Listen, I did not have proof positive that something was going on, it was a gut feeling. remember that list I sent you???? Then little things kept popping up. You see we don't want to believe it. We can't imagine our spouses doing anything like this. We don't want the hurt. <P><p>[This message has been edited by gpsman (edited May 30, 2001).]

Thanks for starting me a new thread! Didn't know how to do it, didn't know what to say or how much further to take these feelings because...<P>We had the talk last night, in which he told me that he has not been physical with anyone except me since we got married. I am believing this, I have to. We didn't fight about it, we talked and I told him my suspicions. He was angry with me, angry that I kept it inside, angry that I felt this way, angry that there is nothing he can do to change the way I feel. I think we need to talk a bit more, but after that I think I am just going to drop it but maybe keep talking here or just checking it out.<P>I did go to the office yesterday and saw the alleged OW and she was not comfortable around me, wouldn't look me in the eye. I am trying not to read alot into that, but she is my prime suspect so of course I allow it to creep in and bother me occasionally. That was her mother's number on the phone that was 'secret' but he told me he would remove it. He hasn't yet, but I feel he will.<P>Thanks for relocating me. I appreciate the opportunity to vent because my outlets are limited presently and it probably needs to stay that way. Take care.

Hi there, I've been reading your threads. <P>I just wanted to let you know my H was "angry" with me the first few times when I asked what was going on. It wasn't until I had proof, that he actually confessed. <P>Orginally I thought "there must not be anything going on, or he wouldn't be angry". Boy was I wrong. <P>Good luck to you.

I'm glad you were honest with your H about your suspicions. I did bring up my suspicions about H's OW to him back then,at time of A, just once. He denied, but didn't get angry. I think that it is a good sign that your H got angry, maybe shows sincerity, and/or that he cares what you think. But others have said their WS's were angry with intitial confrontation, so I don't know. I'm no expert, just giving you my opinions based on my experience, for what it is worth.<P>I am curious as to what explanation your H gave for the alledged OW's mother's(did you say) number being on his cell? Was it plausible? He said he wasn't physical with her. Did he admit to any emotional feelings, infatuation, attraction?<P>Did you buy "HIS NEEDS/HER NEEDS" for him, and you, to read?<BR>Did you tell him you are reading "SA"? I think if he read about the need for openness and honesty in a marriage he would understand your need to talk and know all you need to know about this alledged OW, or any other potential OW. <P>I've always thought I would be a needy, clingy, nag if I wanted to know more about the who, what, where of my husband's life away from me. Like all the negative phrases such as "henpecked", "spouse kept on a short leash", etc. were something I would be ashamed to admit to being part of. But after this (H's A), both my H and I agree this is the way to go, and that it really isn't a negative thing, but a realistic way to behave in a marriage, when you really think about it. Plus I'm lucky that my H says he will gladly do anything I need, along these lines, to make things better for our marriage, if that is what it takes. And we both agree, it does make sense, despite the negativity others on the "outside" (people who have never been through an A in their marriage) may assign to it.<P>I've rambled again, sorry I do that. I suppose I am interested in your situation, because it allows me to vicariously relive what happened to me four years ago, with the wisdom and benefit of 20/20 hindsight. Crazy, morbid? I don't know, but somehow it helps me in some way to give you advice, I think, as crazy as that sounds. <P>But of course we are different people, different lives and circumstances. I do hope YOUR husband is honest about the OW, and nothing is happening. I wish the best for you and your husband!

Dorie, thanks again! You are inspiring to me, my rollercoaster is on overdrive today and I just need to hear what's what.<P>H said he put her mom's number on there when her father was dying last year and just never removed it. Since he just got this new phone this spring, I haven't bought that yet. He is a very caring person, but he does not need to have that phone number on there in my eyes, no matter what.<P>Emotionally, he hasn't confessed to me where his feelings are for her. He just repeats how much he loves me, and I have to try to trust him with this. After meeting her yesterday, I all but had my proof that something is happening. I just can't peg what it is.<P>Take care.

Are you going to get into couples counselling?? I think you should, If he loves you it should be just the thing. There are issues you cannot solve alone, you haven't felt these things for nothing,.......REMEMBER THE LIST, Ask him if he will do that, it's a good litmus test if nothing else.<P>Hang in there, don't let your guard down too fast if there is anything going one believe me he has rehearsed his responses. Most WS's do still love thier BS's it's just that stuff gets in the way. The job is to wade through it and find a safe shore.<P>Keep me posted<P>Prayers

I have mentioned couples counseling, but he thinks we can do this alone. I even asked him if he thought I should do therapy to work through my paranoia, he said he wants us to try on our own first. It's tricky when you are in the medical field, people still talk, and he had a bad experience with his first wife (they ganged up on him). I'll keep broaching that subject and see where it gets me.<P>I'll get the list and talk it over with him. Maybe that will help him open up, he seems afraid to talk about it. He hates it when I am upset, I don't attack I just get really quiet and withdrawn. I can't imagine he would be afraid I would confront her, that's just not in my nature. He mentioned yesterday that she is thinking of going back to her old job in home-health. That would be wonderful!<P>Hope you are all doing well, and that this weekend is a good one for everyone concerned.

Hey there tere <P>Don't think I didn't enjoy some of the tangents of the other thread. When you relate to someone else's situation here, it's not a bad thing to talk about other things in one's life as well. And I don't worry about boring others too much (as anyone could tell by my soapbox in one of the 'needs' threads - read that one if you're having trouble sleeping some night and need a real snoozer <P>Getting some great posts in this thread. Dorie and gpsman have obviously seen this before. My issues and perspective are a bit different but related, and I'm still here for 'moral support' if needed.<P>Gotto go, but all enjoy the weekend. I have a tradition for this weekend - pick out 4 or 5 drivers for Indy 500 as favorites and cheer them on as you watch the race. Everyone in the family makes their pick before it starts so it's a big deal. I suppose you could even do that at those 'NASCAR' races too And cooking up a big 'mess of ribs'... Have I succeeded at taking this thread off topic sufficiently? Sorry gpsman. Make the most of the weekend away tere!!<P><BR>

Are you asking his permission to get your own counselling?? tere38 this is something you do for you apart from him. You have suffered some great pains over the last few years, of course it would help to be guided in sorting them out. He is afraid of the counselling pointing a damming finger at him. Listen get on the phone and call around and if you ask some of your freinds you may get a good referral. <P>Let him know that you want counselling for yourself if you really want it. <P>You know if you get bad service at a restuarant you don't stop eating out, you just go somewhere else.<P>It is a rough road solo, without help, My W and I had troubles 10 years ago and didn't get counselling after and look what happened. And people will talk anyway, I've only gotten respect and admiration from those who know I'm in counselling. I work in search and rescue and believe me people talk but when it comes to saving a marriage no one has anything negative to say. Don't give up on this I think it is important.<P>hugs<P>Fred

<<<I've always thought I would be a needy, clingy, nag if I wanted to know more about the who, what, where of my husband's life away from me. Like all the negative phrases such as "henpecked", "spouse kept on a short leash", etc. were something I would be ashamed to admit to being part of. >>><P>For the last 15 years - the entire time my H has been at his Big Important Company - I felt exactly the way you describe above. The last thing I wanted was for him to think I didn't trust him or didn't respect his privacy, that he would have to come home to a nagging, prying wife every night.<P>So, of course I trusted him. I always told him exactly who/what/where/when if I ever had to go somewhere with the men I worked with, because it was always in the back of my mind that I never wanted my H to hear some second- or third-hand story about "hey, saw your wife in a car with this guy, wazzup with that??"<P>Naively, stupidly, I thought he would always do the same for me. Of course, it didn't work that way. My "trust" simply allowed him to have a separate, second life at the workplace, where he is generously supplied with computers, telephones, e-mail, pagers, lunch dates, dinner dates, business travel, and attractive females.<P>I was so stupid about this kind of stuff that I honestly thought if he didn't tell me anyone else was going with him on this month's out-of-state business trip, it meant he was going alone. After all, I would always make sure HE knew exactly what I was doing and who else was there, so that meant he would do the same, wouldn't he?<P>I just looked in the mirror, and you know what? I really do have "Stupid" tatooed across my forehead.<P>I gave him an inch and he took 10,000 miles. Hope it was worth it to him.<P>Psycho_B***h<BR>

Just calm down, and don't be so hard on yourself. You trusted him because that's what he vowed to you when he married you. Same for me, and I am still not entirely sure what's going on with my H. I know where my faults lie with this situation, and I have apologized for it. He won't tell me what's been going on with him, but I have plenty of clues that reveal my terror. Now, I am just trying to stay sane, not let him see how twisted this whole situation is and how devastated I am by it.

I'm back in the loop again after the long weekend and H took a few extra days off. He is also coming home from work early instead of late now, what a bonus! We enjoyed the race weekend, although it was incredibly hot. There were a bunch of us, my H's brother and his two boys also went with us, so not much time to talk about anything.<P>Last Friday, we went shopping together and from the trip I netted two really cool gifts: a Taurus 22 magnum pistol and a motorcycle helmet. My husband loves shooting and wants me to learn. We went to the gun club this week and I did pretty good. We took his motorcycle out for a ride Saturday afternoon, and that was very enjoyable. I think this is in line with Dr. Harley's advice on recreational partners. My H thought I wouldn't be interested in his hobbies, so he never asked me to participate. So far, I am having a great time!

You do sound great today! And it sounds like you AND your H are really trying (not just you). That's FANTASTIC. I'm sure you still have a trust issue to work out completely. It may raise its head now and then, even if the relationship continues to improve as it sounds as though it is. And from his behavior, it sounds like "IF" (big IF, see?) anything ever did happen between H and, well you know , it may well be over. There seem to be superficial signs of that. You've been through it with him, and if anyone can understand, forgive and forget, it's you. People do things, even self-destructive things, for the oddest reasons sometimes. Sometimes just a 'weak' period in their lives, who knows??. But YOU have him, and it really sounds like it's YOU he wants to create a better, closer, permanent relationship with. We've chatted back and forth here over the weeks and often feel like I'm getting to know someone. So I wish you the very best tere and would be inspirational for many here to see yours as a wonderful example of a 'success story'.<P>PS - DON'T EVER give up the running or whatever else to keep physically fit. IT has the nice side benefit of improving emotional strength as well, right?!!<BR>

Bill, you are right about the running, but a bad habit has also crept back in....smoking! I have quit before, and I will quit again, but right now it gets me through some of the rough parts of the day when I am alone. I don't even smoke a quarter of a pack a day, but it is really bugging me that I started again. I started over that horrible first weekend last month, so here I am with that hanging over me again. My H also smokes a few in the evening, so this isn't anything that he would totally disapprove of.<P>As far as everything else, I am keeping in line with our earlier chats. I can't snoop too much, it makes me feel like a cheater also. Someday, when this isn't so raw and painful, he will explain it all to me. I know there is something to it, cause I know him too well. He told me last night that we seemed to be falling back into some bad patterns, so I am going to work on that this weekend. He seems really insecure right now, and he doesn't want to talk about it. Any insight?

Oh yeah! I am going to look into counseling for myself if he will agree and not be too offended. I can't do it behind his back for the above mentioned reasons, but I know he will let me do this if it will help me.

Hello, Dorie,<BR> I was hoping I could jump in here.This is my first posting in this forum. My story is that my H (don't know all the abbreviations yet!) left me after 20years of marriage 2 weeks ago with a note on the TV. He IS having an affair, has moved in with OW. Here's where it's weird to me: he was traveling with his job up until 3 months ago, when the job ended. He would travel to the city where she lives, 150 miles from here. He even TOLD ME one time that she attempted to call him, and HE TOLD HER NEVER TO CALL AGAIN!!! He also told me he was going to tell his co. he didn't want to go to that city anymore, since there weren't enough stores to make it worthwhile to be away from home for such a long period of time...I believed him. Was I really stupid, or has he been conflicted about doing this thing for awhile, and trying to make me move closer to meeting his needs so he wouldn't be tempted to go, but I didn't hear him, and he finally went?<BR> In this situation, I feel I DID contribute to his unhappiness and maybe his ultimate separation. Please DON'T everyone beat me up and tell me it's not my fault, etc. etc. I know that. I'm just saying...I think in his own way he was trying to get help in staying away from her, but was being pulled in, and I wasn't tuned in enough to hear it.<BR> my fear at this point is that we had grown SO far apart that there wasn't much holding this marriage together anyway, and there's nothing (except a 20 year history) to bring him back. I DO want him back, would take him back, at this point. I know what I had done wrong, and think I could make it better, But I'm not sure there's enough here for him to want to come back to...if he thinks I've not met any of his needs (NOT just the sexual ones) nor could I. <BR> Anyway, thanks for listening...<BR> Lupo<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dorie:<BR><B>I'm glad you were honest with your H about your suspicions. I did bring up my suspicions about H's OW to him back then,at time of A, just once. He denied, but didn't get angry. I think that it is a good sign that your H got angry, maybe shows sincerity, and/or that he cares what you think. But others have said their WS's were angry with intitial confrontation, so I don't know. I'm no expert, just giving you my opinions based on my experience, for what it is worth.<P>I am curious as to what explanation your H gave for the alledged OW's mother's(did you say) number being on his cell? Was it plausible? He said he wasn't physical with her. Did he admit to any emotional feelings, infatuation, attraction?<P>Did you buy "HIS NEEDS/HER NEEDS" for him, and you, to read?<BR>Did you tell him you are reading "SA"? I think if he read about the need for openness and honesty in a marriage he would understand your need to talk and know all you need to know about this alledged OW, or any other potential OW. <P>I've always thought I would be a needy, clingy, nag if I wanted to know more about the who, what, where of my husband's life away from me. Like all the negative phrases such as "henpecked", "spouse kept on a short leash", etc. were something I would be ashamed to admit to being part of. But after this (H's A), both my H and I agree this is the way to go, and that it really isn't a negative thing, but a realistic way to behave in a marriage, when you really think about it. Plus I'm lucky that my H says he will gladly do anything I need, along these lines, to make things better for our marriage, if that is what it takes. And we both agree, it does make sense, despite the negativity others on the "outside" (people who have never been through an A in their marriage) may assign to it.<P>I've rambled again, sorry I do that. I suppose I am interested in your situation, because it allows me to vicariously relive what happened to me four years ago, with the wisdom and benefit of 20/20 hindsight. Crazy, morbid? I don't know, but somehow it helps me in some way to give you advice, I think, as crazy as that sounds. <P>But of course we are different people, different lives and circumstances. I do hope YOUR husband is honest about the OW, and nothing is happening. I wish the best for you and your husband!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Hey Lupo, I'm not Dorie, she does visit my threads occasionally, but if you want to talk to her, and she IS great with advice, you might want to start your own thread so she sees that you need to talk to her. She has been in this situation a bit longer than me, I just found out myself one month ago, so she has been amazing at picking me up when I am really down.<P>I will say this, thank God he told you. Do you have any idea how long he has been intimate with this woman? At any rate, it doesn't matter, you have 20 years with this man and that means alot. Read everything you can get your eyes on from the Harleys, there is plenty to read on this site, also buy 'Surviving an Affair' as soon as possible. Dr. Harley explains how a spouse can be tempted into straying. It sure opened my eyes. I have been a terrible wife for four years or more, depressed, unable to meet any of my husband's emotional needs. I turned off sexually, which explains to me why he would be tempted to do this. THAT keeps my anger level low. Read about meeting his needs, start with Plan A, which is outlined on this site. Once your husband sees the changes in you, it will benefit both of you.<P>Do something for yourself every day. I run, do yoga, anything to decrease my stress. I try to have a welcome enviroment prepared for him when he comes home. I know you can't do that since he has already moved out, but whenever he sees you, let him see the changes you have made. Try very hard not to show anger at this point, because he expects that and that will push him further into the OW's arms (clutches?). She is doing everything for him that he thinks you can't give, and she will play that to the hilt. Be prepared for some rough roads ahead, but you can save your marriage if you start TODAY!<P>My prayers are with you. Stay strong. tere

Hey, you know me, never short on insight No guarantees it's GOOD insight, however <P>My suggestion(s)? Quit smoking right now! Don't pick up even one more. It's bothering you and making you feel worse about yourself. Humans are far from perfect. We have needs and frailties. Even the 'best' of us. You may have zeroed in on the most important revelation of all to improve your marriage and life happiness in general - you recognize your H has insecurities. EVERYONE has insecurities!! What is expected of him in his career? If he makes a mistake can he just say "oh, no big deal, nobody's perfect"? No. His profession demands perfection, and no doubt he demands and expects perfection of himself. What a burden to accept! So of course he has insecurities. And you sound as though you are a very level-headed, intelligent person who, like all of us, has had strong periods in your life, and difficult challenges as well. But I hear someone tetering on a strong/difficult period. A fork in the road. Take the strong path! Quit smoking. Step up the running. How far do you run? If you're running in the 3 mile range (or whatever), time yourself next time you run just a normal run. Then over the course of the next two weeks, try to shave 10% off your time, consistently. The particulars aren't important, in other words, give yourself positive, achievable personal goals. Sometimes I think our spouse needs strength in us as much or more than in themselves. Feel great about yourself. Exude confidence. Then put that 'positive' energy into improving your marriage/life. Then just be there for him. Be understanding and compassionate. Then you can really be a positive influence on him that he may be needing now and not recognizing it. And don't let those comments such as "we're falling back into bad patterns" go by without asking for more explanation. What patterns? Does he know, or is he just unhappy with himself/insecurities that he's projecting them onto your relationship? See what I mean?<P>We all have 'crutches' in life. Right now, smoking seems to be one of yours. Crutches can help us, but if not really needed, serve to allow us to 'weaken'. A physical therapist will suggest getting off the crutches to exercise and strengthen the muscles. Same with emotional therapy. There's another great book you should read. It's called "Life Strategies" by Phillip C. McGraw. Do these things for yourself AND your H. Nobody can fix this right now but you.<BR>

See, I knew I could depend on that slap on the hand 'Bad Girl' thing from you! Do you know that I never smoked, not even one, until I met my current H? Never, not even in those rebellious teenage years when everyone tries it! My husband has always smoked some, mostly cigars or a pipe, just something to get him through school and stuff. I just sort of picked it up when we had been married for a few years, and he didn't object to me giving it a try, so long as I kept it under control. Then we were 'smoking buddies', something to do when the kids were asleep.<P>I will quit, but I have to do it slowly or I will eat my weight in carbs! I have a routine that works well there, I may try the nicotine gum this time though.<P>I am going to ask him about the bad patterns thing tonight. It's hard to talk with the kids around, they are at their dad's house for the week so we should have plenty of time to talk. He is at his other office today, 40 minutes away, and told me he would probably be late. I tried not to read too much into it, but he hasn't called today and that is not normal. Think I'll give him a page and see how it's going. Thanks!!