I read what someone (was it TopCat?) said about spouse gradually making it clear that the OP has to go. How do you do that?<P>It is a month since DDay and I know I am now meeting some of WS EN better than ever and I now understand that I was trying to meet other needs the way I would want that need met, not the way spouse wanted the need met. So I have some ideas of how to improve there too. In response, without me asking for anything or saying anything about my needs, WS is now meeting some of my needs better than since we had kids. And I am doing pretty well at avoiding LB's too (except for posting here when the request was for secrecy! But I can't go it alone all the time and I didn't promise secrecy because I knew I couldn't manage it. This seems pretty safe.)<P>BUT: So far the issue of OP is nonnegotiable. I have clear messages that spouse will not (cannot?) give up OP. Any pressure on my part now would clearly be a mistake. How long should I live with this? Can my account in the Love Bank overtake the OP's account?<P>Today (I sometimes think I am a different person every day since DDay) I think I could plan A for a long time,because my top EN (for now) is Family Commitment and as long as WS stays at home and does share of parenting, I can take a lot. (Some days I feel too tired to go on, but this can't be as bad as a divorce.) But will S think, "Oh, I can just keep my marriage and the relationship with OP, it's going so well."<P>At what point will it really be more loving to kick S out and make S face reality that affair is not the answer to our problems? (And we had/have some, we were both in withdrawal until I got this wake-up call.)

Hi Bgentle: I am in the same boat but I am a man and they say women have a harder time loving to women then men do. Keep up plan A as long as you can stay sane. NO LB much easier to say than do. I have said this before but this is a well written script that we all play out over and over again. Remember plan a is suppose to make him realize what he is missing if he leave. They say healing can not begin until the Op is out of the picture. I think that is best but does not seem to be easy. I know its hard to hurt so bad with no one to understand. NO one to talk to. Vent here. Not at him. I am actually trying to date my wife again flowers calls telling her the only true love I have ever known is with her. It is true too. You just open yourself wide and say kick me. I wish the WS could realize that they are the ones who should be begging.The longer you can do Plan A the better off you are but be careful LB and pride are there and one out brake can ruin alot of good. Advice try to talk about comfortable things, safe things ,kids ,work,how great the past has been, what you want in the future. You need to get him to realize that you are still a living person. I have a daughter taht I am trying to protect from a divorce. My wife does not see things as I do. Right now I am the care giver to my daughter while my wife works. Family get him to realize if he will how important a man and wife who love each other are to raising children. Do things that are fun as a family. I he is going to have fun do it with hum. I also know that my spouse is on alert anytime I am near so it is hard to get your love bank built up but do not make withdraws either. I hope this has helped. I could use some advice on how do get my wife to love me again from a women perspective. I also need help and to here what to do. best of Luck

allicat explained it well.<P>Going to Plan B is not easy. DO NOT GIVE THEM A TIMELINE!<P>Before you go to Plan B, you must execute an excellent Plan A . Go into Plan B with them knowing you do care and can change in positive ways for the relationship.<P>However, don’t tell them, “you have until 1 Jan to get rid of op.” Just let them know the op has to go in order to repair the marriage.<P>When the time comes for Plan B, then you do it without disussion or warning to them. You must be prepared to move out. She may not go.<P><B>Can my account in the Love Bank overtake the OP's account?</B><BR>Yes but you CANNOT make ANY withdrawals.<P><B>But will S think, "Oh, I can just keep my marriage and the relationship with OP, it's going so well."</B><BR>For a while in Plan A. But this will end in Plan B. However, you must Plan A for as long as possible.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Yes I did mention that. My W was way too nice about it, really. I told her I wanted a D and we went for a walk and she explained how bad it would be for the kids. She only said she would miss me. I said I would move out and we could be friend always. GEEZZZZ I feel so stupid about that now, among the other stupid things I said. Anyway, she let me get an apartment a few blocks away, and then she began immediately inviting me to things all the time, family things, zoo, church, camping, never asking me to stay, clearly SAD if I left, but made it clear she was ok. Also made it clear she and the kids would be ok. Blew my mind. Never except the first day said she needed me. Just she wanted me. Let me tell you since this is private and your H won't read this. She was so calm when we went to the counsoler. I was so sure we were going to get a D, I told him our story in 30 min, and about OW and that just to take care of W emotionally thru this. She went in for about 10 min, came out shocked that I could be that blunt. We went out to Dinner, cause we were going to be "friends" right? and boom, it happened. She 2 martini's and all the way back to town, she couldn't get enough of my arm, lips, man I tell you, there was no begging on her part, only a desire I had never felt before from her. I don't know how to tell you this, but I saw a side of her that I wasn't going to let anyone else have, forget about the OW! I decided that there was no way I was going to D this woman. So I still put on the front, and slowly, moved back. I mean slowly cause it took 2 years for me to give up the OW, but my W thought I had given her up a year ago. My advise to you is that when your S says they gave the OP up, make sure you have proof. It will be easier for the WS and you in the long run. Don't just accept them saying it's over. Get the No contact letter. It's been over for me for 3mo and I'm crazy about my W. I mean head over heels, the problem now is she has a hard time believing it, but it's comming along. Everything about her drives me wild, hair, skin, toes, legs...... enough said. It can happen, and it would have happened sooner, but you must move slow, and don't bust. She was very smart that way, and I know it was tough when I would leave, you naturally assume it's to see OW. But don't give in, give it time. I would say mine could have easily ended in 6 mo from when D-Day, but like I said, you at that point only accept proof, and it will really make it easy on WS in the long run not to let it continue. The whole thing was a waste of time now for OW and I and W and Family. I hate thinking about it, but it happened. I'm a new man, and I'm VERY happy. Your WS won't believe it right now, but it can/is possible. Hang in there.<P>TopCat

Oh thank you thank you thank you! TopCat, you have given me hope. Because my story seems on the surface so parallel to yours (except of course I am BS).<P>Also, for me WS has not left home yet. (maybe won't?)<P>One ?: If I don't ever show LB, I am afraid, from a couple of stray comments, that S will say, "You are too good for me, I don't deserve you, you can find somebody better than me." and leave anyway!<P>One comment about the "new" desire - for me it came from the fact that even though the subject was a total shock and extremely painful, S was sharing on a deeper more honest level about beliefs and feelings than for years. (All WS take note and hope!) and so even though the A drains the Bank quickly, there was some coming in through honesty!<P>Now to vigilantly keep the hope from turning into expectations --> this has been a problem for me.<P>

Oh believe me, I did think and say that she (BS) was too good for me. It was wierd in that I was feeling sorry for myself (guilt), and yet at the same time, didn't want to let her go as a result of myself feeling that I deserved that unconditional love she was giving, I had never experienced it before, certainly not from my parents. Even OW said she deserved someone who loved her... and you say to yourself when she's saying... "Well I did/do/thought I did/maybe I still do.... you are so confused at that point. You think your W is going to go balistic and make it easy for you to leave. Nice is not what you want, nor is it what the OW expects.<BR> <BR>No, my wife never expected in return, she would kiss me, you name it, yes make love madly too, and say that I would never know how much someone loved me till I left her for good. That the OW really didn't love me that much, but I would have to find that out for myself. But that last part really doesn't matter as you don't believe it when you're in that state of denial/fog. Just remember what the OW is doing, she's making the WS feel like a million bucks every chance she gets, she's got nothing to loose, and filling EN's big time, don't drain what you fill up. I know it's tough, and I was the WS. He'll come to realize the facade eventually, but it will take time. <P>He's also got to realize the consequences of his actions, that you/family will still be in picture no matter what, and he'll have to deal with that, but don't make him feel guilty of it, just the facts mam, in time, slowly. He's got to process it without pressure, or he'll think you're pushing him for a decision, and that MUST come from within him. <P>One of the best things my W did was take me on a little field trip a month or so after we "Broke up" to a grave yard. She showed me a grave of a guy that had a heart attack and died around 45. His kids had flowers, love notes to dad etc, around his grave, each one had a little saying, Mom's name was on the tomb stone, but no date, as she was still alive of course. It was then that my W gave me a book "The Legacy by Steven Lawson. She didn't say anything and we went back the van and went home. You better believe that hit me. "What the hell am I doing" but not right away.... I processed the whole thing, it was over time.<P>Yes, if he comes back... and mostlikely he will, if you play the game right, you will never see more honesty.<BR>I can't be dishonest anymore, seriously. I hate the lying, deceit, covers, blame, ego, all I want now is to tell the truth, but you don't want to hurt. I'll tell what's on my mind, sometimes she doesn't like it, but I'm not trying to hurt. She is really now part of me, where before I never really thought that way.<P>Remember... Honey attracts... If you want to be his Honey again, don't expect anything, and mostlikely you will get much more than you expect. If you expect nothing, anything will be a step forward. What do you have to lose?<P>TopCat<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TCat:<BR><B>Oh believe me, I did think and say that she (BS) was too good for me. It was wierd in that I was feeling sorry for myself (guilt), and yet at the same time, didn't want to let her go as a result of myself feeling that I deserved that unconditional love she was giving, I had never experienced it before, certainly not from my parents. Even OW said she deserved someone who loved her... and you say to yourself when she's saying... "Well I did/do/thought I did/maybe I still do.... you are so confused at that point. You think your W is going to go balistic and make it easy for you to leave. Nice is not what you want, nor is it what the OW expects.<BR> <BR>Remember... Honey attracts... If you want to be his Honey again, don't expect anything, and mostlikely you will get much more than you expect. If you expect nothing, anything will be a step forward. What do you have to lose?<P>TopCat</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, I have the distinct impression S expected me to go ballistic and pack the bags! I am pretty sure that would be a relief (for S) as then the decision would be made FOR S. I am not about to do that. S made this decision to be with OP (and honestly, I wasn't meeting very many EN then, I have improved) and our marriage is badly damaged, but I am NOT going to be the one who says it's over. Now I think (I scrutinize every little hint S drops) S is hoping that OP will end the matter! Then again someone else made the choice. <P>BUT I also have to keep telling myself that I can only change me and no matter what I do, S might still choose something I don't want.<P>Thanks for your openness!