bryanp- That was a good post.<p>ty- What did W think about that post? What did she say when you asked her the question you posted to me? ( about being lonely?)<p> I don't have any answers for you Ty, but to Ty's W, sit back here it goes. When I was 16 I fell head over heels in love with a wonderful man. he was 2 1/2 years older than me. We were together for almost 5 years. I missed out on all the dating in high school, all the parties (he wasn't much of a pariter) and all the fun stuff single young friends do on Saturday nights. My wonderful guy wasn't the best looking guy in the world, but he had the biggest, most loving heart anyone could ever have. He loved me more than life our realtionship was truly one of the best experiences of my life. Than it started. People consently telling me he was garbage, he wasn't good looking enough, smart enough, he had no ambition, he didn't treat me right, all of this was coming from dear ol' mom and a friend (I thought) who had a big influence on me who didn't care for him. I just brushed them all off at first, but when I started to get attention from other guys, nice looking guys with fancey cars, and money to throw around, I thought the grass looked greener and moved on....TY'S WIFE IF YOU DON'T LISTEN TO A WORD ANYONE POSTS HERE LISTEN TO THIS, TO DATE, LETTING THAT MAN GO WAS THE SINGLE MOST BIGGEST MISTAKE I HAVE EVER MADE IN MY LIFE. If I could go back in time to change it I would in a heart beat. He now has a great job and a girl in his life that makes him very happy. I'm very happy for him, but miss him. That was 10 yrs. ago. Now I'm in a M with a man that claims he loves me but is not in love with me. He lies, cheats manipulates and ignores me and the kids. What comes around, goes around I'm living proof, heed my words, and reconsider this trip and your A. You have a man who loves you, who knows what he knows, and is still willing to work things out, and HE LOVES YOU. Don't look back 10 yrs. from now and feel the pain as I do......

Ty's Wife,<p>You said: <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Do I not owe it to my H to be true to myself? <hr></blockquote> <p>You asked an interesting question. You don't owe your H anything. Getting married was not a debt you incurred. You made a vow to him when you got married. <p>Do you know why marriage is such a serious ceremony? Because it was and is recognized that people grow, they change, they have awful things happen to them, they have children, the have children die, their parents die. Life is full of very good and very bad turns. Marriage is not about being just HAPPY or CONTENTED. It is about finding your way through life WITH someone. Someone YOU choose to go through life with.<p>Ty's Wife, you should be finding yourself with your H by your side. He can help you, support you, suffer with you, enjoy with you, and share with you while YOU find yourself and make a life. Ty made a vow to go through this with you. You will find absolutely none of yourself in another man. Just as you haven't found yourself in Ty. He can help, he can love, he can support, but he cannot find you for you. He is willing to do this. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I mean what is a committment without truley meaning it? Wouldn't it be a cop-out to just say OK, let's make this marriage work? I've actually said this before to H, but didn't really mean it.<hr></blockquote><p>What didn't you mean? That you lied when you got married or that you need help with where you are now and you won't let your H help? Dear Ty's W commitment means doing the right things in the right way even when you don't feel or want to do them. There is no need for commitment, when everything is going well and you are happy with the situation. <p>That is like saying you are an honest person, but have never been tempted to lie, cheat or steal. There is a saying: "Character is what you do, when no one is watching." Honesty is the same thing, and so is commitment.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I guess I was hoping that these feelings for the OM, my worthlessness for what I've done would simply go away, but it hasn't. I know this cannot continue and I do want the madness to end, to everyone involves benefit.<hr></blockquote><p>The feelings for OM won't go away, nor will your feeling of worthlessness. You know why? When you do nothing, then nothing changes. One of the tenants of Harley's approach is that things can change and will change with action.<p>Feelings come and they go in intensity, but the focus of your feelings can be changed by addressing them, and working on them. Love can be rebuilt. Do you doubt me??? Want proof??<p>Look in the mirror. You are the poster child for Harley's observation. You fell in love with a man over the internet, by just taking to him about your feelings, your fears, your hopes, your dreams. He did the same.<p>Further, you fell in love with your H for many if not all of the same reasons. Right now you have fallen out of love with your H, because you did the reverse process, you have focused on all of his faults, and his failings. You needed to do this in order to justify in your mind what you are doing and feeling for the OM.<p>Dear Lady, that is why there is commitment and that is why there is marriage. It has been known for many thousands of years that feelings come and go. That feelings can be changed and are changed, yet there is a deep need in all of us for love, support, help, and stability, it helps us endure life, raise and nuture children.<p>You are clearly young and you don't see the future well, but the deeper more important things in life await your discovery. It is clear all you are thinking about is your "feelings".<p>Step back, and look inward and discover yourself. There is very likely a person in there that you would like very much and your H would adore.<p>You are not going to find anything on this trip that you don't already know. That is why you are so conflicted. Your feelings are saying one thing, but your head and your heart are saying something else. You know what commitment is. You know your H loves you deeply. You know (especially if you have read here) that your marriage can become much better with effort on your H's part and your's. You also know that the OM isn't all you have envisioned him. He seems so perfect now, but you know he isn't perfect.<p>I believe I read he is divorced from is W because she has problems with alcohol. Now several possibilities exist. 1. He is a lousy judge of women and character. 2. He helped driver her to drink. Neither of those are glowing recommendations for a spouse especially since he is having an affair with a married woman.<p>Ty's W, I realize you are deeply confused right now. I realize this is very hard for you, but the surest way out and the way that will lead you to find yourself and be the happiest is: <p>To do the "Right Thing", right.<p>Stay with your H, and then commit yourself to improving yourself, and your marriage. I am sure he will commit to improving himself and the marriage. You will feel better sooner, you will find yourself, and you will discover things about both of you that you never knew.<p>That is my advice, and I am sticking to it. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>God Bless,<p>JL<p>[ December 07, 2001: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</p>

Thanks Bryanp and Anprow - this is bs - she has not read these yet but I am looking forward to tonight when she does. You people can put my thoughts in words from a different perspective. I asked her after she wrote that post about this affair being an addiction, she doesn't see it that way at all. Is there anyway to explain this so she can understand - or she just won't?<p>Lucks had mentioned that the A is a 2 dimensional relationship - when they live so far away, and the desire for 'more' is there, won't that fact keep this A around longer, because the basis of their relationship is e-mail - my point, if not clear, is she'll never 'see the light' or see the reality unless it first becomes a 3-d relationship? just a pessimistic opinion I guess.<p>We almost had a blow out this afternoon because I almost sent a letter to the OM. I was just about ready to send it and I just couldn't do it. She asked me a while ago to let her know before I send it so she can prepare for his call. I called her as I was going to send it and I could sense the anger in her - I don't like pissing her off! I didn't send it. I know, she's not respecting me - but I do love her and I don't like seeing her upset, and most of all, the confusion she must be feeling going through this EA/PA. Thanks for listening as I'm pouring my feelings to the entire world. I know God's reading this too. sorry for the mention of God quite often, but that's one way I continue to pray. wierd, I know....<p>[ December 07, 2001: Message edited by: tycush ]</p>

Hello Ty,<p>Addicted people never see their addiction. So quit trying to get her to see it. In fact, the very fact that she is addicted means she is unlikely to see it, or the damage in a realistic light. It is true of hard drugs, alcohol, sex, anything people become addicted to, they cannot see it for what it is, until they hit bottom and seek help.<p>Same here buddy. You cannot do a darn thing, but watch the Titanic hit the berg again. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>So quit trying to do this. She will see this in her good time. It may be too late for the marriage or it may not, that part is really up to you. I somehow think you haven't gotten the full meaning of Harley's plans. They buy time for you with yourself, they don't end affairs.<p>Time and patience. Only you can decide your future and only she can decide hers. I do hope that you both realize and decide that your futures go together.<p>Hang in there and God Bless,<p>JL

tycush- Where have you been? How are things working out? The trip is soon right? I'm hoping that you not posting in a couple days is a good thing....

Arpow, I would say it's better! I've been soul searching myself. no action other than learning what love is.. not just a flooded love unit bank - your bank can be filled or empty and still be in Love. still not sure if she's going or staying. It doesn't change my Love for WS - actually it does... by staying together, not seperating, it makes Love stronger - with less hate...[seperating is a symptom of HATING not being together] why do some people hate it when you do something wrong [and tell you about it in your face], and some people say, it will be ok, next time you'll do it right - [learn from mistakes, right?] those people who hate it when you do something wrong, do things wrong themselves and Hate it - therefore hating others that do wrong. not that I've been unfaithfull with another woman and hate it, therefore hating her actions but I've cheated my family when addicted to golf and bowling over the past few years - this realization happened earlier this year and I hate myself for doing it, therefore hating her actions right now. Would I take her back,,, she took me back.. It's called unconditional Love. (I loved myself for doing it and I love myself for not doing it) I agree, I don't know how to love unconditionally all the way - YET, but I'm getting there.<p>You had mentioned in an earlier post that respect is a two lane highway - correct as I see it [now] respect others as you expect to be treated, YES, but, the two lane highway is respect others and [don't expect] others to treat you with respect, respect yourself and you'll be respected.. yes, no?<p>Yeah, I don't agree with what she's doing and I don't exactly know what I will decide for me if she goes.. my hate may over-power my love for her and leave, or kick her out, will I still love her, YES. Do I want her to go.. NO. Pray with me. I believe in talking with this forum and other forums, she's on the fenceline of going or not - realizing, maybe, that she's not going to find her happiness and love IN/WITH another man - only in herself for loving, knowing, and accepting what she's doing is in Hate, not Love. Love / family can be built with love In Love. make any sense? thanks.<p>one more thought.. WS can choose to go or not go - either way she will still have to find love and respect in her own faults and LESS hate toward other's faults [particularly, in me] - me too!<p>ok, enough for now. Love all your opinions for they are yours!<p>[ December 10, 2001: Message edited by: tycush ]<p>[ December 10, 2001: Message edited by: tycush ]</p>

Don't play your wifey's little game. <p>I have been reading this thread and have not yet responded to it, but I feel like I should.<p>My wife played the exact little headgame as yours, and trust me, its nothing but a powertrip on her side. Imagine, she has two guys fighting, more or less, over her. <p>Who in a confused state wouldn't like that?<p>She is just playing you, and the other dweeb, she will meet this other guy no matter what you do..<p>You don't matter to her at the moment, if you did, she wouldn't do this to you.<p>She is willing to let everything you two ever had go, to be with this other peep. Be it that you two never had anything much in her opinion, or that she always did everything in her humble opinion, but she is still playing you. <p>Its not good for you, find a way out.<p>Or live with more lies and deceit.<p>This entire thing is nothing more than a powertrip on her part. <p>Oh, besides, if she wants to cheat, in all likelihood, if you have no marks against you as a parent, you will get custody of the child.<p>But, she will use the child against you too, so, since you are the one who seems to be the one in clarity, be carefull about the kid.<p>Like I said, my wife went the same way, now we are both enjoying the benefits of hepatitis-b and herpes.<p>What kind of decent guy would ever go after a married woman?<p>If anyone involved wants to talk, email nopemike@yahoo.com<p>
This thing sounds too much like my wife's escapades its scary.