I have been reading the other postings with interest and relief. I have felt so alone, and isolated but it seems that there are a lot of people with similar problems. <BR>I found out on 4/29 that my wife was having an e-mail affair (EM?), and I believe (although she hasn’t admitted it) that it went physical on at least one occasion. I had suspected for a while, but never had anything concrete until 1 in the morning on D-Day.<P>She had met the OM at a school board meeting, and apparently spent the entire time at that meeting and a subsequent one 'whispering' to each other and having fun. Even when she described the first meeting, something told me that this was more than just being friendly, but I ignored my intuition and trusted my wife, whom I have been with for 10+ years.<P>They exchanged e-mails and were soon messaging each other daily. It started slowly but before long they were up to 8+ a day, and soon I couldn't get her away from the computer. She would tell me that she was doing homework (she just started back to school), but what she was really doing was drafting long e-mails to this man. I told her that I had checked her e-mail to see what they had to write about and what was so fascinating, told her I felt guilty and apologized for doing so, but that I was very concerned that this was more than a friendship. She and I talked for 4 hours the first night, and she looked me in the eyes and promised that she had told him they needed to lay off, that things were getting too personal. She then set up secret e-mail account and the relationship got much more serious. I confronted her again, and again she promised to tell him that they were going to lay off.<P>Our D-Day actually started on 4/28 when she asked me to take the kids to the museum so she would have a quiet place to work on her economics homework. She spent the entire time on-line with him, with a break long enough to put a scented letter on his car. I couldn’t sleep that night so I spent some time on the computer and found most of everything. She walked in at one and from then until four we talked.<P>We spent a lot of time talking but she resents that I don’t trust her, in fact she got really angry on the day they met to say ‘goodbye,’ which is the day I suspect went physical.<BR>We have talked a lot and she seems committed to our marriage, but she has lied to me on two occasions since then (neither of which I confronted her about) and there is still the opportunity for them to see each other at the school board meetings.<P>I am tired of being angry and untrusting and she doesn’t want to talk about it anymore because it makes her feel rotten. She refuses to go to counseling. I guess that I am just looking for a place to vent with folks who understand.<P>------------------<BR>

kale -<P>Welcome to the MB forum - the best way you can help yourself is to get Dr. Harley's book Surviving an Affair (SAA) (After the Affair by Dr. Janis Spring is good also). If you need to answer why, and if you need to find avenues to help you cope, and help you learn how to tackle the situation. It downright HURTS! My H used e-mail and aol instant messenger (I had fun deleting handles later), I found out beginning of June last yr (June 10 to be exact), oh that was hell. If I'd read SAA I would have know what to do and why. I was lost, now after knowing about SAA, I would do things somewhat differently.<P>Anyway, we know this is emotional. Glad you found us soon. Also, read the thread for newbies, and follow Dr. Harley's advice. There is also some software you can put on your computer for passwords, and information. If someone else can help us out here with the name of the software (I forgot to write it down).<P>Hope this helps. aftershock

<BR>I know it hurts, it's going to hurt more. She is going to be angry for the invasion of her privacy if she finds out you've been watching, also don't wait a single minute if you get concrete evidence. Get it out in the open.....and let her know how much pain she is causing you, Not anger, you get angry because you've been hurt, you're hurt because you're trust has been betrayed, you've been betrayed, lied to, decieved and that hurts, she needs to know that. It's hard for us men to do that, to show that sort of emotion, sensitivity, to be open and vulnerable. But listen, If she loves you and she knows the anguish, torment and pain she has caused you it should be enough to keep her off of this, often the guilt associated with A's is enough.<P>You are in for a long journey my freind. In the end your marriage will be stronger, your relationship better. Start with Wide open Honesty and go from there.....<P>My prayers<P><p>[This message has been edited by gpsman (edited May 30, 2001).]

after shock/gps man-<BR>Thank you for your responses. It is so nice not to be so alone.<P>Fortunately (or unfortunately for my wife's A) I am a computer programmer, and had a pretty good idea where to look. She had been using Hotmail and AOL instant messaging and she thought that by deleting her messages they were gone. I can tell you that the Hotmail program temporarily stores EVERYTHING on your hard drive, and the data doesn't get deleted until it is purposely removed. It was through these files that I found what I did. This was one of our first D-Days. I don’t know think there is an residue left from IM, so I deleted the handles and removed the program from our computer. She promised not to communicate with this guy again, but I know that she has e-mailed him at least twice from work.<P>I found a program called Black Box (www.enfiltrator.com) which captures keystrokes. This program is more expensive to register but it has a 10 day trial period. Through this I got passwords and the other secret e-mail accounts. Now I monitor all the accounts, but I feel like I am skulking in the background. <P>I really HATE doing this. We used to trust each other completely. Within a few short months our would has been blasted apart. Now I feel like a police officer (a slimy one at that), sneaking around deceiving her in a way that is similar to the way she deceived me. She hasn't e-mailed him for over a week and has cleaned up most of the messages, both to and from him. I honestly think she is trying to completely break if off.<P>It is hardest though when she goes to her meetings where he might be there. Or when she talks about him. Also, she has been playing the *&%$! 'Follow Me' song, by Uncle Kracker, over and over. If you don't know what it is, then you are probably better off. It is a popular song right now, about two people who have an affair. She says that she likes the way it grooves, but for me it is like rubbing salt into an open wound.<P>I have been reading Dr. Harley's book His 'Needs Her Needs', and have gotten my wife to read part of it. This book was recommend by our pastor and is very insightful. After reading the book I discovered that as hard as it is for me to accept, part of the affair is my fault. Somehow I am/was not meeting her needs, and that she is not fulfilled and satisfied with our relationship. I feel that she really needs to take responsibility for her actions and that she should not have taken the easy way out. If her needs weren’t/aren’t being met then it seems that she has a responsibility to let me know and work with me, her spouse, to get them met. So following Dr. Harley's advice, I have made great strides to change my work schedule and show her more affection. I will pick up SAA. His other book has been so good, I trust that SAA gives me some direction.<P>I have been praying about this whole thing since the first day she came home and told me about him. Perhaps it is through God that I discovered what was going on so quickly. Although I have Him, it is has still been a lonely journey. I want our kids to live in a home that has both mommy and daddy in it. I am willing to do ANYTHING to keep my family together.<P>

This is rich. She is angry that you do not trust her after all the things you mentioned. She must get in couseling at once. If you think that it has already gone physical then you need to get checked immediately. If this OM is married then I would inform him that you plan to tell his wife or if you know for sure then tell his wife. You have to fight for your marriage. You must continue to check on her computer.<BR>She has given up her privacy when she broke your marriage vows. I would also hire a babysitter and go to the board meetings with her.

Kale-IM<P>You and I are in the same boat. Sucks doesn't it. <P>Could you please share more about recovering the hotmail e-mail data. I would really appreciate it.<P>Thanks.<P>bone

Bryanp-<P>I had not even thought about getting checked. You are right, but I am not totally certain how far things went, if they did go physical. I never imagined that I would be in a situation where I would have to get ‘checked,’ it is disturbing to say the least.<P>I actually went over to the OM’s house the night after our last D-Day. He is currently living with his brother, who would not let me talk to the OM. It was probably a good thing. I found his wife’s e-mail and sent a message to her outlining what happened. At first she did not believe me; actually I think that she didn’t WANT to believe me. I sent her the message on a Friday, the following Monday I got a message back from her saying she thought it over and decided to confront her husband. He apparently admitted to some of what happened, but from her response I got the impression that he really played the whole thing down (naturally). Unfortunately for her, she confronted him without getting any more details from me, so she really didn’t have a lot of ammunition. Perhaps she knew more than she let on though, since I didn’t give any names but she knew who the OW was. <P>From what I have read in his e-mails this is not the first woman he has been with, nor do I doubt that it will be his last. He was seeing another woman while he was communicating with my wife, and I am sure that this still happening. I have prayed for his wife, she is really going to need it. By the way, these two have only been married for 8 months.<P>I haven’t figured out yet what the worst part of the whole thing is, but a very high contender is the breaking of our trust and marriage vows. I don’t know exactly how long the lying went on, but now I can’t hear anything from her now without watching for the tell-tale signs of lying. Now I always have to wonder if she is telling the truth. How long will this go on? I can’t help but wonder if she is no longer lying, or if she is just getting much better at it? I don’t want to be the fool who wakes up in 5 years and realizes that he has been buffaloed again and again. But at the same time I don’t want to wake up in 5 years and realize that I should have trusted my wife after all, because she really has mended her ways and has recommitted to ‘us.’<P>You know, in the 10+ years we have been together she had never lied to me. I was always very comfortable and took our honesty for granted. But as the old song goes “You don’t know what you’ve got, until it’s gone.”<P>bone-<P>This sucks, as things have never sucked before.<P>I am willing to share with you what I know. First I need to know how comfortable you feel on your computer – do you need very detailed instructions or just general information?. Note: you will need to get into Windows Explorer and do some file searching. This is not a quick or pleasant job by and stretch of the imagination. It took me several hours to recover the information, but unless the other person knows how to ‘clean up’ after themselves (which most people don’t – or at least they don’t bother), then trust me it is there.<P>Kale-IM<P>PS I am taking my family out of town this weekend so I might not get the instructions back to you until Tuesday.<BR>

bone-<P>Just curious, what happened with you and your spouse?<P>Kale-IM

Kale - IM:<P>I am an amateur computer geek. As a matter of fact, I oversee our peer to peer network at my office.<P>I assumed that what you do is to search in "temporary internet files" or for some sort of *.tmp file. I was wondering if hotmail named the *.tmp in some identifiable way.<P>My wife would not know how to erase this trail.<P>My discovery (actually confession) came 5 weeks ago. My wife's friend tricked her into it. My wife was having a EA with her H. Here's the kicker. The OM was my best friend.<P>Since the disclosure, my wife has seemed to do everything right - all of the MB principles. Her EA was different - I think - in that she was not looking for romance and love in the typical male/female way. I believe her when she tells me this.<P>You may ask why I want to look for these e-mails. I am not sneaking around. My wife has said that we should do whatever is necessary to assure us that their are no future surprises that could set us back. So, in seeking this info, I have her blessing. <P>Thanks for your help.<P>bone<P>

Kale,<BR>It sounds like you are doing everything correct. The fact that this guy had previous affairs is another reason to get checked immediately. For instance genital herpes is an<BR>epidemic now. I would make it clear to your wife that any lying or cheating in the furure will result in the end of the marriage.<BR>She is now on notice. If later you really suspect something is not right then I would suggest hiring a PI to check on her. It will give you piece of mind. She has forfetted her right to trust and privacy for the time being. I wish you luck.

bone-<P>Since you are already a computer geek (as am I) then I will dispense with the details of how to use search and the what-not.<P>Since each e-mail system stores things differently you will have some work to do. What I did first is a search on *.htm* using the root drive of the computer (typically c , then sort it by last modified date. When a web-based program runs it will often create a temporary html page on your computer and display this (this is known as dynamic html because it builds the file on the fly). The files could be ANYWHERE so be sure to use c: as your 'Look in.' Most programs do a very bad job of cleaning up after themselves, so these files get left indefinitely. Anyway, after you have sorted by date then go to the suspect dates and you should be able to just double-click on the file. The computer will know how to open it.<P>Some of these files will contain very little, maybe just a picture. Be very methodical and you will find what you are looking for. (Although I hope that it isn't there -- meaning she hasn't been doing anything she is not supposed to.)<P>After you have done this do another search, this time on the find menu click the 'Date' tab. This searches all the files on the PC based on their last modified date. Either enter a date range or select 'during the previous x days' depending on how much and what you want to search. For Hotmail the best files where ones that started with 'spell' which is a temporary file used by the spell-checker.<P>The files you find here might not be as easy to open since they won't all be html files. For the most part you will have to open the file with a text editor and see if there is anything in it. Often you will find it is just garbage (typically a binary file). Tmp files are typically just binary data or stored temporary values from parameters. I have never found anything useful in them.<P>Also, see my previous message about using a keystroke capture program.<P>Honestly I feel a little...slimy telling others how to ‘spy’ (as I do when I have to do it myself), but if someone had a tip that could help me, I would certainly want to know.<P>Please let me know if you have questions.<P>Kale-IM<BR>

Hey there,<P>I also caught W and OM through hotmail but it was by finding the passwords to the accounts. I did not realize that it cached this info on the hard drive. I am a LAN Analyst so I do have a good knowledge on computers. I would be interested in you letting me know how this can be done. I'm not sure if I really want more than what I have but it would be nice to know. By the way Key Key is what I finally went with and is very easy and runs well in undetectable mode. Thanks in advance.<P>For the life of me, I cannot see why they would choose to have an A over computers when they know how skilled some us are!!<BR>

Thanks Kale. <P>I hope you can have a good weekend with your family. We've gotten away a few times since it all went down and had reasonably good times in spite of everything. <P>My prayers are with you.<P>bone