I'm a newbie so bear with me here, just needed someplace to get this off my chest. None of my friends have been through this and couldnt relate to how Im feeling. I'd also like a different, outside opinion on whats going on.<p>I found out about a week ago that my W (guess that means wife) was having an affair. I noticed that 'we' felt distant when together and in my gut knew something was up.<p>She just started going out after work all the time, which was new. She would 'fall asleep' on a friends couch and not come home till the wee hours. I began to have difficulty reaching her when she was out or supposed to be home. We only had sex once every week and a half, usually longer. She received red and white flowers (which she placed in the living room) and said a girl at work gave them to her, etc, etc.<p>I decided to do some 'research' and found out she was talking to her manager at work ALOT on her cell phone. Her voice mail and 'recieved calls' were ALWAYS empty on her phone. I went to her place of employment and spoke to a friend of mine who also works there and found out who the guy she was always talking to was.<p>The calls on her cell phone to the OM (other man?) were ALWAYS when I was at work or not around.<p>Then the bomb shell, I found two notes to her in her work shirt. The notes told of how the person loved her and indicated through their wording that they were not the first of their type.<p>Ok, with that information I decided to confront her and find out what was going on.<p>She admitted that she had been seeing the OM for about 7 or 8 weeks. She said she didnt know why it had happened, it just did. She said she had told him she loved him and he had said all the right things, things she had needed to hear from me. He had given her the flowers, which she put right in my face. She said they had only "made out" and not had sex. She said she had "put an end" to their relationship prior to my learning of it even though the cell phone bill tells a different tale. She appologized repeatedly.<p>I wanted her out of the house. But decided maybe we could work through this. We slept in different rooms that night.<p>The next night I went to cry on a buddies shoulder and came home after a few drinks. We started to argue and when I spoke of divorce, for some unknown reason she just punched me in the eye. Its not the first time she has assaulted me during an arguement, but the first time she has really hurt me.<p>I was so mad that she'd hit me I picked up the phone and told her I was calling the police. It was more or less to scare her I guess, but I accidentally really called the police. She picked up another phone and said "my H (Husband?) is drunk I need help!"<p>Lovely, in come the police to save the woman in distress. When they arrived she told them she needed them to wait with her till she gathered some belongings and that no physical contact had taken place. I guess my eye wasnt black yet, and I didnt tell them what had happend either because I didnt really want her to go to jail.<p>Oh, did I mention Im a police officer and I work with these guys. I have no idea what the long term consequences will be of that with relation to my job. She left and spent the night at a motel. She called repeatedly to tell me she was sorry for hitting me and to tell me she didnt mean to hit me (all of which I have on tape).<p>The next day she came home to get the rest of her things. We talked and she really seemed sorry. We decided we'd take a break, then decided she would stay and wed try to mend our marriage.<p>I had to go to work and everyone saw my black eye. I felt like a total loser. Everyone was cracking jokes about it and I felt so stupid. I felt even more stupid around my close friends who knew what had happend and what was going on.<p>Well here we are working things out and I see his number on her cell phone. I know I shouldnt have been snooping, but I couldnt help it.<p>I again confronted her about it and she tells me some obviously fabricated story as to why she had talked to him. She knew how much it hurt me the first time, and had the nerve to talk to him again after all this.<p>Her parents and brother, who want her to move back to the state where they live know about her affair. I didnt tell them, she did. Her brother called one of his attorney buddies and stuck his nose in our problems. Her dad supposedly told her to call the OM and "warn him" that I was mad. Protecting his future son-in-law? The night the police came I could hear her mom yelling on the phone "get the cat and get out of there!".<p>Ok, first off Im not a violent person. I have never laid so much as a finger on her in anger, nor would I ever (even after she hits me). I have too much to lose. That said, it almost seems like they are condoning her actions and acting like Im in the wrong! I know bloods thicker than water, but I feel like such a dork that even if we could work things out (W and I) that I couldnt show my face at family gatherings. <p>I refuse to be her chump. I am not an idiot and wont be treated like one. I told her after our conversation I want a divorce.<p>She said she 'refuses to let me go' and we are going to work this out. I am so mad, hurt and upset I dont even want to listen to her or try. I dont trust her at all, if she told me the sky was blue, I'd check it out first. In my opinion you cant have a marriage without trust, and its gone.<p>Ive read some of the other posts and it seems like the tone here is everything will be ok and you should stay together (sorry if I am misunderstanding something). Hey, everything is not ok and I dont even want to look at her..... Am I missing something? Am I wrong? Any advise, please!

Let me be the first one to welcome you to our wonderful family. The people here are the most supportive and understanding people I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. The common bond we all share will help you through this terrible time of your life.<p>My advice for you:
- read, read , read everything there is on this site. There are some great concepts here that will help you, especially right now when you are hurting so deeply.
- look at WATS guidelines, they really explain who your W is right now.
- vent your frustrstions here instead of at W. You are not alone, we have all been there and can understand, nothing you say to us will come as a shock.
- unless a person has been through this, they cannot give you any constructive advice. Relatives are the worst in these types of situations. Had I listened to ours, I would have been long gone by now. Do not let yourself get duped by any 'helpful' legal or moral advice, do not sign anything right now.
- Yes you are angry right now, a perfectly acceptable emotion, but it seems like there are some anger issues on both sides. Anger is a natural emotion, but it is a result of other emotions like frustration, uncertainity and being scared. Focus on controlling that now, it is very destructive as I'm sure you have witnessed being a cop.
- Worry about yourself right now, get help both medically (depression) and mentally (counselling). Don't be embarrased about this, life stinks sometimes. Right now you can't help or control W, you can only help yourself and control your own actions and reactions.
- A few things you mentioned make me think that W wants to work things out but can't right now. Don't threaten the D unless you are really ready to do it, which I know you aren't. Most of what is going on is because of your raw emotions, learn to control them.<p>Just a few thoughts, hope they help. Sometimes I wonder if I am qualified to give advice given my track record of 'boneheaded-ness"

DoomOnMe,<p>Well here is the deal about this place. IF you want to save your marriage this is a great place and many people will help you. That is the first decision you must make.<p>If you are sort of undecided, then hang around and let's see what happens. Heck, you can hang around no matter what. You will learn things here that you never imagined and more importantly even if you decide to end this marriage, what you learn here will help you next time around. <p>Your situation is a bit different because there was physical abuse. Now, without fail it is recommended that if there is physical abuse or sexual abuse, that the person get out of the situation and the marriage if the other person won't seek therapy. <p>Interestingly, it is the woman here that are the most adament about this approach. However, as a guy, I think it is very good advice for men as well. No matter what happens you cannot strike back at your W and you know it. She basically gets a free shot anytime she wants to, and she may want to in order to make you look like the bad guy by getting you angry enough to defend yourself.<p>Being a policeman, you know who's side of the story they are going to believe.<p>It seems to me you have several decisions to make.<p>1. Do you want her back.<p>2. Will you make her go to some violence counseling therapy before taking her back, if you decided to.<p>3. How will you deal with her contact with OM?<p>Number 1 and 2 are your choices and no one here can really make that decision for you.<p>Number 3 is an area where the people here can help, by relating to you the typical behavior, time scales, etc.<p>Number 3 is also where the Harley approach to things may really help you. I would strongly recommend that you obtain two books. Surviving an Affair, by Harley and Nis Needs Her Needs by Harley.<p>I suspect the first book will really strike home with you, and it will offer some very successful strategies for rebuilding the marriage. The second book should probably be required reading for anyone even thinking about getting married.<p>You will hear here something that at first my strike you as odd, but it has proven to be true over and over. Your W's affair is totally her fault and her decision. The state of the marriage before the A is as much your fault as hers.<p>So you have decisions to make. If you decide to give it a go, let us know. If you don't hang around anyway and read you will learn a tremendous amount.<p>Personally, I feel when it comes to physical violence between a couple, it is therapy or out. Period!<p>But, that is me.<p>Hang in there and
God Bless,<p>JL<p>[ November 12, 2001: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</p>

Thanks, loveherstill and Just Learning. I think part of my problem is I am just so angry about being repeatedly deceived by someone whom I truly trusted. I let my guard down and completely trusted her. <p>So now I'm angry, hurt, etc. but I cant do anything to 'defend' myself physically or mentally. I feel helpless and useless. I love her, and want things to work out, but I'm also afraid she will continue her A, and only become more secretive. I wont accept that.<p>I will take half the blame for the state of our M before the A. I believe if I had moved away with W to be closer to her family this would not have happend (here). <p>If I move now and throw away my retirement and start completely over (you dont know how bad it sucks to be a rookie, and no you dont start out where you left off) with her will she do it again. Hell, she didnt know why it happend this time, it "just happend".<p>So, I move there to make her happy, and what then? If there is another A, Im double helpless, and double screwed! I cant just start over agian and move back, no, Im stuck there. <p>I wasnt the happiest person in the world all the time either, but I didnt run off with an OW (is that other woman?). When I got M'd I made a promise to be true to her and her only. She made the same promise I did, I remember because I was there!<p>______________________________________
1. Do you want her back.
Yes and no. I want her back the way she was when we first got married. I dont like her at all right now, nor do I want her.<p>______________________________________
2. Will you make her go to some violence counseling therapy before taking her back, if you decided to.
If we decide to stay together, yes she will need to get some anger control counseling. I wont keep risking my career. She knows all she has to do is tell them I hit her and, *POOF*, like magic, Im in jail and fired. <p>Luckily I have her on tape, telling me she's sorry for hitting me in the eye and I took pictures of my injury. That covers this one incident, but not the next. I dont trust her, and I have too much at stake here, I feel, to take any chances.<p>________________________________________
3. How will you deal with her contact with OM?
I wont deal with it. I wont accept it. She has already had the contact (by phone) whith OM. As far as Im concerned she wanted him, she got him. Im outta here.<p>I think while answering Just Learning's questions, Ive had an epiphany. Things are not going to work out between us and I need to accept that and begin work on plan D. Plan Divorce, that is. <p>Thanks for your advice, I appreciate it, but I wont be her turd. I will find somone who treats me right, or I will have no one. Either is fine with me.

Doom,<p>
I know your really upset. Your emotions are changing as fast as your decisions. Go back and read your posts and you'll see what I mean. We've all been where you are so I think most will agree with me when I say to put your decision away until you've really had time to sort out and find what's behind all your emotions. Nobody here is going to try to talk you into your M if you don't want it.<p>Even if you get out you will still have a lot of anger in you and if you want to be in another healthy relationship you need to deal with it. Get to a counselor and deal with you first then the M.<p>I hope you stick around. This is a good place with a lot of good people.<p>
who

Yeah, I’m on an emotional roller coaster, I’m mad as hell one minute, sad as hell the next. I want to work things out, then, a minute later I wouldn’t walk across the street to piss on her if she were on fire. <p>I have not talked to her in days (about four). I’m afraid of the nasty, hurtful things I’ll say, I really go for the jugular. <p>Nothing I say is being heard anyway. It’s becoming obvious that what I want is not important to her. She decides to have an A, she decides to deceive and lie to me repeatedly, then she decides things are going to be worked out. Whether or not I am willing to accept her or what she has done is a non-issue. <p>She keeps telling me she refuses to leave, she is going to make this work, and she will find a way to make me trust her again. Hogwash! <p>I was talking to a couple of my buddies last night and they said something that made sense (for once); you can forgive, but you will never forget. <p>Ok, so, lets say I forgive her. The next time she goes out and is even a little late, I’m going to wonder “where the heck is she“, “I wonder what she is doing “, “I sure hope she’s not etc“. <p>Its human nature to not trust someone who has hurt you, physically or emotionally (damn, I got the bonus plan). I don’t want to live like that. <p>I do think you guys are right though, I should not make any decisions about his matter, while I’m like this. My mind is changing faster (and more often) than superman in a phone booth.

DoomOnMe,<p>I too would like to welcome you. As your emotions are running the gambit, this is the place to unload. <p>One thing that really strikes a cord in me, is your comment about family.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>That said, it almost seems like they are condoning her actions and acting like Im in the wrong! I know bloods thicker than water, but I feel like such a dork that even if we could work things out (W and I) that I couldnt show my face at family gatherings.<hr></blockquote><p>I too went thru a similar event. For me, my H's nephew openly encouraged my H to continue seeing the OW. My SIL actually told our 16 yr old D that her dad was the happiest she had ever seen him and felt ok with what he was doing.<p>To say the least, I still harbor resentment towards them. Here it is approaching the holidays of peace and good will towards men, and I don't feel like extending this to them, b/c of their words.<p>The one thing that is helping me to keep the anxiety down is that I refuse to let them believe that I will hide under a rock. I will attend their family get togethers. I will smile, I will be nice. It is my H and his family that were wrong. By seeing me, they will know that I believe in our M, that their choices of divorces is not ours. There is a 65% divorce rate just in my H's family (sisters, bro, and nephews). <p>I realize that not all marriages survive. But I firmly believe the God wants marriages to stay intact. I have put God in the center of this situation healing from his A. <p>I'm probably not helping you here, but please be assured, YOU ARE NOT ALONE!!<p>In time you will gain strength in controlling your emotions, you will find ways to cope, you will find ways to communicate with your W. One other thing, you will often hear this word "fog". Right now your W is in a fog of emotions as well. She isn't clearly seeing how this A (emotional or physical) will create deep pain for all who are close to you and her. Everyone will be affected one way or another. She is also going thru a roller coaster ride, herself. Once she establishes no contact with the OM, her emotions will also stabalize. But as long as she continues to have contact, the longer she will be in this "fog". <p>My prayers are with you.
God Bless, CD

DOM,<p>A couple of things to consider. The first thing is your are not supposed to "forget" this happened. It is a defining moment in your life. If you come to the place of forgiveness, you will realize that not forgetting can be a good thing.<p>You won't forget the lessons learned, you will also realize over time that while you remember what happened, the sting and pain of it will fade. Just like you can remember a bee sting, but don't really feel the pain of it.<p>DOM, you are way too early yet, and the very fact that you are on the rollercoaster means that there is hope for you and your marriage.<p>The trust issue is very big. Harley points out that most of us trust too much in our marriage. Indeed, that implicit trust often leads us to take things for granted that we shouldn't.<p>But let me offer you something to think about concerning trust. It can be restored. However, it helps if you understand what it means to trust.<p>Trust is a consequence of knowledge, assumptions, and predictable behavior. You can trust someone because you "assume" they will do what they say. You can trust someone because you have the "knowledge" that it is in their best interests to do what they say. You can trust someone because they have always "done" what they have said.<p>All of these actions suggests that you can project how someone will behave in "any" situation based on their past, your knowledge or your assumptions. <p>Now we come to your situation. You have "knowledge" that you cannot trust you W, but was being honest in her best interests??? What has to happen in your marriage is that being honest with you IS in her best interests. She can come and tell you things that may hurt or make you mad, but you will honor the honesty and do your best to rectify the situation. She needs to come to a place where it is in her best interest to be married to you. It sounds as if she may be getting there.<p>Next, the predictable behavior issue. That has to come with time. If from now on she acts in a trustworthy manner, so that you can predict what she will do in different situations, your trust will be restored. This is really up to her and it takes time. As you realize, there are no short cuts. Give it the time.<p>Finally, the assumption of trust. Well, as I mentioned this is a fallacy that many make. However, you do know more about her now, and you will learn much more if the two of you decide to work on this marriage. I would recommend that you read two books Surviving an Affair and His Needs Her Needs both by Harley. They are easy to read but you will learn some surprising things I believe.<p>DOM, your marriage can be restored. Your "blind" trust will never return, nor should it. You can never "trust" that no matter what you do, your W or any future W will do the "right" thing. You can never "trust" that if you don't communicate with your W or future W, that they will do the "right" thing. You can never "trust" that if you don't focus on your W or future W, they will do the "right" thing.<p>I think you get the idea. Your trust in your W can be rebuilt, but it will be a different kind. In many ways it will be a more realistic kind. Let's face the facts, a large fraction of marriages are touched by infidelity. That doesn't make it right, but it does mean the "blind" trust is probably not well rewarded. In fact, you might suggest that it is foolish.<p>So DOM, take a lot of time before you decide what you really want to do. Do more reading on this site, and the books I recommended. No matter what you decide, avoid the LoveBusters, LB's, like the plague. If you decide to divorce, it was a waste of your time and emotion to LB. If you decide to work on the marriage LB's makes things very hard on both of you.<p>So read, think, talk a bit with W and have a look inside DOM. There are no realy "show stoppers" to your recovery right now. Just a lot of pain, uncertainty, and lack of trust. If you decide to work at this, all of these things can be overcome. But it is a man sized job. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>God Bless,<p>JL<p>PS: You are a luckier man than you know. Your W wants to work on the marriage, most don't. It seems that your W has realized the error of her ways, many take years to come to that realization. The only issue is do you recognize what you did to contribute to the condition of the marriage before she made the decision to have the A. That was her choice along, but the condition of the marriage before lands in both of your laps.

Doom,<p>I can sense your anger with what is going on. You are mad as hell and not going to take it anymore. One thing I have learned is that anger is a natural emotion, it comes from the 'fight or flee' instinct that we all have. Anger is a result of other emotions though, mainly uncertainity, being scared, fearful and not feeling in control of your surroundings. Take time to analyze your anger, where is it coming from, from you, W, OM, work, other places? When you begin to figure out where the anger stems from, then you can begin to control it and make it a constructive thing instead of a destructive thing.<p>"We can forgive, but we can't forget" EXACTLY! And we shouldn't fool ourselves into thinking otherwise. But, forgiveness allows both people to come to terms with the wrong, deal with it and be able put it behind them and move forward. The A should be a part of your past, but not controlling your future. You both can use this experience as a reminder that things can go terribly wrong and how to avoid the same mistakes from happening again. I have found this site to be helpful when it comes to forgiveness. <p>http://members.aol.com/avpsyrich/forgive.htm<p>Trust has to be earned again, for both of you. Is it really human nature to distrust someone who hurt you whether physically or emotionally? To me, thats the easy way out, kind of like capitulating a marriage when things go wrong. Compassion, understanding and comfort to those who are hurting even if they have wronged is what really makes us human. I'm not saying to sweep it under the rug, you two have some serious issues to deal with before the M can even begin to be recovered. But, it won't happen as long as either one of you takes a destructive approach to the whole mess.<p>I'm right there with you, W destroyed everything that I thought was sacred in our M as well. Early on after DDay I made a conscience decision as to how I was going to handle it. I could either be bitter, resentful, angry and destructive, or I could be compassionate, understanding and helpful. I would rather wake up 5 years from now alone and know I did everything I could to help myself, W and our M than wake up alone and ask "why didn't I do anything? <p>I'll step away from the pulpit now, hope it helps though. My mantra for the week "Life is a given, misery is optional"

JL,<p>
That was a really good post!!! <p>
who

DOOM,
I can relate to your story. I've found that this place is a very calming place. I read the posts and I see how supportive everyone is. This is the place I go when I'm on a downward spin. The advice I got here really helped me understand that I'm not alone in this.( Although, sometimes I would like to hear someone say my H is a rotten lying self-centered S.O.B), the advice and support that I got helped me deal with alot of inner issues I've had.....Hang in there...Were here for you.

WHO,<p>Thanks. I hope it makes sense to DOM.<p>JL

Thanks again to everyone that posted replies, its great to know I’m not alone. <p>W and I spoke today, didn’t really get into things (even though she wanted to), and for once I actually spoke back to her. Decided not to give her the silent treatment because its not solving anything. <p>I do love her, hate what she has done, but I am in love with her. She really has been acting like she wants to work this out and seems to be truly sorry for her mistake/s. <p>I also have come to the realization that I am not without blame in this as well. I have been working the midnight shift and a lot of overtime to help make ends meet since she is going to school full time and working part time. <p>I have not been here enough for her and I believe she was looking for companionship with OM. I still don’t think what she did was OK, and know I am ready to totally forgive her actions. <p>It could have been worse, after reading some of the other posts on this board, I guess I’m lucky in several ways. <p>I probably will never forget what she did, but I feel I might me able to start moving in the right direction. I also will learn from this experience to spot trouble before it starts again. <p>The love busters I was blasting her with will only drive us apart. I hope she already feels bad enough for what she did on her own. <p>I am going to lay down a list of objectives that must be met for us to continue our M. And likewise I expect she will too. I think it was, in part, a lack of communication that got us to where we were, and through better communication and open lanes we might have a chance. <p>Here is what I plan to give as my objectives (if I miss any please feel free to point them out);<p>1) she must go to some kind of anger management - I can not and will not get hit anymore. <p>2) we need to attend some marriage counseling (possibly a pastor or psychiatrist). <p>3) no more communication with OM. She said she has not spoken to him since she warned him to “be careful” and has also quit her job (on her own) where she worked with him. I want to make sure she knows I will not accept it. <p>4) we will communicate. If something is bothering either of us, the only way the other will know is if we tell each other. Neither of us have ESP. <p>5) there will be no repeat performance, if she wants to see someone else she will have enough respect for me to divorce me before she does. <p>6) She must work to regain my trust, and I need to figure out why she obviously lost trust in me. <p>I’ll be looking for posts to revise my objectives and tweak them for optimal results.

DOM,<p>You list seems pretty reasonable to me. I would suggest that you not present them as an ultimatum, but rather what you "feel" needs to happen for your marriage to begin to be rebuilt. It is a subtle difference, but remember she did stray once and she may view an ultimatum with resentment.<p>Of course, you and I know these things MUST be accomplished [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] , but if she feels she has some say then you will have a willing participant in rebuilding your marriage, not one just doing it out of guilt.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

Doom,<p>What a great post. It is so good to hear you say these things. Sounds like you have been doing some serious thinking and self evaluation, a huge step towards your own personal recovery. <p>W agreeing to work on the M, quitting her job so she can get away from OM, what more can you ask for right now? Be cautious though, don't want to rain on your parade, but believing that W is no longer having any contact with OM is going to have to be proven to you by her. W told me that things were over but I found out a few weeks later that she was still trying to get back together with him. She still listens to a CD that he made for her, in my book that is still a form of contact.<p>Your objectives look good, seems like you have been thinking about them for a while. If I may add, make sure they are boundaries and not controlling factors. If W feels like you are trying to control her, she will balk at them. Have you read the Policy of Joint Agreement, I think it definetly applies here. If I may comment:<p>1- great! for both of you. There is no way you should even consider staying in a relationship that is physically abusive, I really hope she gets help with this issue. W will become a much better person to herself once she can control her anger
2- Marriage counselling, yes, but don't forget about individual counselling for yourself and W
3- This should be #1 on your list. I don't think recovery can begin until ALL contact is over.
4- Yes, seems that is what got most of us into this mess in the first place. Read about LB's and how to avoid them. Read His Needs/Her Needs, it will help. Be careful with communication, listen to what W is really saying instead of her actual words. Its going to be real hard to hear what W has to say at first, don't take it personally.
5- W asked me once if I would be angry if in 6 mos she found another man, my reply was would you be angry with me if in 6 mos I found another man as well. Yes, we should give the spouse the decency of divorce before getting involved with another person, but then that is what is so exciting and 'fulfilling' about A's.
6- Great again, you both have a lot of work ahead of you. JL's post about trust hits it right on. I printed it out to review often.<p>What happens from here on out is because of you. You can only control your own actions and reactions to the situation. Don't push the recovery. W will proceed at her own pace and you at your own (remember to keep looking up the triangle). Don't forgive to soon, forgiveness can only happen when WS comes to you and admits wrong, apologizes from the heart and asks you for forgiveness. Then you must forgive, both of you work through it, and make it a part of your past, not an obstacle in your future (works the same way for your mistakes). Its really good to hear you sound so positive! Stay with it!

Doom,<p>What a great post. It is so good to hear you say these things. Sounds like you have been doing some serious thinking and self evaluation, a huge step towards your own personal recovery. <p>W agreeing to work on the M, quitting her job so she can get away from OM, what more can you ask for right now? Be cautious though, don't want to rain on your parade, but believing that W is no longer having any contact with OM is going to have to be proven to you by her. W told me that things were over but I found out a few weeks later that she was still trying to get back together with him. She still listens to a CD that he made for her, in my book that is still a form of contact.<p>Your objectives look good, seems like you have been thinking about them for a while. If I may add, make sure they are boundaries and not controlling factors. If W feels like you are trying to control her, she will balk at them. Have you read the Policy of Joint Agreement, I think it definetly applies here. If I may comment:<p>1- great! for both of you. There is no way you should even consider staying in a relationship that is physically abusive, I really hope she gets help with this issue. W will become a much better person to herself once she can control her anger
2- Marriage counselling, yes, but don't forget about individual counselling for yourself and W
3- This should be #1 on your list. I don't think recovery can begin until ALL contact is over.
4- Yes, seems that is what got most of us into this mess in the first place. Read about LB's and how to avoid them. Read His Needs/Her Needs, it will help. Be careful with communication, listen to what W is really saying instead of her actual words. Its going to be real hard to hear what W has to say at first, don't take it personally.
5- W asked me once if I would be angry if in 6 mos she found another man, my reply was would you be angry with me if in 6 mos I found another man as well. Yes, we should give the spouse the decency of divorce before getting involved with another person, but then that is what is so exciting and 'fulfilling' about A's.
6- Great again, you both have a lot of work ahead of you. JL's post about trust hits it right on. I printed it out to review often.<p>What happens from here on out is because of you. You can only control your own actions and reactions to the situation. Don't push the recovery. W will proceed at her own pace and you at your own (remember to keep looking up the triangle). Don't forgive to soon, forgiveness can only happen when WS comes to you and admits wrong, apologizes from the heart and asks you for forgiveness. Then you must forgive, both of you work through it, and make it a part of your past, not an obstacle in your future (works the same way for your mistakes). Its really good to hear you sound so positive! Stay with it!

Doom,<p>
You sound much better. That anger can eat you alive. Keep up the good work. <p>
who

Ok, thanks for the input. Within the next few days we will sit down and talk. She has told me several times she will do what ever I want to save our M. <p>I wont be unreasonable or too demanding. I just want to be fair to both of us with these objectives. Once we decide the rules of engagement, together, we can move forward.<p>I will go into it with open eyes this time around though.

Dom,<p>My lying cheating jerk of a husband is a cop too. Part of your post hit a nerve, you said that you were working the midnight shift and W went looking for companionship. That was also a reason that H has given me for his PA with a 17 year old drug informant. He works nights and I work days and he "got lonely". And he has also told me that he didn't mean for it to happen, "it just happened". Like that is going to make it all better, just because it wasn't premediated doesn't mean that it didn't happen.
Your post sounds so much like my feelings right now and I have used your exact words about crossing the street to put his fire out. Your wife is willing to try and my H is living with his child. So at least, you have a start.
I hope that you and your W work it out and that things get better for you. Just take it one day at a time and remember that your true friends will understand and stand by you.

doom,<p>how's it going?