My husband and I have been married for 7 yrs. During that time I have caught him in countless lies. About 6 mons ago, we bought our first home. Since then, he hasn't been himself. He wants nothing to do with the house, me , our 2 boys. All he wants to do is sit in front of the TV or in the basement alone. (He says he is stressed from work.)
A month ago, at midnight, the phone rang, and I heard him talking with a female co-worker ( who I suspected). I flipped out and he told me they were just friends. Last week I found his cell phone bill. He called her 150 times in a 30 day period. He still claims they are "just friends"
Every time I try to bring up "her" he jumps to her defence. His business trips have become more frequent. The last invoice he gave me, he was nice enough to HIGHLIGHT all the calls he made to her. The start calling each other @ 5:30 am and continue till after 11:00 pm. I found a work shirt with make up on it that he tried to convince me was pasta sauce.
I'm soooo depresed, I have to keep it together for my kids. We are going for help. I want to work things out, but every day there is something new....He told my he's happy I found out...I shows how much I care. Family and friends are not suportive of my feelings to work it out. Is there anybody out there whose been through this..HELP<p>[ November 09, 2001: Message edited by: ARPOW ]</p>

Is there anybody out there who has been through this? Aprow, you have come to the right place! We have all been/going through this at different stages and there is some great advice here.<p>My suggestions are to read ALL MB concepts on this website. Look at WATS guidelines. Get a hold of His Needs/Her Needs and Surviving an Affair (my local library had them both!). Find out as much about A's as you can, how they start, how they end, what causes them and how to deal with the results of them. The more knowledge you have about A's, the better you will be to try and cope with it.<p>H sounds like he may be depressed, it would sure explain his radical change in behavior and why he has withdrawn so much. Convince him to go see a doctor and see if this is the case. Get yourself to a doctor, there a lot of great medications for situational depression (I know, I'm taking some and it has worked wonders). Focus on yourself and those kids, they don't need to have to suffer through this as well.<p>H told you he is happy you found out, to me that is a very positive sign, shows me that he has tremendous guilt over what he has done and is ready to stop what he is doing and try to reconcile with you. I hate to say it, but from what you have said, it is an A, whether an EA or PA, it doesn't matter, its still an A. I think you already know what the truth is. Be ready for more awful revelations because they will come. You're going to feel like you are on an emotional rollercoaster and there is no way to make it stop and get off. <p>Forget the family and all the 'wonderful' advice they offer. I don't know why family has to be so vicious when it comes to matters like this, they should be supportive, not destructive. Come to this board often, there are some truly blessed people here (Who, Pops, Julia3 and countless others) who have helped me through this difficult time. We are here for you and praying for you, H and the kids.

I thought the fact he said he was happy was a good sign also. He does not show guit however. He thinks he did nothing wrong, and when asked to stop the calls, his response was, "get over it, cause I'm not going to stop calling her". We are seeing someone. Our first visit was Thur. He came home late Mon. Walked through the door and Quickly changed his clothes. When I asked why he didn't throw them in the wash pile, he said he would wash them himself. (ODD) After he went to work the next day, I looked at them and smelled perfume. Last night he went on an over night trip for work. I couldn't sleep.....

Look for the unspoken signs. When I try and listen to W's exact words I completely miss what she is saying. But, when I listen to what she is really saying, her actions, look at her face and in her eyes, the truth reveals itself. Look at my thread title 'First Session', I can't believe I missed what she really meant like I did. <p>H's actions are so very typical of a WS whose A has just been revealed. Remember WATS guidelines. H probably is not going to stop calling OW, yet, the A has to die a natural death and there really isn't anything that you can do to help the process along. But, now that the A is in the open, it will begin to fall apart. Secrecy and deception are one of the exciting factors for a WS during an A, once that is gone, the excitement goes with it.<p>Are you Plan A'ing yet? Remember its for yourself, not WS. I tend to forget that and have to be reminded by the wonderful people here to get back with the program. Take care of yourself right now, I know its hard, it took me a couple of weeks to finally come to terms with that, but you need to, for your sake as well as the kids. <p>Get ready for the wildest ride of your life! Its going to take time and effort to get through this. What happens from here on out will be determined by your actions and reactions to the situation. Right now is all about you, not WS, take advantage of the opportunity to make yourself the best you can be.

Where can I find the plans? I'm new to ALL of this. I've on the ride its not fun, thank everyone for your support and kind words. H says what I am feeling ,and my depression, is me bringing on myself and that I'm over reacting. He dosn't want to talk about it and when I turn to people for help, H says I'm a town crier, and what goes on between us, should stay between us. My next appt. with counseler isn't till next week. Once again thank you. Knowing I can get some suport here, makes the burning in my gut less sharp.

arpow,<p>
If you're depressed then try to get to a doctor and get some meds. They saved me at my worst time. This is painful and it hurts all of us to see another in this pain. Try to focus on yourself and doing things to make you feel good about you. Your H's choices have NOTHING to do with you. I know that seems hard to understand right now but in time you will learn. Regardless of your H's poor choices right now YOU have a path to choose for yourself. Are you going to let this destroy you? or are you going to use it to make yourself a better and stronger person? Regardless of where your M ends up, you have a decision to make and it has nothing to do with your H.<p>
Good luck,<p>
who

Arrow,<p>Hi, sorry that you have found yourself here at this website with us, but you are very welcome here and hopefully we can all encourage you in hopes that your marriage will be reconciled and on its way to recovery. We are all dealing with different but similar forms of betrayal and are all hurting just like you, some days are better than others. <p>I found out via a cell phone bill that my h was having an affair and if the ow is a snake like the ow i am dealing with, be ready for a battle. Your h may be sooo blinded right now that all he is thinking about is her and how she makes him FEEL. Feelings are deceptive and cannot be trusted but your husband doesn't realize that. It is going to be a long battle for you, but if your marriage is worthy to you, which all marriage are, then you are going to have to win your h back from her clutch. They talk about plan a, and plan b (study this and seek out what it entails if you wish). <p>But as for myself, I started with God. Basically, I asked him to forgive me of my sins, and to help me to reconcile my marriage. I started going to church and studying God's word (instruction for life) and just prayed and prayed for a miracle. Well, it took over 20 months for my husband to fall back in love with me and apologize and turn to God himself, but in that time (here is the scary part) he managed to get one of the ow (he was having two affairs) pregnant (she is 4 mo prg). He did come home crying and saying he was sorry.

I am still struggling to save the marriage, only now I am really struggling to even look at my h. I was upset at God for a while because I asked God, "this is what all my praying got me?" But then I also had to remember that God works in his ways and i truly think that the only way my h (stubborn to the core; cop)was going to change his ways was to be stopped in his tracks, shocked and then sorry. Only God knew what was going to break my h, but the consequence for me was and is huge. <p>I still don't know what I am going to do, but i know one thing is for SURE. God is good, and he will comfort you when you need it, that' always. He is here to listen and to be sooo good to you. <p>Ya know i am rambling horribly but i just want you to know that we are here for you, we know your pain exactly. There is hope for your marriage. Sometimes these things happen only to become more strengthened. I just pray many blessings for you and your h. <p>Be patient and know that this process is going to take time, but only God knows how much. Allow God to change you first, your h will wonder why he ever strayed. <p>Big hugs,
Julia

Fri night while H was still at work, I got a phone call from a man w/ the same area code, and accent as the OW. He said " Your husband knows who I am, Exactly what its about, and how to contact me, YOU tell him to call me as soon as he walks through that door!!" He was very nasty and impatient. H says he has no idea. I made him call the man, but the man was not home. H turned WHITE when confronted with this. The man never called back (which I find odd)and it is Sun. I keep tring to make H call the man again, but he keeps telling me to drop it...Any thoughts?

Also, H told me last week he stoped calling and e-mailing OW alltogether to help us through counseling. I just found out that is not true. He says because they work together he is still going to eat lunch with her, call her and e-mail her. I'm not ok with this..but he can't quit his job, we just bought a house. I can't trust him, I know he is hiding stuff from me, I find BOMBS everyday. With the information I received for the site, it agrees with me in breaking all ties. He doesn't agree...even when the counseler agreed with me. I keep asking myself is this worth saving? I love him, but I don't deserve to be treated this way. I don't need to be disrespected this way, and I'm sure as hell not going to be involved in his of sick fantasy of fighting OW over him. I do love him but he is NO Don Juan. Anyway Sometimes I babble.....

ARPOW,<p>Wow, you're going through tough times right now. I'm 11 months past DDAY and W still hasn't cut ties with OM. I know how bad it hurts, it hurts so bad you can't put it into words.

You are on your own right now. Not only are you on your own you've been dropped off in the worst place imaginable. We'll be here to talk to but where you end up is entirely up to you. <p>
arpow - "Also, H told me last week he stoped calling and e-mailing OW alltogether to help us through counseling. I just found out that is not true. He says because they work together he is still going to eat lunch with her, call her and e-mail her. I'm not ok with this"<p>You shouldn't be ok with that. If the shoe were on the other foot your H wouldn't be ok with it. Regardless, there is nothing YOU can do about it. It will end when it's going to end. The more YOU try to end it the more YOU are going to get hurt. Even if you are successful in ending it then you will begin to question if your M is real. You will wonder if he really wants to be with you. I don't think you will figure this out for awhile but you've already had a taste of it. He told you that he would stop contact and you felt better, then he turned right around and started again and you got hurt again. This is an ugly pattern and can destroy you. Let go of trying to make him see it your way. He is not going to. You can let him know that the things he is doing hurt you but you really can't make him stop contact.<p>arpow - "With the information I received for the site, it agrees with me in breaking all ties. He doesn't agree...even when the counseler agreed with me."<p>If both spouses would embrace the concepts here then every marriage would be saved and become stronger than ever. Fact is that most people here are here alone and without the WS. The WS is not playing by MB rules and as long as you try to make your H play by those rules you're just setting yourself up to be dissapointed.<p>arpow - "I keep asking myself is this worth saving?" <p>I wish I had a dollar everytime I thought that. That's for you and you alone to decide. Even if you decide it is worth saving it still might not work. You can only do your half. I have found that the work that I put in for my half has been well worth it even if the M doesn't work out. <p>arpow - "but I don't deserve to be treated this way. I don't need to be disrespected this way, and I'm sure as hell not going to be involved in his of sick fantasy of fighting OW over him."<p>These are the feelings I was talking about earlier. - "He told you that he would stop contact and you felt better, then he turned right around and started again and you got hurt again. This is an ugly pattern and can destroy you."<p>
arpow,
I want to share with you the biggest lesson I learned. Control. There are only 2 things I can control in this world, my words and my actions. It took me about 6 months to figure that out after the C told me about it. When all this started I had no control over anything. I was working on trying to get everything under control except me. Once I focused on my words and my actions I found peace. I could take pride in the way I handled things. Slowly my self esteem is coming back and guess what, it has absolutely nothing to do with W. It is coming back because of me. I still make mistakes from time to time but I am learning.<p>Again, no of this probably makes any sense right now but in time it will. Keep picking yourself up when you get knocked down. <p>
who

ARPOW,<p>I just had to write to you! I have been experiencing what you speak about for the past 13 months. My WS refuses to admit anything during all this time, and everyday I uncover another land mine. My S also works with the OP, and I'm afraid it's been going on for several years. I don't think this is the first A either. <p>My WS has lied to me so many times over the past 20 years that I can't even begin to believe a thing this person says. We went to counseling for 3 months, and nothing....absolutely nothing....has changed. Lies continue, and I think WS has extreme problems. I started counseling on my own, and therapist agrees. <p>This past week WS took OP on a day trip and then insisted S didn't know how extra mileage got on the car when I asked. Told me S was using a train...not our car. <p>I don't know what advice to give you except that after 20 years and the past 5 months, I am packing it in. I think you owe it to yourself to see if things can be worked out, but I'm with Dr. Harley that if the A is not over, no progress can be made. Until S is ready to admit it, end it, and work on restoring, I don't believe any progress can be made.

Hi. H went to the C today solo. Before he went he said he wanted to talk to the C about a lot of things he wanted to tell me but didn't know how to without hurting me. ( i thought this was a good sign ) anyway, he called me afterwards and said he got a lot of stuff off his chest, but he had to get off the phone cause he needed time to think. The C wants to talk to us both Mon. I can't help but wonder with how nervous he's been latly, and the phone call that came in Fri, that its another bomb...or I'm I looking to much into it???

Yesterday I went to the C alone for the first time. I learned a lot of stuff. The C told me (I think she was tring to help) that H claimed in a session the his feelings for me were apathetic. My H and I talked last night in which he said he is not sure about his feelings, he wants to "find his smile". He also said that he was sorry about the A and he wished he could have done things differently. When I asked what he would have done differently, he said "well, with the ways I pursued things I could have messed up a relationship with a potential soul mate and love interest, oh and I also hurt you." When I asked "I thought I was your soul mate?" he replied "I thought you were, but now I'm not sure." He also said if faced with the OW's feelings, he's not sure how he would act, the feeling of temptation and "what if" would always be there. I was like a sharpe blade cutting my heart in half. He's confused about alot of things, and asked for time to sort things out in side himself, but I don't know if I have the strengh to hang around (knowing about his feelings for the OW and the fact they are still in contact) waiting for the bomb to drop. Is this the day he leaves me? I feel like I'm walking on egg shells. If I say something to piss him off, is he going to go running to her? When is enough, enough?<p>[ November 15, 2001: Message edited by: ARPOW ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ARPOW:
<strong>When is enough, enough?<p>[ November 15, 2001: Message edited by: ARPOW ]</strong><hr></blockquote><p>
When YOU say it is.<p>
BTW, Your H is a rotten lying self-centered S.O.B.<p>Feel better now? [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>who

I remember W telling me right after DDay (DDay+49, but whos counting?) about OM being her 'soulmate', we are perfect for each other, he thinks the same things I do at the same time, he calls me exactly when I am thinking about him, he has aroused something in me that I have never felt before, I love you, but I am 'in love' with him, blah, blah, blah. It hurt worse than anything I have ever felt, your knife example is exactly right. <p>H, like W, is in a fog (or has their head somewhere else if you want to use that analogy) right now. H telling you he doesn't know what he is feeling is exactly right (and a positive sign for you) The fantasy, and all A's are a fantasy, has been shattered and he is beginning to see reality again. H told you "…the feeling of temptation and "what if" would always be there". That is part of the fantasy, H has spent a lot of time and energy playing a game that he knew he couldn't win and now the game might be over. He's probably scared of losing OW, but more scared of losing you, someone who has shown him that they will love him no matter what.<p>Take a step back and let H do all the talking right now. Listen to what he is really saying. I keep a journal of what W has told me because I have noticed a pattern of things she says that contradict each other and things she says that show me she may really want to try and save the M. Seeing a C is a big step towards recovery, whether the M works out or not. Go with that and take care of yourself as well.<p>How much can you take? Julia3 reminded me that God only gives you as many problems as He knows you can handle, even though you may disagree with Him. You are a strong woman Arpow, you have made it this far, you can make it all the way. I have found an emotional strength within myself that I didn't know I had. I honestly thought I would be in a mental hospital by now, but I am still here, better than before.<p>Life is a given, misery is optional

Your h, like mine, has tunnel vision right now, and ow is the only one in the tunnel. <p>Your h can have a heart change, but take it from me, it is not going to happen overnight. He is really struggling with, "do i stay with my wife, where there is little feeling or do i stay with ow where there are sparks flying?" It is as simple as that in his sorry excuse for a brain right now. And they can't see past their own selfishness. <p>If you are willing to be patient, but work hard to fix what has been broken, then God will reward you with your obedience, I believe that.<p>Just as long as it took for your h to establish, bond, grow emotionally tied to this woman - is the same time needed, if not more, to let go of those needs she fulfills and search and pursue his love for you. <p>It is like trying to shake a tree, they are just too stubborn and don't want to be told what to do. In their minds, their feelings have the power rather than what is right. <p>I suggest you call that number until you get a hold of someone, you have every right to know your husband's business especially when it sounds dangerous, for all you know someone may want to kill him. So call the number with a pretense that you are concerned for his safety. Be kind to whoever answers so that they will be receptive with you and give you answers. <p>Pray, pray, pray for yourself and your husband. He will not change unless he wants to change and from the sounds of things, it doesn't sound like he is even close yet. So here is where God comes in, God will answer your prayers. Tell Him what your desires are for your marriage and your husband. Be patient because God works in his time and maybe he wants to work on you first, I know that was the case for me. <p>Good luck and God Bless,
Keep us informed
Julia<p>[ November 15, 2001: Message edited by: mnca6713julia3 ]</p>

whothehellisshe,
Thank you, I needed that.. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] lol<p>loveherstill,
Thank you for all the kind words and advice. You've givin me alot to think about...<p>Julia3,
Thank you also. I hope H finds his was out of the "fog" before he walks into a lamp post....

The weekend was a tough one. Remember I said it was like walking through a mine feild? This weekend I got my legs blown off....
Thursday night, I made the mistake of asking H why Sept. 11 was missing from his last cell phone bill? ( he was home from work that tragic day and I wanted to see if he called OW ) he said the phone co. didn't charge for that day because of what happened, so there was no bill for that day...I found the bill, (he hid it) he called her 11 times. He also lied about our home phone bill also which I found out on the same day.
Friday night, he didn't come home till 12:30. He was drunk, and had drivin 1 1/2 hrs. home from where he was. I asked him to be honest with me and then he said "fine you want honesty, I banged 4 women since we've been married, and the one you think I'm with I haven't even touched!"
When I asked him who, he named 4 names, and when they happened. I said "are you serious?" then he said " no, I figured if I told you that you would get off my case." Then he kept asking me why I wasn't fighting with him. Why I wasn't fighting with him about the phone bills, the fact he blew off the plans we made with our boys that night to sit in a bar get drunk, and come home in the same condition at 12:30. Why didn't I go balistic when he made the cruel comment about the OWs? Why didn't I have negative words for him when twice this weekend, he couldn't live up to his end of the tasks in the bedroom.( he was tired )
I know I have to have patients. Plan A is not working. He tells me he wants to work things out, but I KNOW he still e-mails her and calls her. He still thinks that because a PA never took place, he did nothing wrong. I,m really tring, and its like he doesn't give a flying poney about anything or any one but himself and HER.
I'm tired, and have no strengh to continue this drama. I have no more tears, smiling is a chore, I just want to be alone all the time, I somehow love this being and want to work things out, but I can't do that, untill the lies, betrayl and decietfullness stops. (I'm not a good speller, but you know what I mean)

The comment about the other women, I said something similar a long time ago when W was questioning me about girlfriends I had prior to meeting W and if they were 'better' than her. That's just frustration showing, H doesn't want to talk about the A, makes him very uncomfortable and that's the only way he knows to make you stop asking. It could be a positive sign, might show some guilt and remorsefulness on his part. H's drinking, he's in a lot of emotional pain. W has spent a considerable amount of time drowning her sorrows because it is just so painful. To bad a bottle of liquor doesn't have a shoulder to cry on, a pair of arms to hug and a loving heart to comfort.<p>Him asking you about taking this so well. You have him completely baffled, he's expecting you to go off the deep end (that's the 'normal' thing to do). W felt the same way, overheard her telling a friend once that she couldn't understand why I was taking the whole A thing so well. I wonder if OW is acting as compassionate and understanding as you are, or if she is reading him the riot act right now, knowing that the A is out in the open.<p>Contact isn't over, that's a hard thing to accept. You have to constantly ask yourself "do I want to do this" I think you know the answer. Reach deep down inside for the strength to go on. God will see you through this. Remember, Plan A is all about you, its too early to abandon it. Keep on going, if I can do it, anyone can. Sure wish I had an opportunity to perform 'bedroom tasks', don't know how many more cold showers I can endure! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]