I am completely new to this site and chat rooms in general, but I am truly hoping there are others out there that have experienced similar situations and can share insight and advise. <P>My husband and I have been growing apart for several months now. Three months ago he told me he was not in love with me any more, felt we had grown apart and wasn't sure he wanted to stay in the relationship. He agreed for us to work on it and a month later a heated discussion about this subject resulted in his leaving for the night. He said we were too overly emotional to continue the discussion that night and he would return to talk after work the next day. He did and again said he would stay and work on the marriage. We have one child togther, under the age of 10. We are in our mid 30s, have been married 15 years and until this distance began about 6 months ago, I had no idea we were in this deep of trouble. We have shared a week long family vacation and weekend trips after he returned home. I thought we were making some progress during this time, even though I have always questioned if he is involved with someone else from the begining. Last night, with our child away for the night, I ask if we could talk about where we stand now. That conversation resulted in his confession that he has been "talking" to another worman for "several months". He previously denied he was involved with anyone else and continued to profess last night that this was only conversation and he had never touched her physicially. He questioned me if I regarded this as an affair and would I ever trust him again. I don't know my honest answers to these questions. I love him, my family and our marriage as much as I ever have. But, based on his previous denial that there was no one else involved, I don't know if I should believe this is "only conversation". <P>I truly want my marriage to work out and the discussion last night ended with him saying he wanted a relationship like we had years ago when we were "crazy in love" and that there wouldn't be anyone else tagging along (as in the other woman). But I don't know to trust his statements and if I will be able to work on the relationship without doubts of continued infidelity. It is such a ego crusher for your husband to say the only reason he thinks he is home right now is because of the child !!<P>Please help with any ideas...can I believe this is only converation between him and the other woman and he will commit to really working on the marriage?

Heartbreak,<P>The answer is yes, there are many here in your situation. Rest assured that not only can you get your trust back you can make your marriage much better. I would recommend you do several things for yourself first. <P>1. Go to NSR's or Onegoing's posts and read the material with in them. I know NSR has bookmarked many articles that you might find of use to you and your H when he is ready. This posts are located in the "Just Found Out" section which is where you have posted. Look below your post.<P>Especially read about Plan A as well as His Needs Her Needs. <P>2. This last statement leads me to suggest that you buy two books both by Harley one is His Needs Her Needs and the second is Surviving an Affair.<P>You H has had what is termed here an emotional affair, EA. It is serious as in a physical affair, PA. However, what you need to remember is that you are not at fault of his affair. He get sole responsibillity for that one. However, you are responsible for the state of the marriage before the affair, or at least half of it. <P>The first book has a plan for determining what each of you is getting and not getting from the marriage, and what you NEED to get. So read it first. The second book talks about how to recover from an affair, and build a better marriage.<P>Finally, read in the other posts in other sections. Ask questions, and make comments you will learn a lot.<P>It seems to me your H does want to rebuild the marriage and I think you do as well. The trust issue will be with you for sometime, but you need to understand that if he has come to you and stated what he has then deep down he wants YOU as his W. Be there for him.<P>Read, post, and ask questions.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Heartbreak25130,<BR>A year ago I was in the same place you are now. I had learned that my H was having lunches with a co manager of his plant. These had been ongoing for a year then. <BR>H insisted that it was business only that neither of them was inclined to get personal. <BR>They had a couple business trips, two overnights, and many lunches. <BR>I was dealing with the hurt of secret lunches and just recently found out that it was an affair, PA, all along. There have been so many lies that recovery has had to start over again. <BR>My H lied so much (and this is not like him at all) right up until the day he confessed, he had only kissed her once and apologized and that was the end. The next day he told me he had tried again the next night and the affair was on. She had expected him to initiate, just didn't know when. <BR>I have written the details so many times that I won't go into it now. Just be very aware that you instincts are usually correct, mine were, though I was deep in denial. <BR>There is much help here and the books suggested are a blessing. Read and post, you are among friends. LAD

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Just Learning:<BR>[B]Heartbreak,<P><BR>JustLearning,<BR> Thank you so much for the reassuring words, I will truly take your advice. Yesterday when I found this site, I printed all of the articles from the infidelity section and began reading them as soon as I got home. My daugther was on her 2nd night of a sleepover, so I continued reading and found great info before my H got home. I picked up from the articles that he was having a EA and I feel much better this am, after reading that you agree. He and I went out to dinner last night and continued our talk about our situation. <P>He is floored that I did not rant and rave, slap his face and kick him out when he told me. I think that is one reason he hasn't told me before, he thought that as soon as he was completely honest it would never trust him again and our marriage would be completely over. So as long as he continued to deny anyone else was involved, he could continue to work out his confusing feelings on his own. I do believe him that he doesn't know how he feels or how this is going to turn out between us. He has previously refused professional counseling, but I did tell him of this site and some of the info I read and I think he will read some parts as well. And that will be a start.<P>It was a good night out and even though the conversation was on a terrible subject, it was great to share and talk with him again. I explained to him about a EA vs PA and that our marriage will only succeed if he makes a life break with this other woman and committs to our marriage. I am fearful that he isn't completely there yet, as he made a few comments that I am the one that needs to change, he doesn't see the he needs to. I told him, in regards to the marriage we both need to meet each other needs, but the EA is all his mess to clean up. He agreed with that in words, but I will hold out to see that his actions back that up. <P>I remain hopeful and though LAD has also reminded me to keep an open, observing eye on the situation, I think for us to begin again I must believe his statements, as he told me last night "I have now told you everything".<P>I know this is going to me a terrible, long hearbreaking road, but I so appreciate your response and suggestions! I will take your advice. I will continue to read and post.<P>Thanks so much,<BR>Heartbreak25130

HB,<P>You have gotten the golden clue right here. You said <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I am fearful that he isn't completely there yet, as he made a few comments that I am the one that needs to change, he doesn't see the he needs to. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>What he is suggesting without knowing it is that you use Plan A. If you have read here, then you know that Harley suggests doing something that is very against most peoples instincts. When an affair is discovered instead demanding the wayward spouse start changing, accusing the spouse, and laying a guilt trip on them, he suggests that you look inward and evaluate where you have failed the marriage and change those things. If you can determine the needs of the wayward spouse (WS), the meet those needs.<P>The idea is that in their confusion they are looking at the illusion of a happy life with OP, vs. what they had before. What they had before may have been good but it wasn't good enough to keep them from straying. In other words something was wrong. The purpose of Plan A is to show the WS that things can be better at home, that you accept your role in the marriage and its failures, and finally that it is safe to come home (emotionally and/or physically).<P>You have done part of this well. But obviously you were doing some things that really bothered your H. If you can figure these out, and are willing to change do so. Show him that you are willing to make a better marriage.<P>I know this is tough. You are the one hurt here. It seems soooo unfair. But understand something your H is hurt as well. What he did was wrong, but more than likely he did it for a reason. You were part of that reason. You will also find if your read here that the WS that does come back to the marriage pays their price on the back end of recovery. The guilt, the loss of self-respect, the loss of your trust and very very hard to deal with.<P>Rest assured there is no free lunch in the deal.<P>So read up on plan A and give it a whirl.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

JL,<BR> Thanks again for the encouraging, understanding and honest words. I have been thinking of printing my message with all replys and letting my H read it...still not too sure about that though.<BR> I will take your advice and read the Plan A as soon as I get home today. I had already printed it after your 1st message suggested it. I appreciate you adressing my H's statement of "no need to change". I didn't know if I should take that as a sign of his resistance to fix this mess, but you have helped clear that up for me. <BR> I do know I have contributed to the failing of our marriage and have tried to convince my H that I am committed to do ANYTHING to repair it -- perhaps as I implement Plan A it will help him to see that I am backing it up with actions. <BR> Please know how greatful I am for your continued response. I really felt good about all this this am, but I made the mistake of mentioning it to a co-worker. They were understanding, but very negative to my decision to believe that the OW was an EA only -- nothing physical yet. I agree, it is hard to belive (with my mind) that a man is considering leaving his family after only emotional involvement, but I again feel that I must believe him now (while still keeping an open mind). So after that conversation with my co-worker I was feeling pretty down and questioning the prospect of a sucessful outcome. So I thank you for your response.<BR> I do have a question for you if you wouldn't mind to answer. I printed the Emotional and Recreational Questionaires and was planning on asking my H for he and I to complete them this weekend. One of his major complaints is that I no longer share the same interests as he and we don't participate in activities together as we once did. Well, now I question if we are ready for that step yet. It might be answered for me when I read Plan A, but I wonder if I should show him my interest in fixing our marriage by inventoring our differences and likenesses? Or should I wait until I have true belief that he has made a complete break from the OW and is committed to fixing our relationship?? Please send advice if you have time.<P>Thanks again,<BR>HB

HB,<P>You asked: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> It might be answered for me when I read Plan A, but I wonder if I should show him my interest in fixing our marriage by inventoring our differences and likenesses? Or should I wait until I have true belief that he has made a complete break from the OW and is committed to fixing our relationship?? Please send advice if you have time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, HB you have asked a very profound question. Many of the answers will be found in reading about Plan A. But let me start with just a bit of a lecture. If you read many of the articles here and in other books, one of the things people are saying indirectly is being completely missed.<P>Typically, people don't pay a lot of attention to their marriage. When they decide to do so for whatever reason, the go into or for that matter remain in what I would call "linear thinking" mode. If he does this, then I will do this, then he seeing that will do... <P>The problem as Harley and others point out, is that needs are not really met in this manner. The marriage is a series of reactions instead of a series of actions that show love and respect.<P>What Harley is proposing by using Plan A, is that you get out of the linear thinking. That you look at yourself and see if there are somethings that need changing in your way of doing things. Often, your H's expressed dissatisfactions or your knowledge of what he found attractive in his interactions with the OW are good keys. <P>Once you have done that assessment, act on it. Don't wait for the he'll do this, I'll do this stuff. Act on it and make the changes you feel necessary to correct the things you feel you did wrong in the marriage. What Harley knows is that the response will be nonlinear. At first the spouse may ignore the changes, or be confused by them, or feel extraordinaty guilt. Often they cannot bring themselves to meet your needs. But the idea is to continue.<P>Gradually, the WS will heal, see the changes and often start to change themselves. Sometimes there is a hugh breakthrough and you see enormous changes in a short period of time, other times is by baby steps. Often the WS will not apologize, but their actions say they want the marriage.<P>Now, the other thing Plan A recommends is to show your WS love. If you feel love for him, through the pain, give him the love. Now the normal thinking would be to punish him, but HB, if you do a good Plan A and he wants to make the marriage work, he will be punished. In fact, you will find that the biggest impediment to recoverying your marriage will be him punishing himself through his guilt.<P>It all sounds counter intuitive doesn't? It is not if you realize most people stray for a reason. It is not an excuse, it is a REASON. If the two of you can figure out the reason or reasons and through the use of the Policy of Joint Agreement (something else you should read about), POJA, decide on how to address these things then your marriage can become something far better than you ever had.<P>HB, in summary change the only person you can change, yourself. Then trust that your H will see and make his changes. It is not a linear process, it is very nonlinear.<P>So did I answer your question? I think I did. Don't wait to do the right thing. Don't wait to love your H. And finally, you will come to the issue of forgiveness. It will come but you will learn something I learned a few years ago reading here, and seems to be so true. Your ability to forgive will come when you realize your forgiveness is a gift you give yourself. He may ask for it or he may not, but you will find that as you heal that the act of forgiveness will make YOU feel much better.<P>Hope this helps.<P>God Bless,<P>JL<P>PS: If you go to the General Questions section you will get more responses. It is a bit more active a section.<BR>

HEARTBREAK<P>I am in my 3rd week of plan A and so far it is working. My H also had affair with co worker, still says "just friends". They also share lunches and talk. We also had a child under 10. Have been married 10 years. July 27 was 10 years. Do what plan A says. It is hard, you will think you can not make it, keep to it. Don't try to believe your H. You will find out things that hurt deeply. You will cry and that is ok. Get it out. I do alot of screaming and talking to myself in the car alone. My H has not told me he wants to stay together and work on our marriage but sometimes his actions tell me this. He is showing me no affection. This really hurts. But don't take it personally. I do feel in time he will come around. Hang in there and keep us posted.<P>lots of love

JL,<BR> Thank you SO much for the lecture. I didn't have the net this weekend, so I was bitting at the bit to see what responses were waiting for me today. I don't think I can ever convey the help and support I have found on this site and through your responses. It seems destiny to me that the 1st site I hit in an open web search of the word "affair" would lead me to the place that I think will be my salvation from this madness, whether my H & I work this out or not. <BR> I read articles from this site, including Plan A for over 5 hours Sat am (while my H had to work). I have re-read Plan A about 3 more times since. I do think that is the plan for me to follow at this time. I really think I was putting Plan A to work even before I had read it. When my H told me about the affair, my response to him (he has since told me) was quite suprising (to me to). I think I had suspected for so long that I when heard the words I felt vendicated in a way. All the wondering, suspectful, questioning thoughts I have been having for months were validated. I wasn't crazy! So when he confirmed it, I remained very calm, I did cry some during the conversation, but I even told him I understood how he could stray. I have told him there have been times I have had a fleeting interest in other men, but the circumstance were not there for me to stray - I continued to be happy with my marriage. However, when another person showed interest him my H, and his circumstance included that he wasn't happy at home, he was much more vulnerable and chose the path of an affair. It has happened, I can't change that but there is a role that I played in this happening to our marriage. And I am willing to work on myself. I am looking at it now, that even if my marriage doesn't survive as a result of me working to improve myself, at least I will be a better person when the marriage is over. So I think Plan A is within me and I will do my best to continue with it. <P>My H and I have always been a little sarcastic with one another (as a joking way of communication) and when small things would be said this weekend I would catch myself not taking "little digs" at him when there was an open chance to do so -- Plan A at work Ha! Ha!. <P>He has much stress from his job and that often comes home with him (one of the reason I didn't pay attention to the signs earlier -- I thought his stress and distance were work related and would pass when the learning phase of his new position ended). This weekend was no exception for his work related stress to be in our household, his company called several times with different problems yesterday and an issue developed that he felt he would get called into the office of his boss about today. So I put Plan A into effect and expressed to him how I thought he was doing the best job he new how, etc. Where before I may have said the same but, at some point, also added "love bustering" negative statements that they shouldn't be calling with these problems while he is off work, at home, he shouldn't bring this stress home with him, etc.<P>I must say Plan A isn't easy to keep up with, it is difficult to not question, doubt and lash out when I feel hurt, but I will do my best -- for myself and my family.<P>I received another response from "Still Love Him" that sounds like she is a soul-sister, as she is 3 weeks ahead of me with the same issues and problems!!! This is a wonderful place to feel there are others in my same situation!!<BR>Thanks again,<BR>HB

Still Love Him,<BR> I am so glad you responded -- you sound like my soul-sister !!! You and I sound as if we are living the same life (aka agony). <BR> I really hope Plan A will help my H and me and in a some way I think it will - but I think it will really be good for me. Do you feel better about yourself that you are making an effort to be a better person, even in light of such hearbreak and agony???<BR> I have been hurt that my H hasn't said he is sorry for the affair. He has said he is sorry that he hurt me, but not that the affair happened. Sounds like you are in the same boat too.<BR> I have really been afraid to mention the affection part of my marriage. But, that is one reason I feel that his "affair" is more than an EA and is a PA - we haven't been intimate in a couple of months now and before that was so few and far between I wouldn't even really count it. There is no affection between us now - an occasional glance with a look &/or smile that used to mean something of interest, but nothing more - a very seldom kiss on the cheek. I often wonder if I took those glances (or chances) further, would they develop into something more. But at the same time, I am afraid of the rejection if he would refuse me and I have the question - Does that would make it just sex and not an act of love? I don't know what to do about that problem !!!<BR> You mentioned that I shouldn't believe my H and there will be things I found out that will hurt so deeply. I have been strugling with that too. He was very encouraging of me to ask questions the last time we really discussed this. When in the Plan A phase, can I continue to ask questions about his relationship with the OW and how he feels about our relationship/me/family, etc or is that against Plan A? I have made a list of different questions I think I would like the answers to. One question my H ask me during our last talk was, what do I think it would be like if we did divorce? I took that as a negative - that he was not looking at us positively. I ask him what he thought it would be like and he said he had no idea. I have changed my mind on this question since then and decided I should have answered what I think this could be like. --what he would miss of our daughter growing up, when she begins to date and drive a car, holidays, family vacations, school and sport activities, a different home and financial change for both of us, etc. My H really doesn't have any friends - that has been one of our problems - and so I don't think he has anyone to bounce his questions off of - that is what he used to do with me. So I think that was what he was doing with that question - really asking me what I thought, because I think he realizes the OW wouldn't be able to give him an honest answer to that question, since she has never seen he and I together.<BR> Please keep writing, I feel we have so much in common. Keep up with good work you are doing with Plan A and hope I can do as well as you.<BR> Thanks again for responding !!<BR>Heartbreak25130

HB,<P>You made some comments in your reply to SLH that I thought I would respond to. One of the things that is very hard but very effective while in plan A is to become your H's best friend. You discuss the divorce question and I believe you have it right. Answer him as best you can without LB's. If you become your H's best friend, he will be able to open up to you about the affair.<P>Now, mark my words this really is painful, contact KAM318 (I am not sure of the remaining numbers), she did this. Let her H cry and talk on her shoulder about how much he missed the OW. But, as time went on, he came to realize what a tremendous friend and what a tremendous woman she was. Her strength carried them for quite a time. So let H talk and do your best with the questions. Ask him and if he doesn't want to answer don't pressure him. He will in time.<P>Time and patience are the two biggest ingredients for healing a marriage. Plan A buys you that time without you losing your sanity. You asked about an apology, that will come in time, but Harley points out the verbal apology may not come at all. You will see by his actions. These by the way are much easier to believe than words right now.<P>I do believe you are right Plan A is for you. It surely not for wimps. It is tough, but it will change you in ways you may not imagine, although you seem to have the tendencies and spirit of someone who finds it intuitively to be the correct approach.<P>Of all the advice I can give you, Time and Patience, (T&P) are the biggest things you can bring to the situation. Your H is talking with you and that is so good. But don't worry if he doesn't talk about the A so much. Just let him talk about whatever, because as he talks with you he will be starting to bond with you.<P>One last thing. Unless your H was completely without conscience (which I doubt), he had to convince himself that having the affair was justified. How did he do this?? Well, by convincing himself the marriage was not good, focussing on your bad habits/behaviors, by thinking you didn't love him, and finally by thinking the marriage over and your rage with him would be without bound.<P>Note, that Plan A address these things, counters them if you will. You are dealing with the ghosts in your H's head and they take time to defuse, so Plan A and give it plenty of T&P.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

JL,<BR> Again, you are a lifesaver with all the right words of encouragement. My H is talking with me, not as much as he used to "when it was solid" between us, but it is coming along. I am pleased with what I am getting now.<BR> I am trying to practice the Plan A concepts now. He is in a golf torn. with all division of his company in mid August and many of his co-workers are practicing as much as they can before then - or so this is the story I'm being told and I really do belive that for now. So when he told me he would be going to play this evening I ask no questions and am putting other scenarios out of my mind. I am trying and hopefully with time he will see that. <BR> I posted another question in the General section and the PlanA/PlanB section too....I would love your opinions on those questions. They asking what actions can I have during Plan A without being construed as being "pushy". <BR> I mentioned to you before that my H was so shcocked at my reaction to the initial new of the EA, well this weekend I mentioned to him that I would like to go and see one of the new movies that is coming out - it is an action film, VERY unlike me, but is a film he would choose. But this also has comedy and I really do think I would enjoy it and knowing the he would too is why I mentioned it. He again got a chuckle out of this and said "this isn't like you". I explained to him the reasons I just mentioned and his answer was "well we'll see". I think this is part of my Plan A corrective actions -- I used to be the "planner" of the two of us. I would plan the weekends away, dinner without child,etc. He always accepted and really still does, but I don't want to seem overly pushy. <P>Advice again please????<BR>Thank for the response,<BR>HB

Dear Heartbreak 25130,<BR>All I can add to the great posts you have already recieved is "hang on for the long haul" You have a good attitude, keep it , you are going to need it.<P>I am in the same situation you are in. 10 months ago I found out my H had a long distance EA with OW he met on the internet. He has insisted all along it never was a PA, even though they met one time. Most of the posts I received told me not to believe him that more than likely it was a PA. However a couple of positive posts encouraged me to believe in him and what he was telling me. It's true that you can't go wrong with trusting your gut feelings, but in your state of shock are your gut feelings trustworthy?<P>I have to admit I was suspicious. I wanted to know. I investigated everything I could just knowing I would find out something, but I never did. I can't say whether or not searching and finding nothing was better than not searching and not knowing. I can tell you this , even after my search was exhausted, I still wondered and I still do. But I cope with it better now. I will probably never know for sure, but my gut feeling tells me he didn't and my better judgement tells me that at this point it does'nt matter. The healing process is about the same even If he did.<P>The good news is that you are trying everything you can to do your part. That's important for your recovery. Keep up the good work. This is a good place for feed back. These guys are great. Don't give up, we've all been there!<BR><P>------------------<BR> <*)///><

Primrose,<BR> Thanks for the encouraging words !!! I believe in my gut that this is a PA - too many signals not to be - but I really don't want to knoe any more right now. I know it would be another shock to my system, but on the other hand, I wonder could it be anymore painful than the pain I already have !!<BR> I am constantly talking to myself to keep positive, take one day at a time, shrug off any slightly negative attitudes/feeling I pick up from my H. But I so want our marriage to work out for us and for our child. I am going to stick with Plan A as long as I can. <BR> Are you working with Plan A, have you been for the last 10 months??? How agreeable was you H ton reading the info from MB with you? Did you talk of the EA much? My H & I had "the confession conversation" for several hours last Wed evening and went to dinner and discussed at great length again the following evening. Since then there has been little to nothing mentioned. I would really like to talk with him again about this, but I won't discuss anything while our child is at home and I don't want to push him.<BR> I told him in the 1st conversation that the he must break the relationship with the OW immediately or our marriage would never start to mend. He agreed and at our last conversation at this past Thursday he had not yet told her (said he hadn't seen her). I had not yet read Plan A but had read the "way to end an affair", I told him how that articlesuggested to end an affair. Since then his schedule has provided him time to see her on 2 different occasions, but I haven't ask. <BR> I think it is a double edge sword - what if he tells me no he hasn't ended and if he says he has, will I belive him???<BR> Thanks again for your encouragement. You, like many others here, are such role-models to keep plowing through this mess. <BR> Hope to hear from you again,<BR>Heartbreak25130

HB,<P>One thing I may not have mentioned or did so in passing is that when in Plan A don't try to educate your spouse. It will be a big time LB for him, and it will drive you nuts in the process. <P>Plan A is for you to do, while your H figures out what he wants/needs to do. I know, I know it doesn't sound right, but you are not going to be able to "reason" with him, until he commits to rebuilding the marriage. When he does that then suggest that he might like to do some reading. <P>I am sure I have recommended this to you, but I will repeat get Surviving an Affair by Harley and read it. Once your H comes out of this and wants to rebuild offer it to him to read. He will see that he isn't unique, and you will find that affairs are not that unique and they do respond to a certain approach. Harley does a much better job describing the approach than we can here.<P>But mostly Plan A and give it plenty of Time and Patience.<P>T&P, repeat after me, T&P. <P>Have a good day and God Bless,<P>JL

JL,<BR> Again, thanks so much for encouraging me 1st thing in the am !!! T/P has a whole new meaning for me now = time and patience !!! I will say it over to myself several times a day !! I can understand from you that I really need the book to fully understand Plan A and I will get it. <BR> I have mentioned very little to my H in the way of the concepts from MB, but I will not mention any others now and just work on myself. I did have an "a-ha" moment yesterday. It really hit me what it means to "work on myself" with Plan A. My H and I have always done everything together !! Even though I am generally a very confident person, I have always had reservations in going to a new event/place, somewhere new/different on my own. So I have always held back and generally only gone if he goes with me. Well, last night he had a golf date and my daugther received a last minute call to a pool party with a family I hadn't met before and at a center I hadn't been to before. He and I discussed it and he said it was the 4th person in the 4-some and really couldn't back-out of the golf game (for political reason of work) and I understand that. So I put my Plan A at work and told him I didn't mind to take our daughter and go, it would be fun for her and I both. And it was !! On the way there, I was being a little sad that we all weren't together and then it hit me -- "a-ha, this is the type of changes I need to make for myself. Show my husband that I am willing to changing and do so to better myself - whether the marriage survives or not". So I would say yesterday was a break through day for me. And my H and I got along nicely when he got home as well. <BR> So thanks again for the encouragement. I know that there are going to be terrible days ahead and I will tell myself to think T&P, T&P...I remain hopeful !!!<BR>Heartbreak25130