We always had an understanding that if you had an affair the marriage would be over - no ifs, ands or buts. Its been 5 days since I caught my wife in an affair. The first indications are it was physical affair as there were only four physical encounters over a year. She says that emotion was not the issue. More just the excitement etc.<p>The roller coaster is definitely moving. <p>My question is one moment I cannot bear to see my wife taking a shower and want to punish her for what she did - I mean I have my pride and we did have a definite understanding - and the next moment wanting to hold and embrace and feeling like you are making up after a big fight. <p>I am mad at myself for not being harder on her and I am mad at her for not being on her hands and knees begging forgiveness. <p>We are pursuing a counselor. Should I wait and hear what the real problems, solutions and options are? before any physical embracing? And how do you handle the first time with sex? <p>coping&hoping

<small>[ June 04, 2003, 09:31 PM: Message edited by: zorweb ]</small>

coping&hoping,<p> I feel your pain and many of us know the stage that you are in. My advice to you would be to (like your user name states), have hope. If you have a desire to embrace your wife, do it because she is YOUR wife and The Good Lord is asking you to forgive her. I know it is HARD, I know that I really haven't forgiven my h, that will take time. <p> I encourage you to pray for your marriage, your wife, yourself. Even if you aren't close to God, he has allowed this in your life for his purpose, whatever that is, we can only trust. Maybe he wants to strengthen your marriage? But love your wife, despite her. <p> When I first made love to my h after knowing what he did, it was extremely difficult and emotionally painful, but it was the first step. Hold you w, tell her you love her, that you forgive her. <p> I am for saving marriages no matter what the circumstances. Pray, pray, pray; pray together. I, too, wish my h would get on his hands and knees and beg for my forgiveness, but they don't change because we want them to, they change when we ask God for help. Don't take it into your own hands to punish her, God disciplines and he knows exactly what to do. Leave it in his hands.<p> Prayers to you and your wife,
Julia

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by zorweb:
<strong>coping&hoping <p>My counselor told me that when a person has an affair, their punishment is to have to answer all of the betrayed spouse’s (BS) questions over and over again until the BS has the answers they need. The WS also has to listen to the BS express their anger and hurt over and over until it is gone.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I have to throw my two cents worth in here too. My W doesn't want anything to do with me, and I've been spending the past 6 weeks trying to figure out why. After lots of reading and careful consideration, I came to the conclusion that:
1. There are many EN's that I have been neglecting. Because I haven't met her EN's, she intentionally failed to meet mine and the visious cycle began.
2. To her, the A felt like she deserved it - that I wasn't there for her, so she had to find someone who was.
3. She knows that I am very hurt by this, and is feeling a tremendous amount of guilt about it. What Z said about her punishing herself is correct. She is tearing herself up inside trying to figure out what went wrong.<p>Don't allow yourself to display your anger in front of her. She will see the hurt in the things that you say and the questions that you ask her. Don't expect a big appology, because right now, she probably blames the whole thing on you and your failure to meet some of her EN's. I told my W that if she told me she was sorry in a sincere manner or simply asked me for my forgiveness, I think that I would find it in my heart to do just that - forgetting is the hard part.<p>When you get upset or angry, come here to vent your frustrations instead of bringing it all down on your W. We are here to listen and share some of the things that we all have in common.<p>Pops

Y'all are wonderful ! I feel so much better just hearing your response. I have orderd the book Surviving an Affair. <p>I emailed a link to the MB site to my WS. She read everything but did not go to the discussion groups. I've told her about the groups. My question is should I share your responses or let her know my name?

c&h...<p>What would you accomplish by punishing her? I realize the confusion you are in and the roller coaster has definitely begun, but by punishing her willingly and being determined to hurt her for what she did, what will that do for your marriage? You will "get back" at her for hurting you, you will make her "feel your pain", you will heap your pain on top her and add more pain to the pain she has caused herself and the guilt she is feeling, you will no doubt make her feel unworthy of your love, which may send her back to another affair where she can feel worthy of someone else, you will show her a side of you that is not loving and possibly make her wonder if "she loves you or ever did". <p>I am a repentant WS, and I have felt the sting of the "get even" attacks. Although you can justify them in your head, ask yourself what the goal of "punishment" is and if that is worth setting your recovery in your marriage back. I agree that counselling will be a help in getting to some of the core issues you two may have, but ultimately, whether or not you "punish" her depends on your goals and your love for her.<p>*Go confidently in the direction of your dreams.*<p>Trueheart

C&H,<p>As for your sharing your name here. I'll share with you what I've experienced and seen.<p>A spouses reaction to this is very individual.<p>In my case I did share it with my H because we had already agreed upon Radical Honesty and no privacy (MB concepts, you will understand after you read Surviving an Affair). To my wonderment he loved the site. We have both been participants here and it was greatly added to our marriage and recovery (his name here is SeenTheLight). <p>There are other couples here who it has not worked out for. My observation is that those are the couples in which one spouse posted here for some time and "let it all hang out". Then the other spouse was not happy to read what was being said about them "behind their back." I am sure that it is a very creepy feeling to find out that every detail of one's life is being dicussed in an open forum.<p>So, if both of you can talk openly to each other and both of you can speak respectfully and lovingly of each other and your issues, I would highly recommend your sharing this site with her and your user name. She could get her own name too.<p>Z

C&H,
Welcome, I hope you enjoy your stay at MB. I think we can all agree that finding about our spouse having an A is by far the worst thing anyone can go through, even worse than a tax audit. There are a lot of good people here who have already gone through what you are going through. Listen to them, read about the mistakes they made (so you don't) and the things they did right (so you do).<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> We always had an understanding that if you had an affair the marriage would be over - no ifs, ands or buts. <hr></blockquote> We felt the same way, but until you actually experience it, you don't really know what you are going to do.<p>I'm a BS, W had A also, DDay+36. Those first 2 weeks were tough, make sure you take care of yourself right now, if you feel yourself slipping, like I did, get to a doctor. There is nothing wrong with admitting you need help. Taking care of yourself physically, emotionally and mentally is the best thing you can do right now.<p>Listen to what W says, let her do the talking and you LISTEN to her with an open heart and open mind. Don't take what she says personally. My W told me things at first that almost pushed me over the edge (he was my 'soulmate', we were perfect for each other, he knew exactly what I was thinking and feeling even before I told him, BAH!). But as time goes by, the fog will lift and W's real feelings about what happened and how she feels about you will begin to come through, and remember to listen to those as well.<p>Take time to read everyting you can on the subject, come to MB often, reread things so that it becomes a part of your everyday life. Listen to Pops and Who, they have a lot of A-mileage between them and have given me some great advice. Pops is right about the anger stuff (see great advice already from day 1). <p>Also, be careful not to become obsessed about what W and OM did. Don't ask for the gory details. The fact that it happened is enough, any more right now won't help either one of you. Get in touch with your true feelings about what happened, you won't be able to express them in a constructive way if you don't know what they really are.<p>Its going to be a long, remember we are here and praying for the both of you.

We always had an understanding that if you had an affair the marriage would be over - no ifs, ands or buts..
So why isn’t the marriage over? I guess there are a few if, and, or buts.<p>My question is one moment I cannot bear to see my wife taking a shower and want to punish her for what she did - I mean I have my pride and we did have a definite understanding
An understanding that it is okay to punish your spouse?<p>It’s okay to have all these feelings (& more) but it is how you act on those feelings that count. Come here & complain & moan about everything but don’t do it towards your wife.

Shared this post with W. She was glad to read and it did bring a different light to several areas. The first comment out of her mouth was "sex" - that's all this is about. She finished reading all of your responses and her attitude changed a little. <p>One is she said the A was not for the "excitement" but was more for "getting even" with me. I thought this would surely tip the scales out of balance. Guess I have a lot to find out during counseling.<p>The second night after the D we talked for a long time. Prior to going to sleep I put my arms around her and she looked the other way and just cried. She then rubbed my back which I thanked her.<p>My concern is, the atmosphere appears to be open and honest. However, after hours of calm discussion (6 days after D) last night she just turns over and goes to sleep. I thrive on "touch" and this was like a slap in the face. I feel like she is saying:
- yea we have a problem -
- lets talk about it
but I'm going to sleep.<p>This morning there was a sincere embrace before going to work, but after last night, I have no confidence about what to expect.

C&H,<p>This is excatly how I ahve been feeling since I found about two A's my ws was having. At times I feel the guilt. And like you said I feel like she should be on her knees begging for forgiviness. Well she isn't and as matter of fact she acts like nothing occured. This makes me want to punish her. I have found when I feel like the best thing for me to do is to take a long walk. For me this is so relaxing. We are having sex now. These moments makes me feel like the first time we fell in love. A day later or sometimes even hours later I return to having so much anger and pain in my heart for her. If she would only open her heart and talk to me honestly. This is all I am asking of her which she won't do. At times i even hear her talking on the phone with a man which she responds as to him being a friend only. Although my emotions are up and down this site has helped me understand me and my past actions which did not meet her EM. I still can't understand why an A occured. In my heart I think it was maoe than unmet EM. I was her first and I think after 13 years with the same man she wanted to experiment. I agree with unmet EM but this places the blame back on the commited H or W. Unmet EM's or not let's place the blame where it needs to be which is on the WS.

This is so frustrating. Last night she said we are basically co-habitating and until counseling starts next Friday and I correct my shortfalls nothing is going to change.<p>She said, and I agree, that I am the type of person that wants answers now and solutions today. This long wait is going to be very difficult to handle.

coping&hoping<p>I use to also think that if my wife had an A our M would be over. I found out that I was incorrect. I think a lot of people feel this way until they are faced with it directly.<p>If you want to save your marriage give it your best shot. I hope your W also wants to save your M. Unfortunately for me I want to save my M and my W does not. Try and Plan A to the best of your ability. Then if things do not work out at least you can say to yourself you gave it your best with no regrets.<p>Wishing you the best!<p>HeartBrokenHusband

Copingandhoping, Hi. Just visiting again tonight. I don't spend much time here anymore but occasionally drop in to see how things are with people.<p>It's nearly 9 mos since d-day. H forgave me immediately and actually somehow wanted me physically still. In some ways that seems unusual but I have read of so many BS who want so much to forgive.<p>In our case, H realized that while I was the WS, he allowed some bad habits/troubles between us to fester and wanted to heal those areas of our relationship. <p>I found it hard to receive his sexual advances because I felt so unworthy. I have no idea how he could have desire for me knowing I had given myself to a very creepy man (he still would be creepy even if he were a much more handsome person). <p>I have heard for some couples it does take time and they have to express affection (just handholding and hugging even) even when they don't feel like it. <p>Zorweb gave you great advice. Please watch that desire to punish. I feel the questions maybe not so much are a punishment but hurt like Hades to answer. Perhaps I punished myself so severely by not forgiving myself that H felt he had to show some mercy. <p>If you want the M, and are willing to give it time, share your frustrations here, follow MB principles, you will very likely survive.<p>The wonderful thing about life is there is hope. Life is not easy but it is worth it. Keep reminding yourself why you chose you mate in the first place.<p>All the best to you.