My W of 24 years appears to having an affair on me. Although, I have no absolute proof.......Things are getting weird, and I need help coping and knowing what to do!<P>This is long...<P>Let me begin by telling you guys that I have had a wonderful marriage up until a year or two ago, when things began to slide down hill. I admit that there was a lot of negativity happening, and most of it was my fault. I became very selfish and self centered with problems with my job, I had a heart attack in December of last year, wrecked my car, my motorcycle, had another heart surgery this last April, and our sex life has been in the toilet. I become very angry at times with my W, and have snapped at her a lot. In addition, I have been depressed about my heart desease. <P>I have always been deeply in love with my W, and always thought that, even though our marriage hasn't been wonderful lately, she would always be by my side. She is very shy and submissive, but always seemed to be full of love for me.<P>June 1, 2001, at around 6:30 P.M., she came into our den to me to tell me that she has never been "in love" with me, and she wanted to start looking for an apartment tomorrow! Well, as you can imagine, I was floored! I looked at her with complete disbelief on my face, and said, "WHAT?!!" <P>She told me that she loved and cared for me, but that she has never felt as though she has ever really been "in love" with me. I asked her what she meant by "In Love" as opposed to loving me. She said she has never felt an intimate relationship w/ me, and/or an attraction to me. She said that there was no "Spark" in her heart, and there has never been one! <P>I begged her to stay, and told her that we could work this out. I asked her to go to marriage counseling w/ me, and she agreed to stay and give it "a try". <P>After about 2 weeks of complete panic (on my part) I noticed that there were many things different about my W. One thing was that she wore much more perfume than normal. She was buying bra's from Victoria's Secret. She took longer in the mornings getting ready for work, making herself pretty. She was excercising more, and concerned more with how she looked. I became spicious.........<P>One Saturday about a month ago, she told me that she was going to go for 'a drive'. She said that she just needed some "Alone" time to herself. Well, that day at 4 in the afternoon we were having a birthday party for my daughter at a bowling alley on the other side of town, so we had to leave the house at 4 to get there to meet all of our guests. So, I told my W to not be late getting home. She promised she wouldn't be late, and left the house at about 1:45P.M. At 3:45 she had still not returned, so I called her on her cell phone. She didn't answer, so I left her a voicemail to call me ASAP. At 3:55, she called me and said that she was on her way. I asked her where she was, and she said that she was driving in the upper valley (5 Minutes from our house) and would be home by 4. She didn't arrive until 4:10P.M.! I said, "What took you so long?" She just said, "I'm sorry, but I just was thinking about things, and lost track of the time. Boy, it's hot outside!" She was sweating and appeared to be a little red in the face. This made me think that this is a little weird, because she has air conditioning in her car, and after over 2 hours of driving, wouldn't she be cool?<P>Anyway, I decided that too many red flags are appearing. She would call me at 4:30P.M. almost every other day to tell me that she had to run errands for her company after work, and she would be a little late, and so on... <P>So, I decided to do a little snooping. I checked her cell phone bill, and found multiple calls to another cell phone, as well as multiple incoming calls and voicemails for the last 3 months! (NOTE: 3 calls were made to this number that Saturday that she took her long "Drive". 2 were made before she left the house for 1 minute each, and the third was for 3 minutes after she had left the house!)I called the cell number that she had made so many calls to, and a man's voice came on. I asked, "Who is this?" The man replied, "This is K*&Y W**%^. Who is this?" I made up a name and apollogized for dialing the wrong number and hung up. <P>I decided to confront my W to see what she had to say. So, I asked her into our bedroom and closed the door. I said, "W, who did you call yesterday from your phone, when you went on your drive?" She said, "No one. I don't think I called anyone. I don't remember. Why?" I said, "Who is K^*^7 W*&^&??" She said, "I don't know who that is. Why are you asking me all of these questions?!" I said, "You don't know who this guy is, yet you've been calling him almost every day for over 3 months?! You can't remember whether you made a call or not just yesterday to him?! Do you think that I'm an idiot? What's going on?"<P>With that she became furious! She screamed, "I don't have any privacy anymore! You have violated me! I'm not going to live like this anymore! I want a divorce!" I said, "Fine. But, tell me the truth before you leave. Who is K&*&* W(*(*&??" She said, "He's just a friend. We talk from time to time on the phone, but there is NO affair going on!" <P>Well, after a long fight, I convinced her to stay with the promise that she would not lie to me again. She promised she wouldn't. <P>As time went on, she still was calling him from time to time, and she was still getting a lot of incoming calls and voicemails. (my W doesn't have many friends, and all of them call her at home. Not on her cell!) I told her to stop talking to him! I said, "If you want our relationship to work, you have to break contact with him!" She said she didn't understand why, but that she would tell him not to call her anymore.<P>Well, the following morning she called me and said, "I just wanted you to know that he called me, and I told him not to call me anymore and then hung up on him. OK?" I said, "OK. Thanks." <P>What my W didn't know was that I had our home phone tapped. When my W went to bed that night, I decided to listen to her calls. Right after she called me to tell me that she had broken ties w/ this guy, she called a friend of hers to see if she could use her cell phone to make a call. She was crying at the time, and said that she thinks that our home phone was bugged. She talked about how controlling I was, how I have her under lock and key, how i think she is having an affair, etc... She was asked by her friend if she was having an affair, and she said, "No. Of course not! But, I can't really talk, because I think the phone might be bugged." <P>In addition to this she told me she had a job interview the next day at a company close to our house. (Oh, I didn't mention that she was laid off from her job, did I?) Anyway, she said that they had called her at home and told her to come in at 2:00P.M. People....There was no such phone call!<P>I decided to play along, and the next day my daughter told me that she had left for her interview at 1:40P.M. I began calling her at 3:00P.M. on her cell phone, but it was turned off. Finally, she called me at 4:30P.M. And, told me that the interview was very long, and they had her take a test, etc... <P>I decided to give her the benefit of the doubt, because I thought maybe they called her on her cell? So, I asked my W who she talked to, and she gave me a name. I called the company and introduced myself as being the H of my W, and the reason I was calling was that I believe my W left her Portfolio there, etc... Well, there was the person there whom she named, but he said he was the husband of another friend of hers, and he hadn't seen her in weeks!<P>I confronted my W again about all the lies. She said, "No, I didn't have an interview! I went to a *** restaurant to be alone to think. I told you a lie, because I knew you would be upset if I told you I needed some alone time again!" <P>Then, I confronted her about calling the OM from her friend's cell phone after she told me she wouldn't talk to him again. She said, "Well, I just felt so bad about the way I just hung up on him, that I had to call him back to apollogize. But, I didn't even get in touch w/ him! How did you know all of this?!! Are you bugging our house, having me followed, watching me take a sh*t?!! I will not live this way! You are so jealous! Why are you doing this to me?!!" <P>We fought again for about 4 hours! I cried and cried, because I just couldn't believe that my W could lie to me like that! She seemed to feel bad for me and comforted me the whole time I was crying. We agreed to both be honest w/ each other from now on, and I told her that I would un-tap the phone. I told her that if she were having an affair, there is nothing I can do about it anyway. She swears that there is no affair going on, and never has been! <P>Things right now are OK, but I still don't trust her, and I check up on most of her interviews just to be sure she is not somewhere else, and is telling me the truth! One day last week, she wasn't at home, and wasn't answering her cell phone. I panicked, and continued to call and call! Finally, she called me back and said that she was at the mall, and couldn't here her phone. When she got home, I checked to see what she bought at the mall and checked the "Time Stamps" on the receipts. And, she was at the mall when I was trying to call her. But, it was a major LB, and ended in another fight!<P>She seems to be telling me the truth now, but I can't get over the pain of all the lies, and I'm not sure if she is having an A. I don't know if it's a PA or an EA. But, I think something is going on. Am I crazy? Could she NOT be having an A? <P>Currently, I am Plan A'ing my a** off! I'm trying to stay cool and calm. I'm trying to show her affection, and how much she is loved. We have both filled out the ENQ's and are trying to fulfill each other's needs. But, I keep LB'ing!! I can't get her to say that she wants our marriage to work. All she will give me is that she is "Willing to try". That's it! No commitment. She says she can't commit to anything that she doesn't feel! <P>What can I do? I love her more than my life! I want to do all the right things, but I keep pressuring her and this is destroying us! Please, someone give me some advise! Thanks, in advance! <P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HurtTired:<BR><B>My W of 24 years appears to having an affair on me. Although, I have no absolute proof.......Things are getting weird, and I need help coping and knowing what to do!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>"Appears"? There's your problem, Vern. From your post, she most definitely IS having an affair. Like most affairees (aka adulterers), you're being lied to left and right. You probably can't spin around in time to dodge the next. You have to face that before you can handle the rest.<BR>She certainly isn't going to help ya. Read what you can on this site, especially posts like "things wayward spouses say". You will hear your wife speaking. I swear!!! I heard mine.<P>On to the battle. <P>You have to decide if you want the marriage to continue.<BR>You have to decide if you can face the worst.<BR>You have to decide if she can face the worst (for someone has to catch them when they fall out the clouds).<BR>You have to cover your butt.<BR>You have to cover your children's butts (if you have kids).<P>You, Betrayed Spouse, have to do most if not all of the work. You get to be a doormat for a while. <P>Get some antidepressants!<BR>Get some counselling!<BR>Smell the roses![ Have a beer! It's football season. ]<BR>Fix that motorcycle!<P>Good luck, it's a long road.<BR>Bob

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BamaAngst:<BR>[B] "Appears"? There's your problem, Vern. From your post, she most definitely IS having an affair. <P>BA: Thanks, I think? I really don't want to believe that she is having an A, but if it looks like a duck.........<P>Anyway, How can I get her to admit it to me? What can I do to stop it? Really would appreciate the info. Thanks. <P>HT

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HurtTired:<BR><B>Thanks, I think? I really don't want to believe that she is having an A, but if it looks like a duck.........<P>Anyway, How can I get her to admit it to me? What can I do to stop it? Really would appreciate the info. Thanks. <BR>HT </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Here's the hard part: You cannot stop it. Stopping it causes it to continue. You must let the affair die a natural death. Odds are, it will. That's what this website is about: teaching the betrayed spouse (btw, that's you) to survive and improve themselves [plan A] so that the wayward spouse (your wife) eventually realizes the grass is still green at home, just currently under-watered.<P>Ok, ok, maybe you can stop it. You can move to the other side of the planet. That MIGHT work. It is not a sure thing.<P>Getting her to admit it? Don't know if it's wise to roast her over the coals. It'll just "prove" to her that you're the whole problem (which is what she is trying to do to justify the affair).<P>It's wierd, but ask yourself what you'd accomplish with a signed confession? Would you be able to strut around town, waving it about? Lord it over her at the dinner table? Plaster it to your forehead before work every morning? <P>Except for a few states, "adultery" means squat to a divorce judge. They'll look at you and say, "Ok, I guess you want a divorce". Which is why you would be in front of them in the first place. Judges just LOVE to state the obvious, in case you haven't noticed. ;-))))<P>If you tell her she's being a "bad girl", you'll be JUDGING her (which she'll say is why she did it in the first place).<P>If you force her to quit seeing her "lover", you'll be CONTROLLING her (which she'll say is why she did it in the first place).<P>Hell, I was told I was a monster for reading a book (Tom Clancy) on the beach. Insanity!<P>Basically, you have to suck it up, become a better person, and calmly (as calmly as possible) watch this bizarre little tornado go spinning about your living room. Your wife will pop out soon enough. Be there to catch her.<P>Been there, done that, she's back, for good I hope.<P>Bob

HT,<BR>I totaly agree, she is definitely having an affair. I think you are on the right track.<BR> To get the proof you could hire a PI to follow her or investigate yourself, but this could turn out to be a huge LB. I don't know if it is the right time to confront her with the trueth only you would know how she would react. You could call her bluff, but that could turn on you and really push her away. You could call the OM if you kept the number and call his bluff this could also turn on you. In any case if you decide to keep digging, be ready for the worst, I know the suspicion hurts but confirmation hurts about 10 times more, at least thats how I felt.<P> I think Plan A is the way to go, but I don't know if digging for the truth is a good idea while in plan A. <BR>Good luck, and stick with plan A as long as you can.E

Thank you all for your comments. I am pretty sure that I agree w/ both of you as to what to do. I do believe that I probably don't want to know anymore than I already know, because I probably couldn't deal with the pain of knowing for sure. I am hoping that this is not a PA, becasue the W and I are still having sex. I don't want a STD!! <P>I have wondered about whether or not I should stay away from her? Do you think that would help? She says that I am smothering her! Maybe I should go out more often with friends to the bars, etc.. I noticed that one night after we had a fight, I went out with a friend to a bar, and she called me 3 times telling me she was concerned about me! This really made me feel good. I just have to be able to control my panics! When I can't reach her by phone, and/or don't know where she is, I go NUTS! <P>How do you deal w/ this kind of panic? I am already on anti-depressants and anti-anxiety meds, but I still freak out!<BR>Thanks for any advice!<P>HT

HT,<BR>I havn't been in your situation except; my wife did have a physical A and I did recognize at the time that she was. I wanted to believe the lies but the suspicion haunted me for four years when I finaly took steps to find the truth. The truth of what happened four years ago hurts like it happened yesterday. When I learned of the A it was long over.<BR>I have been reading on this sight for about three weeks and just became a junior member. I have read a lot. I would say try to do more with the wife, take her out to dinner, when she wants to go out offer to go with her, sound enthusiastic when you ask. Take small trips together try to have a good time and don't bring up the A. Did you read the article on the love bank if not read it, also read what love busters are. E

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HurtTired:<BR><B>I don't want a STD!! </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>No one does. Have you tried wearing a condom? Will<BR>probably serve to wake her up if, right before entry,<BR>you say, "Excuse me just a minute", hop up and put<BR>one on in the bathroom, jump back in bed and say,<BR>"Come here, beautiful!".<P>No judgemental comments, no anger, no resentment, just<BR>a matter-of-fact approach. "Just being safe, honey<BR>bunny." I'm grinning as I write this, BTW.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>I have wondered about whether or not I should stay away from her? Do you think that would help? She says that I am smothering her! </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Make her get on top, then. <P>Sorry - just an attempt at humor. You'll need that!<P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Maybe I should go out more often with friends to the bars, etc.. I noticed that one night after we had a fight, I went out with a friend to a bar, and she called me 3 times telling me she was concerned about me!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>But of course she did. She doesn't want to know that lifeline A (you) is gone. When my wife was in the throes of her affair, she told me that if I saw anyone else, it was over. This sh*t is unfair. You get to choose to go on or not. And it's still not fair. Sorry.<P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>How do you deal w/ this kind of panic? I am already on anti-depressants and anti-anxiety meds, but I still freak out!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Me too. Try long walks (I paced the neighborhood for hours), pushups, situps, valium, whatever it takes. I was doing 800-1000 situps a day during the worst of it. My two boys would hold my legs for me (there's some storybook bonding for you). <P>This was forced on you - you didn't choose it. Avoid massive amounts of alcohol. It won't help, just depress you.<P>Try to place yourself in a zen-like state of detachment. Be an observer. Participating in the madness will get you nowhere. You will be swarmed with irrationality.<P>If it truly is a physical affair [and it surely sounds like it], get ready for more. A lot of it is predictable - especially if you read a lot of stuff at this board. For example, if you plan A very well, and it starts to work, you'll get a call [I'd bet money] from the OM telling you all. That's because he'll start getting desperate. What you'll have to learn [and it was very hard for me] is that all these negatives you see can just as easily be spun into positives. Learn to do that and you'll be ok.<P>Take care of yourself. You can't win her back if you're not here!<P>Bob

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HurtTired:<BR><B>Thank you all for your comments.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Just read your other posts (via profile - messages).<BR>Three weeks since d-day. I won't lecture you anymore<BR>about plan-a, plan-b, plan-x. <P>Hang in there, dude. Scream at the walls - it <BR>works better than screaming at your wife.<P>Bob

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BamaAngst:<BR><B> Just read your other posts (via profile - messages).<BR>Three weeks since d-day. I won't lecture you anymore<BR>about plan-a, plan-b, plan-x. <P>Hang in there, dude. Scream at the walls - it <BR>works better than screaming at your wife.<P>Bob</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thanks, BA! New info for you....<P>Did some great Plan A'ing this weekend! NO LB's! Made the W feel real special! <P>Last night we had some GREAT SEX!!! I took a Viagra, and made her have a wonderful time in the sack! She really seemed to enjoy herself, and (Obviously) so did I! Point is....The OM had better really be a great lover if he wants to compete w/ me in the SF Department!!<P>Problem though...Every time I tried to kiss her while doing it, she would turn her face away. Is this normal for a WS? I told her things while making love, too. (I.E. It feels really good to be inside you. And, I love you so much!) There was no response from her, other than moaning. <P>How should I deal w/ this type of behavior? <P>[This message has been edited by HurtTired (edited August 06, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by HurtTired (edited August 06, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HurtTired:<BR><B>Last night we had some GREAT SEX!!! I took a Viagra, and made her have a wonderful time in the sack! She really seemed to enjoy herself, and (Obviously) so did I! Point is....The OM had better really be a great lover if he wants to compete w/ me in the SF Department!!<P>Problem though...Every time I tried to kiss her while doing it, she would turn her face away. Is this normal for a WS? I told her things while making love, too. (I.E. It feels really good to be inside you. And, I love you so much!) There was no response from her, other than moaning. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I never had that problem (her turning away). It was just the opposite - to cover the affair, she'd screw my brains out. Even when we were separated, she'd use sex to keep me hanging on. Guess I was "[censored]-whipped", but I didn't <BR>mind ;-))))<P>You might try a different approach for love chatter - talk about her. The OM was/is probably stroking her ego more than anything else [:-(((].<P>That is, instead of saying "You make me so hot", try "Oh god you're so beautiful", stroke her hair, rub her legs... <BR>A different way of saying the same thing but it seems to <BR>make a difference.<P>Oh, and shower/shave/cologne/floss. That's very important<BR>too.<P>Make any sense?<P>Bob

I'm feeling really down right now. My W called me and told me that she was taking my daughter and a friend to the movies, then she was going to the mall to get some panty hose. Said she needed more panty hose. Problem is...She just got panty hose a few days ago! And, I've asked her to always let me know where she is, or keeping her cell phone on, and answering it if I called. <P>She has now been gone for about 1 and 1/2 hours, and her phone is off, and I have a feeling where she is!!! I'm really pissed off! I will probably LB big time with her today!<P>Help me to keep my cool! How do I talk to her about what she has done to me today?? Please Help!!<P>HT <P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HurtTired:<BR><B>Help me to keep my cool! How do I talk to her about what she has done to me today?? Please Help!!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Don't talk to her about it. Walk around the neighborhood. Leave her a note saying you're walking. Don't go home pissed.<P>Bob<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BamaAngst:<BR><B> Don't talk to her about it. Walk around the neighborhood. Leave her a note saying you're walking. Don't go home pissed.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Too Late! I already blew it! She called me after 2 and 1/2 hours, and told me that her cell phone battery was dead, so she left it at home. I said, "Yeah, right! Sure....That sounds like a plauseable reason!" Well, she went ballistic! She started screaming at me saying, "You've got me on a leash! All I did was go to the mall to get some panty hose, and look around! I was only gone for an hour and a half, and you just panicked! I thought we were going to put the past behind us and move forward?!!" <P>After she blew her stack, I calmed down, and said, "W, you're right. I'm sorry for going into a panic. I just couldn't get in touch with you, and I lost my cool. You know that I told you it would take me some time to trust you again after all of the lies you have told me, and I just lost it when I couldn't get in touch! I'm sorry. Please, let's just forget about this, OK?" She said, "OK." <P>Well, you would think that would be the end of that right? <BR>WRONG!!<P>When I hung up the phone with her, I started thinking about the ugly scene that kept playing over and over in my mind! His d*&* inside her, kissing her, etc... I lost it!!<P>When I got home after work, I was very quiet. My W came up to me, give me a hug and a kiss, and asked, "What's wrong?" I told her, "Nothing. It's just me and my problem. Don't worry about it." <P>She continued to question me like she was paranoid that I knew more than I was telling, and this made me angry. So, I brought up all the stuff about the OM! It was like rubbing salt into the wound! We fought for hours! Bad LB on my part!<P>After all was said and done, I finally apologized to the W, and said my good nights to my W and D. <P>Today, I sent my W and D Flowers to say that I am sorry about last night. Hope it means something to them! <P>I feel like we had taken one step forward, and 10 steps backwards! She said she didn't want her cell phone anymore, because it was an un-necessary expense right now since she doesn't have a job. I said, "Yeah, that makes sense. Now you can be completely out of touch with me, so you and OM can spend all kinds of time together, huh?" (BAD, BAD!!) In addition, I told her that she must think that I'm really stupid to believe that she and OM are "Just Friends" after the fact that she called him every day, 8 to 10 times a day for 3 months! She just denies, denies, denies!<P>I told her that she is destroying my love for her, and that she is driving me away from her. Then, I told her that if her plan was to get me so upset over this that I would leave her, so she and OM could continue their relationship guilt free, then her plan was working! (BAD, BAD, BAD!)<P>I asked her, "When we made love last night...Did that mean anything to you? Did you feel anything at all?" She said, "Bryan, I don't want to hurt your feelings.....But, it was just sex for me. No, I didn't feel anything." I cried and cried over this. I told her that I know she felt something! She was so into it! I told her, "Last night was incredible for me, and I thought it was great for you too! But, now you tell me that I was making love, and you were just F*****g me?!!" (BAD, BAD, BAD! LB, LB, LB!)<BR> <BR>Well, the damage has been done. So, I guess that I will just have to start all over again on Plan A! I am having such a difficult time trying to stay focused! I told my W that I just want someone to love me, and if she couldn't, there are a lot more fish in the ocean that would and could! <P>Anyways.............<P>Back to the drawing board!! Thanks for all your advise, and please keep giving me the pep talks. It really helps!<P>HT <P><BR>