computer infidelity<BR>I have recently unexpectedly come upon some emails meant for my husband by another woman.<BR>She professes love for him, etc yet says she knows she cannot be with him.<BR>My husband gets on the chat lines and talks to other women. He says he doesn’t want to talk to men. <BR>8 years ago when I was pg another woman called and he talked to her. We had a huge fight about it and he said she was gay, he was counseling her, etc and he wouldn’t talk to her again.<BR>I just found out he still continues to email her and chat with her. I found out he redirected her to call him at work and at his work email. He says its just conversation, blah, blah, blah. He says he needs to have women compliment him and tell him he’s wonderful, etc…<BR>I don’t know how many other online women he has, its at least 4. Thus far, I truly believe they are all non-physical, BUT with his new recent job, he travels a lot.<BR> He has also recently told me I have 6 months to lose some weight or he will divorce me.<BR>We will be soon be married 19 years.. We have 3 beautiful children, and I have told him no matter what happens, he will be held accountable to continue to help raise these children and I don’t mean by throwing a check at me every month. I am a professional and able to support myself if need be, but I just quit my job recently when he got laid off and acquired this new, traveling job because it would leave my teen alone too much or the younger ones with a sitter for longer than is acceptable to us. That was a mututal agreement.<BR> I am joining a gym tomorrow and will truly work on losing the weight. I have asked him not to email and talk with these other women as it hurts our relationship. We attend a Bible church together and I am hesitant about talking to our wonderful pastor as they are radio buddies.<BR>I don’t feel I can talk to anyone else I know about this except one person who only visits this area twice a year. She will be here next week and we will only be able to commiserate. <BR> I really feel we can work this out. He says he wants to. I believed him when he said he wouldn’t communicate with the other woman eight years ago. We talked about it the other night and I don’t know what to tell him. I want to say STOP it…totally, but if he is going to do it anyway, maybe it would be better if he let me know who they are.. <BR> Once I opened a “chat log” which I thought was mine…..it was him and this scandanavian woman, he told her to call the house, anytime, his wife wouldn’t mind, etc….. WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!<BR> I don’t even know why he saved that chat log, maybe he wanted me to find out? I frequently save chat logs as I get on my direct selling business chats and save them for future editing and reference. That’s how I came across his as I thought it was one of mine.<BR> Needless to say, the trust has gone out of this marriage. I am very hurt and in shock. Half the time I want to scream at him and tell him to get lost but for the sake of our children and possibly our future together, I haven’t done that so I have withdrawn somewhat. I am just very confused. He asked me if I still loved him and I told him yes, but just really hurt by his activities. He can have s*x anytime he wants, that’s not an issue either. He says he just really enjoys talking to other women. I try fulfilling his needs, telling him how good he looks, compliments on his work, etc, but it really gets to be a chore when nothing I do seems to be good enough for him. He is home right now but will be going on a job shortly. Even when he is home, however, I catch him on the computer with other women. Last night he came up and said if it upset me, he’d stop, but he has told me that before and I told him we already had this conversation. What am I to do?<BR>I have been trying to read all the information on the main page and don't want to give up on this marriage but wonder if it'll ever work. Just sick.<BR>

Dear Mikkey,<P>I'm new here too. My husband did the same thing yours is doing. I'm the "he collected women online" post in General questions. I got some very helpful advice from more experienced folk if you want to go look. My H said all the same things about what he was doing. That he would stop if it bothered me, that it was just conversation, etc. It became more than that I know, and he broke promise after promise to stop for a long long time. The first time was four years ago, and lasted over a year. We went to marriage counseling where the male therapist told my H that if I (Jena) felt he was being unfaithful with these actions then what he was doing was having an affair. He had also told women to e-mail him at work instead, etc. It was sock in the stomach after sock in the stomach - and he just couldn't understand me being that upset. I know that my rage and despair did absolutely no good. That's the biggest thing I did learn ...<P>This last time he did it again it was slightly different circumstances - but the reasons are probably the same. Show your husband this article. <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5028_qa.html" TARGET=_blank>Infidelity on the Internet<BR>Letter #1</A> It helped my H finally open his ears to me. And try the emotional needs questionnaires also. They started my H back in the direction of building our marriage.<P>I'm frankly upset about your husband threatening divorce if you don't lose weight. I haven't been here long enough to hear that and not react angrily. My husband would never have said anything like that. (He does other distressing things, however!) It seems so low - as if your weight has <I>anything</I> to do with the state of your marriage. However, I guess the need for an attractive spouse is on the list of the Emotional Needs. Oh well.<P>Anyway, I'm a novice here. But these were life savers for me. Gave me new hope.<P>------------------<BR>Jena<BR>If you don't stand for <BR>something, you'll fall for <BR>anything

Hi Mikkey,<P>Oh those women... and our H's. Yep this on line stuff is a killer. My H went out there for attention also. He found lots of women willings to 'be friends'. Hm... actually more than that. Met a lot and this last one went EA/PA for almost 1 year. <P>I will ask another poster to see if she can come and help you. Her H was an emotional supporter. He is here today helping us understand both sides and he also posts at times. <P>I will also try to send the welcome package later tonight, unless someone else does it sooner. You have a right to be concerned. This is enough to break a marriage. <P>I will check back with you later. <P>Take Care,<BR>L. <BR>

Hi Orchid and Jenna<BR>Thanks for your reply to my post.<BR>I was in severe depression for awhile because I had found out about the other<BR>Online women, but not that he had continued this other 8 year thing after we had<BR>Talked about it 8 years ago.<BR>For a while, after finding out about the ow online with emails, and phone contacts,<BR>I was just in a rage and depression. I had constant thoughts about either slitting my throat right in front of him so he’d never forget it, or just simply walking off into some lake, never<BR>to return. Thank the Lord for the children. They bring you sanity of sorts. I have come<BR>to sadly realize that I have married a shallow man. He can be so charming and he has admitted<BR>that he probably treats other women with more respect and talks to them better than me, but I<BR>know him, and they don’t. We went through a lot to get married and I have put everything into<BR>this marriage and to find this stuff out is quite devastating, to say the least.<P>I have read the letters of internet infidelity that were mentioned above and<BR>Am going to see if he will at least read them. I don’t know if I really want him<BR>To read my posts yet. Sometimes I find myself just just staring at him, wondering<BR>What he is thinking and how I can ever truly trust him again.<BR>We had a huge fight the few days before we went to a conference for a week. It was a <BR>Vacation for a week with the kids for us, work for him. I told him that we were going to<BR>Go as I had promised the kids and didn’t want to ruin it for them. We had an unbelievable <BR>Good time. I do realize he is a great father and want to keep that intact, if nothing else.<P>I still have grave doubts about his stopping the emails and phone calls with others because he<BR>Will be going out of town. He has a laptop that is from work and I don’t have access to that.<BR>One of the OW just happened to use his home computer address and it was right in front of me<BR>When he had typed his email address to come up first. It really upsets me when he signs his emails with xxxxdx and ooooos. And I love you……..Now how can he “love” them, when he hasn’t met them? I can sort of understand talking, but make it clear it is clearly a conversational<BR>Relationship….not any of this “love” stuff. He calls them “Babe” and “Honeybunch”. Just thinking about it depresses me. I guess I should be happy he doesn’t go out and drink, etc….<BR> His birthday is coming up and I am in doubt as of what to do. I always get him something although it has been YEARS since he has even gotten me a card. I can count on one hand the times he has even gotten me personally a Christmas present. A few years ago, he brought home this stuffed duck… I don’t even know what its for. I know he didn’t pick it out. He just doesn’t take the TIME to go out and look for an appropriate present or a thoughtful one. It is just not something he does, so when he came home with this duck, I wanted to pitch it to him. Some woman at work probably needed some kind of sale and he helped her out. But for him to try and pass it off as something he personally did for me..I got angry about it.<BR> Anyway, I always make a big deal of his birthday, make a cake, etc. He will probably be out of town, but for the sake of the kids we always do something. I am angry enough at him to try and just ignore it, but one side of me says that would be too mean. Its not something that I would normally do, so why should I let his actions make mine become like his? I have brought up the subject of birthdays, etc in the past and told him that for such an intelligent man, he is perfectly so stupid at times. I think it is the engineer mentality, actually.! I think I forgive him, yet I don’t forget, but wish things were different. Well, if wishes were horses,………<BR> Anyway, it has helped some to ventilate and I will continue to read and RE-READ the ariticles<BR>About Love banks, etc. I had no idea this internet infidelity was so rampant and it seems to me<BR>If they feel guilty about it or have to hide it, then they KNOW that it must be WRONG.<BR>Mikkey<BR>

Hi,<P>I have to gather up my three kids right now and head over to the school to register them for the new school year. Before I left I wanted to give you a quick reply.<P>D-day for me was March 22. On that day I found that my H was having online affairs with at least 10 women. These included cyber/phone sex, one in-person physical affair, and dinner/lunch dates with a few who met him while he traveled for his job.<P>Here is a link to my first post here on MB. It contains my story. <BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000730.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000730.html</A> <P>When I get back from the school, I'll check in on you and see if there is more I can do to help you.<P>By the way, have you started to read the material on this web site? It's wonderful. My husband and I have put our marriage back together using the MB concepts. It saved us.<P>Hang in there.<P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Hi Zorweb,<BR>Thank you for your reply. My H left today for 150 miles away for a job that will last till possibly Monday. I put<BR>a Emotional Needs questionaire in an envelope and put it in the car for him to look at sometime in the next few days if he has time. I know he will probably be working 10 or twelve hour shifts. I will also be doing mine and we can evaluate them when he gets home. I also left him a few presents (wrapped up mints,gum with little notes, for him to find by surprise in the car). I am working on PLAN A at the present time. He is still in denial, but I printed out the letters mentioned above for him to read and put that in there also. <BR> I think I really need him to validate my feelings and admit he was wrong. He hasn't come to that point yet and just tries to brush it off. He left a message on the machine that he will call tomorrow night and then give me his hotel number. He has a cell phone with him all the time that I can call him if need be, but it is strictly for short messages. <P>Yes, I have been reading alot of the main board and find it very helpful. I just hope I can get him to read some too and agree.<P>MIkkey

I too have a H who has been "just talking" to many women online. But, I've come to find out that he has met at least one that I know of. I'm sure of many more. He did finally tell me he met her. She's from another state. He said he didn't mean for anything to happen. Okay so you just drive hours away to meet someone and nothing is going to happen. I just don't belive that. I feel like I have to monitor everything now. Like he's two different people. I can't trust him at all. I've recorded phone conversations and heard him tell his bestfriend a little about her and a separate 45 min conversation about a close friend of his - girl friend. I didn't suspect anything before this. I went off on him. Told him he had to end the friendship completely with her. Totally out of his life, any way shape or form, no conversation. More later on.

Here is my story about my husband's addiction to porn...<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum8/HTML/004669-2.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum8/HTML/004669-2.html</A> <P>scroll down to my post, my name is Bluebird...<P>I see so many similarities in all of your stories. My husband's cybercheating had been going on I suspect for several years, before that it was phone sex on two separate occasions, before that it was pornographic mags.<BR>I discovered he planned to meet with one of his online cybergals just a few days after I had discovered his online activites.<P>I installed spector on our home PC. Since that time I have created a site dedicated to helping people suffering from online affairs. This is where I am venting my frustrations and anger by helping other people who are hurting just like me. IT is helping in my healing process.<P>Trusting after an online infidelity is so hard, especially when nothing physical has happened. The people at MB have been so helpful in helping validate my feelings and helping me thnk clearly and rationally when I am at the end of my rope. <P>I think what has helped me the most is knowing it is over. I know what he is doing and he knows I am watching him. Radical honesty, no privacy, having all of his passwords, is what has worked for us in establishing trust again but boy is it hard and I can't even begin to explain how much I hurt. I just have to trust the healing process and hope that in time I will trust him again.<P>Anyway, check it out..hope you find it helpful...http://www.bustedyouonline.com<P>Bluebird<P>

Mikkey,<P>It sounds like you are doing many of the right things. This takes a lot of patience.<P>It sounds like you are doing many of the right things. This takes a lot of patience.<P>Have you considered putting monitoring software on his computer so that you can get a true picture of what is going on with him and these other women? I would highly recommend that since I do not think he will tell you what is really going on. <P>Also I would recommend that you read some of the books by Dr. Harley. Surviving an Affair would be a very good one to start with. Your husband is having affairs; they are at least emotional affairs (EA).<P>I use the software sold on <A HREF="http://www.iopus.com." TARGET=_blank>www.iopus.com.</A> It can be run in stelth mode. We now run it on all of our computers.<P>Z<BR><p>[This message has been edited by zorweb (edited August 09, 2001).]

Hi Mikkey,<P>Just checking in. I see you are in good hands. These people have gone through similar situations and can offer support. In my case, my H's on-line went EA/PA quickly. I can not stress the importance of the both of you working to fix your marriage now. I know that is what you want but the real challenge is for and with your H. How to get him to that point is a slow step by step process. <P>It will try every ounce of your patience and love. Just when you think you have no more to give, more will be required. For me the strength to continue came from several sources. The ability to vent was here. My inner strength came from family, friends, counselors, my personal relationship with God and MB. <P>Find out how much your H can take. Especially if he is in denial, he will not be able to absorb to the quantity and degree that you are. So don't flood him with info. Watch how he is receiving it. I used to send my H some of the threads and writeups via e-mail. You know these internet relationships generally start out with e-mails so you know they (WSs) like getting e-mails. Use that to your advantage and plan A your H that way. Also use this vehicle to send him caring letter/notes. Short and sweet. With sincerity of course. <P>Please take some time to acess yourself. Find your strong and weak areas. Concentrate on bettering yourself. Sounds a bit backwards, I know but in reality it is preparing you for what is ahead. No matter how it looks or feels right now, you need to be prepared for rougher times. It could go that way or get better but if it gets worse and you are not prepared, you are the one to suffer not your H. At least not at the beginning. So work on strenghtening yourself and your family. Build your support group for you. <P>Take Care,<BR>L.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Orchid (edited August 09, 2001).]

Thank you all for your responses. AFRIENDWILL, has your H agreed to quitting or is he in denial also that its “just conversation”?<BR>BLUEBIRD, I need to address the issue of porn also. Late last year , H was unemployed due to a layoff at the time, I randomly checked the “history” of the computer and was horrified to find teen porn sites. So, I asked the H first if it was him as we do have a teenage son (but it would be out of character for the son), and H denied it. So, I then confronted the son, who also denied it. I went back to H and talked about it again and he admitted it was him. He said he was a man and he was going to look. I then said but these are teenagers, children, and I talked about how very often, trouble starts, just by looking. There are several families in our neighborhood whom the H is in jail for molesting their kids. Unfortunately, these kids are now teens and very much in trouble all the time. I told H that I would be concerned in the future if he would get into the porn and then I would have to worry about our own girls. He brushed that off and said I was the sick person. I just explained that’s how it starts. There were several times after that that I continued to find some sites and I asked him to stop again. He has a “friend” (whom I can’t stand and is the world’s worst [censored]) that is into violent movies and porn. Thankfully, the man only comes this direction three times a year, for the 3 holiday Labor Day, Memorial Day, and Hunting. My H spends time out there with him and I think he gets terrible ideas. He says he feels sorry for him. The wife is a very good friend of mine and has been through hell with this man. She will not leave him as he has threatened her and has in the past even shot a gun over her head. I can’t understand why she stays with him for the life of me. But that is another story. Her kids are all grown and either in the military or married now.<BR> My H say also feels sorry for all the women he has online and want to befriend and counsel them .<BR> I called H last night and talked for a bit. He said he had his hair cut and SHAMPOO’D….this guy takes several showers a day and always washes his hair. He has thick beautiful hair and likes to have hands run through it. I’m thinking, yeah, you just wanted a woman to run her hands through your hair. Anyway, I let it go but now that I know about all this stuff maybe I am seeing things that aren’t there. Do you know what I mean? Am I beginning to be paranoid and not ever going to trust him? and attributing falsehoods that aren’t really there because I am concerned about where this is all going? In the past he would go out on a job, (in the old old days, and I wouldn’t think anything about it. I trusted him completely and didn’t mind him being away for a few days or so. I need my own space also and am not a “clinger”. I don’t want to become a “clinger” either and always thought it was healthy to be apart occasionally. There is a deep sadness that accompanies all this. Sometimes I get so choked up I can hardly breathe but I hardly ever let him see me cry. I don’t want to give him ammunition of sorts.<BR> He is the computer saavy person. I am not. I could buy install something on here, but it doesn’t matter because he’s got the laptop which he does most of the stuff from. The company just redid the harddrives on those and he can’t get out onto any non company sites but he has talked about taking the old harddrive with him and getting around that. So, the email I read from the one woman was a mistake as she hadn’t heard from him and was “pissed” as she put it and she used his home email address which he hardly uses, but which he had on that day.<BR> The one woman is from Washington DC area and from May to June he went to Washington DC twice. Now I know that he said she is the “gay” person he has been talking to, but what can I believe anymore. The other one, obviously is not, and I asked about her and he told me a little of her history and he only wanted to encourage her. Well she says she loves him but can’t be with him. GRRRRrrrr. I am tempted to write her a letter of my own. Do you think I should do that? Her H left her with the kids, walked out and she has a physical disability. I’d just like to tell her to back off, cuz she is pining for something she can’t have.<BR> Do any of you ever worry that you SO will find some “nut” on the computer? I don’t watch much tv but I have watch a few real-life stories on lifetime at my MIL’s and there are some real cases out there that could put your lives and kids in jeopardy. Do any of you think of that or is it the paranoid stage for me? <BR> Well, the kids are up and I have to get off. Will be back to check later. Teenager has come in here several times and I don’t want him to know anything about this. I was just too exhausted last night to get on the computer and I haven’t been sleeping well at all. <BR>ORCHID, I have been going to the gym everyday and will be glad for the Sat/Sun break. I think I have lost a few pounds and I feel better. The gym sessions this morning didn’t seem so grueling to me, so maybe I have made some advances in that area. I will be interested in seeing what my H has to say about the questionnaire as I still think he is in total denial and thinks its all my fault because of my weight. I am nervous about talking to him tonight. I know he will be working 10 hour days but he says its in air-conditioned comfort. We have talked of improving our marriage so there is a lot of hope for me but I still get depressed thinking about it so I try to keep involved with the kids and do other stuff.<BR>M.<BR>

Hi Mikkey,<P>Just checking in..how are things going for you? <P>Bluebird

Hi Bluebird, <BR>Thanks for asking. My H left for a job last Wed. . He will be calling tonight or tomorrow morning to see if he will be done on that particular job so we either get to go see him or not. Chances are, if he is done, they will send him directly onto the next job. His birthday is this week and the kids wanted to see him. Then our anniversary is in another 2 weeks. In the past, he hardly ever mentions it but every few years we go out to dinner.<BR> I have been depressed. He has hardly called. I have been doing most of the calling and he either doesn’t answer (after 10pm) or he says he was doing laundry. I have written him at least 7 emails since last Wednesday and he has not answered a single one. I asked him about it last night and he said he hasn’t had a chance to open up the computer. He found the questionnaire but hasn’t filled it out yet. <BR> I filled out the EN questionnaire and then went back over it. I realized most of my answers were just on either side of the neutral except for a few. Then I thought that that’s because I have been resigned about the issues for nearly 18 years. So I am going to go over it again, in a different color ink and explain to him why there are two colors there.<BR> I am depressed because I think he is definitely withdrawing. Maybe he doesn’t care?<BR>Thinking over Plan A I see it as a behavior change in me, but he gets to do whatever he wants so therefore he gets to have his cake and eat it too? <BR> I have a friend from a few states away who is coming this way this weekend and I can’t wait to talk to her about it. I feel I can’t really talk to any of my other friends, because I don’t really want them to think bad of him so am protecting him too. This all confuses me, frankly.<BR> I didn’t get to sleep till after 4:30 am this morning, for thinking of all this stuff. I even got up to take a hot bath and then was dog tired at 6:15 when the alarm went off. I had a relative come and watch the girls while I went to the gym. I have good news there. I am really liking the program and have lost 5 pounds since a week ago. So that’s a step in the right direction.<BR> I homeschool my two little ones and have been panicking as I have to get their curriculum all together. I have most of it and I take care of ordering for several other families so I have been busy with that. I have teen in HS also. He is a huge help to me, but doesn’t know about the computer thing with H. Just that there are a lot of silences, although we got along well this last week before he left. My H has always been real supportive of the homeschooling and other parenting issues and is a really good Dad. He loves doing stuff with the teen and when “forced”—as in I say “I’m going—you have the girls, bye” he has a good time with them but won’t initiate time alone with them hardly ever. He always seems to be too busy for them but not for the teen boy. <BR>2 questions:<BR> [1] Should I write my own letter to the OW that I have the email address to? This has been uppermost in my mind. Its just SOMETHING TO DO!!!!!!!!<BR> And, [2], Should I mention the OW when I finally do see him again or is that not allowed? I feel as if I don’t, I’m just enabling him to continue as is.<BR>Thanks.<BR>Mikkey<BR>

If you have proof of OW and husband, then I would print it up and confront him. Even after confronting my husband about his online affairs, he seems to be in the "fog" so many people here describe. Don't be surprised by this.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bluebird:<BR><B>If you have proof of OW and husband, then I would print it up and confront him. Even after confronting my husband about his online affairs, he seems to be in the "fog" so many people here describe. Don't be surprised by this.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>thanks Bluebird, I think I will. I have emails from in the past that he has signed with xxxxoooo. This drives me nuts as I would never sign a letter like that with it just to be flirtatous. That is too much encouragement. He came home the other day, and enroute he called and we made plans to go out to a movie and eat soup/salad. When he got home, the girls started crying and said they wanted to be with him. So he said, okay, we'll go tomorrow. After I got grandma to sit, etc.......I was so boiling mad I didn't say anything for fear I would just go ballistic, lay into him, etc. I was really feeling like I should have been the one to have the A as my needs seem hardly ever to be met and everybody else gets first dibs. If he had said he was tired and didn't want to go out after driving all that way, it would have been a different story, but he didn't. The kids just turn on the tears and instead of telling them we made plans, he just does what they want. So I dropped my son and his friend off to a movie. I desperately wanted to go have a drink somewhere (I'm not the drinking type though) and then I thought that I couldn't do that because I had to pick up the boys in two hours. So I ended up going to the cemetery and bawling my eyes out for about 25 minutes. I then came home and went to bed until it was time to pick up son. I didn't even want to talk to H. I wanted him to come up, but he didn't so in the morning he asked me what was wrong and I told him as I just started crying again. Lack of sleep has really been a killer on me too. I have been thinking so much and I think that I've always been a strong and self-reliant person. I don't want to be the needy type but it seems I have just become that way in the few weeks that I have discovered this. I just can't seem to get it together and he seems relieved to be off on a job. He was home for one day and got a 2 hour notive that he had to leave so I drove him to the airport. Don't know when he'll be back, but he thought maybe Tuesday.<BR> Thank you for letting me ventilate here. I just get so frustrated and ANGRY. Sometimes I don't think there's a prayer's chance for plan A to work, when I feel I've already given so much and now need to "cater" even more. I still try to back off and not think about things but find myself going round and round in the house in a daze, not completing tasks with any efficiency which also drives me nuts. I'm getting off here now so I can get some much needed sleep. At least try, I've been waking up every hour every night and laid into my son last night cuz he got up to check on the dog, check the doors, etc...which he does 2-3 times and just makes me mad because I am such a light sleeper and wake up for just about anything. I don't know how many times this week I've apologized to him for taking something out on him that isn't even his fault. Something has got to give pretty soon. Maybe getting into the school routine in the next few weeks will help.<P>Has you H owned up to having an EA finally? Has he read any of the articles from this site and be willing to work on meeting your emotional needs too? Do you ever feel like the subject is just "put on the shelf" so that neither one has to get into it and rock the boat? I hate when that happens too.<P>Mikkey<P>

He has owned up to it simply becasue there was no way he could deny what was happening when I pulled out the physical proof. He has read a few articles from this site but <B>I</B> am the one doing the most reading and encouraging us to get help. I have filled out the EN questionnaire and he is still working on his. We are actually considering going to the upcoming Marriage Builders Weekend next month in Dallas.<P>Though your spouse may be in a fog, your kids definitely know when something is up. You try to hide your feelings from them but they are so perceptive. The stress and the lack of sleep takes it's toll on you I know.