B>I can not think straight until I get all the details of what went on. So far I am getting one word answers, partial information, smokescreens, so I am finding things out for myself and it really does help me feel better. I am really hung up on the need to know what all she has said and done because there is a VERY dense smoke screen around her. There is a lot of protection around her and it is making me sick. The care and protection belongs to ME and if I do not ever get that, I do not think I can survive this. My heart is shattered and I need my H to help me heal it and I will do the same for him. She has entered a space where no other woman should ever go, and she is walking around doing whatever she chooses. I have to know what I am dealing with, complete with details.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Details, yes, the very heart of the affair. I too needed them, I got them. Did they help? Yes and No. Yes because they allowed me to truly see what kind of a man I was married to, No because they hurt. Would I have chosen to find out less? ABSOLUTELY NOT! As far as I am concerned the damage was already done, what more hurt could I put upon myself? More importantly, as I said I saw him to be a man I did not know. <P>This is the only way I knew I could heal. I too got smokescreens, I call it bull***. He told me only what he wanted me to hear. He tried to protect himself and her both at the same time. Honestly, I think he was trying to keep both relationships going again at the same time. Kind of backfired on him though. <P>We are separated, but still see each other. She wants nothing to do with him so I guess he decided he would stay and try to work it out with me. Mighty good of him wouldn't you say? Actually, I am having a hard time this evening, I wonder if the man has a conscience. I don't think he does. He does not seem to understand how his actions affect the people around him. <P>He is remorseful about the Affair. But is this the only and last one? Beats the **** out of me. Honestly, I am very insecure right now, I gave everything I had and he did this. What do I have to look for in the future? I want a man who will protect, honor, love and cherish me. Is that asking too much?<P>As far as her being protected, bingo. Understand that. My husband was concerned I may have said something to someone she works with who has a big mouth. Oh, poor baby, gosh I would hate to think anyone would think badly of her. Afterall, he was married, she was not, isn't that the perfect recipe for a romance?<P>Well, I hope you get answers to your questions, I do caution you on one point. Questions about the "sex" part of it are really not ones to ask. If you think about it logically, what difference does that make? You cannot compete with "the new and exciting signigicant other" no matter what you did. Besides that you don't want to. Keep that for yourself. I did, and I assure you if I had delved into that issue, I would never be able to be intimate with my husband EVER.<P>Food for thought, do what you need to.<BR>God bless you

I think K9's comments are very insightful. I fully understand your need to see the complete picture here. However, from what you have shared, I think you have plenty of data to substantiate a betrayal of some level already. If this person is manupulative and charismatic, then naturally she will have a smokescreen of folks around her, first because she has the manipulation skills to attract people, and secondly because her constructed persona needs people to validate her. Do not compare yourself to such a person. They will snake their way through life, and may appear to get the better of other people all the time. But replaced, trust in "what goes around comes around". Take care of your marriage and somewhere down the road, this person will get her just desserts. As far as her being your employee, there are other mechanisms for discontinuing her employment, other than firing. You may choose to "restructure" your company, rendering her job position invalid. As long as you do not re-fill the position under the same title, there is little she can do (confirm with a lawyer, as I am not one). This will involve paying out a severance package, but it could be worth every penny. People like this often live for the praise and attention of others. They need to be told they are great, and they firmly believe it. It is very important to find out, if possible, what your H's position is on her employment. It is very important for you to see yourself as complete and whole and worthy, because you are! Never define yourself by what she appears to be. Did you ever think that, despite her "people skills", she may be single for a reason? Perhaps she is not so desirable after all. Continue to be calm and factual with your H if you can. Remember that many people here have much support to offer. God bless you, and good luck.<P>Robyn

Details...hmmm. That's tough. For me, I had to know, I couldn't deal with my "over active imagination". As far as the emotions go....I HAD to know everything, and do. Sex? Tread lightly like K9 said, get enough to satisy curiousity but know that what they had can't and won't be duplicated or made to go away. All you can do is build on what you already had and make it better than before, create your own new memories and expriences. While my W's affair was short and had little sex, finding out they were "short trysts" in a car did make it easier than say if they had gotten a motel room or went back to his house. Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but it does say alot, to me anyway. Sex wasn't the point of the A, through his persistance, she succommed. <P>D-Day was 13 days ago, (worst 13 days of my life thus far) and we have come a LONG way since (suprisingly). After hours of talking, crying, holding, we've layed an excellent foundation for a new start.<P>Good luck.<BR>scarlet pumpernickle

Details,I had to know.<BR>I told my H it was like I had been thrown into a cactus and he had to pull the needles out one at a time, and in time fewer come to the surface.<BR>Scarlet, glad you are doing so well, I had a good day but still on the scary rollercoaster, although it is slowing down I think. I havent even lost all of my dignity.<BR>I am trying not to LB but I am a miserable failure, I must confess I smile on the outside but dream of sticking sharp pencils in his ears <BR>I was able to eat today, day 17, must be getting better!<P>------------------<BR>L.

Scarlet Pumpernickel:<P>My H's affair was always held in HER vehicle after work. They never got a room because he told me he was afraid it would go further than what he wanted it to. But...it doesn't change anything. They were together...they were intimate...they touched...etc. Get the picture...It hurts to see the two of them in my mind. It's been four weeks since my husband confessed to the affair. I have asked for all the details...how she kissed...etc.. Why do I care... We can't beat ourselves up. So...tell yourself you're a great guy and move forward. It's hard sometimes. We've done alot of reading together. Dr. Harley's books are great. Surviving an Affair...READ IT TOGETHER. My husband and I are trying to put our marriage togehter. The W he was involved with was married also with kids. Imagine that..instead of going home right after work to her kids she went with my husband in her vehicle....to have PASSION!!!<BR>It still makes me sick to see it in my mind. ANYONE OUT THERE......does it get better in a few months....six months... a year. Do you ever forget the images in your mind???? My husband and her still work at the same place. But he has emailed her and told her no more communication. It's over.....WHAT DO I LOOK FOR NOW TO KNOW FOR SURE IT IS OVER????? He lied really good for a year...maybe he'll do it again!!

Replaced:\<P>You are absolutely normal. I too had to know all the details. I wanted to know who initiated what. Who got<BR>the affair going. Who called who. I had a million questions. My husband answered every single one and sometimes he would let me know what he was about to say would really hurt me....and it did. But he told me the truth. Ask all the questions you want...it's part of the healing process. It's been four weeks...March 6th was my<BR>Day of Truth.... We've been married for 17 years and it<BR>shocked me to pieces... It felt like someone reached in and ripped my heart out. I've cried...I've lost weight... I've been walking around not myself. But make sure you take care of yourself...give yourself time to do what you enjoy. I have found walking everyday is helping me cope. I still cry.....I still hurt...and I STILL ASK Questions about the affair. I even think they're really silly questions sometimes but they're important to me. I know you are hurting and you are being normal. I would wake up in the middle of the night and just CRY....and ask him how could you have done this to ME!!!!! I hate the other woman. Ieven called her husband to tell him about the affair...because she didn't. He was devastated but he needed to know. Hang in there.....and read books.<BR>Surviving an Affair by Dr. Harley and His Needs Her Needs...read them TOGETHER if you can save your marriage. I am trying to move forward but I really don't know if it will ever be the same....... Maybe you just start over...and learn who you each are???? I have to learn <BR>how to trust him again....to forgive but not forget. <P>Good Luck and hang in there....<P>Shocker17

I know what you mean. I found out about 4 weeks ago that my husband was having an affair. I caught him and then he admitted it. He told me he broke it off and then I found out he hadn't. Now, supposedly he has broken it off again. Who knows. Guess I will wait for the next phone bill. Anyway, I want to know detail and he just gets frustrated and won't say much. I know he met her from a friend at a bar when I was out of town. I know she is 28 (we are 30). He told our therapist that she would never fit into his life, friends, etc. I want to know who she is, what she does, what she looks like, what he told her, etc. Should I harp on this? Maybe in therapy??????

. <p>[This message has been edited by Rodger (edited May 01, 2001).]