This was copied from another thread of mine called, "How Long Does Withdrawl Last??" <P>I need feedback, (good or bad) please!!<P>Here's an update on my situation. This is a little long, but will explain my feelings on this issue a little more. <BR>Also, I found out last night that my WS says she is NOT confused. (At least, that is what she claims.) <BR>The following is a letter I wrote to her with the idea of letting her know my feelings w/o being judgemental, controlling, or munipulative. The idea was to allow her to see my point of view w/o LB'ing. Please let me know what you all think about what I said. Do you think this was a LB?<P>(Please note: Everywhere you see a "UPDATE 08/29/01", this was her answer to the question(s).) <P>The names have been changed to protect the guilty:<P>08/28/01<BR>Dear W, <P>Please except this as the only way I can convey my feelings (comfortably) to you w/o you feeling like I am being judgemental, munipulative, or controlling. By writing this down, I can read this over to be sure that I have not said anything that makes you feel this way. I will not lecture you, or try to corner you for any answers to what I am about to say. Please, just listen to what I have to say, and make your own conclusions and/or decisions. I do love you, and don't want to start any fights with you. On the contrary, I think we need to open up friendly lines of communications between each of us. I just want you to know what my feelings are, so you can tell me if I am making more out of this than it really is, or if there is some truth to it. OK?<P>First of all, I am very concerned that your 'rejection' (for lack of a better word) of my love for you is currently getting worse. I notice many 'little things' that lead me to feel this way. (I.E. The way you kiss me in the mornings...You used to give me full body hugs. Now, you seem to make a point of keeping your arms down at your sides, raising only your hands to my face, so that I can't give you a full body hug. You rarely give me any eye contact anymore when I am talking to you. You are always looking in other directions, as if searching for something/someone, etc. I don't know if you realize this or not, but your signal to me feels like: "I just don't want to look at you." (Once again, this is NOT a judgement on you. Just a feeling I get. OK? I hope I'm wrong about this.) <P>When I come up to you on the sofa in the evenings to kiss you, hug you, and gaze (lovingly) into your eyes, you are uncomfortable with this, you look away, it shows, and you will usually ask me something like, "What?" As if you are trying to say, "Please quit trying. I'm not interested in you." (NOT a judgement. Just a feeling I have. Once again, I hope I'm wrong, or I am blowing this out of proportion. Please let me know if I'm wrong. OK?)(UPDATE 08/29/01: She said that she doesn't like being stared at. It makes her uncomfortable. That's all!) <P>I have asked you many times, "What can I do to make you happy?" Your response is always, "I don't know. I don't even know what I'm feeling right now." W, I understand that you are confused right now. (I hope you don't find that judgemental. I don't mean to be, so if you are NOT confused...Please let me know. OK?) (UPDATE 08/29/01: This is where she told me that she is NOT confused. She knows how she feels, and is currently NOT in love w/ me.) But, if you can tell me specific things I can do to make you more comfortable with me, please tell me. OK? (UPDATE 08/29/01: (She said she didn't know what to tell me about what I can do.)<P>One thing you did say to me the other day that gives me some hope was, "BS, please be patient w/ me. I am trying to fall in love." When I asked, "With me?" You said, "Who else am I married to? Yes, you!" This really made me feel good! I really hope you meant what you said. (If not, please tell me so. OK?)<P>W, I will be patient w/ you. I hope this means that you realize that this may take some time, because for you to ask me to be patient with you, means that you are not in any hurry to develope these feelings immediately or else! Is this a correct statement? (UPDATE 08/29/01: She said she is trying to sort out her feelings, and it would be nice to fall in love w/ me, but says there has been no change in her feelings yet. And, says she doesn't know how long she can continue this way.) <P>I know that trust has been a major issue w/ us, and I think we both are working on this very hard! I want you to know that I appreciate all of your efforts. You really made me feel good the other day, when you asked me if I wanted to go w/ you to visit w/ friends of yours! I know it's just a little thing, but I was happy you asked me! (UPDATE 08/29/01: At this point she told me that she really wanted to go by herself, but knew I would panic or freak out with her absence.) <P>W, just the little things you do for me are very much appreciated by me! I know that I have a long way to go in order to earn your love and trust, and I will continue trying to do just that! <P>You mean the world to me, and your happiness is all that I want! Please believe me, when I say this, because I really mean it! I want you to be who you want to be. I want you to feel like you can do anything you want to do, and know that I will support you and validate you in everything you do. <P>I know that I have been difficult to live with, especially lately. And, I know that you are seeing a part of me that you have never seen before. I realize that (probably) a part of you doesn't know how to deal with this new person I've become. I am trying with all that I am to make sure that we have a chance to find a love for each other that neither of us knew exists! A true and deep love that we both can feel proud of! I will promise you that I will never stop trying to show you this love. And, at the same time, I will attempt to NOT smother you. I know this is an issue for you. I'm sorry for your feeling this way, because I really don't mean to smother you. (UPDATE 08/29/01: She had no comment on this.) <P>You know, it's kind of funny, but when you get a "Wake-Up" call like the one you gave me, it shocks you into action! Know what I mean? When you pursue someone (for the fear of loosing their love) you find yourself falling "In Love" with them all over again! I am in love with you, W! For the first time in a long time! I am truly infatuated with you! You are my every thought of every day! I love your looks, your inner beauty, your smell, your clothes, everything about you turns me on! (UPDATE 08/29/01: She had no comment on this.) <P>All I ask of you is to just think for a moment about this................................<P>What if I weren't here tomorrow? How would you feel about what could have been between us today? (UPDATE 08/29/01: She said she didn't know how she would feel, cause I've always been there.) <P>Or, what if I (eventually) gave up on ever being able to earn your love, and left you forever, or found someone else to love? How would that make you feel? (UPDATE: She had no comment on this. She just shrugged her shoulders.) <P>Maybe you don't know the answers to these questions, but (as you know) anything can happen. <P>I am trying to live every day with the thought that there may never be a tomorrow! What would I do if I lost you tomorrow? I would want to know that I did my best to make you happy, and loved you with all of my heart, so that if tomorrow never comes........I'm at peace with myself knowing that I gave of myself and all that I am for someone I love as much as myself. Does this make any sense? Just something to think about...<P>I love you, W.<P>BS<P>(UPDATE 08/29/01: After I had finished reading this letter to her, she really had nothing to say except, "BS, I know how you feel. And, I'm sorry. But, nothing has changed. I don't know what to tell you but that we both are trying. I have seen the change in you. Mainly, in your showing affection towards me. And, It's nice. But, my feelings haven't changed since D-Day. I will continue to try, but I can't make you any promises. OK?" I said, "OK. Can we both just focus on the positive things?" She said, "Isn't that what we have been doing?" I said, "Yes, but haven't we made any progress in the last couple of weeks?" She said, "Yes. Things have been more positive, and I thing we have moved a little forward. But, don't try to over-anylize things! Don't corner me, and ask me if I feel anything yet! OK?" I said, "OK. I love you.") <P>We kissed and hugged each other, and went on w/ our regular evening. <P>Please tell me what you guys think about what I did. Was this the right thing to do, or should I just keep my mouth shut? Thanks for any advice you may offer!<P>HT <P>

I think you were right by expressing your feelings - that's very important. However, TIME is the keyword. She maybe going through withdrawal (and this may hurt) from not seeing or being with the OM (Mb talks about it). You must give her that time - how long? I don't know. Everyone is different. Currently, I believe my H is going through the same thing and I cannot bear that thought.<P>Your W is suffering also - to think she could do such a thing, to think how she has hurt you and hurt herself also. Yea, it may be hard to believe right now but after a month, I believe the WS suffers guilt and shame also. <P>Hang in there. And keep expressing your feelings its not only good for her to hear it, but good for you to say it.<P>

I could have written the same letter to my wife and gotten the exact same answers. I know what you mean about falling in love when you persue your wife again. It husts to think that the future may not be with her.I have asked mine to marry me again so we can start over fresh. My wife will not give up the other man she wants to stop finding him so sexy. Then she says she can come back to me for me.I know its hard It seems like all of this is some well written script that we all follow. Try to be the person she fell in love with. I know that is impossible but you have to try.I do not know if you hava a family but I beleive that marriage builders can help. There is a article here somewhere aboutwhat one sopouse can do to save there marriage. I figure as long as I am living with my wife and sleeping with her I have the advantage if I do not blow it.This may help because my wife has been honest with me. My touch is not something that she wants right now she knows I need to hold her so she lets me (this hurts)I am not the most important person in her life. She says she loves me more than anyone but is not in love with me. She has only broke down for a few seconds and said she really wanted to work this out. I get the I do not know , I need time.I am holding oon my a thread is usually what I here. I accept blame for not meeting her needs but am vary confused on how a mother could risk this much pain to her children. Me I understand I have one hell of a sex drive but my daughter I am confused. One person told me I should leave such a selfish women but like you say when you are again chasing them you fall in Love. It would be nice if the ws would be the one who did the chasing but santa clause would be nice too. I need someone to talk to also so maybe we can share each others pains and joy.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Whyme?:<BR><B>I think you were right by expressing your feelings - that's very important. However, TIME is the keyword. She maybe going through withdrawal (and this may hurt) from not seeing or being with the OM (Mb talks about it). You must give her that time - how long? I don't know. Everyone is different. Currently, I believe my H is going through the same thing and I cannot bear that thought.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Whyme: Thanks for your support. But, I have posted this thread in several other forums on this site, and (in every response) MB people have said that this letter is a major LB! Not in that I have expressed my feelings, but that I have left the message to her, "See what you have done to me?! Look how you have hurt me!! You Bi***!" Make sense?<BR>It's a way for me to get her to look at my EN's. My EN's aren't important to her right now, unfortunately! It's a hard pill for me to swallow, too. But, it does make sense to me. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Whyme?:<BR><B><BR>Hang in there. And keep expressing your feelings its not only good for her to hear it, but good for you to say it.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I agree it's good for me to get it out, but may not be the right time for her to hear it. I think she knows how this is affecting me. At least, I hope so! She has said that she is sorry for hurting me, but her feelings haven't changed! <BR> <P>Thanks for your support! God Bless you! <P>HT<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by allicat:<BR><B>I could have written the same letter to my wife and gotten the exact same answers. I know what you mean about falling in love when you persue your wife again. It hurts to think that the future may not be with her.I have asked mine to marry me again so we can start over fresh. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Wow, AC! I asked my W to marry me again, too! This is too wierd! She declined though. Did yours?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by allicat:<BR><B><BR>My wife will not give up the other man she wants to stop finding him so sexy.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'm sorry to hear that, AC! I'm glad that she wants to STOP finding the OM sexy, though. That's a plus! How would she feel if you had a woman friend? Have you asked her? It might shock her! But, maybe not. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by allicat:<BR><B><BR>Try to be the person she fell in love with. I know that is impossible but you have to try.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>NO! NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE!! Got to get rid of that kind of thinking AC! I know, and she knows, that I could easilly find another sexy woman in a matter of hours! It's not that I'm a real stud or extremely attractive (Although I've been told so. LOL! ) But, she knows I can turn on the charm at the drop of a hat! The problem is that she (Also) knows that I'm head over heals w/ her, and there isn't anything I won't do for her! I think that may be part of the problem. You think? Maybe, just maybe, our WS's need to pursue us. Ya think? What if the shoe were on the other foot? Would they fall in love /w us again??<P>TOO many maybes, huh? <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by allicat:<BR><B><BR>My touch is not something that she wants right now she knows I need to hold her so she lets me (this hurts)<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Tell me about it, brother! My W gives me SF, but she says that it's only for my benefit. Her heart is not in it! (OUCH!) She says that women can go for years w/o sex! (Yeah, right! ) What's funny is that she always reaches at least 1 O, or more, and really enjoys it while we are doing it! But, she won't kiss me anymore! Guess she is saving that for the OM. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by allicat:<BR><B><BR>One person told me I should leave such a selfish women but like you say when you are again chasing them you fall in Love. It would be nice if the ws would be the one who did the chasing but santa clause would be nice too. I need someone to talk to also so maybe we can share each others pains and joy.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I have had people tell me the same thing about my leaving my WS, too. But, they haven't been deeply in love w/ their spouse for 23 years, either! What do they know! We are all responsible for the A! We didn't meet their EN's! They didn't think to tell us, etc....<P>By the way, I believe in Santa Clause! You know, AC.......<BR>A lot of people have told me that Plan A is mostly about us BS's. I've been thinking lately about doing more for myself. I know when I go to the bars, my W gets nervous and calls me a lot. Hmmmmmmmm. I wonder why? <P>Maybe we could get them to pursue us! We don't have to have an A either! But, if they thought that we were seeing someone.........Well, who knows! <P>Thanks for your support, and God Bless! <P>HT

thanks for answering I needed to here (talk) to another person about by crazy ideas. To answer your question my wife is not having sex with me its been a week. She is vary sexual and has almost always has the big o with me. But what she tells me is that when I first touch her she wants to stop but once she is horny she reaches climax once and then wants to stop again which is hard on me because I do not reach climax that quick she is the 3 min one and I am the 15 min. Anyhow my wife turn me down on the marriage purposal and said she would only renew our vows if she meant it. Now for todays weird dicission. We own alot of things houses boats car and have a daughter to take care of for us to ever be free of each other is impossible. We have talked about open marriage intresting topic but how do you really feel. What I said today is lets have a threesome with the guy. Lets have sex for eachother and go into with that attitude. The thought of her with someone else is with me is intresting and she said it made her horny. I said lets have sex but she turned me down. But anyhow I told her to have her boyfriend call me. We are brainstorming for ways to say our marriage. Right wrong I do not know but you have to start the Joint Policy Of Agreement somewhere. My wife and I have a long history together and I blame myself for not meating her needs. My problem goes back 10 years when she let a good looking guy suduce her at work. She had a affair I found out made her quit her job and everything. But i left her with a fantasy that she can not deal with. This other man from the first affair has treated her vary badly but she still thought she had great sex. so I am fighting a fantasy this new man is a symptom from the first affair and not getting over it. I have read Dr. Harleys books His needs Her needs and the one called affairs. It islike reading something I have written about my feeling my wife agrees to bad we did not know about this 10 years ago. Then I could have consintrated about meeting her needs and less about her fantasy. My wife and I are going to the MB workshop in Dallas in Sept. It is another way to try to save our marriage. I have been way to honest hear about things but I really do need input from outside because my judgement is cloudy.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by allicat:<BR><B>Now for todays weird dicission. We own alot of things houses boats car and have a daughter to take care of for us to ever be free of each other is impossible. We have talked about open marriage intresting topic but how do you really feel. What I said today is lets have a threesome with the guy. Lets have sex for eachother and go into with that attitude. The thought of her with someone else is with me is intresting and she said it made her horny. I said lets have sex but she turned me down. But anyhow I told her to have her boyfriend call me. We are brainstorming for ways to say our marriage. Right wrong I do not know but you have to start the Joint Policy Of Agreement somewhere. My wife and I have a long history together and I blame myself for not meating her needs.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, what can I say to that? <P>First of all, you're a lot less inhibited than me! A threesome w/ another GUY?!! Not my cup of tea! But, a threesome w/ another woman? NOW WE'RE TALKING! <P>Honestly though, I don't think having an open marriage would be the answer. Why? Well, you admitted YOU haven't met her EN's. Bring someone else into the picture that DOES meet her needs........Where would that leave you?? She wouldn't have any need for you anymore! I (personally) would NOT do this! Yes, it's fun to fantasize, but to actually do it??????? I think it would back-fire in your face! Just my opinion... <P>Plan A is the way to go right now! Make YOU her only interest! Let her know that the grass is greener on your side of the fence!<P>Good luck!<P>HT <P>

It is not that I am uninhibited and I am not into men at all but I find my wife extreamly beautiful when she is horny. I have her so spoiled and I do not think she even knows it. How many men are willing not to have a o because there wife is tired of sex. when we where young and in love it was vary good birth control and she always had o 2 or 3 times sometimes 5 and I did not. Don't get me wrong she is a lot of fun but not vary giving she likes whats she likes and will do lots of things but shen she is horny she does not care anymore. One of her reason for starting affair was no comentment sex. She is not actually haveing intercoarse she told me before that has happen this time. I think me knowing will even if they do will be hard on her and she will not think it is that great unless she has my permission. Wishful thinking atleast. The guy said know way he is scared because she told me . She said I had a right to know. This guy is thinking about getting married to the girl hes living with. I feel sorry for him. My wife is a complicated women he does not know what he is playing with. Not that I do either. I keep hoping she will come back to me holeheartedly so we can work this out. I am commited to not having my daughter life disrupted. I take care of her I take her to preschool I watch her most of the days. This summer her grandmother has watched her somedays though. Next month she is my total repondibility. I hope I can deal with it. I tell my wife she does not know how tring it can be to be with a 4 year old all day. When I take her to preschool I watch all the other kids the ones that get dropped of at 6 and picked up at 6 and I do not want that for my daughter. I leave her ther for a couple hours to play and do the schoop then I bring her home. My wife is my sole support right now. I can make money without her but I can not give our daughter the love she deserves without being with her. I am willing to love my wife and have a open marriage so my daughter gets my full attention.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by allicat:<BR><B>It is not that I am uninhibited and I am not into men at all but I find my wife extreamly beautiful when she is horny.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>AC: Sorry, I've been busy for awhile and haven't had the chance to check in. But................<P>I hear what you are saying about how beautiful our W's are when they are horny! When my W is horny, it drives me nuts!! My problem is that OM makes my W horny now, not me! Or, at least, I think she fantasizes about OM when she is w/ me! Ouch! <BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by allicat:<BR><B><BR>My wife is my sole support right now. I can make money without her but I can not give our daughter the love she deserves without being with her. I am willing to love my wife and have a open marriage so my daughter gets my full attention.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Sorry to hear this. You are really a good man for wanting to do anything for the love of your daughter. I wonder what your daughter would say about what you are willing to sacrifice for her? I'm sure she would love you more than words can say, but at the same time, she just might want you to do what is more right for your relationship, and to install some morals into her Mom. Don't ya think?<P>You might try to get your WS to a minister. How does she believe? Is she a Christian? <P>Just a thought. <P>Good luck, and God Bless! <P>HT<P>

Hey guys,<P>You're really getting off on a tangent on this threesome thing! Concentrate on just the two of you at least until you're healthy again, there's already been enough people in the mix!<BR>HT, at this point in time, anything you say won't make too much difference. I tried the same thing with my W. She did the deer in the headlights look when I gave her a kiss and told her one day we'll sit on this couch with a glass of wine and enjoy eachother.... No response. Letters... No response.... E-Mail... just yesterday... no response unless you call "That was nice" (So many inuendos it would make any GF's head swim with love thoughts) Forget it. It makes no difference right now. All I can tell you is that my W doesnt' trust me whatsoever and she did the OM. There is nothing you can do about this right now. She gives me pecks on the lips and then tells me how her HS boyfriend made her sit in the car next to him for "Way" over 2 hours until SHE kissed him. She said she had never initiated a kiss before. She said when she finally did, it was one of the longest and best kisses she ever had. <P>She had told me a couple times that the OM has a special place in her heart just like the HS BF and other BF's. That he/they made her what she is today. Ok, then my A made me what I am today gag me.... Boy did I need to hear that. Sure filled my needs. So don't talk, they are thinking about themselves and how you hurt them and how they are justifying what they may have done or at the very least how they are feeling at the time. Believe me, you are only setting yourself up for hurt.<BR>I'm not saying throw in the towel. My W gave me a kiss this morning, and tried to explain things, which she only dug the hole deeper. Now she's upset cause "I" dont' understand. <BR>Time/forgiveness/and forgetting the feelings for the OP will be the only saving grace. You must replace the memories that she has with yours slowly. These guys come on strong, and your W will not accept yours if they are strong even if you have this new found love for her. Believe me, I'm having the exact same feelings, but they don't believe them. For some reason at this point I think they still want the fantasy and mystery rather than the real thing.