We were suppose to sit and talk about honesty<BR>tonight. WRONG thing. I'm being calm and he<BR>begins to get aggitated then anger and anger<BR>until TAMTRUM ensued. I then told him he would NOT do this and if he continued to get out. <P>WORSE, much worse. H has never acted THAT badly before. He would not leave. Then he did. I locked the doors and it wasn't two minutes he came back. Had key, and was VERY<BR>ANGRY with me. How dare I do that. By this time gang I could not remain calm because I am scared. He starts getting loud, So did I<BR>until I was overcome with emotions from all the stress I yelled and he came at me and grabbed me and I fell to the floor, I'm trying to get away while he is on top of me and I tried to scream but he had his hand over my mouth. Mind you my D was not home.<BR>It never would have gone this far if she was.<P>That is why I waited to have talk while she<BR>was not going to be home. I knew he is reluctant to work on this with me but for crying out loud this is TOO MUCH. I tried to leave, I was on foot. I can't drive is truck,<BR>standard shift. That's another story.<BR>He came after me and forced me back into house. By this time I am so broken inside and I sat down at kitchen table. We began to talk and he started his lying and playing dumb. I couldn't take it. He insisted we go into bedroom to talk. I was forced again and <BR>tired of this. I began swinging and going crazy. I accidently hit him somewhere on his face. He was on top of me again. He of course accused me of intentially hitting him.<BR>I did not. I just couldn't take this and lost all control. Why would a man allow things to get so out of hand because he wanted to protect his secrets. Are they more important than me? That is how I feel right now. I told him I don't want this anymore. <P>For two weeks or so he tried being someone he isn't. Being nice and helpful, comforting and attentive. Willing to talk whenever I wanted and even when I didn't feel like it. I tried being like I use to and have been with him, and I guess he began to feel comfortable <BR>again and began to take advantage. Slipping back into his selfishness and ignoring me and my feelings again. He has NEVER acted like this. Yes he has had tantrums but THIS. He<BR>drank a whole bottle of wine when he first became angry after I told him to leave. This<BR>also is totally unlike him. It's like he wants his cake and eat it too. Keep me, but not work on this with me, and for me to ignore what he does and just be happy he is providing for me and D. <P>I don't know what is going to become of this.<BR>Right now, he is asleep in our bedroom. I didn't want him in there, but..... And D came home and I did not want her to know anything was wrong. So I covered up any upset emotions and she suppects nothing. All this time I have kept this from her and I intend to. I<BR>will not have her upset. I blame myself for this because I never should have asked for the truth. I hoped he was willing to be honest but he is not, really. All he has ever done his whole life is run and that's is <BR>all he knows. I and my D are not enough or important enough, I feel, and he keeps proving this. Tomorrow me and D. will go to church. Between the tears I will pray.<P>I feel bad for what happened here tonight. And feel it is all my fault. I feel like I am a bad person and all I want is someone to<BR>want us and love me and my D. He says he loves me unfortunately he does I think only when it is convenient for him. That's not what love is.

d2,<P>My heart breaks and my insides churn when I hear what you just posted. Your comment at the end scares me.<P><BR>I feel bad for what happened here tonight. And feel it is all my fault. I feel like I am a bad person and all I want is someone to<BR>want us and love me and my D. He says he loves me unfortunately he does I think only when it is convenient for him. That's not what love is.<P><BR>Don't feel bad for yourself, what happened is not your fault. Your H is the one who escalted you talk into a fight.<P>He's the one that got VIOLENT, anything you did was defence.<P>You have to lose self-pity, it will kill you already damaged esteem.<P>THERE IS NEVER AN EXCUSE FOR DOMESTIC <BR>VIOLENCE<P>I don't realy have any advice on how to handle the situation.<P>Maybe plan-b, make him leave(tomorrow after he's sobered up), call the law.<P>I don't know.<P>You are a beautiful person that IS wothy of love and respect. Don't forget that.<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

devastated2--<P>I can really FEEL your pain in your post! <P>{{{{{{{{{{{{huge hug}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Calm yourself as best you can, whether it's doing something nice for yourself or just getting some extra rest. Both you AND H have had a huge blowout...you're not thinking clearly. Step back and look at the situation. You love each other. You've BOTH made mistakes in the handling of this situation...gotta work together now!<P>Your words sound SOOOOOO much like EXACTLY the same kind of fights my H and I have had in the past (one blew up last weekend, over "nothing" as a matter of fact). You're obviously both intense, and you're both bouncing between the stages of intimacy, conflict and withdrawal. That was a moment in time where you both hit CONFLICT, and alternating withdrawal, and STRONGLY!!! <P>You are the one posting, so my next comments will be focused on your actions as you've described them in the fight. I hope you don't take offense, it's my opinion based upon what I've read (and done myself!)....in your need for understanding and soothing, you lovebusted. You made demands ("I then told him he would NOT do this and if he continued to get out."), you locked the doors to the house, and you left--I assume without stating that it was a "time-out" and you would return soon. I'm not condoning or championing the actions of either of you, I'm just showing you HOW some of your H's reactions came about. <P>You BOTH yelled. Does it REALLY matter who started it? Whatever the actions of one, an argument is an argument because someone rose to the bait, and neither controlled themselves. <P>Okay, here's the bottom line. Your H made a mistake. A big one. It sounds like he's really trying to patch things up with you ("Being nice and helpful, comforting and attentive. Willing to talk whenever I wanted and even when I didn't feel like it.") Seems like he's aware he hurt you, very much. He cannot change what happened, but he CAN change his attentiveness to your feelings and learn from his mistake. Give him credit for that! And help him along the way! I have a feeling his guilt, when he thinks about what happened, overwhelms him. He MUST think about it in talking about it with you, and that's a tough thing--to keep acknowledging a failing! Especially difficult for a man. His frustration mounts when he continues to hear your negativity (and oh, I've done it too) and while women will trudge on dwelling on the hurt, over and over, a man wants to get past it as quickly as possible. You both need to find a middle ground and you can only do it together. <P>Is it possible to chaulk up this latest communication fiasco as a time to move on, with apologies and eventual return to more harmonious living...for BOTH of you? Try to stop laying fault. I hope he does too! Sometimes, even the most difficult of situations can be discussed to the mutual satisfaction of each, if the WORDING is checked first. I'm reading a book on relationships right now where the author terms it "editing." In stressful times, think before you speak, and "edit" any harmful words before they're uttered. Then, substitute a more polite way of getting your point across. For understanding, ask the other person to mirror their translation of the words..."so, what you're saying is you felt hurt when I did that." Keep going, but gently, until the feeling is successfully understood. <P>I really have been there/done that. Blow-ups are VERY hurtful, and tend to set you back EVEN further in the process of healing. It clouds issues, produces anxiety, and active minds start imagining even worse things than the actual problem at hand. It's really horrible what we can do to ourselves, and each other. And so sad, how we can hurt the ones we love most! <P>Show him how to forgive, by your own forgiveness! BE the leader...generally speaking, women are much better at this relationship stuff because it involves feelings. We've been raised with fewer closed doors to our feelings than men, by our families and society. Help him along the way...remember, he breached a very important friendship/closeness in his life, by betraying you. I'm sure he's well aware, he's just not as equipped in dealing with it as you are...and feels just as lost as you.<P>Use this forum to vent your stronger negative feelings, that may help to lighten his guilt load (and your own emotional turbulence!) and he'll remain open to communication. If you keep him open to talking with you, you're that much closer to reconciliation where both of your needs will be met.<P>I wish you the very BEST of luck of success!<BR><P>------------------<BR>Laura<P>"I cannot care a little for you. I love you only just enough to love you all the way."~~Rod McKuen<P>

Lucks, you are so wise...<BR>devastated, please read lucks post again! <BR>This lack of communication is so frustrating to both of you...the situation has become intolerable. Both of you are acting out of character, way out of sorts! Maybe this will be something h can really look at and will go for counseling now? <BR>It happened, it is over. How to communicate, get what you need and want without having things get so out of hand? Read some of the harley material on needs. There are a lot of good books on marraige communication skills. Maybe a counselor can help the two of you start off? Writing things dwon has always helped me express total frustration. Maybe the two of you can exchange letters and see if that will help with the first few steps? <BR>Learn from the mistakes and go forward! cl

Ahhhhh....cl....maybe a little wise but it's straight from experience. And the little wisdom I've obtained still flies right out the window sometimes!<P>I hope devastated2 and her H are better now?<P>Please post, and let us know how you're doing.<BR>

"...I yelled and he came at me and grabbed me and I fell to the floor, I'm trying to get away while he is on top of me and I tried to scream but he had his hand over my mouth."<P>"He insisted we go into bedroom to talk. I was forced again and tired of this. I began swinging and going crazy. I accidently hit him somewhere on his face. He was on top of me again. He of course accused me of intentially hitting him."<P>OHMIGOD. What are you describing here? Did he assault you? Did he rape you? ASSAULT and RAPE are NEVER acceptable!!! Maritial rape is illegal and it occurs, but is rarely punished because it is so rarely reported!!!<P>Leave this abusive man! I cannot believe that anybody could advise you that you were both at fault! "Lucks," that was the WORST advice I've ever read! NOTHING ever justifies violence, NOTHING ever justifies rape! How can ANYBODY try and blame the victim for the actions of their attacker? <P>Leave NOW before it gets worse! ...you have to take action to protect yourself and your daughter from this violent man! NO, you are NOT at fault in any way for his abuse!!! Don't listen to anybody who tries to make you feel in any way responsible for his actions! Your husband CHOOSES to be abusive, NOT YOU!!!<P>I hope you get out of this situation before I hear about it on the evening news! Another woman killed by her abusive husband, another daughter left without a mother because society blamed her for her husband's abuse, because society made her feel like she should stay in an abusive relationship...<P>------------------<BR>~~ Elixir ~~<BR>

I agree with the above comments. There are times that warrant going straight to a Plan B (No Contact) and one is definitely physical abuse. Harley even says so. You should seriously consider this direction.<P>Hugs and prayers for you. Be strong. You WILL get through this.

I agree... it went too far...<P>As I've told TNT and others in domestic violence situations:<BR><B>THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR VIOLENCE</B><P>Get out, save your daughter and yourself before it is <B>TOO LATE</B>!!!<P>~Sheryl

Elixir--<P>Sounded to me like she felt forced into the bedroom to talk, a demand she didn't like...and he was restraining her when she began swinging and hit him. They were BOTH yelling and behaving hurtfully toward each other.<P>I read nothing that clearly indicates a rape took place. Actually, I read nothing about sex occurring at all during the described timespan.<P>Additionally, "He has NEVER acted like this. Yes he has had tantrums but THIS. He drank a whole bottle of wine when he first became angry after I told him to leave. This<BR>also is totally unlike him." and she types of herself, "I just couldn't take this and lost all control."<P>And you think she should put forth NO further effort to save her marriage???<P>She is the one posting. I can't very well tell her what I think HE should do, he's not reading this. And how you got that I was BLAMING her for her H's violence is beyond me. Both displayed anger, tried to control each other while losing control of themselves, made disrespectful judgements, manipulated each other by stomping out, and they BOTH got physical. However, I read nothing where H hit her, even when he thought she intentionally hit HIM. <P>It is my opinion, Elixir, that this is not a case of domestic abuse worthy of running for the hills. However, I do feel that they need to avoid arguments at all costs while learning rational and mature communication skills.<P>You, of course, are certainly welcome to your own opinion...and have freely advised devastated2 OF your opinion...as have I.

I wondered how long it would take for someone to scream to get out of the relationship. <BR>I have to go along with lucks that this is not a case of domestic battery. Both were way out of line, both abused. WHo started what when is immaterail at this stage, and she clearly states this is the first time it happened. It is time for counseling and repair work to begin!! <BR>Devastated, try to turn this into something positive and get him into therapy. Harely would be good and he might go for the phone thing.

Lucks;<P>I'm back with an up date. Sorry this may be long, but I feel you will understand. Later that night <BR>H got up in the middle of the night and went <BR>through the house looking for me. I didn't sleep in our bed because he was sound asleep and sprawled over most of the bed and I didn't feel I could move him. So I slept in spare bedroom downstairs. He found me and asked me to come and sleep beside him. He looked so sad. Before I could say anything he picked me up and carried me to our bedroom. He held me so tight. The next morning I woke up and got ready for church,<BR>H woke up and went with us. During church I felt so detached from everything. Afterward,<BR>I read what you said, Thank you. Our arguments have never gotten out of hand like they did the night before and NO there was no sexual abuse nor did he hit me, alot of pushing and grabbing and yelling. It never escalated to a dangerous level. Perhaps it could have on his part but deep down he is not that kind of person. Emotions just got too intense. I thought about what you said, Yes, I do want to work this out and I have much work on to try and understand what he is feeling. We both have mutually agreed to WORK TOGETHER. I was not offended by your comments. In fact, you helped me a lot, more than you know. <P>Today, H had the day off from work and we focused on each other more than we have since this whole thing began. I still have insecurities and all the other emotions that come with it, but I am refocused on working this through. I know he hasn't been honest with me completely about his feelings but he has begun to tell me bits and peices of what is going on in his mind. He doesn't know how to trust I think and has much to learn.<BR>So do I. <P>I am still confused about the sexual issue concerning men and feeling close. H has never before displayed much interest at all in being sexual and NOW, he wants to do it<BR>quite often. I'm not complaining about that, <BR>it's just that I think he feels the more he does this it will prove he loves me and is trying to be close. I need to try and find a way to talk to him about this I know but I don't want to damage his male ego or his feelings. I'm not objecting to the frequency but its like he is trying to go overboard in this direction instead of mixing this with other forms of intimacy. Does this make any sense, Do I? <P>Anyway, things are much calmer right now and we are back on track to working this through.<BR>I bought some books today on relationships and communication skills. I did feel like leaving after that night but when I read your post it made me stop and think. Thank you.<BR>You may have saved me from a terrible mistake. <P>CL; Thank you for your support as well.<P>Elixir, Sidney & NB;<P>Thank you for your comments and concern. No there was no sexual assault or anything of that magnitude. And, Yes, if there had been he would be out for sure. Emotions just got too intense and way out of hand. He even said that we have never fought like that before and never wants it to go that far again. Both of us have had our nerves stretched to the limits and he does not communicate enough, he hides and loses himself in fantasy land with his videos. Which, he has said he will stop, but he does have a problem with this and I am working on helping him with it. He wants to stop doing this porn thing but like an addict cannot. <BR>Every time I discover it, it hurts but as long as he tries to work on this with me to focus more on our marriage I will do what I can. I do not believe anyone should stay in an abusive situation, but this is not like one of those. Yes, I was scared at one point but I believe he could see this and that is when he walked out to gain better control.<BR>But he was still upset. I think he may be afraid of losing me but at the same time wants to be selfish. He has to learn how to be giving in a relationship. Which means he has to learn how to give of himself which is, I feel a very scarry thing for him right now.<BR>He has to look deep within himself and he is fighting that and me. Because he has never done this and is afraid to find something he is not sure he could deal with. My job is to convince him that with LOVE any obstacle, conflict or pain can be overcome. I just have to learn to not let my insecurities get in the way. Difficult at times but I'm working on it. I'm still afraid to trust completely because there is still so much about this I don't understand. One thing I do know, MEN are complicated creatures and they think the same of us. It's like the old saying, You can't live with em and you can't live without em. Finding that middle ground and keeping it thrilling and intreseting is the key. Communication is a big part of that key and realizing the signs of drifting apart before both parties end up in pain and regrets. <P>Thank you everyone and God Bless you all.

Bill,<P>I didn't mean to leave you out. Thank you for your concern as well. That night I felt so lost, alone and numb. I honestly didn't know if I should demand the next day that he leave or what. If I didn't would I be giving him the idea that I am here to be walked on?<BR>I was so confused and hurt and tired. But Lucks gave me some things to think about and I did. I stepping up to the batters plate again and trying a different approach. Souless'exH tried to tell me not to push too hard and asking when I did was bad timing on my part. I can be stubborn like H sometimes and I want all the answers laid out on the talbe right now so I can deal with it all at once. Too afraid of getting back up on that horse ( so to speak) and getting bucked off later down the line because I didn't get all the information. Know what I mean? <P>Thank you for being there for me. God Bless you. I hate where we are but I'm glad we have each others support.

devastated2—<P>I’m soooo glad things are better for you! You’ve been on my mind quite often. I’m also happy if anything I said helped your situation. <P>I do think we have similarities in relationship styles. Ah yes, the late night who’s-gonna-sleep-where-until-we-make-up routine. I like your H’s choice of carrying you to the bedroom…did you? A romantic touch there in the midst of the bad feelings. I would imagine that helped a little. Sometimes guys can do nice things, LOL !!<P>Is it possible for you two to attend some marriage counseling sessions? It helped us a lot. Fortunately, our insurance covers counseling with a $20 co-pay; otherwise, we wouldn’t have been able to afford. If you can’t, or in conjunction WITH counseling, reading will give you many ideas and insights into relationships, especially the differences between men and women. I’ve decided that basically, a woman’s thought processes seem more complicated than a man’s because a man responds with logic first. We want to communicate our emotion first THEN talk logically. I think that’s why we drive men crazy, and we think men are so uncaring.<P>Here’s a tip our counselor suggests to cut down on confusions and riotous emotions during discussions—STAY ON TOPIC. Don’t veer off about that OTHER thing that upset you right in the middle of a different subject. One thing at a time. H and I are particularly bad about that and when we’re not clearly focused, our conversations go haywire and bingo!—hurt/angry feelings that just got too confusing to even continue.<P>If you’d like, please explain your feelings (and what you feel your H’s are) concerning porn viewing? I’m sure I’ve read some of your other posts but I’m just not putting the whole picture together. Again, I’m relieved to hear things are better for you!<BR><P>------------------<BR>Laura<P>"I cannot care a little for you. I love you only just enough to love you all the way."~~Rod McKuen<P>

Laura,<P>Thanks for reply. I am back on track again and working on refocusing my efforts. I am wanting to find counseling for both of us, but have to take it one step at a time with him. He is reluctant to expose himself emotionally to any outsider right now. And I am reading for a better understanding on men and women in relationships to help us along.<BR>Thanks for advice. Even though our stories may be different in some aspects the effect of betrayal is the same. <P>As for the porn thing. It has always interfered with our marriage relationship. In that he would concentrate more on that than our relationship and growth. He took advantage of me and let me work on this marriage alone. He contributed very little if anything at all. And all the while he was self-absorbed into his selfish needs. I have expressed this to him and he has told me that he watched it and watches it for escape and fantasy from reality. He knew it was driving him further away but didn't or couldn't stop and feels it is so wrong. He says he doesn't really want this to be a part of our life and wants to stop but he waffles back and forth between NOT being addicted to being addicted to it. I believe he is and cannot stop it. And if he continues on this path he will not be devoting the time needed to work on us. When he views porn it draws him further and further away from us and he gets all consumed with thoughts of thinking about sexual experiences with nameless others. And last month, he acted on this impluse. If he doesn't get a grip on this I do believe he will do it again. Meaning, subject himself to be with someone else to fulfill a fantasy.<P>Does this answer your question? Some men like porn but my H becomes obsessed to the point he focuses on that so much is takes away from being involved in our marriage. And he already stated he doesn't want me to get involved with him in porn because he feels deep down as a christian it is wrong and evil. I believe for him that is the allure of it right now and he doesn't know how to fight this forbidden desire completely. Like an addict he wants to stop because he dosen't like the person it causes him to become. But he also is drawn to the sleezyness of it and finds himself being pulled into it, thinking, one more time won't hurt. But before long that is all he is doing and ignoring everything around him. <P>In other words, he doesn't know how to keep it in a healthy perspective if there is such a thing concerning this.

Laura,<P>I forgot what you asked about the 'carrying me to bed part.' Yes it was kind of romantic and I felt he was trying to show me how sorry he was. He had never done anything like that before either. He doesn have it in him to be romatically sweet and thoughtful he just needs more practice. He doesn't think in romantic terms but can if he would give himself half a chance.