If you have been reading my posts here, you will know what has been going on.<P>I am lost right now, because instead of lying to me, she refuses to talk to me. I can't get her to tell me what she wants. I mean if it's him she wants, I will let her go. If she wants me...not talking to me is a sure fired way to get rid of me.<P>She knows exactly how I feel. I gave her everything that I have. She knows exactly how I felt three years ago...and she knows exactly how I feel right now. I am in the forgiving spirit right now, but her silence is starting to kill that feeling. I told her that if she showed some sort of sorrow that I might be able to stay in the forgiving spirit. She did say that she felt "sorrow", but I just don't feel that she does.<P>I even told her that I shared in the "blame" of her A...that I was the one who wasn't giving her what she wanted.<P>I don't want compensation for what she had done. I don't want her to tell me that she was sorry. I want to feel that she knows that she hurt me, and she is willing to make things right. But how in hell can I do this if she doesn't talk to me? She will only answer straight questions, but won't offer any information to me. Maybe she is just afraid that she will lie to me again. <P>If anyone has any advice on getting someone to talk to them, please, for God's sake, share it with me!<P>I'm getting desparate here!<P>Pops

I hav'nt read your posts but get the feeling you are early in discovery. Please read all you can here on the basic principles. Take the emotional needs questionnaire and compare answers, print out how affairs start and give it to her.<BR> Tell her more than 50% of marriages face this trauma, she is not a horrible person, she just made a really bad choice.<BR> Also read up on the "fog" she is in.<BR>Dont expect remorse, she broke it but you will need to fix it for now. ITS NOT FAIR but it is real.<BR> I usually post in recovery just happened to see you, and I remember how I wanted H to cry and beg for forgiveness, tell me he lost his mind, she was a horrible person with bewitching powers..........he didnt. He went through bad withdrawel from her, he was angry I busted up his fantasy,he really saw no way out of his pain. Now he says "what was I thinking?"<BR> You will find a lot of good advice here.<BR>Dont give up!

Sad,<BR>Thanks for the advice<BR>I have tried all of your suggestions, but like i said, she won't talk to me. She refuses to go to counsel, won't fill out any of the questionaires, and will only answer specific questions - sometimes with lies!<P>I've read all the articles here but I'm still lost. I know what denial is, and I know that she is going through it, but when she won't talk, how in hell do i get her to come around????<P>Pops

POP<P>My H did the same thing with me. I wanted so bad for him to talk but he would say "I don't want to talk about it" . You can't make your W talk. Right now give her some space and don't mention the A. I did this for about 2 weeks and later I asked my H if we could talk and he did talk at that time. This worked for me and I hope it could work for you. I also left my husband little notes and once a letter telling him my feelings. No LB in the letter, just nice sweet things that I really did mean but somehow made me sick the even write, but I wrote then anyway.<P>------------------<BR>(spoken aloud from the mind) mine

POP,<P>I feel your pain my friend. Try to stay strong. My counsler told me when I first found out that the painful feelings you are haveing now are worse than a death of a loved one. I truly belive that. When my wife was in the thick fog like your wife is in now, it got to the point that I couldn't take it anymore and I knew the only thing I could do was leave. I called my counsler and told her what was happening and she agreed that by leaving for a while would give her a chance to think and also feel what it would be like to have me out of her life. Since I have kids, I had to pick them up from school and drop them off at some friends house and I explained to them that dad needed to go away for a little while because mom and I just need a break, a time to think. I told them that I love them and I will call them every day. They were fine with that, they thought I was going on a mini vacation by myself. <BR>My wife was at work and didn't know of my intentions. When she came home she found a note that I left her telling her where I went, where she needed to pick the kids up and that I didn't when or if I was comeing back. I told her not to call me. I didn't want to talk but I did say that I will be calling the kids everyday at 5pm. <BR>In doing so, I was being honest with her, she knew where I was (my sister, 200mi away) so she knew I wasn't out possably doing somthing crazy. I took the train and it was nice, it gave me a chance to read "Getting the Love You want" by Harville Hendrix. Very good book. I learned alot about myself from that book. <BR>Well leaving was very painful too, I felt doomed. I didn't know what was going on in her head, and that was killing me the most. I couldn't stand it, by the next day I had to call her mostly because I wanted to tell her what I had learned about myself from reading that book and that she needed to make a disision. I took the opportunity to throw a couple of jabs at the OM telling her that he will dump her as soon as the thrill is gone and some other cute young thing comes along. I told her that what she had was a fantasy, it wasn't real. She never saw his bad side, he only told her and showed her only what she wanted to see and hear just so he could have his cake and eat it too. I also told her that if she needed closure, then go get it. Call him up, go see him what ever, do what you have to do. I also told her some reality. I knew what the OM was like around kids, he was mean to his kids, I reminded her of that and I told her that I would fight for custody because I didn't want that man near my kids. <BR>I also told her that I saw him with another woman. (I wasn't sure if it was really him but I thought what the heck, plant a seed of doubt in her head, kind of like flipping the fog lights on so mabey she could see a little clearer. <BR>Well to make a long story short, it worked. Later she thanked me for giving her space and time to think. Of course she called him emediatly to find out about the possable OW. She stayed in her room for days only to come out and feed the kids and such. She cryed and cryed and she did call OM to tell him it was over! She told him that me and the kids ment more to her and that he was a big mistake and the A should never of happened. By the third day she called me and said she needed me to come home, she missed me. She didn't like me being apart from her. She was at the train station waiting for me.<BR>I'm not saying this is what you should do but I'm just letting you know what happend to me. By the grace of God it all worked out and my recovery is doing good. 14 months now. There is hope, don't give up. Mabey space is what she needs. I do think that you should find a counsler to talk to even if she wont go. It will help you a bunch. Good luck my friend. <P>Stillhurts (but not anymore)

Hey folks,<BR>Your words are inspiring, and at times, I am hopeful. At other times I get so frustrated and angry at the fact that she would or could do something so darned hurtful to me.<P>She still calls the OM on her cell phone, thinking that I don't know about it. She is probably meeting him for lunch at work everyday. It hurts that she can talk to him, but can't bring herself to talk to me.<P>I have watched myself with LB's and although I have done pretty good so far - only a few - I just don't know how much longer I can offer my love to someone who can be so dishonest and disrespectful. I just don't feel like loving right now, so lately, I have used work as an excuse and avoided her on her time off from work.<P>There is only so much a person can do, I realize that, but my need right now - to stop the pain - is not being met. Sometimes I can't help but repeat what a fellow MBer said to me (in so many words)<P>Life is too short to give your love to someone who doesn't deserve it...it may be time to move on and find someone who can use it.<P>Thanks for your posts, keep 'em comin'<P>Pops

Pop,<P>I just read your post on the other thread about writing a letter of a fictional A you had so she would know what it felt like. <P>Oh boy....this is why she's not talking to you. I hope you told her that it was not true. I think you should also tell her that it was a mistake and you are truly sorry. That was a major LB. Mabey you could tell her that you were so upset that you thought a letter like that was the right thing to do but now you realize that it was a mistake. <P>I talked to my wife (WS) about your problem and she agreed that she needs space. I also was e-mailing her constantly and calling her trying to get her to "come around" and it just pushed her away even more. It smothered her and made her dislike me more and more. <P>Pop, you need to talk to a counsler, I never talked to any counsters here an MB but I hear good things, check it out. <BR>Good luck my friend.<P>SH

Pop, <P>Did you read "WATS Quick start Guidlines for BS's" by worthatry? Good stuff.<P>SH<P>

Stilhurts,<BR>I know that I made a big mistake with that letter, and I have let her know that it was a mistake. I told her just what you said I should do.<P>After asking her a few questions last night, I realized that she is not finished with her A and that we both could use some time away from each other. I agreed to leave because of our daughter, she is used to having daddy gone, but because I don't have any close friends that I could confide in about this, I would have to check into a motel room - which, is not financially the right decision.<P>I told her that I can't live with her still in contact with OM. I told her that she can't have us both - that she must choose. I also told her that if she chooses me, then we could both stay here.<P>This was only about 10 minutes ago, and she simply said that if we can't afford for me to leave, then I couldn't do it. She walked out the door saying that she will be back in couple of hours, so I don't know what to think here.<P>I am quite sure that she went to her sister's to talk with her and perhaps see if she could stay there. But I just don't know why she has to be so secretive about it. I know she is upset, but it just bothers me to know that she can't tell me what her plans are.<P>Right now, it feels like my heart is gonna explode. My daughter is downstairs with a friend, clueless as to what is happening, and before mom packs her stuff to go, we both need to sit down with her and try to explain some of the things that are going on with her mother and I. That's going to be pretty painful in itself.<P>I think I am doing the right thing by giving her space, but it sure feels like someone just ripped my heart out of my chest and stomped on with cleats.<P>Pops

Pops,<P>Stay strong! Be patient! I hope I caught you before you talk to your daughter. Remember that wether this whole thing works out or not, your daughter will and always will be your highest priority. She dosn't need to know everything and the less she knows the better. While my wife and I were going to hell and back some how we managed to keep the kids in the dark regarding the A. Its okey to say "we are haveing problems and we are working things out, don't worry we love you very much" becase if this all does workout for the good in the end and you remain a solid happy family, you will be glad that your kids didn't know. I sure am. <BR>I also feel that it is important that the mother stays home. Pops, you might be surrprised at the support you will recieve if you ask a friend for help in this,the hardest time in your life. I remember that when I told my best friend what happend it hurt him deeply and even made him feel sick because never in his wildest dreams did he ever think somthing like this could happen to us. "The ideal family" His understanding and support helped me emensly! He assured me that if I needed a place to stay that I was always welcome. Fortunatly my sister was there for me too and that was my choice for a time out. <BR>Your wife needs space, you just through her into a state of shock that she was not expecting. She never wanted you to find out about her secret life and deep down she probable feels ugly for what she did. <P>Did you read WATS thread? If so read it again. My friend I don't have all the answers but your words caught my eye and it reminds me of the hell I went through and I feel your pain, you are not alone! I will keep looking for you and I will post anything I can think of that might help you. Others will chime in too. Hang in there my friend.<P>SH

SH,<BR>I'm amazed that even in the darkest of times, even when it hurts the most, that I am able to think clearly. I spoke with my daughter, and told her almost verbatim, the same thing you wrote.<P>Your assurance feels so good to me. I know that my daughter is the most important thing in the world to me right now, but I also know that there are certain things that make it impossible for me to leave. <P>She still hasn't come home yet, and like i said, she didn't tell me her plan either. I didn't want to push her out the door, into the arms of another man, but I really think that's what I have done.<P>I've felt the despair, and I know that it just might be time to move on. I know, beyond a doubt, that I will not be able to trust her again. I know that she will do this to me again when I have to leave. Right now, I just feel like putting the house up for sale and start dividing up our assets.<P>I guess I just can't take the fact that she would choose him over me.<P>I'm here, looking for your posts.<P>Pops

"Right now, I just feel like putting the house up for sale and start dividing up our assets.<P>I guess I just can't take the fact that she would choose him over me."<P>Pops[/B][/QUOTE]<P>Pops,<P>Be patient! Be strong! I hear what you are saying but you might be jumping to conclusions. Remember she is very sad and confused right now too. Try to give her space, give her time to think. You said in an earlyer post that she told you that she still loves you. Believe that and hold on to those words. Don't confront her now about the A, OM, or her plans right now. If you leaving now is out of the question, avoid confrontations, now is not the time. I know it's hard and you are hurting and confused. Keep posting and venting here. Try to stay busy, do things constructive around the house. Spend time with your daughter. In doing these things it will give your wife the space she needs right now. It will also help keep your mind in a better place. <P>I want to tell you again be patiant even though it will be very hard. Remember this, you don't want to find yourself later on in life wondering "did I do everything possible to save my marriage and my family"? <P>You have been together with your wife through good times and bad for a very long time. The counselor told me to look at the big picture, 10 or 20 years down the road you and your wife could look back and see this as a "bump in the road" and also a new beggining. What I am trying to say is don't be to quick to give up.<P>One more thing I want to say. When this whole thing happend to me, it was a wake up call for me. Its like God was trying to get my attention for a long time and I wouldn't listen. It wasn't until this that made me stop and really pay attention to him. Not only did he save my marriage, he changed my life. <P>My prayers are with you, hang in there.<P>SH

SH,<BR>Still sitting here waiting for WS to show back up; tears running down my cheeks; patience wearing really thin; wondering how it will turn out.<P>Yeah, she said that she still loved me, but just a few moments ago, my dog jumped on my lap, knowing that I felt like S**T, and I also realized that I love her too, but not the same way. It made me feel pretty good that a DOG would sense something was wrong; but on the other hand, it made me feel pretty bad when I realized that my W couldn't, or just wouldn't console me about it.<P>I just feel too hurt right now. I keep asking myself why I continue to inflict pain on myself, and never get an answer. One of my biggest flaws is my lack of patience. How long can I wait for something that has been mine for 20 years now? How can I justify that I am doing the right thing by letting her leave? A part of my mind tells me that she will actually be happier since she can live her life without me. Why not let her?<P>Sorry about all the tears on the keyboard. I just hope that I can finish writing this before the damned thing shorts out here.<P>Thanks for being here SH...although what you say brings up some emotions that I really can't deal with right now, you bring light to the subject!<P>Pops

Pops,<P>Looking back I remember the pain and the buckets of tears I also filled. I remember wanting her to see and feel my pain for what she did. It only backfired! The last thing your wife wants or needs is to see you crying. It will only push her away. Belive me she is hurting too and for her to try and feel your pain too is more than she wants to bear. Try to be strong. Give her space, she knows you are hurting inside. This is not the end of the world! Hang tough and don't let your mind take you to places that will bring you down. If a bad thought comes in your mind, right away, picture a big red STOP sign in front of your face and then think of good thoughts, fishing, hunting, hiking... Don't let your mind bring you down! Take control of your mind, you have to be strong, you can do it. Get out and burn some energy, put some tennis shoes on and run or fast walk around the neiborhood. Make sure you are taking care of yourself, pay attention to you. If you still feel like you need to vent come back here and unload, don't unload on your wife. <P>SH<P><BR>P.S. I am going to be gone for a few hours but I will be back to check on you. You are going to be okey!<BR><p>[This message has been edited by stillhurts (edited September 16, 2001).]

Pop,<BR> Have you been married 20 years????<BR>Anyway I know the feeling of hope and then 10 secounds later hopelessness.<BR>I am sorry you have to do this.<BR>Before you throw in the towel look back on your marriage, it is worth saving if there have been more good times than bad.<BR> If she does go most affairs burn out in the first 6 mos. try to hold on.

Pops,<P>Have you looked into some books yet? "Surviving an Affair" is very helpful. I think you need to start a plan "A". Read up on it, it should help you.<P>SH

Hi popeye:<BR>Beleive me I wish I were not chatting with you and I did not know how you feel. I am starting my wifes second affair she does not talk to me either she lets things build in her has a affair tries to drive me off I think. I really do not know<BR>What I tell her and I do not know if you believe the same way I do or not. "I do not believe in vary much but with all my heart I think our daughter needs to have a mother and father that love each other and are living with her in the same house" With that said what do you need to keep the family together. Read surviving a affair. When my wife told me about this second affair she expected me to throw her out. She has said she wanted a divorce that was slmodt 3 weeks ago. She is still seeing the guy and will not stop or agree to stop. I really think she is testing herself. If she can not see him and stay away from him she will give up on our marriage. She talks to me vary little and when she does a lot of what she says hurts. I have admitted my mistakes and boy have I made alot of them. I looked at our wedding pictures this weekend and cryed for 2 hours. She went out side and played with our daughter while daddy made a fool of himself. I have tried begging , pleading,I have thought about letting her just continue the affair untill it dies. I just have a problem with her having sex with anyone else. All of this to keep our marriage together. I think If I took our daughter she would agree to stay with me but do you really want that. Somehow I think your wife is doing the same thing. You know what plan A is it is pure hell for you believe me I know. Be normal( what the hell is normal) meet her needs. Give yourself and all of yourself you will know why I cry so much. Talk to a real marriage counslor one that believes in marriage. The one we went to 8 years ago was going through her second divorce and if we would have gone much longer I would have gone though my first. Be careful you need someone to talk to.This is funny my wife is serously thinking about divorce we are going to the Marriage Builders Workshop in Dallas this week. We have made arangement for one of my wifes friends we both trust to watch my daughter for 3 nights. My wife will not let me admit to her friend that we are going to try to learn about love and our marriage is in trouble. there is such big denial going on in her mind talking may not be possible. The fog may be. Give up on the apology it will not come> I feel I drove my wife to this affair because I wanted answers to the last one. She was not thinking about it so this time she has been watching and learning. My drive right now is to get her to reaffirm our marriage vows. Meet her needs and get her to fall madly in love with me again. The pain I am going though is tremondus(just like you). This whole thing is a script and we all follow it. I am trying to forget the past and do what is best for the future. This is exceptionaly hard for me because I love the past. It is now vary selective. Rember the good times the pain will fade. Stop thinking about what could or should. YOUR DAUGHTER NEEDS A HER MOMMY AND DADDY. now go do what it takes and good luck. I will try to keep in touch and I hope you get something out of my bad typing<BR>

Pops, just browsing and noticed your situation. YOu can read about me on Portland. I'm the WS. married 18,together almost 26, highschool sweethearts. there is so much to our life together. but he's not talking about it. that's my biggest problem. i hate the no communication, i gave him a packet from MB and a note, but he never commented to me if he read it or not. i just know, if my husband were like you, wanted to talk etc, then we'd get through the pain quicker. but, here we are, similar situations, waiting.... that's what i will do. keep life as normal as possible, even tho i get frustrated and want to turn it all in. do the same. keep living together, sharing, even if its just surface stuff, eventually i think time will heal this...