My relationship has a long history. What I'm dealing with right now is consuming my every thought.<P>Last weekend, my boyfriend came home, showered quickly, got right into bed while I was working on some things from the office. He had himself covered up and wondered when I would be coming to bed. I relented and went to bed. We almost always (99.9%) keep the light on during love making, but he asked me to turn it off. I did, not really thinking anything too much about his request. During, I got such an ill feeling I pulled back from him and turned on the light. He had a mark, a hickey on his chest. My guy's skin is somewhat sensitive, but I know his body and can tell the difference between buises and such.<P>I calmly asked what is was and he denied there was a mark at all -- as if I was hallucinating it was there. Then I got really upset and he started getting angry at me for accusing him. I asked to see his cellular to check for numbers and he wouldn't let me see it. He got so angry, he smashed it on the pavement outside. I'd say that was an extreme measure to protect his crime. I cried violently the rest of the night. <P>The next afternoon, I was furious and went to his office (restaurant industry) to look through his things. He followed me and when I reached for a particular drawer he blocked me. I managed to leverage him out of the way and underneath papers were condoms. The kind we use. He grabbed them away from me. I was paralized.<P>The next day I went to the office before he got there, and snooped throught the same drawer. I don't know how many he grabbed away from me, but there were 3 left. I suspected he put them back in the drawer. I took them.<BR>Later that day I asked him he what he did with the condoms he took and how many there were. He said he probably grabbed 3 and threw them in the trash. I asked him to show me. He did and the condoms I took matched the ones he threw away.<P>Here is his explanation of why he had the condoms at the restaurant. A few months ago, friends of his asked if he would provide a place for a stipper to perform after hours. His friends bought things for enticement and they asked him to buy the condoms. He put the leftovers in the drawer. To my knowledge condoms are a party favor at bachlorette parties but not viceversa. He said the guys thought the stripper might be willing to do extra??? Does this happen a strip parties? He said there were only about 5 or 6 guys...<P>I just can't buy this story. I'm so confused. I want to believe him, but the hickey, the turning off of the light, not letting me see his cellular, and his denial lead me to believe one thing. He CHEATED!!!<BR>He refuses to admit to anything. <BR>In our conversation over the next couple of days, he admits that he does tell a lot of white lies -- for no reason. <P>I told him in order for me to even think about going any further he needed to do three things:<BR>1) Get tested for STDs and Aids<BR>2) Make an appointment with a counselor to get help with lying. <BR>3) Must admit the truth to me about the hickey and condoms.<BR>If he doesn't do these things (which I think are extremely reasonable) then he loses me.<P>I gave him 2 weeks. During this time, I told him I wanted NO contact of any kind. I will call him at the end of the 2 weeks to see if he did the 3 things I asked.<P>I wouldn't have done this much, accept for the fact that I am totally in love with the man. He is my best friend. I admire him, am proud of him. He cares for me and my son. There is nothing he wouldn't do for us (I guess I'll see for sure in a couple of weeks). There isn't anything in our relationship right now that I would change.<P>I am numb and desperately searching for answeres. <BR>What could I have possibly not been able to do for him? What emotional needs did I not fulfill for him?<BR>I am at a complete loss.<P>Please help. I'm really struggling with this and have only confided in a friend who has been through a similar sitation. But I know she can't be there for me every second and I don't want to stress our relationship with this.<P>

btrayd,<BR>I am so sorry for what you're going through...please know that I understand how you must feel.<BR>You have come to the right place for support and understanding - the people here are wonderful and caring...keep posting, you will find a wealth of information and advice.<BR>I gather from your post that you have done some reading on the Harley principals...if you haven't yet I would recommend reading some of the posts and articles on <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A / Plan B</A>, I really believe they could be of help to you.<BR>Take care of yourself and your son...we will all be here for you.<BR>SD

Dear Btrayd<P>I am so sorry. One particular thing caught my eye in your post. My H did the same thing with his cell phone. He got so angry one night (had a fight) and smashed it out on the street. That was last summer.<P>My H did not confess to this A until a week and a half ago. I feel so betrayed. I told him the ONLY way I would try and get past this terrible nightmare is if he agreed to counseling... he did. I also made an appt to have myself checked out for STD's and HIV... very smart to make that one of your stipulations.<P>I also have been reading Surviving an Affair... it has been vert helpful. <P>I hope that when the two weeks are up you have gotten what you asked for (from him). I will keep you in my thoughts.

Thanks for your sentiments. I am reading anything I can get my hands on to help me stay sane. I made myself an appointment to get tested as well. I'm so scared. Because I can't sleep or eat, my body is really taking a toll, but now I'm scared, not for sure if it could be that or something more serious.<BR>I also made a counseling appointment for myself. I feel like I'm in an a terrible dream, literally participating in a sick play.<BR>I am also investigating whether to purchase a video camera to try and catch the activity. I've checked the phone #s I thought it could possibly be on the suggestions I read from other posted replies. So far nothing has come up. I found two addressed and I'm going to visit those locations and monitor them at times, but I have a job and a child to take care of. <P>What else can I do? I feel like I have to catch him in order to put make this real and know that I based my decision to leave on the absolute truth.

btrayed - cell phone co. have detailed billing . If it is in his name only , you will have to do some snooping. Sometimes you can get the bill son line. If you H. has never done this, you can put in your own password and get it on line. If your H will not allow you to see the billing, something is going on. We have 2 C phones, so I hasked my H to put my name on the billing statement. Then I was able to get detailed billing from a year ago. The OW cell phone number was on it as well as many calls to her home. dax

His cellular was through his friend's company. Since he broke it the other night, he had to get a new phone and he did put it under his name. The old bills went to the company, I can only see if he will put my name on his account now, but he would see no reason to do this. I'll check to see if somehow I could see the bills online.<P>He is still maintaining his innocence. I'm am praying that the truth will be made clear somehow. I would love to believe what he's saying, but I can't.

Dear Feelingalone,<P>How have you stayed with your H this long? Did you know that he cheated? Did you have substantial proof? I tremble with grief, terrible images running through my mind at all hours of the day...I don't understand this kind behavior -- the lying, unfaithfulness, secrecy -- these actions are not in my being. Not for the kind of lifestlye I want to have.<P>I've read on this website why someone in the relationship might go to someone else. I've specifically asked what he needs, what I haven't been giving him. He says he's totally satisfied, there's nothing going on, and wants to keep going ahead with our future plans.<P>How are you planning to stay with your H when the bond of trust has been broken? Even if you go through counceling, in the back of your mind, you must have a feeling it could happen again. As the old addage goes...once a cheater...

Dear Btrayd<P>Yes, I have stayed with my H. I found a note in his wallet from OW and he said it was an old note he found in his desk When he came across it some people walked in his office, he panicked and shoved the note in his wallet. He said the note was from last year. This whole A that he had comsumes my every thought too. I keep asking myself how can I ever forgive/forget. My only answer to myself is to try and build up the trust through counseling. In all honesty if he had not agreed to counseling I do not think I could ever forgive. Now forgetting is another thing... I will NEVER forget what he did. I just have to keep my faith and try to learn to trust him again. It can be done if we BOTH try.<P>I too, have asked my H what his needs are. He tells me he does not have any?! So we will find out hopefully thru counseling what EXACTLY his needs are. <P>You asked if I am planning to stay with my H? Yes, I am willing to work through it. We have 10 yrs together and a little (2 yr) girl. I can not walk away knowing I did not try ... that would be on my mind always if I did not give it a chance to survive. <P>I really hope that things work out for you. Have there been problems recently (besides the things you found out) that would lead you to believe that he has, in fact, cheated. I can tell you there were things in our marriage that I look back on and knowing what I know now, explains a lot. Keep your faith ... maybe suggest counseling ... I will keep you in my thoughts.

Yes, two years ago I separated from him. I found a couple shirts drenched in cologne and they had makeup and lipstick stains. I just completely got away from him for 8 months.<P>I don't even remember how we got back together. We started out as friends and it turned into love again. I decided to put what had happened behind us in order to concentrate on moving forward, otherwise it wasn't going to work. He admitted later at that time, he wasn't sure he wanted me for the rest of his life. It doesn't make what he did right, but at least he admitted his committment problem. I accepted it, he apologized and we moved on. <BR>I wanted a relationship based on trust, so I decided to trust him. I haven't and wouldn't have suspected him this time either had I not seen the hickey and pursued to look for other evidence. I'm still working on trying to get details on his cellular other than demanding he hand it over.<BR>I've read your story thru other posting on this site. I understand you want to give your relationship every chance at survival. And since your H is complying and going thru counceling, it's definately worth a shot.<P>I did suggest counceling, he said he would go, I'm waiting to see if he comes thru on his word. He has to set up the appointment for himself, I've already made one for myself. He tells me I already satisfy all he needs, he doesn't need anyone or anything else, so what is his motive for cheating??? Our sex life is even healthy. I'm totally dumbfounded what else he could possible want/need from another woman. The unknown is driving me crazy! I asked about his needs for sex, compatibility, appreciation...I can only think that maybe he likes the secrecy, the challenge of not getting caught. Maybe when he gets caught he simmer down a bit, then starts up again. I just don't know. This is agonizing.<P>Were you saying that your H says he needs nothing from you? Or is he in withdrawal mode from the OM? Or does he say you can't satisfy his needs?<BR>Did getting tested help you feel better, assuming the results were negative...

Hi<P><BR>When I asked my H what his needs are he never really answered me?! I am not sure as to why he fails to answer, except maybe he doesn't know how to answer the question. I have explained to him what Dr Harley lists as a mans needs and he seemed interested, but never said what HIS were. Hopefully that will come out in counseling. <P>I am not too sure what to say about your boyfriend. There are men who do have one night stands repeatedly (not that I am saying your B is one of them) why they do this, I have no idea. I think in Dr Harley's book SAA he talks about men who do this. <P>I say your best bet is to get into counseling, which you say you both are. Try and go together. If he complies, hopefully you can work thru it all. <P><BR>You asked if getting tested has helped me feel better. Well the tests all came back neg. That is really a very good thing... I dreaded telling H (was telling me that she DID not have anything) and when I did tell him his reaction pissed me off... said something like "good" in a told you so way. That is ok... I just needed to know and I am happy with the results. <P>Please try to stay strong. I know how this thing can consume your life. I am currently a stay at home mom and the whole thing has really scared me. Not only have I had to worry and wonder about what to do, I have my little girl to think of too. <P>Let me know how things are going for you in the upcoming weeks. I am so sorry you have to deal with this.

Dear Betrayd~<P>Just wondering how things are going for you?? I really hope they have started to look up. I will continue to keep you in my prayers.

So far he hasn't done any of the things I asked him to do. No appointments have been made. He says that I keep accusing him and that makes him upset. I guess I just want him to admit it. He says he doesn't want to argue and that everything is going to be okay if I will just change my attitude. <P>How can I do that when I know something happened. He wants to sweep this under the rug and hope it stays there. I can't do that. He someone who doesn't deal with problems very well. He doesn't know how to deal with them. He doesn't tell anyone his problems including close family and friends. That's why he needs to go to counceling. He says I can call him at anytime, but when I do, he get mad and says I'm checking up on him.<P>If I was the accused and I was truly in love, I would understand that any behavior would be acceptable by the person that was hurt and would offer them any kind of support they needed. There is no time for me to be upset at them, why would I? They obviously feel I have done something wrong.<P>His behavior seems to keep implementing what I already know. My counceling session fell through. I'm also in the middle of a new job transition, so I won't have insurance for quite some time.<P>HOW am I doing? I'm still sick, sad, and without the truth, stuggling to decide what comes next. Taking one day at a time. I've tried everything I can do on my own to investigate more including reverse numbers, asking questions, trying to get the cellular bill -- nothing has turned up. The evidence I have is more than what others have ever had, yet I'm still wanting to catch him -- or give up and move on.<P>I don't entirely agree that every affair begins with failure to meet an important emotional need. I think some people just like the thrill of trying not to get caught. Maybe they can't resist a sexual offer and figure why not? If no one finds out, what a deal. The secrecy, the mystery -- a steamy romance, no attachments. The OW doesn't want to get caught either. Her reputation is at stake. <P>I still don't understand the goal of an affair. If my mate wasn't "the one" I would get out of the relationship. If they weren't meeting my needs why stay? It may hurt the other person to say, this relationship is not everything I want, but at least you're giving them the honesty and respect they deserve. <BR>AND I don't understand the desire to be with someone who is already in a relationship. I know there are a lot of people out there who think it's "fun" to play around. I think people who do this are sick in the head. They have no respect for themselves or others. <P>I'm babbling. I'm trying to make sense of something that makes no sense. I know I have embarked on a very long journey of healing. I know God is carrying me. I hope I will be able to recover, regardless of whether I stay with this man or not. I hope to recover and not bring with me insecurities of distrust and betrayal.<P>Thank you Feelingalone, for checking in on me and your prayers. I hope your recovery and commitment to your marriage works out according to God's ultimate plan.

Dear Btrayd~<P>First of all I am so very sorry to hear of the latest. I can understand and relate to your pain, although that does not help your situation any. <P>My H is not one to deal with problmes either. He is a very private person and to my amazment agreed to go to counseling... of course that is not the only answer to our problem, but hopefully a beginging. In the 10 yrs we have been together sweeping it under the rug has been his style ... so I can really relate to that. <P>So let me understand this ... is he not agreeing to counseling with you?? You said your session fell through, will you be attempting to go again?? I hope that this at least can be a start for you. <P>I know that it is hard to eat/sleep. I have days where I am lucky if I can force down dinner, let alone, breakfast or lunch. Just try and take care of yourself the best you can ... taking it one day at a time is good ... sometimes I find myself having to take it one hour at a time. <P>I also agree with you on the reasons for affairs. I felt like I was meeting everyone of my H's needs (although some things did come out in counseling that I was not aware of) and I really felt if I was not, at least I kept asking what exactly I was NOT doing. There was never an answer. So I agree with the thrill of it all. My H also says that he was physically attracted to her ... well do you really think that we will never see or meet someone who is NOT attractive to the eye. That to me is a weak reason. I really feel in his instance she was attractive, and giving my H attention ... boy what an esteem booster! Not to mention my H confessed to me that he has low self esteem. <P>Sounds like you are remaining strong ... keep your faith. Please try and get yourself some help. You need to take care of YOU. I know for me, I feel like I can not function without my H ... but I know I can and maybe I would be a better person? Who is to know. Keep on praying and please stay in touch.

Feelingalone,<P>Sounds like we have very similar parallels in our situations. He said he would go to counceling, but now with switching jobs I will have to figure out how much I can afford and then invite him.<BR>Right now he says what he's worried about is how much we fight. Trust me when I say, we don't fight very much at all. I've been in relationships where lots of fighting went on. <BR>I think I'm hearing him say, if we could stop arguing everything would be perfect? I need to ask him this. Is this the reason he looking elsewhere?<P>Still trying to understand so let me type this out. I think his affair occured during the day because he was home everynight and not ever past 11:30pm on the weekends. If the affair occured because he thinks we fight too much, what is being accomplished in the couple hours he may get to spend with her? Therego I see this as a fling, just because it's available.<P>AHHHH! It's frustrating. I've been trying to check his cellular and keep looking up revese numbers every chance I get. Numbers that I suspect the most turn up 'no results'.<P>Does you H blow up at you when you bring up the situation? Do he say he gets tired of talking about it all the time? Maybe a counceling session where that's the only time we talk about it would be good. Has anything really fantastic come out of your counceling? Does he still long for this OW?How do you control your feelings to keep talking about this? He admitted it to you after a year, he made the choice to continue with you, is he happy?

Dear Btrayd<P>Yes it does seem we have very similar paralles in our situations. I really hope you can work something out with counseling. Just to let you know I was informed some marriage counselors pro-rate the fee if you do not have any insurance coverage. <P>I really have to say before all of this ... uumm ... maybe about 3 yrs ago, my H and I very seldom fought as well. Of course we had our usual arguments, but then it was over. So we we either getting along real well or in an argument, kwim?? I don't know why on earth people have affairs. I think it is a number of things (in my opinion). I am not even sure as to WHY my H did what he did. When questioned by myself and the Dr his answer was the same ... "I was attracted to her." I still can not buy this answer. For us I believe it was a number of things and he thought with us not getting along (we had also lost our friendship, due to a new baby and adjusting to me staying home... kind of lost it in the shuffle) I suppose he justified that in his head. Maybe I will never know WHY he had the affair ... all I am interested in doing is finding out how we can prevent another and be best friends/lovers again. Maybe that is something you should focus on ... how to prevent another A. It has been put to me this way .. All relationships die, either in divorce or death. So instead of focusing on how to make it last our focus should be on making it good ... quality, not quantity ... make sense??<P>I know my H's A occured during the day. I think that was the only time he could "hide" it. So whenever I suspected something he would come back with "when do I have time for an A ... I am always at work and when I am not at work I am here". AAHHAAA ... should have been my first clue he was meeting her during his lunch (has S in his truck, her SUV, nice huh??)<P>I hear your fustration!! I still think about things that have been said and done that seemed like the truth and it was all a lie. I would keep checking his cell when you can. Trust me when I say this ... if he is in fact having an affair, eventually he WILL get caught. I know this is not exactly what you want to hear, but I was told this a thousand times and I eventually did catch him!<P>Ok you asked me several ??'S. Yes my H blows up whenever I mention his A. Tells me that he is trying to forget it and I keep bringing it up... not too sure what to say about this. I have tried to not ask so many questions, but I have a confession, as where you don't ... not sure how that differs as far as questioning, except I tend to ask for more details, when really I do not want to know. I don't think anything fantastic has come out of our counseling, yet. Our first session was pretty much talking about the A and how we both can overcome it ... I hope that the next one gives a few more answers. I can say it was very threuputic to talk about the whole thing with someone who was trained to handle marital/relationship problems. I am not sure if he still longs for OW .. i do know he has told me he thinks about her. But like the Dr said ... it is not so much what he feels and thinks as it does if he plans to act on those thoughts and feelings ... I know I already said this, but we can not control someones thoughts and feelings. I have a hard time controlling what I say. That is something I battle EVERYDAY. But I know in order for us to move forward there are things that I have to either journal or deal with in my head (and not out my mouth). This for me is VERY hard. Since Wed I agreed not to call H at work and rehash the whole thing and talk about how I feel. I have not ONCE called him at work with any of that and I see a difference in how we get along. We have a long road ahead of us ... I just keep reminding myself to take baby steps. I really feel he admitted it to me because I found the note ... i don't think he would have otherwise. I am not sure if he is happy ... i don't think either of us are right now, but I hope that comes back in time ... time, I have to keep reminding myself how important that is... if only it were easy. Really sucks that we have to endure so much pain in order to be happy again, does not seem fair does it?? Be well and please stay in touch.

Btrayd ... just wondering how you are doing?? It's been a while since you posted ... my thoughts are still with you. Post when you can ....

Not doing well. I KNOW he cheated. I turned off my phone, left my answering machine on. I don't see the point in talking to him when nothing gets solved, he changes the subject. The two weeks are up and hasn't done one thing I asked him to do.<BR>There's nothing more I can do. It's his respondibility to fix it. He isn't taking steps to do that so I have no choice but to try and heal. I'm not going to sit around and wait for him.<BR>He came over this morning to see if I was alright, after three days of no contact. All he can say is "I'm sorry for my behavior and for being angry at you". Like this is going to make everything better. He says he will put me first and will go to a counselor if I want.<BR>I'm not making the appointment, I'm not the one who messed up the relationship. I don't even care anymore about trying to find help for myself. There's nothing anyone can say or suggest that's going to make me feel better about what happened. I've learned that this happens in 80% of relationships.<BR>Why am I fighting to keep this relationship? I've looked at what my needs are in a relationship and they're not being met. The most important include trust, honesty, responsibility, mutual respect...he doesn't have these so why should I bother.<P>He tries to act concerned, asking me what he can help with around the house, he never asked that before. He talked about going to look at house locations together. How can I think about WHERE I want to live with him when I can't even say I WANT to live with him.<P>I'm sooo sick. It's been hard getting through the day. I can hardly concentrate on work. I'm not someone who gives up easily, but I've come to a dead end. I have done eveything in my power to make this relationship work. SO much so, I need to stop controlling and give it to God.<P>The days are sooo long though. The seconds tick by. For once in my life, time is passing slowly.

Dear Btrayd~<P>I am so sorry. It is tough when you feel like (or have done) the majority of work in the relationship. Overcoming infidelity is NOT easy, though I know it can be done. I know that you do not trust him, that is something he broke. Getting that back is what I am struggling with myself, but I am being told with time the trust does come back. I really hope that you can at least get some help for you. You need to take care of yourself. Maybe if you start counseling he will agree to go with you for a few sessions, that is if you want him too. All I can say is for me, counseling has already been a help. I feel I have to do this in order for me to move on in a healthy way. I want to be able to say that, if it does not work out, we at least gave it our best shot. Have you read the book SAA by Dr Harley?? I really reccomend you read it, it may give you insight and help you deal with this all so much better.<P>Please stay in touch. I will continue to keep you in my prayers. Be well.

Dear Btrayd~ <P>It is the pain in the *ss checking in on you ... <P>It is amazing how things can go from good to rotten in a matter of minutes. I am still riding this rollercoaster, hoping my ride is coming to an end soon (although I know it won't). We are not going to counseling this week. H has to work and won't be able to get off in time... I actually look forward to going, it lifts the weight that I carry around all week. That feels good, even if it is only for an afternoon.<P>I hope another door has opened for you. I pray that you will find peace and time seems to not move so slowly. I hope you have an outlet to release your anger and fustration. It helps to take care of oneself, even though it seems to be the toughest thing to do. Find one thing that motivates you, even slightly and go with it. Keep posting here, people here care ... be well.

Dear Feelingalone,<P>I had started to type yesterday...but was caught up in job duties. You're not a pain at all, I look forward to your replies.<P>I spent the past 3 days reading. I bought a book called After the Affair, the first half was okay, but the rest didn't seem to speak to me. I read somewhere on this site, about one named Private Lies, I'm going to go back and get it. What I want to read about is why this happens and how to deal with it, not necessarily fix the relationship. It's more of a personal struggle/journey. <BR>Although I think counseling will help, he said he would go, I can't control his actions, I can't check on him all the time. Even though I have continued to check his calls, nothing turns up. He could have been calling from another phone. Who knows. I'm tired of wasting my time and energy. <P>I went through several emotions over the weekend. I started keeping a journal. It helps in those moments when there is no one to talk to. I would read, then write, read, write, etc. I tried to spend sometime with him, talking calmly about it, but he just wouldn't get involved. He says he's tired of talking about it, but would go to a councelor if it would help me. <BR>Here's what I know to be true:<BR>He doesn't want to admit it because he knows it will tear my apart (which it already is), thus the silence and<BR>He doesn't want to implicate himself, admit his mistakes, he's not strong enough to do this<P>I'm mad because he won't admit what I already know, he won't let me have the piece that I need to recover/heal and mad that he can't seem to show emotion for me, for my pain.<P>Why did your H admit it after a year? If he had held it all that time, why did he finally come clean? He could have never admitted it.<P>We spent some time together yesterday, talking normally, not about the situation. Which we both have been needing because we're best friends and have missed the companionship.<BR>The problem is right now, the waters of my soul are calm, but tomorrow they could be raging again. Like you say, the rollarcoaster. I told him about not having emotions about how I'm feeling and he has done better. He was always one that if I had a problem I could go to and say, "this isn't right, I'm not okay with what's going on, could you do this...or I need this..." and he would do it. He would work on it and make things better.<P>I know it isn't practical to say "never", but I would not ever rationalize my lust for someone at the expensive of my best friend/lover/husband. The passion felt at the time isn't worth the aftermath, the pain and devestation and harm for the other person. It truly begins with respect for yourself and the other person. If you don't have the HIGHEST regards for the person you're with, then get out, because you're only setting yourself up for the same situation. <P>I don't mean to preach to you personally, I just wish more people would get some self control. It really burns me up. The problems in society are all about not having self control, it's about greed, the "what's in it for me" attitude, instead of "how can I do for you, how can I help you".<P>I'm sorry for your rollarcoaster ride. How did your session go without him?