I've been on the rollercoaster for five months now. I've realized that my W's EA was not that, there was no intercourse, only some touching, a kiss and a deep friendship. I'm going to forgive it all. I can't harbor it any more and to move on I must, I am going to begin with our friendship and start over from their. I must do this. I sobbed uncontrollably all day letting go of the fear, the hurt, the pain. I have accepted my part in it and let her know I am here to help us both....please say a prayer of strength for me

Wow, I have been on 'the rollercoaster' for two weeks, and I want to get off now! Did your wife tell you everything, or did you have to find out on your own? My husband can't come clean with me, I think he is ashamed. It doesn't matter what has happened, he wants to be married to me. Forgiveness is a big deal, be proud of yourself. I know that what happened between us was a 50/50 problem. When I apologized for my lack as his wife, it touched him so much. I am happy with myself for being in control of my emotions for once in my life. Have you seen the movie 'The Story of Us'? Very well written.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tere38:<BR><B>Wow, I have been on 'the rollercoaster' for two weeks, and I want to get off now! <P>Hang in there, It's going to get worse. You will be up and thinking yopu've licked it and then something will trigger and it's like you found out two minutes before. It does get better I promise!!<P>Did your wife tell you everything, or did you have to find out on your own?<P>I found out, she had denied it saying that they were "just friends"....."just flirting". I found some emails that were at best disturbing, when confronted with them, she danced all around the truth, then I found a lengthy chat to one of her friends that detailed some explicit activities in the office. I confronted her then and what could she do know?? she had to confess and told me more than what I had found. Truth be knkown I woulod have rather not had the details. Too many triggers there.<P> My husband can't come clean with me, I think he is ashamed. It doesn't matter what has happened, he wants to be married to me. <P>This is a great thing as long as you want him too, and you shouild, EA's are a symptom of something greater, usually a breakdown in the marriage, not always........He is ashamed, He doesn't know probably how to tell you, My wife is very ashamed about what she did and regretful for what she has done to us, this is powerful and hurts a great deal for my W, remember if we are going to stick around we need to still be compassionate toward our spouse. You will be hurt and angry and that is good and normal, your H is hurting too try not to be too vindictive, what you really want is your marriage, your husband and your life back to normal remember that. Did he come cl;ean about having an A or not, Is it details you want?? personally I wish I had never found out details, if you think the pain of knowing an EA has happened try hearing the specifics.......<P><BR> Forgiveness is a big deal, be proud of yourself. I know that what happened between us was a 50/50 problem. <P>It is a big deal, I sobbed uncontrollably before I had the strength to forgive, remember that you forgive for yourself, not for your H, right now you do not owe him anything, and you won't be able to forgive for a long time, and the nice part is you don't have to tell your H if you do forgive him, since it is somthing you do for yourself you can keep it inside and it will still free you from the pain an anger to a great degree, you won't feel that the situation is controlling you. I also bear a large part of the circumstances leading up to my W's EA, I was not a nice man, (see the post "my wife's indescretion") I have been in counselling for the last four months and we are in marriage coounselling...THIS you must do to move on at least see some one yourself. AND do not take ANY responsibility for HIS actions.....he owns that.<BR> When I apologized for my lack as his wife, it touched him so much. I am happy with myself for being in control of my emotions for once in my life. Have you seen the movie 'The Story of Us'? Very well written.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I have not seen the movie maybe I'll check it out<P>Let me know what yopu think of my reply.....<P>

You know I really thought I had read that other post, but I can't seem to locate it now. I will keep looking. The denial in my husband is wearing me down, he thinks I'm the cutest thing for suspecting him. I know what I know, and I found out while he was out of town. There is this block between us, which doesn't seem to bother us in the bedroom, but it is there just the same. He has a secret and he isn't going to tell me. Could he live with this forever and never tell me? That is just so sad. It makes me a bit angry, because I constantly doubt my own sanity. I keep reading about the average length of an affair, and that gives me strength to forge ahead. The hardest part for me is, although I don't know exactly who she is I know she works with him so it is someone he sees every day.<P>He still has the 'secret' number on his cell phone, which he tells me he can't remember who it is or why it is the only phone number listed as 'secret'. He also has one number on his palm pilot with the listing as an initial. All the other numbers in his directory are spelled out. There are a few other little things that make me paranoid, but the two above are what set off my alarms. Not alot to go by is there? He is very smart, he would never use a credit card for an indescretion, always cash. He has a cell phone and a beeper and he works odd hours (he is a doctor).

Sorry, that I didn't see that is was not "out in the open", Here's how I found out. You have to first come to terms with wether you really want to know.....That being said. Check everything, be careful, if he suspects you are looking he will go into super stealth mode. Check phone bills, If you are on his cell account and can do it ensure that the bill has detailed billing. Check the regular phone bill. Go through every pocket of every piece of clothing he owns and check his car for notes, often they pass little notes back and forth. If he has a day planner or something like that get a look at it. Search your computer for emails, this is how I found out. If there is something there they will be in almost constant contact. You should look in the temporary internet files folder that is in the windows folder. There are usually half a dozen or so other folders within the Temp. internet folder so make sure you use the file tree on the left to open them. You are looking for any file that has "View", often internet email uses something like this. You can go to find in the start menu and type in view/hotmail/yahoo/email/ or any number of different internet mail names and things will come up, if you maximize the find window you will get dates and times.<BR>Check his car. Here are som indicators:<P>Your spouse seems bored. Bored with you, with job, with kids, with hobbies, with life in general.<P>Your spouse seems to want danger or thrills in his/her life.<P>There is considerably less intimacy in your relationship. Your sex life is practically non-existent.<P>Your spouse has a low self-esteem.<P>You notice your spouse has a sense of confusion about self.<P>You spouse has become lazy, especially around the house.<P>You can't get your spouse to communicate with you.<P>Your spouse gets very defensive if you mention infidelity or affairs.<P>Spouse is suddenly more attentive than usual. <P>Mate is working longer hours at work.<P>Your spouse is dressing nicer, looking nicer.<P>You notice charges on credit card statement that don't make sense.<P>Your spouse is indifferent to family events like birthdays and holidays.<P>You find your partner has been lying to you about a variety of things.<P>Money becomes more of an issue between the two of you.<P>He/she doesn't want to go anywhere or do anything with you anymore.<P>You can't even get your mate to fight with you.<P>You feel as if you are being avoided.<P>Your partner abandons religious faith.<P>Your spouse seems more secretive.<P>OK now go with your gut you are not feeling this way for nothing. If you need help let me know<P>It's going to hurt alot if you find anything, be ready for that, hold your tongue until you have him cold..<P>My prayers are with you<P>Fred

I also have decided that I am going to be good to myself.....probably the best of it <BR>

That's the best thing you can do for yourself and your marriage. I think it's also the most difficult lesson for me, cause I am so use to taking care of everyone else, trying to 'fix it'. I wouldn't say I am a control freak, I just think that I should do something about it. I have so little control over this situation, I can either let that realization make me crazy or try to take care of myself.<P>I am taking your advice in that I don't want alot of details about what is going on. I pray that it hasn't become a physical thing, but knowing my husband it probably has. Yesterday afternoon, he called his office to check in before the weekend began (they had paged him). I did't actually hear the conversation, but it didn't sound like alot of buisiness. He was talking in our bedroom, no laughter, just alot of quiet talk. That's okay, I know who she is, so of course she would page him before the weekend.<P>I looked over your list, it's amazing how many of those statements apply to us over the past four years. He has admitted to me that he didn't have an A with anyone at his former office, which is where I worked so then I would have known the OW personally. He just won't admit to anything about his current office staff, except to joke about it now. I just joke back, I don't think I should be too emotional right now. We were sitting on the couch last night, and he acted like he wanted to say something, but he never did. Maybe some day.<P>Thank you for being so supportive. I don't have anyone to talk to about this stuff, and the less people around here who know what's going on the better.<BR>

I know what you mean about no one to talk to. You don't have to be in control of your emotions, my wife didn't come clean until I became angry, crying and emotional. You don't want to send the message that you are somehow OK with it. I can tell you are not. You must remember that this is not your fault or your doing.......honestly. It is normal for the betrayed to feel guilty. You get that what if I had done something differently thing going on. It's about accountability, would you have walked out on your family or would you have tried to make it better?? Personally I do not believe that an illnes is justification for breaking someones heart...talk about kicking you when your down. Perhaps there was some communication issues but remember it takes two PLEASE don't take the blame for this.........give him a choice, me or her now! If he goes I don't know then let him know...if you can do this, that you will be out of his life as a partner. It doesn't mean you don't love him it's about loving and respecting yourself.............<P>what do you think?<BR>

Don't know what to do. I want him to just say "you know, I made a mistake", but he just isn't good at that. When he admits to being imperfect, he beats himself up internally with it. Even if I forgive him, he won't forgive himself. THAT is what we have to work on. I asked for his forgiveness for not being a supportive wife and he forgave me and told me to let it go. I think I have, I'm trying to do all the good wife things, have dinner on the table when he gets home and all that stuff. I have been horrible at housekeeping, but hey the house is great now. Things like that make him feel loved.<P>If I get emotional with him, I don't know how he would handle it. I hate confrontations, I feel like that dinosaur in 'Toy Story'. I definately don't want him to think that I am okay with what has happened, how kinky is that? I just feel like I am the crazy one, like I am making all this up in my head, but wouldn't he just tell me I am wrong if I was?<P>Wow, when I allow this to sink in, I get that 'Oh my God' feeling and panic. I trying not to rant and rave, but this is the wildest thing I have ever been through.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tere38:<BR>[B]Don't know what to do. I want him to just say "you know, I made a mistake", but he just isn't good at that. When he admits to being imperfect, he beats himself up internally with it.<P>It sounds like he has some deep self esteem issues himself, He needs some counselling you know that don't you? <P> Even if I forgive him, he won't forgive himself. THAT is what we have to work on. <P>HE has to forgive himself. I have not forgiven myself for the wrongs I wrought against my wife that drove her to where she went. It is a battle I must fight and he must fight it too. He can't forgive himself if he won't admit wrong doing. And like I told you don't forgive too fast, forgiveness is absolution, acting like it never happened, not forgetting but understanding why and realizing that your love and marriage are worth it and being compassionate. you have to know why......don't you??<P>I asked for his forgiveness for not being a supportive wife and he forgave me and told me to let it go. I think I have, I'm trying to do all the good wife things, have dinner on the table when he gets home and all that stuff. I have been horrible at housekeeping, but hey the house is great now. Things like that make him feel loved.<P>If I get emotional with him, I don't know how he would handle it. <P>What are you afraid of?? that he will leave again? he did it once and you survived. I don't think he will. Sometimes the very thing you think will drive him away is what your spouse wants. I prayed that my wife would get angry and emotional, that she would reveal her true self to me, good and bad......That is honesty and honesty is the cornerstone of a marriage, there has to be wide open honesty now, from you and him, If you begin he will start to feel safe and may open up to you. As a man I can tell you that he fears your rejection. This doesn't mean that you should hide your feelings. I NEEDED to get beat up to find myself and see the things I was doing wrong. My wife needed it too. If he feels how much pain he has caused and feels guilt, then that is the strongest deterrent you can have against another EA.<P> I hate confrontations, I feel like that dinosaur in 'Toy Story'. I definately don't want him to think that I am okay with what has happened, how kinky is that? I just feel like I am the crazy one, like I am making all this up in my head, but wouldn't he just tell me I am wrong if I was?<P>Don't suppose that you know what he would do, he has already done something you didn't think he would do right?? He may not tell you anything. He may be acting out toward you letting you be in pain, controlling you. Think very hard does he control you at all, do you assume a submissive or dependent role, This is a very damaging cycle if you are there.<P>I used to avoid confrontation at every cost with my wife for fear that she would not want me. I found out what damage it could do. I do not hold back now and she only respects me for it. Honesty...say what you feel, what you think. Perhaps you are afraid that a confrontation would lead to a confession. Again...do you really want to know specifics, I wish I had never found specific things it is too Painful. No matter what if you are to resolve this and build a stronger, affair proof marriage you will have to suffer great pain, like you never hav before. It is worth it. Even as bad as thing sometimes are, my relationship with my wife is better now than it ever was.......<P>you have some decisions to make<P>Wow, when I allow this to sink in, I get that 'Oh my God' feeling and panic. I trying not to rant and rave, but this is the wildest thing I have ever been through. <P>Yes and it will get wilder, It's so unreal because we tell ourselves that our loved ones would never betray us. It is a base belief, it was part of our wedding vows before god. It hurts incredibly but if you don't get to the bottom of this you will be hurt even more<P>

Thanks, I needed and deserved that. I am going to talk to him soon. We actually had a pretty good start this afternoon, so maybe he is getting closer to coming clean with me. He hasn't ever actually left me, except to go on business trips, so it's like we have a stable marriage on the surface with all this bad stuff underneath. You know, I need him to get mad at me, too. We are terrible at fighting, I could count on my hands the number of fights we have had since we met (1994).<P>We have plenty of alone time to work on this, so I need to get to it. Thanks for the push.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tere38:<BR><B>Thanks, I needed and deserved that. I am going to talk to him soon. <P>I can't remember, are you in counselling?? One of the ways I was able to expres myself at first was write her a letter telling her That I was angry, hurt, disappointed in her. This is a good way to open the lines of communication. My wife and I email often now when I am at work. Just regular stuff now. Oh........do you keep a journal? It's a good idea to start, helps you work things out in your head/heart. <P> We actually had a pretty good start this afternoon, so maybe he is getting closer to coming clean with me.<P>Have you asked him to attend couples counselling? Most employers have an employee assistance program that will cover that.<P> He hasn't ever actually left me, except to go on business trips, so it's like we have a stable marriage on the surface with all this bad stuff underneath.<P>Listen, there really is not too much truth in this statement. What you really have is (pardon the language) a **** filled twinkee. If stable means not arguing, not sharing feelings HONESTLY, not saying confrontational things out of a fear that we may "hurt the other person" when in fact we fear the confrontatiion because it opens us up to rejection, and we aren't sure how we will act when angry because we don't fight. If stable means putting things away that hurt you to avoid the pain, then you may want to re-evaluate why you believe that. <BR> <BR>You know, I need him to get mad at me, too.<P>Why?? you two should understand that why your relationship went off track is very important, I can't urge you enough to seek proffesional guidance (couples couselling). There will be some resentment as things pop up and if anything your H may have resentment for anything he percieves that you have done. Remember it is your responsibily and his as well to say when things aren't right. It's like running a bussiness, you do the things that make money, you invest in things that will make the company stronger, viable. You dont do things that will cost you money or make the bussiness fail and you are constantly evaluating the effectiveness of your bussiness strategies, removing the things that don't work or cut profits and promoting and imroving things that do. It is the same if you wish to have a relationship that works well, many marriages work in the context that the couple stays together just as a bussines can work for a number of years and just stay above water, what you want is a successfule marriage based on trust, honesty and respect and also freindship.<P>AND here's the toughest one........you have to be painfully honest with yourself, to the point where you can admit to yourself that it is ok to be angry, to be hurt, to want the best for you. In an earlier post you said that you are raising three kids, You are wife and mother, do you identify yourself beyond that?? not that those are bad things to be, they are some of the best things. You need to be able to say I like myself, I love myself and it's OK to be selfish sometimes.<P> We are terrible at fighting, I could count on my hands the number of fights we have had since we met (1994).<P>I could have done that in my marriage since 1985. IT DOES NOT WORK. Not arguing when thigs bother you means you keep it in, it builds resentment, then that resentment becomes ingrained if you keep it and get more, it becomes who you are and you get used to it being there, it becomes the filter through which we see our partner. Disagreements are how we solve disputes, they are normal, avoiding them is not.<P>We have plenty of alone time to work on this, so I need to get to it. Thanks for the push.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Is it possible that your H didn't bring things up to you when you were sick because you had enough to deal with??....ask him. He needs to know that it's OK to be angry, hurt,you are there no matter what, He may need to cry on you but he needs to feel safe first, It's a big leap of faith for a man to breakdown in front of anyone wives included because we're supposed to be that strong protector types. There's more to that, you need to feel safe too, admith that to yourself, don't open to him until you do.<P>Hugs<P>

This has just become our own private little chat room hasn't it? Tell me, have you ever considered becoming a professional counselor? Joyce Meyer (the evangelist) has said that people should also be able to carry a degree in the 'Been There, Done That' school of hard knocks. I personally need to hear this stuff from someone who knows where I am. I need someone to get frustrated at me when I am banging my head against a wall.<P>We have not started counseling yet. He says that he would like to work through this on his own first, then consult someone if it doesn't work out. This is both of our second marriages, and he had a terrible experience with a counselor during his first marriage. She and his wife sort of ganged up against him, he said he felt beaten up after every session. I had some personal counseling when my first marriage was in trouble, and it helped me alot. Our pastors are excellent counselors, but then not only would he have to confess this indescretion to me, but also his spiritual advisor.<P>My kids are very independent teenagers, so for the first time in my life I am starting to have time for myself. I run every morning, lift weights several times a week, and practice yoga. My body never looked better, and that is healing my mind. Yes,I would have to say that I am looking out for myself. I am going to have a massage this week which I am looking forward to.<P> We are planning a trip away this summer, just us, so I am excited about that. We use to travel, we love Dallas, but the past few years that hasn't been possible. I'm thinking we will probably go to the ocean, cause I love the ocean and he knows that.<P>Thanks for being my cheerleader. I know it must be frustrating for you to see me bang my head against the wall, but I am trying . I'll keep you informed, hopefully with progress.<P>Hugs back.

Fred, please read the post from wcm about wife's A. He is in trouble and could use a man's perspective. It is near the top this morning, something about 'Wife won't admit mistake', wish I had gotten the correct title. He is jumping to divorce with papers ready to be served this week. YIKES!