Thanks P, I'm always glad to help if I can.<p>I try to have a "positive" outlook on this all, even though it feels like the odds are against me.<p>I think I would be nowhere near wher I am today without all of you to get me through this.<p>I am eternally grateful for all of you.<p>Hmm...I wonder where Redhat, and Orchid are? Haven't seem them today...<p>[ January 02, 2002: Message edited by: Torizo ]</p>

Hey, T, I am around... this is first day of work for me and also I just LB'ed my WW that showed up this morning as I pull out to drop my kid to school and ask me if I want her to take the kids. No explaination why she did not call, she just want the kids now !!!.<p>Anyway, you did good. Hang in there, get busy to send those resumes and let her know that you are changing indirectly w/ actions. I will catch you up later.

Hey RH, Good to hear W is still around, But no explanation of "why" or "where" ? Seems kind of odd. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Yeah, my poor printer is going to explode, I have printed soo many resumes' [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>The contact thing is essentially up to her though, my reason for that is : whenever I call it always feels like "why are YOU calling?" but, thats my opinion, whether she knows shes doing it on purpose or not, now thats a different story.<p>I will still send email, though she rarely checks it, and have decided to start mailing a card, letter, poem, thoughts, Ect. once a week.<p>I can only hope she likes what I send. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

Just got off of phone with W, (I called her to see how she is doing), We talked about her life and if I had found a job yet. I told her I had a couple interviews and such, and she said that was good. I told her I missed her, and she whispered it back.(this is a good sign?) I told her "home" was always open to her, and she asked Is it? I said of course it is. Then somehow we started talking about if she was happy there, she said "I don't know", So I asked if "she wanted to come home", and she said "I don't know how"(what do you make of that?). So I offered to help her, she said "she couldn't talk about it right now, and she talk to me friday Morning about it" ( it was obvious OM was somewhere nearby, by her reluctance to talk) (Friday Morning OM has interview). I told her how much I love her, and she said "I know you do", Then I asked(probably shouldn't have) "if she still had love for me", and she said "of course I do"(sincerely). she was somewhat urgent to get off the phone, so I told her "I love her and would talk to her on friday morning", we then said goodbye.<p>This is the first complete conversation that didn't seem "cold" towards me.(I think being apart is starting to take it's toll).<p>So can anyone make some sense of this? is this the fog lifting, and "real-life" setting in? or what? [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>The fog is confusing at times... Is this the "chance" I have been waiting for? [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I looked back across my entire post, I REALLY need to slow down when typing, Sooooooo many errors. lol<p>[ January 02, 2002: Message edited by: Torizo ]</p>

Hi T,<p>You sound better. Lots of positive stuff in your last post. You seem like you have deposited some LB points. I don't really like to put it that way but I am sure you know what I mean. <p>Keep learning and growing. Sometimes we (bs) only feel like we spend our time waiting and wondering and it is true. It does pay off in the end whatever that may be. Why? Because it helps us learn about ourselves. That is why it is important to keep busy during those waiting times. <p>I will check back later. <p>Take Care,
L.

Hey O, Yeah it's looking a little better right now, but she is prone to change her mind, Ya know those fog people [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . As it has been from the start, Only time will tell.<p>We'll se if she calls me Friday or not, that is the real test here.<p>I think the A is starting to die, I of course can't be sure, but all is not well in fantasy land.<p>I'll talk to you later. Friday is the next expected update, but we'll see, I will probably have something to say before that. lol [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

Torizo,<p>WW gave explanations that is so lame that even my 9 y/o rolled her eyes. I don't even go there. After my LB this morning, she cooked dinner but we ate out side. She has left for class tonight (OM is in the class too) and I won't see her at all ... her regular schedule. SH told me to dig my trenches and stayed there for the long haul.<p>Even if your W like your cards, poem ... she will not tell you [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] , Venusian's thing.<p>Hey, how about Vanilla Sky ?. I am planning to go by myself this weekend. I did that several week ago w/ spy game, it was good but don't weep for true love. R movies, my 2 D can't go.

RH, sorry to hear about W, I wish I had something profound to say, all I can say is, hang in there.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Even if your W like your cards, poem ... she will not tell you , Venusian's thing. <hr></blockquote><p>You are right, But it does affect her emotionally, even if she don't say a word. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Yeah Vanilla Sky looks ok, My W would like that one, I want to see LotR again. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Job interview today @ 2:30pm, Got my fingers crossed for this one, ALOT more $$$ than my last job.I hope I get it...<p>Take care of yourselves, God Bless...<p>P.S. Interview went well (I think), I have to call them back on monday with my decision, Lotsa money with this one. (Essentially the company is an agency to place people in professional jobs, instad of a company doing their own hiring, they contract out the company I applied to, to do the hiring for them) it is essentially a sales position. Downside : 11 Hour days, 1/2 day on saturday, I am somewhat reluctant to take it because I feel it would put a strain on the already stressed M. That is my only negative about this. Let me know what you think...<p>[ January 03, 2002: Message edited by: Torizo ]</p>

Just Got off phone with W, Talked about interview and things, I told her about the hours and asked her "if she decides to come home would she have any problem with the long hours?" and she said no.<p>I asked about what time she was going to call in the morning, she said about 10:00-10:30. I said ok, and she said she had to go(Making dinner, One of her responsibilities for living there, so she says...)So I told her I love her and I miss her, and we said goodbye.<p>Not a "cold" conversation , But it wasn't exactly "warm" either, Kind of in between.<p>I don't know what is going to happen tomorrow(if she even calls) I hope she is considering coming home, but in her last call she said she didn't know "how"? What does she mean by that? don't know how to leave him? or how she is going to "make it up to me"? I didn't ask, but now I'm curious.<p>Any Ideas???

Torizo,
WW usually realizes that the grass is not that green after all but still mowing on it. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>If I were you I would not ask her just to come home yet. Let her be to find out "the taste of the grass". A will die sooner or later. When it does you ask her also to work on M as a condition, including no contact letter. If you take her now in the middle of the fog you will have half of a woman (picking Orchid term). You will have an issue of making her a complete woman for you later. Unless you are sure you could handle it.<p>I don't know what is going to happen tomorrow(if she even calls) I hope she is considering coming home, but in her last call she said she didn't know "how"? What does she mean by that? don't know how to leave him? or how she is going to "make it up to me"? I didn't ask, but now I'm curious. Any Ideas???
She is a bit confused, that is good, your plan A is taking effect. Let her know the home door is always open but with one condition to work on M as MB prescribe, including no contact letter. Otherwise keep plan A'ng her and wait until the A dies. There is no retribution to us (BS) my freind, only a chance to work on fulfilling M.<p>[ January 04, 2002: Message edited by: redhat ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>When it does you ask her also to work on M as a condition, including no contact letter. <hr></blockquote>
Definate Conditions, as well as MB Maritial Recovery Agreement.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> If you take her now in the middle of the fog you will have half of a woman (picking Orchid term). You will have an issue of making her a complete woman for you later. Unless you are sure you could handle it. <hr></blockquote><p>Even if I asked her to come home now, I think ther is still some time spent away from home, after all OM has to get his @$$ back to NY where he belongs. And I know she won't just "leave" him at her friends house.<p>As for the half a woman, It can't be much harder than waiting while you know in the back of your mind she is having a "good" time with what she is doing.It is probably hard though. And besides, I can't even be sure she wants to "really" come home at this point.<p>I've handled it up til' now, and have no plans of giving up. I think I could do it, with all of your guys(and girls)help.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Let her know the home door is always open but with one condition to work on M as MB prescribe, including no contact letter. <hr></blockquote><p>I think she know about the door being open, but I will still reaffirm that idea. I'll tell her about the "conditions" today, if it comes down to she wants to come home.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> There is no retribution to us (BS) my freind, only a chance to work on fulfilling M. <hr></blockquote><p>Ain't it the truth...<p>So, we will see what happens, I'll post after we talk.(If she calls).

Just got off the phone with W, She told me she has been thinking alot lately about things, and she said she is willing to come home and commit to our M. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] So I told her the conditions of coming home and she said they were ok with her. She has told me she thinks it could potentiall work with OM, but she lays in bed at night thinking of me, and if what she has done is a mistake, so she has decided to give our M another chance.<p>Unfortunately(isn't there always a downside to the better moments?) she doesn't know what to do with OM, his friends in NY have his stuff, and he has no more Apt. in NY. I asked/told her some suggestions, either he can move in with a friend in NY(Preferred) or he can get himself an Apt. here(Not preffered).<p>She said she will talk with him, she told him last night that she was thinking of coming home, He told her he loves her, and that he was afraid this would happen.<p>She also said, the reason she hasn't told me this sooner is he is ALWAYS right there with her, if she takes the phone to another room, he follows her, always afraid it is me she is talking to.(Can we say possesive?)<p>She said she would call me next chance she gets, and we would talk some more.<p>Oh and the highlight to our conversation: She said she loves me,(Yes she really said it) [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] She said she has never stopped loving me, and that she misses me as well. I told her how much I love her and miss her, and reaffirmed the fact that "home" is always open to her. We said our I love yous and said goodbye...<p>BTW She says she hopes to come home by the end of next week.<p>Things are starting to look up finally, and I have all of you to thank. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] You would be proud of me, No LBs, no anger, no judgement, I just listened and responded,(Thinking out my words before I said them).
Thank You All for being here for me, and thank you Harleys for the wonderful books,and an amazing website.I am eternally Grateful...<p>No, don't even think for a minute I'm leaving, I'll still need help with things, and besides, I feel I should return some of the wisdom bestowed upon me, and therefore I will remain here trying to help others the best I can.<p>[ January 04, 2002: Message edited by: Torizo ]</p>

Torizo,
I am glad that W's OM LB'ed ... heh heh heh, try to hand cuff her (posessive). You could only hand couff your W w/ love & care [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . Yes, I would think of you differently if you don't do some posting to help others [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . There so many of them (BS/WS) and so little of us who could spend time. Recovery update will be nice too. Jumping ahead ... let your W to post to help WS around here ... there even fewer of them.<p>Good luck on your job search too.

Thanks Rh, At this point, It still(has it ever changed) is about waiting, but at least it is a good waiting now. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I couldn't not post to help others, You all have shown me support, now to return that.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I am glad that W's OM LB'ed ... heh heh heh, try to hand cuff her (posessive). You could only hand couff your W w/ love & care . <hr></blockquote><p>I guess love IS the key to everthing after all...<p>After a while, when we get things "normal" I will probably show her my postings and encourage her to post as well.But that is in the future.<p>BTW - The job that I interveiwed for the hours are 8:45am-7:45pm M-T, 8:45am-4:00pm F, & 8:45am 12:00pm On Sat. My drawback to that is: Should I leave my wife alone that much? I mean it will be hard to get that 15hrs of undivided attention in. Or should I consider a job with less hours? I have til' monday to let them know, and I don't know what to do.

Hi Torizo,<p>I am so happy for you! You have really been working hard to save your marriage. W is lucky to have you. I think letting her read your posts later will help her to see how devoted you have been. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>keep us informed. I will always value your input! About the job is there any possibility of negotiating hours??<p>
Perdu<p>Perdu

Hey, P how's things with you?<p>Yeah it's been hard, But the work is starting to pay off finally.<p>BTW did you know my post is 115pgs. in MS word? Thats amazing.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> About the job is there any possibility of negotiating hours??
<hr></blockquote><p>Thats what I want, but there is no room for negotiation, the hours are as they have them. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]
And I don't feel it is a "good" thing to be awy fro home that much, not in our current state of affairs, No pun intended. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>What is a person to do?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Torizo:
<strong>BTW - The job that I interveiwed for the hours are 8:45am-7:45pm M-T, 8:45am-4:00pm F, & 8:45am 12:00pm On Sat. My drawback to that is: Should I leave my wife alone that much? I mean it will be hard to get that 15hrs of undivided attention in. Or should I consider a job with less hours? I have til' monday to let them know, and I don't know what to do.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>First thing first ..., did you get accepted ?. you have to survive and eat. W/ some extra $$$ you could afford going out w/ her more often like a date to se LoTR. 15 hours could be done w/ your hours and you have no kid. You could talk with W before accepting the job and put together a POJA to find 15 hours MINIMUM ! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] .

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> First thing first ..., did you get accepted ?. <hr></blockquote> If I decide to take it, I have til monday to make MY decision.<p>I suppose the 15hrs Could be met, But my hangup is: Now just beginning to "recover" our M, if I am away all the time, how can I be certain A)W isn't having contact with OM? B)with out me there more often, I may fail to meet ENs and then we could be right back where we started.<p>This job is not the ONLY job I have a choice on, but it does pay the most, however he can survive on a lot less than this job pays.<p>I think I'm just scared of her contacting OM because I'm not there for companionship.

Torizo,
Good work ... talk w/ W and start learning on two way communication. And also delay when you start the new job so that you could have time away together with her.<p>There is a will there is a way. You will never be sure but you could limit the possibilties. That is why you start the recovery w/ 4 rules and POJA.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>
This job is not the ONLY job I have a choice on, but it does pay the most, however he can survive on a lot less than this job pays.<p>I think I'm just scared of her contacting OM because I'm not there for companionship.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Talk to her and see what she has to say, decision is hers too. When does she come home ?.

Yeah I have to still talk to her about all of the job, and my concerrns as well.<p>She is talking about coming home the end of next week, OM needs somewhere to go first.<p>OMs friends in NY have all his stuff, He no longer has apt in NY, and he can't stay @ Friends house of W, So he either goes back to NY and lives with a friend, or he gets apt here.<p>So, you see my concerns about no contact, it could be a temptation to her, and that does not leave "us" in a good situation.<p>We will see what she says about job, and I'll decide based on that, I think.