Who,
Just thought I would check up on you and see how things are going. I believe you mentioned that you also had moved out. How is that going? For me it seems like it is getting better. I am finally coming to terms with the fact that I am out of the house. I think I am starting to get into the separation routine, knowing that we aren't going to be together for a while. W keeps telling me not to make any long term commitments, that in 3 months she will know what she wants to do. It seems like ever since I moved out, we have been talking a lot more, just day-to-day stuff, but still talking like civilized people.<p>That decision thing though, drives me nuts. What about what I want to do? Don't I have any say in this? I feel like I am being punished for something I didn't do, I have given up so much for W to have the time to make this great decision. Why is it that us BS's have to wait idly by while the spouse has to make this great decision? I feel that the decisions have already been made, one by the spouse deciding to have an A and the other by BS to stick by them and being willing to work things out. I guess it is hard to understand from my end.<p>Right now I feel like I am in some kind of holding pattern. What W told me the other night was great so I guess now I am waiting for her next big move. Or maybe its me who has to make some personal growth and make the next big move. Its tough, but I feel like my patience and understanding is being tested and developed right now , that's one thing I never seem to have enough of. It would be so easy to tell W she isn't really doing anything to help us and the M and to just forget about it. But I know that she is and since I love her so very much and find such happiness with her, it will never happen. <p>Pops,
Something I realized the other day, thought it might help you. It seems that the more I focus on me and what I have to do recover, the more peace I find within myself. I'm not in Plan B, but am keeping more distance between me and W. Its been 35 days since DDay and at times it feels like an eternity and others it feels like the knife just got shoved into my heart. Keep focusing on yourself, this is your time to shine! If I may add, try taking a few days off from snooping and see what happens. Maybe take a weekend away with the kids, let her be alone. Remember, you are still there everyday for her meeting some EN/PN's (my PN's are driving me crazy right now)and since she keeps coming back, it must mean something to her. <p>I don't think she hates you or anything, she is just trying to escape from all of this by doing the chat thing and all, probably easier for her to do than face the consequences of her actions. It seems that your W is digging a pretty deep hole that eventually she will have to climb out of by herself. Don't fall in with her, but be there on the surface ready to give her a hand when she finally realizes how far down she is.

lhs,<p>I'm kinda down today but I'm doing OK. Last night my son told me he misses me and was disappointed that he didn't get to see me. W wants me to come home but I can't go back to "just getting by". I've lived my life that way for almost a year now and I'm not built for it. I need to keep moving. Thanks for asking - that helps me out. <p>I can relate to the decision thing. My W won't make it though. She's a conflict avoider and doesn't want to be responsible if she makes the wrong decision. All she says is that she's doing her best and she's sorry if that isn't good enough. Well, I know it's not her best. I've lived with her for 15 years and I know this is far from her best.
I have to be honest with you here. I see a lot of myself in you. I was were you are in the beginning and I loved my W so much that I was willing to wait forever. I still love her but I will not go back to the way the M was before the A. I told her that from day one. It just seems like that's what she wants and I know nothing is getting fixed. I do have a lot of problems with feeling that I'm the back up for her. It's a hard place to be because I don't feel appreciated. My self esteem took a pretty hard beating even though I know that I have a lot to offer. I just refuse to live my life being second best. I think I'm just trying to warn you of things to come and you might want to start addressing them with a C right now. I kinda feel like I'm in no man's land because I think the only way I'll know I'm not second best is for W to go after our M the way she went after the A. Something I can't control and something I'm not even sure is possible.<p>Good luck,<p>who

Well, she did it to me again. W called me today and even before I could say anything, she says "Please know that regardless of what happens between us, I have and always will love you". Reeling from that, she goes on to say something about how she could see how hurting I was when she saw me yesterday and how sorry she was that she is putting me through this awful mess. Then, hits me with the "You have given up everything just to give us a chance and I really appreciate it" I think my heart stopped a couple of times there. <p>What is going on, can someone explain this to me? Just when I think I have the situation figured out, W has to go and change all the rules! Boy do I have to start paying attention to how I act around W. If what she is telling me is real (and I do believe her), I would be a complete idiot to do anything to mess it up. How much can I guy take? W even told me that she heard through other neighbors that OM/W are getting ready to move out of the neighborhood. HURRAY, I'll even help them pack!!!!<p>Who,
Your in a tough spot. Having W continue to avoid admitting fault just doesn't give you any choice. I think you are doing the best you can given what is going on. I'm praying for the both of you, to bad there isn't anything we can do to help W finally get her head out of the (fog). Having your son tell you that (I hear it x4 every night) really cuts deep. Have you considered having W move out of the house and you trying to get custody of the child? That's a tough call and I am not condoning doing anything to make a bad situation even worse, but there are some legal options for you might want to consider. I don't know if you have moved to the D stage yet, but maybe a little push like that might cause some changes. W and I filed separation papers just to keep each other in line so no one gets crazy, not an easy thing to do, but definetly gives both of us some peace of mind right now. Maybe I'm talking out of the wrong end here and am way out of line, but reading about how long this has been going on and how W wont give saving the M any real work, well I don't know.<p>Who, Pops and all the other BS's (better spouses) Lets all be a little selfish and worry about us right now, I think we all deserve it.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by loveherstill:
<strong>Well, she did it to me again. W called me today and even before I could say anything, she says "Please know that regardless of what happens between us, I have and always will love you". Reeling from that, she goes on to say something about how she could see how hurting I was when she saw me yesterday and how sorry she was that she is putting me through this awful mess. Then, hits me with the "You have given up everything just to give us a chance and I really appreciate it" I think my heart stopped a couple of times there. <p>What is going on, can someone explain this to me? Just when I think I have the situation figured out, W has to go and change all the rules! Boy do I have to start paying attention to how I act around W. If what she is telling me is real (and I do believe her), I would be a complete idiot to do anything to mess it up. How much can I guy take? W even told me that she heard through other neighbors that OM/W are getting ready to move out of the neighborhood. HURRAY, I'll even help them pack!!!!<p>Who,
Your in a tough spot. Having W continue to avoid admitting fault just doesn't give you any choice. I think you are doing the best you can given what is going on. I'm praying for the both of you, to bad there isn't anything we can do to help W finally get her head out of the (fog). Having your son tell you that (I hear it x4 every night) really cuts deep. Have you considered having W move out of the house and you trying to get custody of the child? That's a tough call and I am not condoning doing anything to make a bad situation even worse, but there are some legal options for you might want to consider. I don't know if you have moved to the D stage yet, but maybe a little push like that might cause some changes. W and I filed separation papers just to keep each other in line so no one gets crazy, not an easy thing to do, but definetly gives both of us some peace of mind right now. Maybe I'm talking out of the wrong end here and am way out of line, but reading about how long this has been going on and how W wont give saving the M any real work, well I don't know.<p>Who, Pops and all the other BS's (better spouses) Lets all be a little selfish and worry about us right now, I think we all deserve it.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>
lhs,<p>Sounds like your W is coming around. Good for you. It's really good to see your W acknowlege what you're doing AND how bad you've been hurt. My W finally acknowledges this but it took her about 5 or 6 months to say it. Even then I don't think she meant it. I do think she see's it now. That might have been my fault because I tried so hard to hide my pain that I don't think she ever saw it until the past few months. I don't think she thought the change was real either. Damn, this is starting to sound like a pity party. Sorry guys.<p>
lhs,
"Having W continue to avoid admitting fault just doesn't give you any choice."<p>I have to tell you that my W has admitted fault. We just differ on what should happen after that. She wants to ignore it and pretend it never happened while I think we need to break it down and make sure it never happens again. I really believe unless we fix the M we are only passing time until something happens again (and it could be me next time). I can't do that.<p>lhs,
"Having your son tell you that (I hear it x4 every night) really cuts deep. Have you considered having W move out of the house and you trying to get custody of the child?"<p>Actually I get it 3x nightly. Middle son was taking it harder than usual last night. We've talked about W moving but that would not really be workable right now. The one thing that we do trust in each other is the love and care of our kids. W is a great mother and I'm just not going to use it as a weapon. The only ones that will get hurt is the kids. I truly believe that she will not take them away from me either. I bet a lot of people have said that and regreted it latter but I need to have faith in that if nothing else. <p>Thanks for the reply and good luck to you. I think your W is coming around. I hope you have the patience for it. I know I'm coming up short right now.<p>
who

Who,
I guess I didn't pick up on the fact that W has already admitted fault or that you have 3 kids, I apologize for that. I agree with you about having to work through this together if the M has any chance of making it. Admitting fault is one thing but having to come to terms with what W did wrong is even harder to do, especially something as terrible as an A. I've been reading this book about A's and it does a good job of explaining what types of A's take place and how the WS deals with confronting/not confronting the BS and working/not working it out. According to this book, there is only one type of A that will doom a M, basically an A done as a way for WS to get out of an M that had already gone south. All the other types of A's can be resolved when both sides agree to work on it. It does make it clear that neither spouse can sweep it under the rug and pretend like nothing happened.<p>I think that is the next big step for us too, having me and W finally sit down and begin to come to terms with what really happened and resolve this mess. I guess each person comes to that point at different times. Whats hard about that is I am so ready to do this but have to wait. But then again I know that W and I have a lot of personal issues we have to work out individually before we can even try and come back together in a constructive way. Your patience is being tested too, remember that when you think you can't take anymore. <p>Both of you are greatly concerned for the kids, your faith in W's ability to be a good mother and the fact that you are still talking and being civil to each other are all positive signs. I wasn't trying to advocate using the kids as a weapon and I apologize if I came across like that, maybe having her take on all this responsibility is a better way ot go. Something I noticed last night when I was home was how worn out and tired W looked, I mean looking beat down. I felt so bad for her. I can tell that she is really having a hard time being a 'single' parent. She even called this morning and thanked me for taking the kids out last night while she got some time alone. I read Dr. H's stuff on EN/PN's again and realize how many little things there are in an M that are taken for granted until the spouse isn't there to meet them. The passion, romance, communication and caring are the big factors in a successful M but the little things also play a big role.<p>I remember Pops telling me when I first came here to enjoy the good times because it will help me get through bad times. With what has recently happened, this is a good time for me.<p>Keep you eyes looking up. You know W is watching you and looking for those little signs of hope as well. Knowing when to finally give up is a tough call, do you think you are even close to that point yet? We need to focus on ourselves right now and let God determine when things are supposed to happen.

lhs,<p>Thanks for the reply. I'm doing much better today.<p>lhs,
"Knowing when to finally give up is a tough call, do you think you are even close to that point yet?"<p>This is my personal struggle. I know a lot of people can't understand this but you probably can. I've always been the type of person that won't quit. I grew up in a home where it was more important to be the best in sports than it was to get good grades. As you can imagine me and dear old dad have a few issues but I am glad that he pushed me. I resented it a lot but it instilled a drive not to quit. This drive has served me well in my life but has caused me a few problems also. Even when all the signs point to quit, I feel like I'm letting myself down if I do. Quiting is a road I've never traveled and that path sure looks slippery and unstable. <p>Many would say that I'm just thinking about myself and not the M when I say that. There is some truth to that. I guess I'm just searching for a different path right now. I can't stay in this M if it doesn't change and I can't "quit". We were in C a few weeks back talking about what could be done to change things. I told C that I feel like I've done everything possible to make things better. He told me the bible says that when you've done everything - "stand". So that's what I'm doing. <p>This song by Lifehouse shows exactly where I am right now.<p>
I can't be losing sleep over this, no I can't
And now I can not stop pacing
Give me a few hours, I'll have all this sorted out
If my mind would just stop racing<p>Cause I cannot stand still
I can't be this unsturdy
This cannot be happening<p>This is over my head but underneath my feet
Cuz by tomorrow morning I'll have this thing beat
And everything will be back to the way that it was
I wish that it was just that easy<p>Cuz I'm wating for tonight
Then waiting for tomorrow
And I'm somewhere in between
What is real, and just a dream
What is real, and just a dream
What is real, and just a dream<p>Would you catch me if I fall out of what I fell in
Don't be surprised if I collapse down at your feet again
I don't want to run away from this
I know that I just don't need this<p>Cause I cannot stand still
I can't be this unsturdy
This cannot be happening<p>Cuz I'm wating for tonight
Then waiting for tomorrow
And I'm somewhere in between
What is real, and just a dream
What is real, and just a dream
What is real, and just a dream<p>
Lifehouse - Somewhere In Between<p>
Thanks again for checking up on me.<p>
who