Well Thanksgiving was a festive holiday. The day was nice, the food was good, and for dessert, OW called the house. I said H wasn't home (he was outside with the dogs). H came back in and I told him that I wasn't going to be childish, and as my whole body shook, I told him about the call. He told me not to worry, he wasn't going to call her back, as per our agreement. A coulple minutes later, he was on the phone with her right in front of me for 25 min. Plan B is going into effect tonight!!!!!

Arpow,
What an awful thing to have happen on such a special day. Here we are being thankful for what we have and then that has to happen. Do you know what the conversation was all about. Personally, I would have hung up on OW as soon as I recognized her voice and never told H that she called. Afer all, its your house too and you have some rights to privacy. Any way you can get her number blocked?<p>Did you Plan B like you said? If I recall, you found out about the A only a short time ago, correct? You have every right to be angry, especially with H's insensitive attitude towards you. Remember H is still in the fog, maybe there was an underlying reason why he called OW back with you around. Wish I could offer you something more.<p>Don't Plan B out of anger, you have to really think about it and see if it is what you WANT to do. I have many times thought about moving into Plan B, but after a lot of thought, prayer, and advice from my friends here, know it is still too soon.<p>Stand firm and strong, we are all here for you.

I couldn't post everything, H was home from work, so you got the summary...After the call was made, I asked 20 questions. A lot of the converastion was cryptic,(yes,no,yea,maybe,sounds good to me) The conversation ended with him facing his back to me and whispering "definatly yes". Of course when asked why such a strong response? H said he didn't remember what she said. He said sorry countless times, I asked him why after he knew how I felt, did he call her back, on a holiday, infront of kids and company and 25 min. no less? He said he thought he was doing the right thing...I said by who? Maybe by her.
We talked more and I told him that he needed to have a conversation with OW. (H claims he has no feelings for her and the phone calls from his side have stoped, but she keeps calling him. I've also recived calls from strange men, and have out of state cars drive past my house at all hours of the morning. Since we live on a cul-de-sac that is a little scary) Anyway I said he needs to tell her point blank, he is a married man, and he is going to work things out with his wife, and because of that reason, it needs to stop. I said you make that call right now, or I will make it,the choice is yours. He said he wouldn't handle it as a conflict, because he was afraid of his job???? o.k. well what does she have on you? He said if this whole fatal attraction is a reality, he is scared she might play the scorned woman role, and tell the boss some story to get him fired....
I told him I could'nt live like this, all the fighting and uncertainty, and I told him maybe it would be better if he stayed with his mom untill he "found himself". Then later that night we went to the C. She said it was not a good idea to do that so he stayed here last night. C also told him to make the call. She said the OW was aggressive and needed to be delt with before she did more damage. That is it for now.............

Doesn't sound like things went to bad. I know the talking must have left you frustrated, but H did talk to you and sounds like was trying to open up to you just a little bit. Don't listen to his exact words, but at what he was really trying to say. H does need to push the no contact issue and the sooner the better. Maybe you two can try and come up with some game plan, let him play OW and you be H and brainstorm some ideas.<p>Right now, it seems that your personal safety is a bigger issue than anything else. From what you tell us, it looks like someone might be stalking you, DO NOT IGNORE THIS! You need to contact the police and let them know what is going on, if its nothing then fine, but if it is something, then what? Get a notebook and pen handy and record every suspicious car that comes around, get the license number, color, make, model, physical description of occupants, time, and what they did. Log every suspicious phone call, get caller id and record everything, maybe call the phone company and see if they can help. The more evidence you have, the better, but it has to be recorded and verifiable, not just "I think I remember this or that" Who knows, maybe you can get a restraining order against OW and H wont have to quit his job, beat her to the punch (so to speak).<p>Keep fighting for what you know is right.

H came home Fri night after spending Thur. night in a hotel for yet another "business" trip. When I called him he rushed me off the phone, he said he was busy.(I wonder doing what) Anyway when he came home he told me that the company X-mas party was taking place next week. It is manditory because clients are going to be present. Here is the clincher, it is out of state, and no spouses are allowed to attend. Employees are, but spouses are not. The OW is an employee. The last time there was a company party, spouses weren't allowed to attend, and from what H said, that is where the A started. I'm pissed. What do I do? He already told me that because it is out of state, there is a good possibility he might get a room in case he drinks too much and can't drive home. He also said he is still confused about his feelings and said he doesn't want to talk to me. I also found out he might have put a order in for Viagra. (he is not using it with me) he took off tonight, because he felt uncomfortable around me because of all the pain he has caused me. He wanted to be alone to think, BUT he took his cell phone with him (gee I wonder who he plans to call) I'm going out of mind. All I did today was cry. The holidays are going to be joyous....Any thoughts?

Just read through this whole post. In all honesty, I don't know of any christmas parties that are 'no spouses allowed'. This is my take on it - do you know/speak to anyone else at your H's office? if so, can you call them, and ask nicely if spouses are allowed at the party, as your H was unsure. I know this is sneaky, but at the same time F it. This is not just your husband's life, it's yours as well.<p>Aside from the emotional distress this is causing you this is also your physical life he is taking into his own hands. My opinion is that no one on this planet has the right to take your physical life, or put it in danger.<p>Good luck to you, and many hugs during your struggle.<p>wishful.

ARPOW

Have you read the material on this web site and the book Surviving an Affair? It does not sound like you have as it is a very bad idea for your H to have a talk with the OW to end the affair. This gives her a chance to influence him. Please read the book and check out the no contact letter. It breaks of the affair, states that the WS is working on their marriage and that the WS wants no further contact with the OW. He should not talk to her.<p>Here is place to get started ... WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses <p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=29&t=000940<p>And another.....<p>General Welcome for All New Builders <p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=29&t=000553<p>As for the xmas party being a non-spouse party.. ah, I would not buy that at all. Call his office and find out. If it is a spouse only party and he is going to get a hotel room, then go with him. He can make the required appearance and then you two can take off to have a good time. The idea that customers are going to be there and he's going to drink too much? This is certainly not a way to conduct good business.<p>Your H's point about having to keep up things to keep the OW from harssing him or causing him to loose his job is somewhat valid. I've heard of OP's doing all sorts of awful things. But he can take the power away from her by quiting his job and finding another. That is another thing that Dr. Harley suggests. He needs to just get away from her and stop all contact. If it means quiting his job then so be it.<p>Please do ready the MB books and materials as they can provide you with a lot of very good information and guidance.<p>Z

Thank you all for your responses. I printed out and read the info. I think H's mind is already made up. I think he is going to leave. His actions are painfully obivious that his mind is elsewhere. H hasn't come out and said it, but I think he is maybe waiting untill after the holidays to take off. He says contact has been broken off, which again, is another lie. Close friends have made comments about him not having the money or a place to stay, so he is taking the time to save up. In the meantime I sit around wondering if this is the day. Also this morning I had a conversation with the neighbor. H was talking to her boyfriend and she heard him saying he won't be around much longer. We go to the C tonight. I'm also going to talk to a lawyer this afternoon, to find out where I stand in all of this legally. ( I REALLY don't mean to quote Britney Spears) but this loneliness is killing me....So my main question to any of you out there who is familiar with my saga, if his mind is already made up, is there hope? Do we continue seeing the C? Do I tell him to leave, or do I just sit here, be ignored, and lied to? I really want to save this marriage, but is it possible?

Its 6:00 Monday morning..H just left for work. He works 1 1/2 hrs. away, his office doesn't open till 8:30. He came home late Friday night @ 9:00, he said he went out for a drink with a male co-worker, but also said the reason he didn't answer his cell phone was because he was on the phone with the same male co-worker, and didn't want to click over. Sat. morning, I checked his call history, I saw he called OW. He denied it at first, but then said he did call her. (I should just get over it they are friends) Then said "Whats the matter, was the weekend going to smoothly for you? Was I smiling to much for you, that you had to bring her up, start a fight and ruin the day?" Our last C meeting he said to me and the C that ALL contact had been broken, and when C and I both asked him directly if he made phone calls to her on a certian weekend, both times he got indignunt, and said no. Well that was also a lie, he admitted it during the argument. There was also a strangly familar number in his cell phone history, made 1 hr. before the call to OW. I reconized it as the threatning call that was made to me a few weeks ago. (read previous posts) He said he didn't know the number, than after a while, admitted it was OW's sister. (after a little more digging, I found at least 2 more entries dating back to 11-30-01). We have a C appt tonight. I am so tired of all the lies, and all the blame being put on me. With the way he's behaving you would think I were the WS and him the BS. I want sssoooo badly to e-mail OW and tell her to step off. She is from a culture that if her father found out she was having an A with a married Christen there would be hell to pay, but I bring myself to do this. I'm tired....

ARPOW,
Please, listen to Zorweb and read and understand Marriage Builder concept. You will regeret what you are doing right now. What you & your C is doing is making him not feeling "safe" to come back home. I know you are hurt right now we are all still going through this. However you have to do the contratry what you are doing right now.<p>Understand and accept this: HE MAKE HIS CHOICE AND YOU CAN NOT FORCE HIM TO. What you can do is change HIS CHOICE. MB will help you out and there are many success stories & the more you understand MB the more it will make sense.<p>Please set aside your urge to end A and to corner H. It is never fair and it will feel that you enable it too. However you have to let A dies naturally. How ?. A has to be exposed ! to let the world judge them and let the them realize that there are price to pay in their "fantasy". Let H live and follow the fogese life. Do plan A to address the issue(s) in your M that is under your control. You have your chance to kick H out when you are in plan B. For now, forcing H out will drive it to OW easily and make it harder for you to see or monitor your progress in plan A.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>....So my main question to any of you out there who is familiar with my saga, if his mind is already made up, is there hope? Do we continue seeing the C? Do I tell him to leave, or do I just sit here, be ignored, and lied to? I really want to save this marriage, but is it possible? </strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, there are hopes despite the current situation. Yes, you need to see C but change it to Steve or Jannifer at MB. I get help from Steve and it helps me to understand MB all about. No, you should ignore A and ignore H lies, read up on the information below as much as you can, read SAA book. You are in control of this action. We all here try to save out M and learn MB you will see that you have much more control to save your M. For now, never discuss A, never discuss he is moving out unless he brings it up.

Sat. night, we went to a X-mas party. OW called, but left no message. How do i stop this persistant b*tch from calling my house? I can't prevent her from contacting H, but I think there must be something I can do. I could change the number, but he can give her the new one. Any thoughts?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ARPOW:
<strong>Sat. night, we went to a X-mas party. OW called, but left no message. How do i stop this persistant b*tch from calling my house? I can't prevent her from contacting H, but I think there must be something I can do. I could change the number, but he can give her the new one. Any thoughts?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Do you have caller id service from your baby bell ?. Subcribe one. Also ask them to refuse undisclosed caller plus block that number. However still those are minor annoyances, what have you done lately for your plan A ?. Have you make a list of issue(s) that he told you in the past but discard excuse (justification of A) ?. Those are your basis for plan A.

After OW called the house the first time, I noticed on the caller ID she came up "blocked call", so I activated the service. Sometime during Sat. someone from my house deactivated the service(*87) This info I got from ma bell, however they can't tell me when it happened. They also can't tell me where the "blocked call" came from at 11:01 on Sat. night. Only 2 people call here w/ blocked #'s I asked my friend, and she said DUH, how could I have made that call, was at the party with you. The only other person is OW, and H was on his cell phone with her 2 on Friday. As far as plan A, I think people's words from here are finally sinking in. I know I can't end the A. It has to die on its own. In the meantime, I want to concentrate on me and the boys, and figure out what i need to change to make myself happy.

ARPOW,
Praise God finally you figure it out. Set up a solid plan A, look out for LB then do it. See my other posts reply about setting up plan A.<p>I have faith that you would do it well, I am a resillient bug that won't go away easy. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] Keep us posted.

I just posted on GQ11. My H is going to the X-mas party solo. OW will be there. He is staying over night. My friend and I will be making a road trip. This is a huge LB (i think) but I think it will give me the answers I need to move on.(for the better or worse)
Last night I went out to my weekly hang out and ran into a good friend (who is male)who I haven't seen since before DDay. I gave him a breif summary of what was going on with me, and he did the same. He told me in the last month and a half, he came to some realizations.(again remember I'm not a real good speller)He broke up with his girlfriend of 2 yrs. I was shocked. When I asked him why he said because he loves me. He said I was all he thinks about, and knowing the situation with me, is infurated that H is treating me like this. He said because of his feelings for me are so strong and so definate, he would wait as long as he had to for us to be together. I walked away from him, and had a strong stiff shot of a beverage. I told him even though things look bleek right now with my future with H, I was going to give it my all to make things work. I also told him with where I am in my life now, if me and H were to break up, the last place I need to be is with another man. If the break up happens, I need to be with me and my boys, and maybe in time I will allow myself to date again, but that I needed time to heal. He said he understood, and would wait for as long as he had to. My head is spinning. The only thing I'm clear about is working on me and my boys.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ARPOW:
<strong>I just posted on GQ11. My H is going to the X-mas party solo. OW will be there. He is staying over night. My friend and I will be making a road trip. This is a huge LB (i think) but I think it will give me the answers I need to move on.(for the better or worse)
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>No, it is not LB. If H gets mad tell him that he has nothing to worry about if he is telling the truth (of course w/ no angry tone or outburst) and you need this to assure you. It is cause and effect, fogese talk.<p>Good luck on your stake out.

Thanks redhat, I'll keep you updated...

I just posted the story on GQ11. I'm giving up the fight. I'm waiting for a call back from a lawyer. He will never change. I don't plan on being his door mat while he grows up and faces the lonely reality that he has created for himself. What he wants in a woman is a submissive sex toy that caters to his every whim, whose whole world revolves around his exsistence, waits on hin hand and foot and has no opinion of her own except his. I am not like that, nor do I plan to ever be. I'm a strong passionate woman who puts my kids first, and who has opinions that I would stand strong to defend. I will be better off on my own. This tension in the house has taken a toll on my boys. [censored] my H as all his EN. I tried my best to make it work, he chose not to. I have to concentrate on me, and damage control for the kids. We'll see what the future brings, I know (from previous statements)H is not going to go quietly. I'll keep you posted..

ARPOW,<p>I concur with RedHat and Zorweb. I have a separate post here on JFO that you might find interesting. I've been in Plan A for sixteen months. My wife just confessed to an affair. We are heavily into MB counseling to help us work through this. Some important things though: my wife chose to end the affair, and work on our marriage, because of the changes I made in Plan A. If I would have Plan B'd with the "old me", nothing would have made her happier. I don't mean to upset you with this, and it's pretty straightforward, but your husband is not going to break off the affair until he sees a reason. A marriage partner that he desires to work things out with. He obviously doesn't see that now. <p>I know, it's crappy, that you, the betrayed one have to do this, but it isn't going to happen any other way. The other thing, my wife broke it off with OM several times, but tried to remain friends. Her caring in several events kept drawing them back together. NO CONTACT is the only thing that will work. And yes, your husband may have to find another job. Just depends on whether you guys want a marriage or an income stream.<p>As for you getting involved in telling the OW to leave your husband alone. Won't work. She just sees you as a nuisance. Your husband is showing her (by accepting his calls) that OW is more important. <p>Buy Surviving an Affair book NOW! Read it twice. Then discuss it with your counselor. If she/he is clueless (like mine was), get another counselor. If you want to improve your chances, get MB counseling. When you read the book, you will see why everything you are doing will not end this. You are spinning your wheels, and inadvertently draining your husbands deposits in your own love bank. Eventually, you won't care about him at all. If you think it is tough to Plan A now, wait till you have no feelings for him. And as long as he is involved with the OW, your deposits in his love bank will be minimal.<p>Finally, I don't want to come over as being harsh or inconsiderate. I really feel for you. But the reality is that your marriage can survive and prosper, but only if you get with the program, and now.<p>We're probably in the very early stages of recovery. If you want to read about how we got here, as well as the program the MB counselor is using for recovery, I have a post in JFO under my username. Good luck with your efforts. And God bless you for doing this. If nothing else, consider your efforts a wonderful gift you are giving to your husband, and your children.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ARPOW:
<strong> Last night I went out to my weekly hang out and ran into a good friend (who is male)who I haven't seen since before DDay. I gave him a breif summary of what was going on with me, and he did the same. He told me in the last month and a half, he came to some realizations.(again remember I'm not a real good speller)He broke up with his girlfriend of 2 yrs. I was shocked. When I asked him why he said because he loves me. He said I was all he thinks about, and knowing the situation with me, is infurated that H is treating me like this. He said because of his feelings for me are so strong and so definate, he would wait as long as he had to for us to be together. I walked away from him, and had a strong stiff shot of a beverage. I told him even though things look bleek right now with my future with H, I was going to give it my all to make things work. I also told him with where I am in my life now, if me and H were to break up, the last place I need to be is with another man. If the break up happens, I need to be with me and my boys, and maybe in time I will allow myself to date again, but that I needed time to heal. He said he understood, and would wait for as long as he had to. My head is spinning. The only thing I'm clear about is working on me and my boys.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>ARPOW,<p>Get ready. I hate to say this, but this is so textbook in the way that people are drawn together and affairs start. You need to stop all contact with this person. You may say you are strong, but your heart right now is very vulnerable. It would take very little for this OM to make deposits in your love bank. And eventually, for you to have an affair of your own.<p>One thing that Jenn (MB counselor) made me do while being in Plan A, is to realize this, and protect my love bank from other women by maintaining no contact. Do only things with my wife, or friends that are guys. You can say "oh no, that would never happen to me, because I don't believe in affairs, or am religous, or whatever." This is all BS. It can happen to you, and WILL happen if YOU do not take extraordinary precautions. That means "no contact." If you want to share your troubles with someone, do it on this board, or find a female friend.