<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Yes, if WS is not "confused" they will do it. <hr></blockquote><p>The Question is, is she confused, or is it guilt getting in the way?<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> At least the process of either filing separation or Dv. <hr></blockquote> <p>If she files it will be Dv, I don't think she would just stop at Sep.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> we will never know until 5 more weeks and the $ is not relevant, the cost is only filing since she assumed that you are not contesting her (no need for lawyer). <hr></blockquote><p>5 more long weeks... Filing in her county is $158.00 (She doesn't have it.) No lawyer, I will not contest it, if it's what she wants, and it makes her "happy", the I'll do it. (I promised to make her happy, from the first day we met, whatever it takes, and I still hold myself to that promise, even though the outcome looks bleak).<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Hang in there, she will call you. Not even one week after plan B letter (01/07-01/13), she tried contacting you already.<hr></blockquote><p>Eventually I know she will,(She is extremely emotional)which is good (Helps me) and bad (Helps A) and I think it's the reason she's "confused". She got her self stuck in a catch 22 situation, Love me Love him, Don't want to hurt H don't want to hurt OM. It is a vicious circle. and she is the only one who can stop it. (And that brings us right back to the beginning with her being "confused") [That is OUR current problem now]<p>I KNOW I want to work on our M, But she doesn't KNOW what she wants, so I have been forced to do things for myself, and kind of put fixing M on the "back burner", but in doing that I also fear W and OM wil become "closer" instead of her being "pushed" towards me. And unfortunately, there is no way to guarantee her return. I wish there was something I could say or do to let/make her "see" the "changes" in me.<p>Ok, now I'm rambling. I'm sorry.<p>If (big if right now) she calls, what should I say?<p>[ January 14, 2002: Message edited by: Torizo ]</p>

Redhat, Orchid, all of you, Thank you so much. Thank you for the support.<p>My W called, Asked how I was, asked about jobs ect. and we talked for a few. She asked about our bankruptcy, and what were going to do with it. I plainly and clamly explained to her if We DV she could no longer be on it, and she would have to file her own Bankruptcy, she said " she didn't want that" [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] and It took a minute for that to register in my brain, so I also explained to her I would pay for Dv but I would not file, nor would I try and stop her from filing. (and then it hit me) I asked if she was happy there (Obvious OM was nearby) and she said "NO". (I'm sorry she's not happy) [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>She said she would call again in a few days. I told her I love her, and we said goodbye.<p>And if that's not enough... My day gets stranger and stranger. I was reading a poste earlier, from whothehellisshe in GqII, and a reply I sent to Who was : <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> That is truly inspiring. It brought a tear to my eye reading it. Maybe that is what I need to do in my situation. My only problem, up til my Ws affair, I have not been to church in many years, I have never prayed, though I do believe in a higher power than myself. Now, I pray on a almost daily basis. It just seems like the prayers go unanswered, (Maybe I need to be smacked in the head with a 2x4 or something) I just can't see it.<p>Your post, along with the great amounts of help here @ MBs, keeps me going and praying.<p>Thank you and God Bless.<hr></blockquote><p>And then I was surfing the web and ran across a online "Church" if you will, and they take "prayer Requests". So I wrote : <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Please help me pray for my wife. She has been living with her lover now for 7 long weeks, I pray to God, that he may show her the sin she is committing, and for help in returning her to our state of marriage. I do want to work on it, and believe it can be saved. But not while she is living with her lover, she needs to be in our home so we CAN work it out.

in 5 weeks, she will be able to file for Divorce, (She moved out of county and has to wait) though she is not sure if that is what she wants.

I only want to honor our wedding vows, and it says for better or for worse, he have had better, and there is still worse than this. I love her and I cherish her, I want our marriage to work, but I need her with me and willing to work on it.

And only by the grace of God is that possible.

Thank you for listening, and thank you for your time.

God Bless...<hr></blockquote><p>My Reply from the Rev. was : <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> My prayers are with your wife and you. May the Lord touch her heart and show her the mistake that she is making and bring her back into this marriage that the Lord has put together and bring it together centered on Him. May He give you strength and guidience during this time and God bless you both!

All in Jesus name,
Crystle <hr></blockquote><p>And at the time, I finished replying to the reply, the phone rang and it was my W.<p>There is a God, and I got my 2x4 in the head. I have seen the light, and with time anything is possible.(Time and God) [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] (though looking back at my post, A month ago I would have never thought it)<p>You all are wonderful people, I thank you from my very soul.<p>Any Comments on this? (I don't know what else to say...)<p>P.s. I asked W to do me a favor, and take a look at MB, specifically the Boards, She said to send her a link. I don't know if she'll read, but she might.(I hope) [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Back to plan A. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ January 14, 2002: Message edited by: Torizo ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Torizo:
<strong>
If (big if right now) she calls, what should I say?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hey, decide if you want to be in plan A or sick to plan B. Plan A'ng will be just follow the converstation and do not clingy, just normal. Plan B will not allow you to pick up the phone, let VM picks it up.

The login thing is driving me CRAZY!!!!!<p>Anyways Redhat, I guess its back to plan A. On account of I spoke to W today.<p>BTW - Did you read the really long post above? Just curious what you think.<p>This time I'm gonna plan A my @$$ off. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] I'm going to get it "right" yet.lol.
(I gave up on plan A too early, I should have more faith in myself and W, then to just "give up")Right???<p>[ January 14, 2002: Message edited by: Torizo ]</p>

Torizo,
BTW - Did you read the really long post above? Just curious what you think.<p>I read it an I will reply later tonight, I have to go to skating rink for my 2 D practice.<p>I am gald that you decide to plan A'ng. Give it time and buckle up for the 'coaster ride and this time let her pull the break. ok ?. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Catch you later.

Seatbelt - check
Holding on - check
Praying to God - check<p>Ok let's go...<p>Have fun with 2ds, See ya later.<p>Grasping Plan A Firmly now. Holding on tight.

Hi T,<p>You have been busy, I see. Now you have to be MB smart. Ok? <p>1. Don't enable.....the I'll pay for the D thing?
Bad Bad Bad. Stop volunteering your hard
earned money. <p>2. Now you know she is not real happy. Ok, work
with that. Show her that you can let her be
happy with you (not make her happy). Remember
the WS is a bit sensitive right now.

Waffle time happens at this stage quite
easily. Don't get your hopes up too high. Take
it slow. <p>3. Keep working on you and your options. Let her
come to you. Don't show your over
anxiousness. For some insane reason, the WS
don't appreciate it. <p>You have been given your assignment..... [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Take Care,
L.

Hiya O,<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Now you have to be MB smart. Ok?
<hr></blockquote><p>Thats why I'm here and have bought countless books isn't it? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Don't enable.....the I'll pay for the D thing?
Bad Bad Bad. Stop volunteering your hard
earned money.
<hr></blockquote><p>I'll stop offering, only reason I was offering now, Tax return time. Not hard earned $$$, money back from Gov. lol.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Now you know she is not real happy. Ok, work
with that. Show her that you can let her be
happy with you (not make her happy). Remember
the WS is a bit sensitive right now. <hr></blockquote><p>How can I show her that? over the phone is kind of hard. But I will try. I do know to follow MB Teachings, no LBs. Any other advice? (so I'm not "pushing" her.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Waffle time happens at this stage quite
easily. Don't get your hopes up too high. Take
it slow. <hr></blockquote><p>No hopes at this time, still to soon. Just "better" news right now, at least she acknowledges I'm alive now. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] and she IS speaking to me, as well as telling me how she feels. (Very big steps on her part). One day at a time.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Keep working on you and your options. Let her
come to you. Don't show your over
anxiousness. For some insane reason, the WS
don't appreciate it. <hr></blockquote><p>Still about me... Need a job right this moment, Thats the first priority. She will have to come to me, as I will not call her, nor will I drive down to where she is unless she asks.<p>I just don't want to "push" her, Casual conversation when she calls.(Not very long calls, OM is still "up her @$$ when she gets on phone with me). Afraid of losing her? Over protective? Jealous? I don't know. All I know is she said she wasn't happy there, and don't know what to do.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> You have been given your assignment..... <hr></blockquote><p>I feel like James Bond now. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

I am back ... I read your long post and we are probably post at the same time ... I did not see your posting when I set up my reply. Another timely moment ?. I do not know but God has a very strange way. Take it one day at the time. Time is on your side actually. OM is afraid of loosing WS, another LB isn't it. You just sit back and see them scrambling. Get busy w/ your job search, take a break from her. Hope there is a news from your interview.
BTW, is one of your wife EN's financial ?, just curious since it might be a pluses to get a steady job and better income. I wonder how she is getting by w/o job and for how long.

Hi Redhat,<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I do not know but God has a very strange way. <hr></blockquote><p>Strange as it may be, it all works out in the end, even if we don't see "the big picture" right away.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Take it one day at the time. <hr></blockquote><p>That is all anyone can do.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Time is on your side actually. OM is afraid of loosing WS, another LB isn't it. You just sit back and see them scrambling. <hr></blockquote><p>Definate LB.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> BTW, is one of your wife EN's financial ?, just curious since it might be a pluses to get a steady job and better income. <hr></blockquote><p>According to her ENQ, Financial was I think 5 or 6 on the list. Regardless, I am trying to make more $$$ than last job, even if it's not one of her ENs. (Although I can't see how it wouldn't be an EN of hers, in the past year she worked 4 months, as I made enough to pay our bills so she didn't have to work much. If nothing else, a good paying job meets my EN of Financial. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I wonder how she is getting by w/o job and for how long. <hr></blockquote><p>Only she can answer that. ( I can only say, she is "getting by" on minimal $$$ right now.) From what I can assume.<p>But this is definately a positive thing, at least she told me how she feels, which is more than she has said in the past.<p>One day at a time. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

No new info on W, Currently drafting an Idea for "conditions" to W coming home(if indeed she intends to). Basing it on MB Maritial agreement and four rules, anything else I can "throw in" ?<p>Job Update: Interview today @ 3:00pm Hope it goes well.wish me luck. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>How is everyone else doing?

Torizo,
My 2D start resenting my WW, WW LB'ed big time. I am just collecting info. and not interfering. I need it for child custody battle down the road. FIL&BIL start to worry that I will "give up", they will come on mid Feb. I put the property on sale, I am tired being handyman and later 50% of it goes to WW that she will blow it off w/ OM. I will move out of town, cross the bay or further south, w/ or w/o my WW. I have a time frame in mind that I would like to resolve this and end this pain before end of the year. It is not my loss, it is my 2 D and WW's.<p>Good luck on your job interview, I pray for you so that at least you will solve one important issue out of the way.<p>Catch you later.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> My 2D start resenting my WW, WW LB'ed big time. I am just collecting info. and not interfering. I need it for child custody battle down the road. <hr></blockquote><p>Sorry to hear this. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> put the property on sale, I am tired being handyman and later 50% of it goes to WW that she will blow it off w/ OM. <hr></blockquote><p>I hope you at least get a good price,I know how it is to sell things, and move on.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I will move out of town, cross the bay or further south, w/ or w/o my WW. <hr></blockquote><p>I don't really know what to say, except may God be with you and help you through this.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> It is not my loss, it is my 2 D and WW's. <hr></blockquote><p>True, it will be Ws loss, I am sad that it also hurts your 2 D, as it is such a shame that they have to go through this. But at least they have a good Father. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Good luck on your job interview, I pray for you so that at least you will solve one important issue out of the way. <hr></blockquote><p>I went to interview, essentiall the position is Asst. Mgr. of a cleaning company. I will find out by Tuesday at the latest if I have it or not.I REALLY hope I get it.<p>I am sorry that you and 2 D have to endure the pain that has been "thrown" upon you, You are a good man, and deserve better. Someone once said, "it will get better in time", I do believe that. I wish you luck in whatever happens with you. God bless.

W update: I talked to W today(just got off phone with her) I asked her how she was ect. ect. She said ok, she was doing dishes. and she started crying, I asked her if she was ok, she said she missed me (in a whisper). I told her I miss her too. I told her about my recent interview, and asked her what was "new"? Apparently they moved OM's "stuff" here from NY last week. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] and I asked W if OM found a job yet, she said no, he's out looking right now. and she said she has been thinking of coming home for two weeks now, but she doesn't know what to do about OM. I told her either he can stay at your friends house, or he can get a U-haul and go back to NY, I don't care which personally. Anyways, W told me she still loves me, and has never stopped loving me, she just got "lost" and cant find her "way" back home, which brings me to my next point, Her friend (the one who's house W and OM are at) thinks my W just feels "guilty" and thats why she wants to come home, in her words, "he(me) didn't make you(W) happy when you were there, what makes you think he(me) will make you happy now?" W said she thinks she would be happy just to be home again. and then OM came home, (controlling? jealous?) and W had to go, I told her I love her, and she said I know, me too(whispered). she said she would try to call me back later.<p>So in short, she knows she loves me, she knows she wants to come home, she knows she wants to make M work, but she feels "trapped" by OM. (My POV anyways) Thoughts?<p>At least I know I'm still loved.....<p>I'm half tempted to just go and pick up W and smack OM with a 2x4, and say "she's coming with me". (A fantasy I know, But just to see the look on his face).<p>What do you all make of this?<p>[ January 20, 2002: Message edited by: Torizo ]</p>

*<p>[ January 21, 2002: Message edited by: Orchid ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I think she is with some wacko people who are also in the fog. Or maybe see her as a good thing they don't want to lose. I mean really clean up lady for free? So as long as they can keep her there for cheap why not take pock shots at your character? More fogese. <hr></blockquote> <p>The fog, oh the fog.... Thats right, cheap help (must keep her here in the mothership as long as possible, even if she is not happy).<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Maybe those friends can have the OM do your W's work. Maybe they will keep him as their live in maid and he won't have to find a job. Then your W won't feel guilty and she can come home. <hr></blockquote><p>LOL, Thats great and all, But I want OM to go back from whence he came. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Ahhhh but it is not as simple as all that ya know!. <hr></blockquote><p>It is NEVER simple, at least not on this side of the fence. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>
It does make me sad to think, W is unhappy, (even after the pain she caused me. It all makes sense now. sort of.) It is a test, and I will pass this test. Through God's help, and sheer human resolve, I will make it. I have gone too far(in my mind) to give up now. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>ok, so now what? (yes I'm impatient [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] )<p>[ January 20, 2002: Message edited by: Torizo ]</p>

T,<p>It sounds like the fog is lifting and she does want to come home. If I where you, and my wife said to me that she missed me and wanted to come home, I would tell her "I'll be right over!" If she says no, she can't... I would tell her that all she has to do is watch for your car, and jump in when you drive up, don't worry about the OM, her belongings, none of that matters, what matters is that she is home safe with you.
This will show her that you are her knight in shining armor ready and willing to rescue her.
It couldn't hurt, you arn't LB'ing and you never know, she might just be waiting for you to do this. Don't be afraid, she belongs with you.<p>(just my honest opinion)<p>SH

SH, not a half bad idea. I just called her, shes talking to friend of OM in NY, she said she'd call me back (her voice was urgent) Didn't want to LB so I said ok.<p>[ January 20, 2002: Message edited by: Torizo ]</p>

<p>[ January 21, 2002: Message edited by: stillhurts ]</p>

<p>[ January 20, 2002: Message edited by: Torizo ]</p>