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#408595 11/06/01 11:46 PM
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We had our first therapy session today, it was supposed to be about setting boundaries for our seperation but I think the therapist let it move towards an actual marriage counseling session. I tried to maintain my composure but W said a few things that really set me off and I just couldn't hold back my true feelings.<p>One thing she kept mentioning is that she doesn't want anything to do with me right now and any Plan A'ing that I do is just going to fall on deaf ears. She doesn't want anything to do with me but it sure is convenient for me to stop by whenever she wants to do something by herself.<p>But, the main thing W kept talking about, as she has this whole time, is how she can't make any promises towards me or the M until she 'finds herself' again, that she has a 'big decision' to make and isn't ready to make it yet. This statement really sets me off each time I hear it. I asked her point blank what it is she is looking for, isn't our marriage, kids and life together a big part of who she is? She has mentioned before that she feels she got married to young and never had a chance to sow her oats, so to speak. Well, I wonder how many more OM's its going to take before the oats are finally sown? To me she is acting like a 18 year old again.<p>Later on when we were at home and I was getting ready to leave I finally told her that I wasn't going to make any more promises to her or the M anymore either. I told her that when she finally finds herself and makes this big decision on what she wants to do, she can let me know, but until then I am going to start moving on with my life as well, I'll be a father to the kids, but I no longer am going to be her husband or friend right now. She asked why I can't be a friend anymore, told her that we tried that route and it obviously hasn't worked. I left by telling her that I wasn't going to try and save the M by myself, its a combined effort.<p>Probably not the best thing to do but I am tired of her constant waffling. W keeps dumping the fault on me and avoids all responsibility by using the 'big decision' line. I know she is still a bit foggy and is probably still mourning the loss of OM, but dangit, she needs to wake up and smell the coffee. I will have to wait and see what happens now, I don't think it doomed our M but it sure let her know how I felt. Maybe I'm slowly moving towards Plan B or something else.

#408596 11/07/01 12:35 AM
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Good for you LHS!<p>W needs to realize that you are not a doormat. I am in the same spot you are in and it gets old, doesn't it? I mean, we love and we love and we try and try, practically killing ourselves trying! But i think that there comes a time when tough love is needed because otherwise they take all the time they need "finding themselves" while we sit by idley like fools. I am tired of being a fool. What is really foolish is someone needing to "find themselves". <p>I use to think that i needed to find myself and at one point i thought i did, but all that is ("finding yourself") is just stubborn, selfish, worldly thinking. God doesn't ask us to find ourselves, that is so lame. <p>Sorry, i am just venting myself, but ya know, do your best to just stay strong. Be tough, but kind. Be strong, but tender. She is not thinking right so you have to be the one to stand tall, firm. <p>Hopefully, she will come to her senses sooner now that you are not going to put up with any more bs. I, too, have told my h that i am not going to sit around anymore waiting for him to take steps to work on the marriage. I am going to move on with my life, with or without him. "no more mr. nice guy for this girl".<p>May God keep you strong.
Julia

#408597 11/07/01 01:52 AM
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Loveherstill,<p>Your WS sounds just like my WS. She tells me she dosen't know where she is at in her life and she needs her freedom. I agree with Julia this is a bunch of bull. Well, I'm finding out that freedom means freedom to cheat behind my back.We married young also and during the past years she has questioned what it would be like to be with another man. At that time she assured me that she could never do such a thing. Well she sure had me fooled!!! <p>Never having a chance to sow her oats??? I understand this as never having a chance to sleep around. I didn't means anything negitive towards your WS, but that statement upsets me. A true love should not let any curiousity tarnish or destroy it. A true love between a H and W should be solid and strong and able to withstand any negtive thoughts or temtations. As a man I have had these negitive thoughts but have never came close to following through because my love for my W and family is solid and strong enough to fight off these devilish thoughts. <p>May god bless you and your WS. Hopfully your WS will see the light before it is too late.<p>
IONLYINEW

#408598 11/07/01 07:05 AM
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thanx for the replies,<p>I realized after posting that I am a conflict-avoider. I have spent my entire life not dealing with any serious issues because I didn't want to have to work through the messy stuff. I also realized that I did a lot of 'yes dear-ing' during the last 13 years to try and make up for a lot of the mistakes and problems I have made for both of us. I think last night was an awakening for me.<p>W has held a grudge against me for something I did a long time ago before we got married (someday I may tell you all). I have tried to make it up to her this entire time, most probably why I have been 'yes-dear-ing' so long. The therapist told her yesterday that at some point you either have to let it go or let the M go, but you can't have a healthy M doing both. I find that very true. That applies to everything, including A's, which I know am committed to doing.<p>I'm not bashing W in any way. She is a beautiful person, a loving mother and a great wife. If I had it to do all over again I would choose her in an instant. But right now her words and actions show that she is more committed to herself than me or the M. I have to accept that now. Julia3, what you said about moving on with or without WS, thats exactly what I told W last night. I guess I'll have to wait and see what happens next.

#408599 11/07/01 11:09 AM
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posted to soon. will repost.<p>[ November 07, 2001: Message edited by: whothehellisshe ]</p>

#408600 11/07/01 12:07 PM
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lhs,<p>Sorry about the dip in the rollercoaster ride. I guess I'll be the one to post some opposing thoughts. First let me say that I completely understand your frustration. It is hard to deal with when your hard work is not getting you anywhere in your M. I just wanted to point out that you're hard work has done a lot for you. Don't let go of that.<p>lhs - "One thing she kept mentioning is that she doesn't want anything to do with me right now and any Plan A'ing that I do is just going to fall on deaf ears. She doesn't want anything to do with me but it sure is convenient for me to stop by whenever she wants to do something by herself."<p>lhs, I've plan A'd for 11 months now. My W never asked me not to but I did feel like it wasn't getting anywhere. After awhile I was almost afraid to do stuff for her because it seemed like it just made her mad. Looking back I know it made a huge difference because I never quit. Sure, I LB'd now and then along the way but she finally started seeing those things were real. I made a decision to treat her well no matter what and stuck to it. Even in the hardest of times (like where you are now) I treated her good and tried not to play games and I felt good about myself.<p>lhs - "But, the main thing W kept talking about, as she has this whole time, is how she can't make any promises towards me or the M until she 'finds herself' again, that she has a 'big decision' to make and isn't ready to make it yet. This statement really sets me off each time I hear it. I asked her point blank what it is she is looking for, isn't our marriage, kids and life together a big part of who she is? She has mentioned before that she feels she got married to young and never had a chance to sow her oats, so to speak. Well, I wonder how many more OM's its going to take before the oats are finally sown? To me she is acting like a 18 year old again."<p>I never said this to W but I used to think it everytime I heard W say she needed to find herself. - "Did you think you would find it in OM's bed? Did he help you look?"
At first it used to upset me but then it got kind of comical. I do think that it's a good question to address to the WS's and find their thoughts on it. Personally, I think this feeling comes after the A is exposed and there probably is some merit to it. <p>lhs - "Later on when we were at home and I was getting ready to leave I finally told her that I wasn't going to make any more promises to her or the M anymore either. I told her that when she finally finds herself and makes this big decision on what she wants to do, she can let me know, but until then I am going to start moving on with my life as well, I'll be a father to the kids, but I no longer am going to be her husband or friend right now. She asked why I can't be a friend anymore, told her that we tried that route and it obviously hasn't worked. I left by telling her that I wasn't going to try and save the M by myself, its a combined effort."<p>This is the most troubling thing you said IMHO. lhs, you're setting boundries here and you set them in the heat of the moment. Are you really prepared to move on? I think you're just trying to keep up with W and show her you can be as tough and mean as her (looking across the triangle). I'm not telling you to be a doormat but that's what you'll be if you don't stand up to what you're saying. Read this paragraph again. You're sending mixed messages. You're telling her you're moving on then turn right around and tell her to let you know when she makes her decision. I don't think you're ready to move on and that is OK. Do it in your own time. lhs, you are not wrong with your feelings here, you're 100% right but the timing is off for you.<p>lhs - "Probably not the best thing to do but I am tired of her constant waffling. W keeps dumping the fault on me and avoids all responsibility by using the 'big decision' line. I know she is still a bit foggy and is probably still mourning the loss of OM, but dangit, she needs to wake up and smell the coffee. I will have to wait and see what happens now, I don't think it doomed our M but it sure let her know how I felt. Maybe I'm slowly moving towards Plan B or something else."<p>I know I'm probably going to get blasted for this but plan B is about the only MB principal I don't agree with. Plan B is manipulation pure and simple. Even though I have moved out I am still friends with my W. After 11 months of being nice to my W and trying to show her how much she really means I can't see how it would help to cut off all contact and turn my back on her. Sure, it might show her what she's missing but that's manipulative. I want my W to fall in love with me because of who I am not because she realizes that I'm the easier path. We've played enough games throughout our marriage and this would be the biggest one of all.<p>lhs, I've made a lot of mistakes in my 11 months here but I will tell you that everything is coming to a head for my W. It's taken 11 months but she's finally getting there. I'm still not sure if we will make it but I know I will. My W gave me the the most incredible letter yesterday telling me how good a person I am and how much she loves me. She told me that she realized I am the best friend she has ever had. She is really scared of taking another chance and I'm not going to push her. I know I have a couple more months in me and whatever happens will be OK. She knows what I expect of the M moving forward and what I expect if it doesn't. It took both of us 11 months to get to this point. Others it has taken less and others it has taken years. Be patient and be consistant. I do know that I have felt like you do right now. It feels like lining up in grade school for the football game and being the last one picked. The way around that is to keep working on YOUR game and soon you'll be the best. You've done really well working on your game, don't quit now.<p>
who

#408601 11/08/01 01:08 AM
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Dear LHS,<p>I know that I said that enough is enough, but Whothehellishe does make valid and encouraging points. I plan A'd for 19 months and didn't give up in that time. I just remained loving, faithful, obedient without question. Everyone told me to give up now and move back to CA. Well, my husband did come home and he did start telling me he loved me and that he was sorry, that he wanted to work on the marriage...finally. The only problem was, he had gotten ow pregnant and hated himself and asked me to support him in this. I tried for one month to live there with him, but the horror of it all just killed me. <p>I truly believe that your marriage is worth saving! Every marriage is. But I also know that you come to a point where I am now...(asking my h to move to CA with me...leaving ow/oc in MN...and work on my marriage here...he refuses and feels that MN is where he belongs- that's where our conflict is now). If h loved me, he would move. But it seems that his love for mn is more powerful and more important than his love for me.<p>My words were harsh before and I am sorry. I don't have any right to encourage you to move on with your life with or without her because our situations are different. Maybe you can stay and fight longer, praying for your w to change, praying for yourself to be strengthened while you wait patiently. Basically, I have reached a point where I am exhausted and ready to throw in the towel, but you may have a little more in you to give in hopes of saving your marriage. <p>I pray blessings for you and your w right now. I pray that today she would stop finding herself because we don't need to find ourselves, God already knows us and that is good enough for me. It should be good enough for her too.<p>God bless, Julia

#408602 11/08/01 01:35 AM
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Who,
Don't worry, I'm not giving up yet, I've made too much personal progress to stop now. I appreciate your side of all this, its good to hear the other side of the story, keeps things in perspective. But I really feel like we have reached an impasse right now. I want to work on repairing our marriage and make it better than before, W wants to take time to find herself and decide what is the best thing for her future (this 'finding myself' has been going on long before the A developed). Since these two ideas are not compatible with each other it will be impossible for me to continue what I felt was the right thing to do.I guess when I said I'll be moving on, what I really meant is for myself and not the M or W. Yes, I did throw it back in her face and I called her bluff, a big LB. <p>W called this morning, pretty much acted like nothing was wrong, like I never said anything last night. That's what burns me right now, this constant waffling. One day W is saying she can't commit and doesn't want anything to do with me, the next day we are talking like nothing is going on. Drives me crazy! I'm looking for something that isn't there right now. Maybe it's a good sign, at least she hasn't written me off completely.<p>One thing I have been mulling over is whether W is really done with OM. I know all contact is done, but I think there is still a strong emotional bond, at least for W towards OM. This may be why W is going back and forth, the bond is still too strong to break. I noticed the other day that W had a CD in the stereo that OM 'made' for her. OM is a musician and wrote this entire CD for W, the song titles are crytoquotes that spell out all sorts of things about them together, he even put a picture of W on the cover. I think she sits and listens to it, maybe reminiscing about the time they spent together, reliving her fantasy and the soulmate she once had. BAH! W is also turning to friends to meet her EN's right now, leaving me completely out of it (I'm jealous), never giving me a chance to even try. When I try, she says that it would have made a difference two years ago, but not now anymore. Yes, I am frustrated and that's where the anger comes from.<p>W is the one who pushed me moving out. I relucantly agreed to them thinking it would bring about some change, guess we will see. W told me today that there are things I will need to do around the house that she can't do. I asked her how that is going to be done if we are supposed to be seperated and I no longer live there anymore. Just silence on her end. I really feel that she needs to make a decision right now on what are relationship is going to be because I can't go back and forth anymore. I have made it clear where I stand and what I want to do. Am I pushing the issue? I know I am. My patience is about as thin as my hair is right now.<p>I'm going to let it sit for a few days and not say anything about it. But I have set a boundary and I will stick to it. I'm not going to Plan B (I don't think my situation warrants it) but I really feel like we need to limit contact with each other until we can agree to what kind of relationship we are supposed to have right now and what needs to be worked on. W and I both are guilty of being wishy-washy when it comes to what we need to do.<p>As a byline, I love to use the word gimcrack when I think about the A. (another comical response to this whole ugly time) A gimcrack is one of those cheap prizes you get at a carnival when you win one of the rigged games. As a BS I find a lot of humor in that. The infidels got thier cheap prize (each other) by winning the A game, unfortunately the game is rigged (guilt, pain, deception, lies, betrayal), it's the thrill of winning the prize that means so much. You get caught up in the whole carnival atmosphere and spend 10 times (the consequences) what the prize is worth just to get it. But then you either throw the prize away or it breaks soon after you win it.

#408603 11/07/01 07:36 PM
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If I didn't know any better I'd say your WS and my WS were sisters. I get the same reaction from my WS. And your right It drives me crazy. She turns to her friends as yours does for her EN, not giving me an oppertunity. One day everything is like nothing ever occured and the next day is a living hell with her placing total blame on me saying, I am crazy and a weak man. I still fail to understand this Woman and if I am crazy she has drove me there. Keep your insanity, march foward and save your M. She will come around, it's just a matter of time. I'm in there for the long haul.<p>Keep you head up buddy happeniness will soon arrive with open arms.

#408604 11/07/01 09:11 PM
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If,
Yes I agree with you 100%. W called me all day asking if she could get anything for me while she was shopping and I thought that things were going real well. Then she calls and goes off on me about how I have turned the kids against her, that my lack of parenting skills has caused all these problems, etc. I fire back that its not fair to put all the blame on me because we are both at fault for the mess we created. So she hangs up on me. Now I am hot! I take a few deep breaths and call back, ask her how she would feel if I hung up on her like that. Things calm down and we have a fairly pleasant conversation.<p>I think what has happened is that we are finally allowing ourselves to reveal the real pain and suffering we have kept inside since DDay to each other. The therapy session was a catalyst for that. I am going to have to be real careful now and pay close attention to how I act and react, could make some serious deposits or withdrawals now. Its going to get tough, I can feel it coming.<p>Probably going to see a lot of vents here so I am warning you all right now!<p>Who and Julia3, you put things in perspective for me an I appreciate that. What I did was out of frustration, uncertainty and thus anger. I hope it made W realize though that I have my limits too, in a way I think she may respect that I stood up for myself instead of 'yes-dearing' like I usually do.

#408605 11/08/01 11:12 AM
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I spent the whole night thinking about the last couple of days and finally realized that I completely missed what W has been trying to tell me. That's what put me in such a defensive mode, I felt her attacking me rather than letting her try to tell me how she felt. I was becoming arrogant, thinking I was doing all the work, making all the progress and W was just letting it slide. What a bonehead I am.<p>Right now both of us are dealing with such raw emotions that we can't really express our true feelings to each other. I am going to have to work on getting a grip on these emotions so I can work through them an not let them control my actions and reactions. I'm also going to have to try harder to not start any confrontations or escalate any that W might start. I've been trying so hard not to be a push-over anymore that I am becoming rigid. Changes cant happen overnight and I am foolish to believe I can all of a sudden become someone I hadn't been for a long time, nor expect W to just accept my changes at face value. I have to prove them to her and give her time to acept them.<p>I've also realized that when W gives me the 'no promises' and 'I cant commit to you or M' lines that it is just for right now and not a long term thing (still drives me crazy). I have to stop worrying about these statements because they don't mean anything for the present. I think I have allowed myself to get away from Plan-A'ing because I wasn't getting any immediate results, although when I look back, there were a lot of little signs I should have picked up on. W and I are approaching the recovery process from different angles, I just have to let her work it out for herself<p>So I am getting my head out of my (fog) and focusing on God, me and Plan A'ing (for myself like it is supposed to be) again. I'm going to loosen up right now and see what happens. I look back on the last few days and think what a mess I was making, W doesn't deserve that from me, she deserves love, compassion and understanding, not the bitterness, anger and frustration I was directing at her. Thanx all for helping me out here.

#408606 11/09/01 01:19 AM
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lhs,<p>You just said what I noticed in you yesterday. Takes a big man to look at himself. You're kickin'A!!!<p>
who

#408607 11/09/01 01:52 AM
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Who,
That I am a bonehead, or all the other stuff? [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>HA! (I've got to laugh at myself more often)

#408608 11/08/01 02:16 PM
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lhs,<p>
ROFLMAO!!!<p>The other stuff, but now that you mention bonehead?!?<p>
who

#408609 11/09/01 12:45 PM
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Just wanted to thank you all again for putting me back on the right track. Had another opportunity this morning to either make some deposits or withdrawals in the ol' love bank. Before I acted/reacted to the situation, I took a few minutes to think about what I really wanted to accomplish, Plan A, or give W another reason to pull away further, I chose Plan A. We actually discussed the situation in a civil manner. When it came time for me to leave, W and I hugged each other, the first physical contact we have had in over a month! Man it felt good to hold her in my arms again. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] Then W told me she loved me, the first time that has happened without me saying it first since at least DDay if not before. W even made a comment to the effect of "See, I'm not such a bad separated wife after all"<p>Its so confusing, first she's telling me about no promises and no commitments and I am ready to throw in the towel, then stuff like this happens. I feel like she is throwing me these curve balls all the time just to see how I react to them. Just got to keep focusing on myself and maintain my composure no matter what (for my own good). I think this weekend is going to be another big test for me. <p>One thing that I can't figure out though. W has been telling me lately about how she goes out to the bars with her friend and likes to see if other men try to pick up on her (she has never told me this before). She says she doesn't do it for any kind of sexual gratification, she just likes to hear other guys tell her how good looking she is, and she doesn't mind the free drinks either. I told her jokenly that maybe I should try it (not with other men though) and maybe we should open up our marriage a bit and become swingers. She replied with a laugh and a big no, says it isn't worth it. Am I making more out of this than I should, it just seems so strange that W would tell me about meeting other men, ableit casually, after what has happened? It makes me feel very insecure that she has to go to a meat market to have strangers tell her how attractive she is. I tell her all the time what a hottie she is and all she says is "your just saying that because you have to" Is she telling me this to regain some trust from me? It almost feels like Pops W going to the chat rooms to fullfil some EN's once the A ended. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

#408610 11/09/01 03:29 PM
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LHS,<p>I think you are looking at a few things wrong. I believe she is telling you about the bar scene for two reasons.
1. She is trying to be honest with you.
2. She is trying to find out how well you will take other information.<p>I see this as her trying to open up with you by telling you things she knows you won't like, but she feels from time to time. Let's face it if you or I went into a bar and a good looking woman started hitting on us, we would be flattered (At least I would. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] ), but that doesn't mean that we/I would go anywhere with it. Nevertheless, it is flattering for others to think we are attractive.<p>As for her not taking your compliments, well [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] that is pretty common. You are not old enough to have teenagers, but when you do, it is the same. Mom and Dad can tell them anything; it doesn't make a dent. Any lamebrained friend can say the most idiodic statement and they believe it. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Some things don't change LHS, so don't worry too much about it. Notice she told you she loved you, and gave you a hug. That my MAN is progress. Go with it.<p>My take on the bar thing is that she is starting to do what she needs to recover, talk with you. A little at a time she is showing you where her mind is/was. Take it as a good sign.<p>As for the "commitment" and not being able to say she will do more than a day to day. Makes sense to me. Listen, she knows she's lied and messed up, how could she in good conscience make any promises to you. She knows she violated her vows. I think she is being honest with you. As much as you would like total commitment, would you really accept it right now? I think you would be a fool.<p>She isn't out of the fog, and hasn't figured out what she wants to do. Any promise should be viewed with great suspicion right now. So her not making one is actually an act of honesty and compassion. She doesn't want to get your hopes up, and then fail you again. Can't fall if you don't climb, LHS. <p>So sit back, now that you have yourself sorted out, and see the big picture, let the future unfold as it will. You know you are the only one you can control. You know you don't want to be married to the woman that had the affair and left. You want to be married to someone you love AND LIKE, the woman you married.<p>She just may show up. View this like fishing. Just sit, have patience, and make sure that when you start reeling in the catch it isn't a boot. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>You are doing very well LHS. Keep up the good work.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

#408611 11/09/01 05:03 PM
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JL,<p>Fishing, I like that. I just gotta make sure I'm using the right bait (Plan A). Hopefully the one I land is that beautiful siren of the deep I once new. I agree with your take on the commitment statements, its just that she makes it sound like she is looking for a way out of the M, like she would rather have the M fall apart than admit what she did was wrong or the pain she has caused everyone. I've looked at my previous posts and realize that she has already admitted to me that what she did was wrong. So, once again, I need to remind myself to look at what she means rather than what she is saying. <p>W even called just now and talked about our living arrangement, that maybe I should move back in since it is getting so expensive. I'm not sure where that is coming from, have to wait and see, I sure didn't push the issue, just agreed with what she was saying and even offered to look at other alternatives. W kept saying "I don't know what it is we should do". W even made a comment about how we might try living together for a couple of weeks just to see if we can handle it (I'm ready for that!) I'm kinda seeing that as a good sign, at least she hasn't made a firm decision on staying or getting out of the M, heck, she even does my laundry still!<p>That whole bar thing really plays on my insecurities right now. I'm afraid she became involved with OM because he said and did all the right things and that maybe she may meet another one who will do the same thing. And if alcohol is involved, well….. The friend she goes out with was witnessed to the whole A and is even guilty of being involved with an OM at the same time W was, so as you can see, it really doesn't sit well with me. I'm just going to keep it too myself right now and see where W goes with it. Maybe she is beginning to climb, just making sure she has a good foothold before she reaches up again.

#408612 11/09/01 08:59 PM
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,284
J
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LHS,<p>Just remember she is as afraid as you are about everything. I mean she doesn't know if you are around her everyday, will you rub her nose in the A? Will you argue with her? Will you be so down that her guilt just kills her?<p>She is running from the pain in my opinion. That is probably true of the marriage. I mean think about this. You have screwed up in the worst way. You had an OP that seemed to like you, suggesting that there are others out there. If you go to them, there is no baggage with the affair (wrong, but we are in a fog remember [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] ). Or you can try to make the marriage work and face the guilt, the pain, the rebuilding, the relatives, etc.<p>Now I ask you, which way looks better??? You got it, OUT always LOOKS better. But, of course usually it is not, if for no other reason than people tend to keep marrying the same kind of person they married before, and they still have all of the issues that led to the demise of the marriage with them.<p>So sure she is unsure about the marriage. Sure she is unsure if she can handle you being home. Sure she sort of has one foot out and one foot poised but not in. Makes sense to me.<p>So remember she doesn't trust you (sweet ugh!). She doesn't trust herself. And she has no clue if a marriage can be rebuilt. Other than those little [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] details, it is a piece of cake.<p>As for the bar bit, don't worry about it. You can do nothing about it, and frankly if she is going to fall for a guy at the bar you would much rather it be now, than say a year from now. THEN your decision would be easy. Just remember:<p>No one leads their life like you would lead it for them. <p>So do a little fishing, enjoy the day (year), and see if you have the right bait. That is the challenge and skill of it isn't it? <p>What I am trying to say is DON'T WORRY. It will all sort out, just give it time, and be honest with yourself and her. <p>It seems she is coming around, even the moving back in is a move on her part toward you. If you do decide to do this though, remember to give her plenty of space and quiet time by herself. In fact, talk with her about this so that she doesn't think you are shutting her out. Let her know you feel she needs it, and if she agrees you will give her space in the house. Sort of running the show, by anticipating her, and then letting her make the decisions.<p>Hang in there LHS, you are doing well.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

#408613 11/11/01 08:47 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
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JL
I can see where the trust issue plays a big part in keeping us apart right now. I want to trust her so much, but after what has happened, I know I can't fully do that right now. And her trusting me, thats a hard one to grasp, but I can begin see why she wouldn't. The sad part about this is that during our entire M, I have always trusted W, maybe that is why the A happened, I never questioned her actions until it was too late. W never trusted me when it came to contact with the other sex, so I made it a point to stay away from them. <p>The bar thing still really bothers me. I have a hard time seeing where a married woman with four kids should be spending so much time at a place like that, but that is her own business right now. W did tell me about going to the bar with her friend the other night, even told me where it was, who they were with and how long they stayed. She has even been telling me her daily agendas. So, yes, she is beginning to open up to me, before DDay it was always very deceptive answers. I am busy looking for some big sign telling me it is going to be ok that I am ignoring all the little signs.<p>Give it time, yes. I never have been accused of being a patient person. I get easily frustrated when things don't work out like I think they should. This is one of my personal growth goals. Guess I will just have to "wait and see"<p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> If you are reluctant to change, just remember the glorious beauty of autumn. <hr></blockquote>


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