I've started to REALLY review my life and some of the things that I might have done in the past that didn't exactly meet W's EN's. I have slowly been able to shift the blame from myself, taking responsibility for only those things that I didn't do before the A.<P>I finally figured out a few things about myself, and have committed myself to fixing those things that I have control over. Her years of suttle hints and comments are all coming back to me, and I have taken them into consideration while looking hard at my actions.<P>Reviewing your mistakes is a hard thing to do. Committing to correct your own problems is going to be even more difficult. Years of habits and addictions are pretty hard to break.<P>I guess you can say that I have somehow renewed my dedication to our M, at least for now. I realize that I can only be here for her if she needs me. I only hope that I can continue with this new dedication when I KNOW that I won't see any results for a long, long time (if ever).<P>I have to thank WHO and LHS for their advice and tips on how to control yourself in these situations, and I am still impressed with LHS's ability to keep complete control of himself through such a rough ride.<P>Pops

Pops,<P>That self-evaluation stuff is hard but I think it needs to be done, by both sides. To me it shows that you are looking up the triangle again and trying to make yourself better. Regardless of what happens with the M in the future, good or bad, you will come out of it a much better person in all aspects of your life. If I can offer some thoughts of what I have experienced hopefully it will help you out, I know some of these have been posted before. <P>First, the A wasn't your fault, don't take responsibility for it. You may have done some things like I did prior to the A (not meeting W's EN/PN's) but that is as far as you should go. Remember, its not a one sided thing, W also failed to meet some of your needs. We both have a responsibility to bear. <P>Don't feel sorry for yourself. I know I did at first and it didn't help the situation at all. Don't feel guilty either. These two things, especially combined, could destroy any hope you have of working things out. Forgive not only her, but yourself, I don't think we can move on without doing this first.<P>Be careful about what you think was your shortcomings. W still blames me for creating the entire situation where she says she was miserable. This is a hard one to work through. At first I really did believe it, but after a lot of reflection on the past, I can see that this is not entirely true. Like I said before, it's a two way thing, I can see a lot of things that W did that didn't help the situation either, I guess I just kept burying it until now. Remember, you two must have had enough good times or else it wouldn't have lasted as long as it did<P>Keep everything in perspective. The past is just that, and you can't do anything about tomorrow either. Work on today. Don't let what has happened cloud your thoughts about what happened in the past or what the future might or might not bring. Don't make any quick conclusions about what you have done. The last few days have opened my eyes to some of the things W has done that I thought were because of me, turns out she did them on her own accord.<P>Watch out for the 'lesseer of two evils' attitude. Don't think that the things you have done are not as bad as what W has done. A wrong is a wrong, plain and simple. Be careful of being judgemental too, I have felt myself being drawn into this many times.<P>Don't do it alone, get involved with some kind of support groups, it doesn't have to be a therapist, just a group of people like yourself who want to heal. These discussion boards are great, they have saved me many a time. But I think we as humans need personal contact. Just as a marriage needs the healing powers of communication, touching and soothing, we need the healing power of sharing our thoughts and concerns with other people, face to face.<P>There is a reason that this came out. I believe that God brought this out for both of our benefit, don't ask why, its not up to us to know. I try and think of it as a journey towards self discovery and a new beginning that we are both taking, individually at first, and then together. <P>Remember that the changes are going to seem small and insignificant at first, but they will build on each other until you realize one day how much you really have changed. W will notice them, believe me, even if she doesn't acknowledge them.

Way to go Pops!!<P>who

Just thought I'd share some things that have came up last night. W's girlfriend called last night asking if she wanted to visit their friend in the hospital. Previous conversations on the freind told me what hostpital and why she was there. She left at 7PM, and I found out that visiting hours ended at 8PM. To make a long story short, it was 9:30 before she got home - I was in bed, blood boiling, attempting to adjust my temper.<p>I didn't say a word to her when she crawled into bed. Kept quiet and planned the next day in my head until I finally fell asleep.<p>I can believe the friend in the hospital thing, and it's almost believable that she would go to visit her, but W hates hospitals and is hesitant to visit anyone in them. The "friend" is not even a close one (the daughter of one of her previous co-workers that she never really liked), as a matter of fact, I had to ask who she was because it's been so long since I've heard her name. What gets me is coming home 1 1/2 hours after visiting hours are over with. Maybe her and her friend went out for drinks, I don't know?<p>I'll keep quiet about it and try to keep looking up the triangle, but it's going to be tough.<p>As far as looking out for me, I am planning on seeing a counselor soon. I don't know about the forgiving thing - I find it easier to forgive myself than I do her. I think that has something to do with the "lessor of two evils" thinking that I can't shake from my head. It's really hard to say that I truly love her anymore through all of this, but I honestly feel that it's because she is not there for me for anything anymore.<p>As long as I keep posting and reading here, I feel better about myself and that's what counts right now.<p>Again, thanks for being here for me.<p>Pops

Pops,<p>
You don't know it yet but that was huge last night. You focused on controlling YOU. How would you feel about yourself this morning if you would have started a big fight? I bet deep down even though you're hurting you're feeling pretty good about controlling your words and actions last night.<p>I know it's tough and you want to tell her that you're hurt and she needs to hear it but only after you've learned how to control yourself. You took a big step forward for yourself last night. <p>Good job,<p>
who

Pops,<p>Its good to hear that you kept your cool last night, I wasn't so fortunate. When I got home, W had already left for the night (that's part of our agreement, we won't be home at the same time right now, I stay a few nights at home while she goes somewhere else). Anyway, she tells me that there is a printout of the email from OM's W on the dresser and if I could please throw it away before the kids see it. <p>So I read it again and think to myself, here is a chance to confront her with this information since it is out in the open for me to see. She calls and after a while asks what is wrong, why I sound so angry. Well, I just let go, tell her I read the letter and what the h*** is going on, are you planning on seeing him again, are you playing me for a complete idiot? It just all came out and when I was done I felt really low. That's not part of Plan A at all, what was I thinking.<p>A few hours pass and she calls back. I immediately apologize and tell her how bad I feel for doing that, apologized again this morning. W tells me that when I am being nice to her, she really thinks things will work out, but when I get like that, she has serious doubts. We have a nice conversation after that and she tells me some things that make me wonder if what I was thinking was really true at all. I tell her before hanging up that I just want her to know that I am trying to work things out and to look at the positive steps I am making, don't dwell on my slip-ups. There is a lesson here, hope I can remember it.<p>We have to be real careful about the information we get and what we think is going on. They really may be doing what they say. Right now, I need to stop with the snooping, or at least keep the information to myself and not let it get the better of me. We got to do like you did, hold it in. I also realized that I need to stay completely out of her personal life right now, even the simplest question like "where did you go?" makes her feel like I am controlling her. I'm going to have to try harder to always show my best side to W, any issues about her, OM and how I fit in need to be resolved in counseling. Lets all resolve to worry about ourselves and look up the triangle from now. Good luck to all of us.

hey guys,<p>I'm f'ing pissed right now. I'm livid. I'm disappointed.<p>You guys are keeping me from doing something stupid. Just wanted you to know.<p>I WILL NOT LET MY ANGER CONTROL ME!!! <p>I feel better now.<p>
who

Who,
Feels good when its someone else being the bonehead, doesn't it. I've looked at some of my previous posts and wonder how I could be so insightful but not practice what I preach. I guess right now we are in a learning phase, trying to figure out where we went wrong. I try and visualize when W and I were first dating and got married (no, not thoseimages!) and try and figure out how to get to that special place again. <p>I've even made a bunch of those triangles and stuck them in my briefcase, around my work-hole and in the car, I'm sure people are wondering what the heck is wrong with me. I hope that when I see them they will remind me of what I am supposed to be focusing on right now. <p>Who and Pops, I think we have all made some real progress during these last (only 4 for me?) weeks. If we stay on the right path, we can all overcome this. A toast to everyone.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by loveherstill:
<strong>Who,
Feels good when its someone else being the bonehead, doesn't it. I've looked at some of my previous posts and wonder how I could be so insightful but not practice what I preach. I guess right now we are in a learning phase, trying to figure out where we went wrong. I try and visualize when W and I were first dating and got married (no, not thoseimages!) and try and figure out how to get to that special place again. <p>I've even made a bunch of those triangles and stuck them in my briefcase, around my work-hole and in the car, I'm sure people are wondering what the heck is wrong with me. I hope that when I see them they will remind me of what I am supposed to be focusing on right now. <p>Who and Pops, I think we have all made some real progress during these last (only 4 for me?) weeks. If we stay on the right path, we can all overcome this. A toast to everyone.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Cheers!

and <p>
clink - clink<p>
LOL<p>
who

I'll drink to that...but it's gonna be water for me right now. I need to keep a clear head about what I am doing for a little while, and besides, that's one of those things that got in the way of my M in the past.<p>Its real easy right now to hold everything in because she's at work when I'm at home and vice versa. But the weekend is quickly approaching and I'm afraid I'm going to do or say something stupid that I'm known for. She came home for dinner, unannounced tonight while I was in the gym (working on myself again), and didn't say very much except for some stuff about her course she is taking. I kept my mouth shut, but one thing confused me - I couldn't look at her! I don't know why, but I got the feeling that I would either break down crying or start talking again if I did. Oh well, I'm sure that since she doesn't even look at me, she didn't even notice anyway.<p>One other thing here...what exactly are you folks doing for the Plan A? I'm here for her, and let her know that, but like I said this morning, I can't bring myself to tell her that I love her right now! I just feel so selfish right now and need to be loved before I can give anymore.<p>Looking up now...not across.<p>Pops<p>[ October 25, 2001: Message edited by: p0peye_34 ]</p>

Pops,<p>My Plan A is to not do anything much at all. I get her a single rose now and then, a card or ecard once a week, nothing too sentimental, tell her I love her when I talk to her, tell her how great she looks (and she does!), and when she calls, sound positive and happy to hear from her and thats about it. She did tell me last night that when I am nice and not looking or sounding angry, she can see the M working out, I've got to keep on working on that one.<p>I think sometimes the best Plan A is to not do anything at all or else you will smother her and push her away further. Your in a tough spot with the way W is reacting to you. But, you got keep on going so that you know you gave it your best shot.
I keep thinking how awful it would be if I woke up one day in the future, alone, and asked myself "Why didn't I try with everything I have?"<p>I'll stick to the water too, I tried a beer with this medication I am on, not a good thing.

Right on about the beer and meds...better stay far away from that!<p>I guess I'm not doing too bad on the Plan A thing myself. I've been keeping my distance from her but at the same time, letting her know that I am here for her. I haven't done much in the way of a rose or card or anything like that, mostly because up until a few days ago, I've been smothering her with too much love and attention.<p>She came home from work last night, changed into her pajamas, and went out to the living room to watch TV. I think she did that just to avoid being with me. Either way, that's okay.<p>I'm still unable to tell her that I love her; it just seems like a lie right now, but I'll work on that.<p>The workout was great BTW. Relieved a lot of tension and stress that I didn't realize I had built up inside.<p>Pops