Hi - this is me in shock. Yes, I've been up all night. D-day 1, Jan '01. D-day 2 (continued contact) Aug 6 '01. Although we have been "working on things" and H has made several changes, I just discovered why it has felt so superficial and the intimacy/connectedness is not really there. Please stay with me and help if you can - I am reaching the desparation point.<P>My MB friends have been good teachers in the art of effective snooping. Although I have tried really hard to resist this temptation, I know that my gut has been right once again. I discovered several sites my H has frequented and it confirmed my suspicions. Porn, ads, chat rooms, and another e-mail account with flirtatious (not hard core) banter back and forth with several women (one known to me). I'm getting ahead of myself - I did not see the e-mails until after confrontation when he allowed be access (not sure if this openess should be regarded as a blessing, in it's honesty, or another nail in the coffin). OK, back in sequence...I confronted H. He would not in anyway come forward with any information until he realized I knew. Then he logged me on to e-mail and started talking. I always new there was more and intertwined with his attempts to rebuild trust and work on our marriage, I would feel this cold, distant, palpable void between us. It was the lies. I've had so many lies already, but my gut told me there was more. That's why I kept looking. I was right.<P>I am sick, I am tired, I am wondering how in hell I am going to look after my children, go to work. I have already been fighting this for a year (and much longer if you count the endless years of a dead marriage with a partner who would not work on it). He cried, we both cried. He told me more (2 previous affairs - one-night stands I think, and, are you seated?? He participated in a threesome with another couple he responded to their ad). I told him that we cannot have any progress whatsoever as long as one lie or secret exists between us. Lies and secrets absolutely demolish intimacy. He agreed and accepts full responsibility for the destructive way he has tried to cope with our marital problems. He now says he does really love me under all of the other stuff. He says he wants to "flush it all out" (confess the lies) and move forward. I expressed my fears to him that it was not as simple as him turning this "switch" off and ending these behaviors as he is obviously getting something out of it and he has behaved this way for so long. He also confessed to more 'threesomes' prior to our relationship. Is this type of behaviour indicative of sex addiction, internet addiction, etc.? What should I do? What should he do? Please help with any suggestions, experiences - I would like my H to read these replies as well. I believe that he is a good man under this - I have believed in him a long time. I think he's got some real problems - am I naive? Help - I'm not sure what to do.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I expressed my fears to him that it was not as simple as him turning this "switch" off and ending these behaviors as he is obviously getting something out of it and he has behaved this way for so long. He also confessed to more 'threesomes' prior to our relationship.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Currently, H and I are not actively swinging but we have. A mutually agreed decision. I tell you this not to "sell" swinging to you, but to point out that you're getting a response from a different mindset than yours...and hopefully in a helpful way! <P>Will your H fill out the MB questionnaires with you? I think it would be wonderful if your H will explore this site with you and adopt MB concepts to build a better relationship. It sounds like he's willing to try and that's great! <P>I don't know if your H suffers from sexual addictions or not. But certainly he has developed a secretive aspect to his life that did not include your wishes. He has gone outside the marriage for SF. <P>Has your H told you everything yet? Is there anything YOU need to confess to him?--thoughts, feelings, any hidden agendas. I'm a firm believer of radical honesty. There's great benefits to it but it's not always a pretty picture. To me, it's truthful reality and a quicker way to healing in the long run. We don't always feel equipped to HEAR the truth but without acceptance of it, what are we basing our views on...just a fantasy of how we want the relationship?<P>How do you both feel about the Policy of Joint Agreement? <I>"Never do anything without the enthusastic agreement of your partner."</I> Many times couples have difficulty with this because it seems like a tug-of-war on extreme subjects. Yes, extreme subjects WILL start out that way. But keep talking...keep brainstorming toward mutual happiness. It is hurtful and counterproductive to any relationship for one to benefit at the expense of the other. <P>One particular conversation tool H and I use quite often is "what if." We ask each other probing questions about any scenario..."what if this or that happened," and share our feelings. Our answers to each other are not always what the other would like to hear. But we've learned we don't have to agree with other to <I>accept</I> the other's viewpoint. And, we can learn to adapt our behaviors respectfully.<P>In your situation in discussions along the way, I think important "what ifs" would be about swinging and affairs. How will these thoughts and feelings be handled in the future? In a calm discussion devoid of lovebusters (and if/when you're comfortable with the idea), ask questions like: "Do you think you'll want to experience another threesome?" "Have you ever wished you could ask ME to be involved in a threesome with you? Why (or why not)?" "What if I confessed to a threesome myself?--how would you feel?" "Are there other ways you'd like to try to enhance our SF without going outside the marriage?" "Do you think I'd find chatting online with other people about sex interesting and informative?--what do YOU like about it?" "In your opinion, if I did [like it], would I be susceptible to a physical affair?" "What if *I* had an affair now, should I tell you?--how would the knowledge make you feel?" Ask your H to play along with questions of his own. Share your feelings with him.<P>I realize this may seem like an odd way to get to the truth. But I really do believe it's an important fact and feelings finding conversation tool, a way to learn more about your spouse and yourself. What will work or not. And a way to get your spouse to open up and know it's okay to talk about anything (though <I>doing</I> something might be a different matter). <P>Since affairs have occurred, please, both of you make an appointment with your doctor to test for STD's. Sable's H, if you're reading this, please also don't put sable into a position of having to trust or not trust you if you say you used protection. It's rather a moot point anyway, better to be safe than sorrier now. <P>Sable, I really admire your strength in continuing to hang in there. A lot of problems to work out ahead of you. But remember, it's all a matter of our perceptions. Few scenarios are bigger than our ability to handle them, if we really want to. With both of you working toward a happier tomorrow, I really think you can both overcome this. Keep talking, and sharing feelings, and <I>helping</I> each other.<P>Best wishes.<P>Laura

<small>[ June 04, 2003, 09:34 PM: Message edited by: zorweb ]</small>

[Lucks and Zorweb - looks like you've given me some very good input. I can't stay right now - have printed to read and I'll be back later - thank you for being there for me

Lucks - you have really given me some things to think about. The "what if" approach to discussion sounds like a really good idea for us. As this new information sinks in, I am finding myself doing the same routine all over again - you know, reviewing your life in great detail to integrate the new info...things you didn't understand in the past now start to make sense, etc. I was curious about your comments on swinging. Don't know much about it, however even if both partners are enthusiastic about it, doesn't that leave more possibility for you spouse, or youself for that matter, to connect with one of the other partners on the side??<BR>Yes, my H and I did fill out the MB questionnaires about a month ago - mine was filled with comments and his was mostly numbers circled - the discussion that came out of it was good. We have not looked at the policy of joint agreement together yet, but that needs to happen.<BR>Re STDs - I'm gonna revisit that one too.<BR>We have actually had a pretty good day or two since the all nighter. It seems that the vulnerability shown by my h has connected us in a different way - feels good.<BR>Thank you for your support -

Zorweb - you too have given me some things to think about. Thank you for taking your time to respond. I was certainly lower than I've ever been upon discovering yet another whole, huge arena of deceit. At this point, the 2-3 year affair that I originally discovered in Jan seems like small potatoes. I read your story - wow! In my husbands second, secret e-mail account (he let me have access under duress of my confrontation), he sat with me while I read extremely flirtatious emails to 4 different women, and apparently there have been others. This whole flirting thing really has me disturbed. He has always been flirtatious - that's how he reeled me in! Over the years, I just started to tolerate it/ignore it (never liked it). Seems wherever he is, he connects with the women in the room. We have had more heated discussions about this lately - at first he referred to all of these connections as "friendships", even the e-mails. However sexual inuendo seems to permeate all of these contacts. I'm actually feeling sort of embarassed and kind of pity him for degrading himself in a way - he jusst seems to look like the "easiest hit in the room" wherever we go.<BR>I e-mailed three of the women back with short, brief comments like "hello, this is cutie's wife...blah, blah, blah. One has e-mailed me back saying she has never had any indiscretions with my H and people should be allowed to have friendships outside of marriage. Then went on to say that her husband had an affair 3 years ago and she was guessing that was my problem and perhaps we could talk and she could help me out (I'm staying WAY clear of that offer!) Anyway, I'm rambling. I will check out the sexual addiction stuff. I am worried my H will have much more difficulty cutting this off than he says he will. I will also talk with him re monitoring software.<BR>Thank Zorweb - I have read your other posts and you put a lot into helping others. I hope you and your H are recovering well -