I know that this is the weekend and everyone is busy but I need some opinions. After reading RMA post on her session with Steve, I started thinking. I know heaven for bid, the workd may end. BUt anyway, it really started me thinking. <P> For the past four months after H lwalked out, there has really been no contact between the two us or any that would let him know that I still want him back. I have sent short notes (very short) maybe three in all this time. At Thanksgiving I wrote him a letter that he read in from of his parents(I gave it to them to give to him) By the way Thanksgiving was the first contact he has had with his parents and our d and s since he left. <P>Anyway to make a long story short( okay just a little shorter maybe) At T day H told S to let him know when his next doctor's appointment was he wanted to go with us. (Shock!!) I wrote him and told him that if he wanted to call me I would let him know but I wasn't calling him I went on to talk about see Christmas lights and a few general topics . Nothing much. However I did tell him if he ever wanted to look for another job I had a great program for him for job hunting. <P>(Okay it is going to be long) After last night's RMA's thread. I wrote him again. THis time I told the day of the doctor's appointmentif he was serious please call me and then I told him I would really like to see him. That I missed very much. And maybe we could go out to luch before the appointment my treat as his birthday present (The appointment is on his birthday). I also suggested that he might be interested in moving back into our house as it is empty. I would let him have some furniture one condition no OW in my house (He is paying half the mortgage and I the other half) His car has not been working for 8 months. He is dependent on her for transportation. Anyway I asked how much it would cost to fix it and maybe we could work something out on the insurance and the car tag. Give him some independence from her maybe? Then I ended the letter with telling him I really wouldlike to see him and hoped he would call so we can set up a time.<P>He made a strange comment to his mother when she asked if he was staying with the OW He answered for now. Made me wonder if he would leave if he had the opportunity.<P>Well, I know long post and it is the weekend but what do you all think. I will mail this anyway as RMA told me what do I have to lose. Nothing right now but I do have everything to gain. So what do you think?<P><P>------------------<BR>di<P>

At least now he knows how you feel. If there were no lovebusters in the letter, I think it was a good thing. I'm sure the honeymoon time with ow is wearing off, so hang tight and see how he responds. Where are you living if its not in your house?

di,<P>Your in <B>Plan A</B>!...<BR><B>You did (or will do) good</B>! <P>Good for asking all those things about your son!!!<P>I'm not sure what you meant by "I would let him have some furniture one condition no OW in my house"?...<BR>Is this(furniture) for him to take away?...<BR>You know it will go to the OW... don't you?<P>About the car being fixed... excellent!!! <P>Go for it girl! <P>Jim<BR>---------------------------------<BR>Where two or more are gathered...

Derby, I live with my D in another town.<BR>Jim, The furniture is so he could live in our house. It is empty right now we are trying to sell it. But I thought if he is would like to be aon his own, then he could live in our house but he would need some furniture and I would be willing to move some back in.. I know the OW would be over ther, I just don't want her living there. She has her own place. I was just trying to give him some independence. So he would not have to rely on her all the time. ie she meeting his needs when I can't thing,<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

Yes...<BR>Go for it!<P>Don't get your hopes up to high...<BR>They do get dashed so quickly...<P>In any case keep us posted... <P>Your friend,<P>Jim

Hi Diana,<P>I can only base what I am about to say on my experience. Every situation is different, everyone is unique. <P>It appears to me that you are trying to come to his rescue. If he feels like a failure (which, if I remember rightly, is what you've implied in some of your posts) how is this going to rebuild his self esteem, his self respect? I think it is very encouraging that he asked your son to let him know when the next doctor's appointment was. But, why didn't you let your son communicate this to him? After all, he didn't ask you? Or, did I miss something here? Please forgive me for coming across harsh. I'm just trying to give you a different perspective.<P>I know you love your H with all your heart & this situation is driving you crazy. Believe me, I can relate. You say in your post that there has been no contact. Well, yes there has. You have written him three letters. You are desperately trying to help him (& understandably so!). But, maybe he doesn't want your help. Maybe HE needs to resolve the situation he is in by himself. You say you are trying to give him some independance from her. Well, by doing so, he will then be dependant on you. I'm guessing (again based on my experience) that he doesn't want to be dependant on ANYBODY. That's why he said he was staying with OW 'for now'.<P>By suggesting that he move back into your home without OW, he will no doubt feel like you are trying to separate them. Which, obviously you are. I think you have to be careful here. How could you prevent him from bringing OW with him? And, what could you do if he did?<P>I just sent you a long Email. I don't know if you got a chance to read it prior to this post. But, there is an article on this site that Harley wrote about dependancy & control in relationships. It is very enlightening, & I think applicable to our situations.<P>I hope you didn't mail that letter without reading this article first. It may get you thinking in another direction.<P>You know that I wish you the very best. I'm alway here as a sounding board.<P>

I have to agree with the rest, letters are generaly a good idea in my opinion. It is a mechanism to put our thoughts in front of us to organise and edit.<P>PLAN-A big time! NO LOVEBUSTERS!!!<P>Try not to bargin when you let him know the door is still open. That is ultimately his desision. Try to let him know it's safe to come home, by actions not words. Words con be misconstrued, and turn into LB's.<P>Also avoid talking about OW. Yhink friendship.<P>This is the plan I'm taking so far it's yeilded positive results.<P>Go For IT!<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

SDS,<P> I say go for it. Send the letter. Give him the chance to make some sort of a break with the OW. If you are the one helping him do that it will only help you in the long run.<P>------------------<BR>Love and Prayers<BR>Nicole<P><BR>

Hi SDS -<P>I am glad that you have decided to put forth some opening for contact!! That's great.....<P>I hope that he takes you up on the lunch and DR.'s appointment.<P>I am skeptical about the house thing though...sorry!! I think that might open a can of worms that would add to your pain should he and OW get to involved in it....<P>Prayers that things go possitively on all points in your letter!!!<P>HUGS,<P>Sheba

Diana,<P>I read sidney's post. I am going to look up the article she is referring to. Regardless, she does make some good points, I still think you have nothing else to lose by offering ot see him on the day of the Dr's appointment and you guys going to lunch.<P>Maybe there is something in what sidney said about the house. Sheba echoes some of those same thoughts.<P>But, if I relate your situation to what Steve Harley told me, if nothing else, you and your H can have some positive interactions and those will be his last memories - not all the negative things that happened between you and your H. Right now, since he has not seen you and only had the 3 short notes, he only has the negatives as last interactions. This will give you a chance to have some positive interactions between you two. If he comes to the appt. and then you don't get tosee him again, he will remember how nice you were.....OH, and how great you look since you are now a SIZE 8!!!!!!!!! <P>Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Okay guys, thank you. I just got back home. Went to my mother's brother's funeral. It was kind of hard as this side of the family has always like H and they really didn't know what to say to me. <P>The letter has been mailed. Now let me explain about the house.He is paying half of the mortgage. He had talked earlier about wanting his own place to live before he walked out. My thought is if he want a place where he is independent this might be it. He is already paying the utilities as the real estate co. asked to have them kept on. I figured they wouldn't be much more with just him there. In away it would be like paying rent, but he will be paying it whether he lives there or not. Yes I will make a stipulation that the OW can't live there. I didn't say she couldn't visit, which means she has to keep her place and pay her own rent. If he were not paying half I would not have offered. He has gone from being dependent on me to being dependent on her. While this is a good LB on her part. I also know that he may feel like he is trapped and no other place to go so he stays with her. ALso this maybe why my house has not sold yet. <P>The car is a very touchy subject with us. I would not pay to have it fixed. I tried to control the situation of him seeing her by him being depenedent on me and my car. He is still in that situation only now with her. Again maybe a good LB on her part. But again he feels trapped and no way out so he stays with her. By getting his car and aplace to live he now has alternatives. <P>But they were thoughts I offered and will not say anything about them again. But now he has a place to go if he needs or wants one. He made a comment to his mother when she asked if he was going to stay with the OW, he responded "for now". <P>After 27 years, I do know my H even thoughhe did surprise me with this( never in a million years) and we did talk alot this summer about what he was going through.<P>He has felt trapped for a long time and he wanted to break out but didn't have the self confidence to do so. I don't mean our marriage I mean with his life. The employers he had took away all of his self esteem. Now he is a custodian, no stress but no pay. The only good thing about this job was the insurance( the transplant). He now is trapped in a job because of the insurance, he trapped being able to do anything because he is without a car and he really has no place to live because of the money situation. <P><BR>I just thought this might be away for him to build up his self esteem. He really wouldn't be dependent on either me or the ow. He is helping me out by paying half of the mortgage.(I have been paying it all since he left). <P>Now I always have converstations with God and I feel that the first things I think of when I first wake up is God talking to me. I read once that we are always so busy that we do not hear God talking, and a good time to hear Him was when you first wake. Now, that I have really started listening, I have been amazed at the thoughts that pop in my head, God talking to me. Sometimes it is nothing more then the thought I am going to be alright. But anyway, this morning the first thought was, this is why the house hasn't sold. Now I don't know if this means he will take me up on the offer or whether it means it was a love deposit for offering, but I feel that this was something I was suppose to do.<P>And as we have said many times here,"What Have I got to lose?" But I have so much to gain. <P>In rereading Desiree's post on her session with Steve, I thought I have not let him know in anyway that I want him back. I have made no love deposits in the past four months. I did plenty before he left, but I did some lovebusting too. She has been meeting his needs I haven't and maybe these are needs that need to be met, away to be independent. <P>I know so very long. But I wanted to explain how I felt about this. I do feel this is right. I wasn't sure about it till I read your email SIdney and yours Desiree, and all the comments Jim, Sheba, BIll and Nicole. Explaining it to you all help me understand why it feels right.<P>It is great to have a place to come to talk things out and people listen(read!)<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

Hi, Di. Everyone's said it all. And you thought it through. I think it's great. <P>Lori

Diana,<P>I had company pop in and was off-line for a bit and now am back.<P>I loved your post. As Lori said, you have really thought this all the way through. Good job on your part! <P>Now, I was intrigued aout the part of listeningto God first thing in the morning. I am going to do that tomorrow morning and see what I "hear". Yes, God does talk to us. Too bad sometimes we are too busy to listen. That describes me. I need to listen more.<P>I am so very PROUD of you, Diana. You have and ARE facing so many obstacles right now. Yet, even though the emotions go up and down, your faith has never waivered at all. You really have touched me in a profound way. I am so happy to have met you through this nutso place!!!!!!! <P>I Luv YA!!<P>Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Great job, Diana! Sometimes, I like to play the devil's advocate. But, like I said everyone is unique, everyone is different, and you must do what you believe is best for you and your situation. This is a good place to come to get different perspectives, and is a great sounding board.<P>Just one more suggestion. Should you get into a discussion with H about him moving back into your home, approach it like he would be doing you a favor. Like you said, it may sell faster, security concerns, etc. That way, he will feel like he is making a positive contribution, & it will lessen his feeling of dependancy and control.<P>I sure hope this is the break you have been waiting and praying for. I'm still lighting my candle for you every night!!

Lori, Thanks. I did do a lot of thinking. After I wrote the letter I started thinking about my motives. 1. I want him back! 2. But he has to end the affair first. I know I can not really do anything to speed things up it has to run its course. 3. But I can do little things that show my love. I have felt my hands have been tied because he has been doing plan b on me. How do you let him know. I think by giving him options. I know his situation plus I remember our conversations he had with me and something he told his mother and she told me. The feeling of being trapped. I think that since he is in almost the same situation as he was in before with me, he would feel trapped. By giving him an opportunity to be "own his on" with almost no strings attached. THis might give him some breathing room he needs. Also he once said she really didn't want him living with her(of course this could be a lie ) She was enjoying her independencefrom her spouse. Knowing her history he is probably tying her down. <P>I know I blew it the day he left. I think he felt that this last of lies had blew it with me and he had no option but to leave as I would never trust him again. I didn't tell him that I just withdrew from him. He asked me to go with him and I wouldn't. I know I acted like I didn't care anymore. He made the comment when I tried to talk him to coming back, that why didn't I tell him I loved before he left. I thought I had so many times but I didn't tell him before he left to break it off with her. I didn't give him that extra power that he needed to do the job, she did every time he saw me. He also told me he was afraid of me. I didn't understand that but I think he was afraid that I would no longer love him and would see him as a failure so by walking away his was controlling the situation. Now I need to put back love deposits as I am sure there has been lb on her part if nothing more then he is dependent on her. I am hoping by these offerings giving him the chance of independence will put some deposits back in. I know I probably should not have stipulated that she couldn't live there actually I think I just said something about he would need to live there alone I really didn't mention her per say. I know semantics. But I just wanted him to realize tis was a chance of independence not finacial help for him. (If he wants her there he can pay the whole mortgage)<P>I didn't mean to write another novel just wanted to respond to all of you.<P>Desiree, Too bad we had to come to a lace like this to meet. Not that this place is bad it just what brought us here is. I feel like I have so many friends and such a great support system.<P>Sidney, I kept looking for your post or an email last night now I know why. I am glad things are going better for you. Actually you are the reason this idea popped into my head. Your H wanted to make it on his own to prove to himself and to you he could.<P>I think that is what my h wants to do and if I can clear the road alittle, not control or the have him be dependent on me but he must be able to not be dependent on her either so he can work his way back.<P>Now comes the hard part the waiting. He should have this letter Mon. or Tues. Will I get anytype of response? Who knows I am still not sure he even gets my cards. He told his parents he does but all I know is that he gets the mail I forward to him what about the cards that are sent on their own. But I can't think of that. I did think that if I haven't heard from him by the 20th I could swallow my pride and leave a voice mail about the doctor's appointment and if he wanted to show up he could. Something like I just thought I'd let you know the doctor's appointment is at 2:45 tomorrow. Love ya. Something like that.<P>I know another long post but you are saved I need to stop so I can get ready for church. BUt one last thought actually it is what I started with. I have to find a way to show him that I still want him, which is very hard when you don't see or talk to him and you don't know what kind of response your letters are getting. I'll be back on after church. <P>------------------<BR>di<P>

Hi Diana,<P>I think you are on the right track in giving him an option that will free him from his dependancy on OW. You have extended the olive branch, so to speak. I pray that you do get some type of response from him. <P>BUT, should you hear nothing back, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, let your son leave him the message on the answering machine. Because, if he DID read your letter, and chose not to respond, well then, you will be seen as PUSHING (and trying to control him). If he didn't get your letter, & your son invites him along & he goes, then you will have the opportunity to extend that olive branch verbally.<P>Remember what Harley wrote about the healthy Interdependant relationship: <P>"One person meets a need in exchange for the other person meeting their need. <P>Neither of us feel controlled by each other because we are interdependent. In an interdependent relationship, we meet each other's needs in an even exchange."<P>Neither of us are in a position right now to create an Interdependant relationship because our H's have moved out. But, we have to get across to them (through our actions) that this is what we want. And, that we're willing to give them the space, trust or whatever's necessary so that they can contribute in an equal exchange to the relationship. I guess what I'm trying to say, is, measure your actions first and see if he will be able to reciprocate in kind. Because if he can't then you are creating an environment of dependance in which he will feel controlled. I know this is really tough. It takes a tremendous amount of self restraint. We don't want to watch them crash and burn. Last night, I tried to introduce the topic of important emotional needs, & asked my H what he felt was his most important need right now. His response was, "Security, as I have no safety net right now." My first inclination was to reassure him by telling him that I would help him out financially if need be. But, I stopped myself dead in my tracks. You know why? Because, in knowing he couldn't reciprocate, I would be creating an environment of dependance. Not healthy!! So I said nothing, just listened, & tried to reassure him by doing so.<P>Anyway, sorry this is so long. I will now step down from the soapbox!

It is not too long look at my post if you want long.<P>Problem in letting son call H. S will not do it. No, not for that reason. S does not like to talk on the phone at all. He has trouble hearing on the phone and will only talk on it if it is a life and death situation or computer problems. H knows this, so when he tell s to let him know H means me. That is why if I call I will call when I know they are at work so he won't have to talk to me. Just leave a short message as to the time and that is it. If he sees this as being pushy well I guess I have to take that chance. I have thought a lot of about this phone call. I still am just not sure that he is getting all his mail. Anyway this is a decision I don't have to make for a week anyway. Maybe I will hear from him. OR maybe he will call D. Who knows it is really hard waiting. I always had problems on Christmas' Eve I never could go to sleep because I had so much trouble waiting for Santa to come. I was always the first one up usually would check to see if he came then would crawl back to bed and wait for day light so I could wake up my sisters and brother so we could all wake up our parents. Not very good a waiting. YUCK!!!!!<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

Diana,<P>I know what you mean about Christmas eve, & Santa!! I was the same way. Both, my sister, & I would stumble around in the dark with flashlights after we heard all the commotion stop (parents putting out packages). We were lucky if we got 30 minutes sleep all night.<P>Waiting is so hard. Patience is hard. But, here's my new motto:<P>"Love is patient. Love is kind. Love always wins."<P>Think positive!!