Okay, this is probably just part of the roller coaster ride that I'm going through, but I sure as hell do feel good today! <P>I've been spending much time at work, and remembered how to have fun there again! I took my sorry [censored] back to the house and want to get on with my life. My self confidence is back, and I actually feel like a man again for the first time in several weeks now! I just hope this feeling will last!<P>I woke up this morning, crying my eyes out while getting ready for work. Then on the way to work, trying to gain some composer back, I told myself that it just doesn't matter anymore. I know that I have to accept the fate of the pending decision that she has to make. I'll continue to show her that I love her and try to stay away from LBing, but I will just wait to see when she decides. I guess that's what all this material on this site tries to prepare you for, and I hope I can continue doing it!<P>Thanks SH, Ali, and everyone else for your support. I'll keep you all updated on where I'm at, hopefully on a daily basis.<P>Laterz<BR>Pops

"I'll continue to show her that I love her and try to stay away from LBing"<P>Pops,<P>Right on! You're going to be okey. It wont hurt to make some deposets in her love bank, it will only help. Also if she shows you any signs that she is feeling better or signs of happieness, go with it. Try not to say something like "what about me, I feel like s***" Try to join her in here moment on joy. That is one of my biggest problems, bringing her down when she trys to tell me she is doing better. Thats what causes them to clam up and stop talking to you. I am reading "His needs Her needs" and boy is it opening my eyes. I highly recomend it to you. I too am fairly new here and have alott to learn but one thing I do know very well is what the pain feels like that you are going through now. I assure you it will get better. <P>SH

SH,<BR>Still smiling here...I had a tough time keeping that smile on my face last night though when she just seemed so angry with me. I only asked her what was on her mind just once, and brought up the counselor again. She snapped at me, telling me that I shouldn't try to hurry her. I think by moving back home, I have ruined her plans for the weekend. But that doesn't matter to me.<P>I also told her that I would do what it takes to try and trust her, as long as she is honest with me. But that's about the extent of the conversation that we had last night.<P>I had to bite my lip to keep from saying hurtful things to her, and I'm sure that some of the things that I said to her might have hurt a bit. I think this approach will work! I really hope I can keep this spirit up and continue to show her that I love her.<P>It's gonna get harder from here on out to keep the smiles on my face, especially if she continues to be angry with me, but so far, I'm doing it!<P>As far as reading goes, I haven't purchased any books just yet. I'm hoping that I can convince her into seeing a counselor first, then, maybe we can agree together to pick up a few books on the subject. <P>Thanks for being here for me SH...your words and attitude really have helped a lot.<P>Pops

Pop<BR> glad to hear you are on the upside of the coaster,remember this when you are down, it will come back up again if you give it time( and bite your tongue - I think I bit mine off!)<BR> I do want to encourage you to get the book Torn Assunder by Carder - I wish I would have had it from day 1. If she doesnt want to go to counseling go without her - keep smiling, its easier to fall in love with a happy person than a blue one.<BR>Good Luck

Hey Pops,<P>I'm glad to hear you are doing good. Sadprinces took the words right out of my mouth, I wouldn't wait, these books will give you much needed information. You are navigating uncharted waters, these books will help keep you from running aground. You are doing good, hang in there.<P>SH

SH, and SP<BR>I'm still on top here, but I can feel it slipping every now and then. When she says something that hurts, or doesn't say anything that hurts, I find myself just thinking about how much I love her. That's it, it's enough to help.<P>Last night, I put my arms around her (cold, folded arms, looking away from me), and asked her what was on her mind. She told me that I think everything is just "hunky dorie" and that there isn't a problem. I answered her with a question, "Is there a problem?". She got more angry with me and continued not talking to me. There are times like this that I think she is going to open up to me, but at the last minute, she backs down and clams up. Maybe one day, she will figure out that I am here for her no matter what. <P>I know that it's time for patients, and that's something that I have always very little of. But I'm still smiling, and will continue to for as long as I can.<P>Thanks for your suggestions and support folks...keep posting.<P>Pops

"She told me that I think everything is just "hunky dorie" and that there isn't a problem. I answered her with a question, "Is there a problem?". She got more angry with me and continued not talking to me." <P>Pops,<P> I hear a hint of sarcasim to say the least. Of course there is a problem, a big problem and if you don't do somthing about it, its just going to get worse. I don't know all of your history but from what I've read and what I've been through, the whole reason my wife had an A, is because I wasn't meeting her needs and guess what? Just like in your case, some shmuck came along and did it for me. I had no clue anything was wrong, I was happy as could be but over a long period of time it got to the point that she wouldn't tell me what was wrong with our marraige because every time she tried to in the past I would convince her that everything was all right. <P>Your WS seems very bitter. First of all her secret is no longer a secret and the emotional high she was getting just got blown apart. Now you need to play your cards right or you are not going to win her heart back. This is why we are all suggesting that you seek help from a counslor and if thats not possable, these books that we recomended are a must. Pops, don't wait for her to make the first move! You need to jump in the drivers seat and take control before its too late. The books and or counslor will help you learn what she was missing in your marriage, how to make changes in you to make her desire you again and how to comunicate so she wont "clam up". <BR>When we said be patient with her it was at a time when you were so distraught and in pain that trying to get her to talk then was not going to benifit you or her. In fact, she probably doesn't know herself how to tell you what she wants or needs. Thats why you need outside help. You've got work to do my friend, don't wait.<P>Stillhurts

SH,<BR>The books are on order, but I don't know how that will get her to talk to me. I can read anything in the world about the subject, but if she's not ready to tell me whats on her mind, its of no use.<P>I did ask her if she was confused about the way I feel, and the answer was a resounding YES. I am also confused about why I am in such good spirits, but I don't question the feeling. I'm much more productive when I'm in a good mood and it seems that nothing, not even her coldness can make it go away. Perhaps I just don't want to fix this thing as much as I thought I did? Maybe I am the one who wants to end this and move on?<P>I can't look towards the future right now, nor can I dwell on the past - both memories of the way she used to love me, and the thought of her with another man are entirely too painful for me to even think straight. The only thing that I have going for me is the here and now. Moment by moment. I don't know what to expect, nor do I know if I will ever forgive her once the bitterness she has for me is gone. Maybe these are some of the things that some reading material could help me with.<P>The only thing that I really want from her right now is her love back. At least some sign that she remembers how much she used to show her love, concern and care. Then, and only then, will I be able to get on with life to see what the next step will be.<P>I'll read the books, but with reservations on how printed words can get me to understand what she is missing from our marriage. She is the only one who knows what, if anything, I can do to make her happy. I can only hope that she will open up one day and let me in on the big secret.<P>I don't mean to sound like I don't want the help, it just seems that sometimes this situation is just completely helpless.<P>Thanks again,<BR>Pops

<BR>Hey Pops,<P>I hear ya. I guess when I look back I remember my WS telling me that she did not want the same marriage that we had. I hated to hear that because I liked the marriage we had. She had alot of isues and it took awhile to get it out and the counslor really helped. I also know that she didn't want words she wanted changes and actions. In your case it is tough since she won't talk, I wonder if you did things different, out of the ordenary, surprise her with somthing special like cook dinner or something but don't expect sex or anything in return. (It will come in time) My wife loves that kind of stuff and it gets her to open up to me, she lets down her gaurd so to speak. Just a thought. Keep your spirit up. <P>SH

I had to laugh when I read "surprise her with somthing special like cook dinner or something". Only because of our work hours. Right now, I am working at least 12 hours a day, and her schedule is so mixed up that even she can't keep track of it. Dinner is something that we have to catch on the fly, sometime in between waking up and going to bed.<P>I have been thinking the same thing though. I guess what they say about great minds thinking alike...well...you know. I've just been trying to figure out what I could do for her on a big enough scale to make a difference, but still within our work schedule time contraints and everyday "soccer mom" runs. I'm sure I can figure something out. Thanks for re-enforcing what I have been thinking though.<P>Pops

good luck keep smiling

Well, the smiles are starting to fade here and there doesn't seem like there is anything that I can do about it.<P>I've been staying busy all day with work and then occupying my time at home working on the truck. That's not the hard part, I find that quite relaxing - almost theriputic at times. I just don't understand why she seems to be upset with me about all of this. I'm the one that's putting all the effort into trying to save what we have, and she says nothing. I'm the one who has to put my arms around her and tell her I love her, and she does nothing. I don't know how much longer I can stay focused when she treats me like that.<P>It just seems that she has lost so much love for me that it will never come back again. Here I am with the old towel in hand, ready to throw it in again. I know that I haven't done anything in my entire life to deserve to be treated like this - not even by my worst enemy! Hell, if it were my worst enemy, I could easily understand - but it's a woman who once loved me as much, if not more than I love her!<P>I told her the other day that I would make every effort to trust her as long as she makes every effort to be honest with me and start talking to me. So far, I've been holding up my end of the bargain quite well. It's easier than I thought to gain trust back from someone you love so much, I never would have thought it to be this simple. But as long as she keeps me in the dark about what she is doing and how she is feeling, there will always be that "doubt" in the back of my mind. I guess that's where the trust got lost from before and started my snooping around.<P>Sometimes, I wish that I didn't know anything about what she did, or is probably still doing behind my back. I think I could live like that - looking like a fool in front of all her friends, as long as I could feel her love again.<P>Well, I just caught myself rambling here, but there was just a few things that I had to get off my chest. Still waiting on the books to get here, and wondering how they could possibly help this grim situation.<P>Thanks for being here folks - this is a great place to vent and talk about things that I can't talk about anywhere else.<P>This place is the perfect shoulder to cry on, and it really does help, even to just get things off your mind.<P>Pops

Hang in there Pops, I hear you loud and clear. I do belive that the books will help you to find that love again that you are looking for. Try not to throw in the towel just yet, I was there too and I kept telling myself that I don't want to go the rest of my life wondering if I did all that I could do to bring that girl I fell in love with and married back into my life. Educate yourself. Learn what exactly went wrong to cause your marriage to fall into this mess and start from there to fix the problem. <P>Remember, your account in her "Love Bank" is at an all time low and you need keep making deposets without makeing any withdrawls to build it back up, just like you did when you first started dating her. Watch what happens......<P>Keep coming here to vent or ask qustions we are rootin for ya.<P>SH

Well, here I am, about half way through the first book. I'm pretty sure that I could have wrote most of that material. Again, I am lost as to where the value of reading up on this is for me. I could understand if she were to read it, and understand why things like this happen, but it doesn't help me understand what went wrong in our M that she needed to resort to an A.<P>She claims that she hasn't called or chatted with the OM in over a week. I want to believe, but past untrustworthiness has kept that from really happening. My mind wants to believe that she is still in contact with him, and she is trying to validate her EA with him to see if they can make it to PA. I think she might be afraid that he will run and hide from her. Should I e-mail him to let him know that I am her H and very much still alive?<P>Pops

Could she be angry with you for showing her these changes now, the kinds of things she wanted you to do years ago, before A? Could she be thinking "If he had done this before, I wouldn't have had the A."? Make no mistake, from what I have read on the web and elsewhere, most WS's fell intense guilt and self loathing that they resorted to an affair...<P>BTW, I think it is not a good idea to show her physical affection if she clearly doesn't like it...that's a LB. YOU like it, but meeting HER emotional needs is what Plan A is about...there are LOTS of other ways to show affection at this point...most women like men to DO things for them, without being asked. <P>A simple thing, if my H ever made the beds, I was always thankful (shows you how much housework he did - but I didn't mind). If he picked up milk or bread or my favourite magazine on the way home, that was just so thoughtful. She needs to see other things from you than the hugs, and I'm not saying you don't do all you can. What I'm saying is that clearly she is not keen on hugging you right now, so don't.<P>Even say to her, "Honey I can see you aren't comfortable with me hugging you...I don't want to cause you pain, so I will stop doing it until you want me to again." Yeah I know, self sacrificing, but be true to your Plan A.<P>Jacky

Jackie,<BR>I value your advice so much that I tried it. I told her that I know that she is uncomfortable with my touching her, and that I won't do it anymore unless she wants me to. Her response - silence. She squirmed a little bit, as though she were uncomfortable now, and I sensed that she was about to put her arms around me - but still, silence, and no embrace.<P>Self sacrifice is right. I hate not touching - not feeling love from her. At least when I "stole" hugs from her, she did put her arms around me, and it made me feel better. Even today, I suggested that we have sex - she said she had to do something else, but I told her that she do that afterwards, then she motioned me to the bedroom. I couldn't believe that she was willing! I thought I had LB'ed entirely too much for her to want me. I suppose her wants and desires are much different than I thought they were.<P>Since then, I suggested an evening out where we could enjoy each other's company, but she needed to study for her test, and I needed to work on the car. We both agreed that it wasn't a good idea, but our work schedule won't allow it for at least another week. I kinda feel disappointed about not taking the opportunity while it was here.<P>Anyway, my last question still lingers. Should I email the OM to let him know that I am a real person?<P>Pops

Hi again,<P>NOPE! Don't email...ooohhh! I want to do that SO bad!!! But you know what? It will be used against you. They'll talk, and agree that you're a crazy man, and no wonder she left.<P>See why it's a bad idea?<P>Instead, write the letter, things you'd love to say, then tear it up...I find just the act of writing gets it out. But not sending it keeps me out of trouble!<P>Love and light,<P>Jacky

Hi Pops,<P>Well, my answer to your question.... Yes<P>When I found out that my wife was having an A, I was on the phone within minutes and I am not sorry one bit. I too wanted him to know that I was real and some one that he now must deal with which was not at all what he had bargened for when he decided to mess with someone elses wife. It put him into shock and I truly believe that it helped to split them up. Be advised though, anything you say to him will get right back to her. So..... Don't say things like <BR>"I adored her" say "I adore her" or "I loved her more than anyone could" say "I love her and ALWAYS will love her..."do you get what I mean? Be carful what you say I know, I was there. I also told him that now you have me to deal with. He didn't like to hear that one bit. <P>When I look back though, I think what was more important was the work that needed to be done at home. I did make the mistake of trying too hard and it just pushed her away. Although, little things are what mattered the most. She tells me now things like, when we were at a friends house and I would wink at her from across the room. That ment more to her than me sending her flowers to her work. Go figure. She also noted that when I said something that was edifying regarding her at a party and she was within ear shot, that really knocked her sockes off. Those are little things that mean a great deal to a woman. <BR>I hope this helps, and by the way, he knows you are alive and real but he is probably trying to ignore the fact. A booster shot never hurts. JMHO<P>Stillhurts

Just a thought Pop,<BR> It seems you are both soooo busy. She has probably filled up her life with "other" stuff cuz she was lonely. Is she important to you or not??? Is your marriage important or not???? Tell her YOU are the most important thing to me in the world. Then do something to PROVE it. Something she wouldnt expect you to do, totaly out of character, call in sick to work to take her somewhere,to the park, fishing,hiking. Somewhere you will be alone and quiet for quiet for a while, then dont say anything! BE QUIET Wait for her to talk and LISTEN. She has given you clues but your not getting them.<BR> She says you act like everything is hunky dory.<BR> She doesnt take to your physical advances.<BR> She says I have to study, you have to work on truck.<BR> Maybe we can get together NEXT WEEK??????<BR>This Lady doesnt feel important and special to you anymore.<BR>I bet when you were dating you went out of your way just to see her for a minute, you were never too busy to talk to her.<BR>Your problem right now is not the other man its finding out what she really needs, not what you think she needs, you are talking different languages.<BR>Good Luck dont give up yet, she is still home, she is still looking for what she needs.<BR>

Sad,<BR>You are a smart cookie. I see your point, and since the truck is almost finished, I think I might start working on her. She IS the most important thing to me, and I think that you are right - I haven't proven that to her. I think by simply telling her, she doens't really get the point - are all women as hard to get along with? (just a little humor).<P>A few years ago, I made arrangements for her to have a weekend off without her knowing. Then I packed some things, and picked her up from work and we drove to a little motel room in a small down north of here (Bar Harbor). It was a weekend of passion, sex, and just the two of us. We both enjoyed each other immensely that weekend. <P>I think that my only problem is that I think big. I want it all and I want it now sort of attitude - you know the type. So I guess I should start thinking on a not so grand scale and go with simple and straight forward.<P>Thanks for the advice Princess...I'll get right to work planning the entire week.<P>Pops