Just an update with some questions too,<p>Spent the weekend at home with the kids, W went to a motel while I was at home. Things went well until W got back and the first thing she asks is "When are you leaving, I don't have anywhere to go when you are here" That really didn't sit well with me, made me feel like I was some unwanted guest in my own home. I told her that the weekends are supposed to be for me and the kids to be together and that we should discuss my arrival and departure times before I come over. That started a brief argument, I asked her what exactly she wanted to do, she replied with the usual "I haven't made a decision yet." I have absolutely had it with that line, what decision is there to be made? Either you want to work on the M or not.<p>W called me later that night and we started the argument again. She went on about how we are supposed to be completely seperated now and establish boundaries about what we can and can't do while we work things out, that it is supposed to be like when we were first dating. I asked her what those are supposed to be and she read me a list that, to me, allowed her to control the entire situation, even told me where I was allowed to go in my own house! For me, that was the last straw. I told her that I was not going to allow her to dictate to me what I can and can't do, if she wants to play that game then I am not going to be a part of it. It almost seems that I am going to have to switch to Plan B real soon. <p>W also went on about how many things I have done wrong during our marriage and how miserable I have made her. I fired back and told her that if it was so bad, why didn't she leave a long time ago and that there are two sides to this, she has done things too that haven't helped. And to make matters worse, by the time we were done talking, we were acting like civilized people again!<p>I guess I just needed to vent a bit. That line about "I haven't decided what I want to do yet" really sets me off, what decision is there to make? Is she still seeing Mr. Wonderful and waiting to see if he comes back to her? Is she looking for someone else? I don't know, its hard when you feel like there is nothing you can do, while you wait for the other person to make that 'decision', maybe I should make it for her. The kids are suffering a lot because of this, I'm surprised they havent figured out exactly what is going on. Am I wrong or is W being selfish here? Is she stringing me along? Is she testing me, looking for a way out of the M? Here I go again, looking across the triangle instead of up it like I am supposed to.<p>Pops, right now I feel like you did the other day, feeling like I am wasting my time trying to make this work, especially when it seems like I am doing it by myself. Hopefully by the end of the day I will be focusing on myself again. Any advice and encouragement would be greatly appreciated right now.

Loveherstill,<p> Tough spot, I know, I've been there, heard those exact words, "haven't made my decision yet", but just hang in there. I can only imagine how tough it is to have kids in this whole mess because we have no children. <p> It sounds like your wife is really lost. She is just so blinded by satan and he has a pretty tight hold on her right now. Trust me, your wife is only an instrument through which satan is using to destroy yet another marriage.
So you can either stay strong or give in, too. <p> I know that we are only human and can only take so much, but that is the world will tell you. How much suffering can you REALLY endure? Well, God provides the strength, all that you need to be victorious and win your wife back. Like I said before, God is the ONE and ONLY resource you have. Continue taking your prayers to him, he will answer, but in his time. <p> When I set out to change myself first, and take my prayers to God, I gave God 1 year to "fix" my marriage. That was silly on my part to set a limit, but he eventually answered my prayer. It took nearly 20 months too, but he did. Is your marriage worth saving? yes. Is it worth waiting for? yes. Is God on your side? yes, he is for all marriages. If your wife (and you too) give into satan, you have both been defeated. God doesn't force you to do anything.
But you do have his strength which is STRONGER than the enemies, doesn't even compare. God will begin opening your w's eyes and she will one day come home and say something along the lines of what my husband said to me, "what a collosal mistake I made".<p>Godspeed and strength,
Julia

lhs,<p>Don't take everything she says to heart right now. She's messed up and doesn't know what she wants. She's probably not capable of making that decision right now. I know it's hard on your self-esteem but that's part of this roller coaster. Take it in stride and don't get down.
For the time being you and W should set the actual times that you will be with kids and then don't budge. Come to an agreement and stick with it. She's testing your boundries.<p>lhs, this is the time when your self-esteem will take a beating if YOU let it (I did and it was a hard thing to get out of). Keep looking up. You've been doing real good.<p>
who

Julia3,<p>Everything you said is true. But as a stubborn and arrogant man, its sometimes hard to step back from my worldly self and allow God to work things out for me, W , the kids and us. I so much want this terrible chapter in our life to be over so we can move on, but it isn't up to me to decide when the time is right. I have been humbled by this whole experience and can feel a lot of changes taking place within myself, but so far patience hasn't been one of them. Looks like it is going to be tested and developed now.<p>Who,
Yes, my self-esteem is taking a beating. After all, W, kids, the house, all of that is a big part of my identity and now it has been stripped from me, I am now a visitor in my own home. That is a hard pill to swallow. And to hear W give me that line about "I don't know yet" just makes it worse. I feel like I am the one being punished for all of this while W is denying what she has really done. I guess that is part of the fog , and yes, she really isn't capable of making any decisions yet. I guess I have to just wait and see what plays out, can't do anything for her now but I can for the kids and myself.<p>We are setting boundaries (W's therapist recommended it along with us filing separation papers to protect both of us and the kids). That's another tough one to take. I made my list and put in some pretty tough things, but I really feel like she is taking advantage of my Plan A'ing right now so I am putting a stop to that.<p>One thing I have noticed is that the ups and downs on the roller coaster aren't as high or low anymore. Things seem to be smoothing out a bit. When I do get mad at W, it only last for a little while, not days like it did before. So maybe progress is being made, I just have to look back on where I was yesterday, last week and last month and see where I am now. I think this week will be a big turning point for me, I'm starting to do a lot of things for myself that will help me through this.<p> again
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LHS,
I haven't been on here in a while but got myself up to speed on your situation. It seems like the same thing that I'm going through right now. W asks her chat buddies how it is that I can read all of her e-mail and her chats. She's more concerned with HOW I am doing it rather than WHY I am doing it.<p>Who is right. We are both taking serious blows to our self esteem with the things that our WS's are doing, not doing, saying and not saying. I don't know about you, but I feel as though I should be the one who is mad at her all of the time instead of the other way around. My logical self asks such questions as "What right does she have to be mad at me?", "How can someone I've trusted for so long be so disrespectful towards me?", or the biggest one that just won't get out of my head "What was so wrong with our M that she had to do this to me?"<p>How can you continue looking up the triangle when all of this doubt is in your mind? That's a tough question to answer, and it's different for everyone. My answer is to take care of myself. I have a plan that includes quitting smoking, working out, and not drinking on the weekdays. It should be pretty easy since I change positions at work next week. I feel that one cannot just change one thing in their life and expect to be successful at it - I think that to quit smoking, for example, one has to change their lifestyle to succeed. At least I am going to give it a try.<p>Pops

Good job pops,<p>
Making lemonade out of lemons!<p>
who

Well, another one of those unexpected twists happened again last night. W called me late and she started talking about our separation, boundaries, all the things I have done wrong, the usual stuff that makes my blood boil. I'm just sitting there biting my tongue, drawing little triangles and telling myself not to loose my cool. Then it happens, out of the blue, mid-sentence, W tells me, "The other night I was watching tv and it hit me, What the h*** was I thinking, what was I doing getting involved like this, am I crazy?" I don't know how she couldn't hear the gears in my head seize up while I'm trying to shift out of defensive mode. It was a complete, I mean complete, surprise.<p>After that, she made some other unbelievable comments. Said she needs me to trust her again, wants us to work on the issues (individually at first) that have been dogging us our entire marriage so that when we get together again, we can start with a clean slate and be the husband and wife we are supposed to be, how sorry she is that this happened, how much guilt and sorrow she is bearing. I think that conversation did more to give me hope of our marriage working out than anything so far. Now I have to digest all of this and be real careful that I don't do anything stupid to set us back any.<p>There are three things that I know W has to say to me in order for me to move past this, and what she said last night was the first one. I get the feeling that things may start to change now, have to wait and see though. For me, that was a huge step in the right direction, but I still need to concentrate on me so I can be there at the top with her.<p>Pops, we have a right to be mad and being angry is a natural step towards recovery. We all have to pass through that phase sometime, I'm feeling it right now. The important thing is to do it in a constructive way, such as through counselling or some support groups. Taking the anger and frustration out on W isn't going to help. I told W last night that I don't want to fight like we have before. I think about those times and realize that we never resolved anything doing that, we only internalized it which made it worse the next time it came up. So it is up to me to follow through on that. Those changes you are undertaking are pretty dramatic, I wish you success, I know you can do it, it sure can't be any more difficult than what we are going through now.

lhs,<p>
Good job controlling yourself!!! <p>I sense that you are unsure if this is real or not. It's pretty hard to be convinced when you keep getting knocked down everytime you get up. Take it as a good sign, at least the fog is starting to break and she is starting to look at herself. <p>Keep up the good work,<p>
who

LHS<p>you are not doing yourself any favors by living away from home. She has everything she needs: home, income, boyfriend, kids... and you have nothing. You are also hurting yourself legally. She can claim abandonment. Move back home. If she really thinks a seperation is in order, let her move out. She will never respect you if you allow yourself to be walked all over

LHS,
I'm proud of your success, and hope that things continue to go the right way for you and your W.<p>It looks like your W has been broken out of that "spell" she was in and is starting to come to terms with what is really going on. And I have to agree with WHO; I certainly would have a problem believing if it was real or not if it happened to me.<p>Good luck, and God speed sir.<p>Pops

I have thought about those very things myself, but feel that right now it is in everyones best interest for me to leave. The idea of separation came from the therapist and I have to agree with her now, sure didn't at first.<p>She can not claim abandonment at all, has no legal leg to stand on. We had signed separation papers prior to the A coming out to protect W and the kids from someone I knew prior to me meeting W. It's a long story but basicly this woman felt she had a legal claim to my income and tried to get it once. The separation papers were designed to protect W and the kids and keep her from coming back and try it again. That's one of the big issues that has dogged out marriage from the beginning.<p>There is a big issue of who would watch the kids also. If I stayed at home, I would have to make drastic changes in my work schedule that right now can't happen. She doesnt have OM anymore, I am convinced of it. I talked to OM's W a while back and she says they are both scared of W right now, think she may try something, not that W didn't do anything to make them feel that way. (let them think that, at least it keeps OM a safe distance away).<p>W's income has been drastically cut, she is looking at different types of government help to try and make ends meet, even is considering getting a job for a change, that's a blow to her self esteem, I know. And now, she has to do everything around the house that I used to do, take care of 4 kids, clean the house, car pool to a lot of activities, help with homework, get up early to get them to school, do the shopping, all by herself. I can tell it is wearing her out. <p>W no longer has me act as a babysitter and take care of things while she 'goes out' either. Her social life has been cut to almost nothing. W has no privacy anymore, the kids see to that, she has to hide in the closet just to talk on the phone. She is being constantly reminded of what she did. If W moved out she wouldn't have all these responsibilities and I'm sure she would just party with her friends all the time to try and forget all this. Now she can only go out on Saturday night when I come home for the weekend. And it gives me time to work on myself without all the distractions.<p>I understand what you are saying but for now, this is the right decision. I call the kids everynight and am keeping a close eye on things and if anything happens, I will be right there to take care of it.

Pops and Who,
The strange thing about what W said is that I do believe her, maybe that's a character flaw on my part. Trust and the lack thereof is going to be a huge obstacle for me to overcome. W's honesty and openess last night is a step in the right direction. I know that I should be suspicious, but darnit, I love her and feel like I have to give her a chance. If she is lying or backslides, guess what, that's her problem, not mine right now. I'm too busy trying to control my own actions/reactions. Now it is time to look for other signs from her, and me as well, to show an honest effort is being made to work things out. Her telling me that she needs me to trust her again speaks volumes about what she is trying to come to terms with.<p>I hope that someday soon all of you will experience this as well. A huge weight has been lifted off of me. Whats so weird is that it just came out of the blue, no warning, no nothing, guess that's what feels so good about it. I wish I knew if it was something I did or some other factor that made her snap out of it so I could share it with all of you. But, that's what makes life so incredibly interesting.

Hmmmm, interesting? Life? I would have never guessed.<p>Sorry for being so sarcastic, I'm just in one of those moods right now - and I know I shouldn't try to start a conversation at home with it.<p>I honestly can't see any kind of reveliations like that happening in my M anywhere in the near future, but hey, you're living proof that it can come out of the blue.<p>W continues to test the lack of trust for me. Even though I haven't been interested in seeing what she has been chatting about for the past few weeks, she has taken steps to prevent my "spying" on her computer. I guess that what she doesn't know is that it just peeks my suspicisions even greater and makes me trust her less (if that's possible).<p>Things can only get better from here on out.<p>Pops