I'm really not sure were to begin. I know there isn't a manual on whats right and wrong on how to deal with the news I was givin 12 days ago. I found out that my wife of twelve years was having a affair but it all happened in the last six months and it was with three different men. two of the men were as a direct result of trying to get back at the third who she was involved with and he tried to break it off. they were just drunken flings to make the om jealous. ws denied the two flings until four days ago, but finally came clean on all of them. I didnt know what to do. I made some promises in tring to get her to confes these things. one of the promises I made was it could be kept between us, and that we could work it out on our own. But realizing the severity of what had happened I broke my promis and went to counsel with my church about what to do. This really made my wife mad because I dont really go to church and she does and the people that are involved also attend this church. My wife is very concerned on how people are going to think of her. My wife has stopped going to church for about seven months, this started six months ago. I dont want anyone to think she has been wearing two masks for the past six months. Yes she has been wearing two masks to me but publicly she appeared the same person. I originally found out about the om in october by a letter she wrote him and didnt delete it off the computer. when I confrounted her she swore to me that they were getting close but had only kissed on two occations. The om when I confrounted him had the same response. So I believed them and have been trying to be abetter husband sense then. But now that the truth has been revieled to me by her, is that even in october it already been going on sense June. They lied! go figure right? I trusted my wife to be with these people because all three were friends of mine. In fact one of the om was the best man in my wedding. My wife is the most beautiful woman in the world and we have three children. 11,6 and 4. I love her, I love her, I love her. But there has been so many lies. Lie after lie. I have been trying to talk about it. My wife says there are feelings for the other man. None for the other two flings. again she says they were just flings and that I have nothing to worry about with them. I have such a battle going on in my body right now, between my brain, that is telling me to get out of here. My heart ,its telling me how much I love her and that this can be fixed. I know this early on in the phases of healing. I have not been a very good husband, I am not denying this but the things i've done don't justify blatant lying and deciet o ya and not to mention ADULTRY with three men. Like I said I have not been a very good husband let a lone a man. I guess the place to start is with me. I am a reactor. I react to situations that I am put into. I rarely instagate a confrontation. I would rather just keep my mouth shut and hope that it goes away. My wife on the other hand is a button pusher. Always has been. I will admit I have a bad temper and have slapped my wife a coulpe of times. But I just couldnt get away. I know its no excuse, It happened but I have never just beat on her or anything like that.I am currently trying to get help for this problem. Yes its because I have opened my eyes to alot of things. I never realized just how much she means to me. I dont know if it was god or what that brought me here to this web sight but I need help. She says she has feelings for this om. But wants to try and work it out with me, but in the same sentence she says i'm being to clingie. I want to show her how much I love her. Maybe to late? NO WAY! I love her and my family to much. Some one help please? I asked her tonight that if it was gonna be fixed she needed closure. I asked her to call or write the om and tell him it was over and that we were gonna try and fix this and she said no way. I have confronted all three om. including one of the flings, he was the best man in my wedding. I went to his wife. Sorry about his luck. He denies it, but that is to bad. Let them sort it out. After I have read alot of the postings here I have seen alot about these "plan a's" and Plan b's". Im not sure what they are and how to get started. As well as the abriviations that are used so plese forgive me for not using them Im sure I'll catch on soon. But the main thing is i'm not prepaired to give up. I married her till death do we part. That wasn't just a vow to her, it was made before god. Although i'm not very religous I still believe.

Welcome to MB. Follow the link below and learn more about MB. Good first step that you want to save M, we believe the same thing. Learn as fast as you can about EN, Plan A & LB. For your daily life, get busy and do not have idle time. STOP TALKING TO HER ABOUT A UNLESS SHE STARTS IT. STOP PUSHING OR TRY TO FIX HER. Learn more and ask Q here or vent in here. You start in the good track to list the issue(s) that your W has with you. Those are the basis for your plan A. Hang in there.

Your wife telling you that you have nothing to worry about regarding two of the men.???tell her that you are not worried about the other men you are worried about yourself. she is very shallow to s---w two other men to make some lover jealous and then tell you that. your vow to never break up the marriage? let me remind you that she was the one to leave the marriage when she first became an adultress. If you never sleep with her again, and divorce it is on her. she has already left. you will not be breaking your vow. those vows are taken against an assumption of fidelity. If you are religious check the bible regarding putting ones wife away. Of course, I realize one can support almost anything with the bible ,but just remember she is the one who has already left the marriage. above all dont be the one to move out insist she move. she needs a dose of reality. I know you love her. loving someone doesn't mean you have to stay married to them. Its quite common for spouses to realize that they will always love their spouse , but also, realize that they can no longer accept their behavior, or live with them. she will not stop contact with other man? then you must not let her have contact with you. this will help you to become stronger and once that happens you will be in control. be strong

joell,
You have been in this forum much longer than I do, what bring you here ?. I could not see your profile but yet you put your opinion out here and there. How far are you with your M ? What is your experience w/ your no contact that you advice ?. Related to DixieChic ?.

I am very sorry for your pain. A couple of observations. First, you need to get into counseling immediately. More importantly you need to undergo anger management. There is absolutely no excuse to ever use violence and hit your wife period. You must need to deal with this problem.<p>Now the problem with your wife. She has been with
3 different men in the past 6 months. She clearly
has strong feelings for the OM by having sex with 2 other men to make the OM jealous. She tells you
no way she will tell the OM that she will have
no contact with him. I would suggest strongly
that you and your wife should be tested before you even contemplate being intimate with her.
At this point it does not look good. A married woman willing to have sex with 2 other men (one being your best man) in order to just make her OM jealous indicates that your wife has major problems with herself and her marriage. Her comment that you should not be concerned with the 2 other men because they were flings is ridiculous. I may be wrong but I would conclude that your wife is in love with her main OM and has lost total respect for you and the marriage.<p>I hope you get therapy immediately and get tested.
I wish you luck but you need to consider your options that your wife has given up on your marriage. Try to get her into marriage counseling but continued sex with other men should have you seeking an attorney for protection of your children and yourself. I wish you luck.

H2WU,
I know exactly how you feel, I was in your shoes nearly 2 years ago in shock after 15 years of marraige finding out the same thing you heard 12 days ago. But by the grace of God my marraige is better now than it ever was before! I know this seems hard to belive but I just want you to know that there is hope and Redhat is correct, read and learn as fast as you can and as hard as it will be, try not to talk about the affair untill she is truly committed to saving the marraige. With the help of counseling you will learn more than you need to know in due time. She is in what we call "the fog" right now as long as the other man (OM) is in the picture. You must do all you can to make her feel safe and comfortable with you. If all she experiances when she is around you is pain, anger, guilt, sorrow..... her inner defence system so to speak will tell her to stay away from you to avoid the pain. This is what we call love busting, don't do it. It will be so hard but you are going to have to be the strong one here and it is going to take all the strength you have if you want to save your family.
You say that you are not very religious. Neither was I but I found great peace and healing from God and I see now that God has ways of bringing good out of bad things. Matthew 11:28-30 Come to me all you that are weary and are carring heavy burdens and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me; for I am gental and humble in heart and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.<p>There is a reason you are here and you will find great help here. Come here to ask questions, vent, learn.... <p>Remember there is hope, I'm praying for you right now...<p>SH

Hello again,
I would first like to thank you all for the responses on my posting. The advise diven by all of you was very nice and it helps alot. Although does not help with the pain much. I have tried to take all of your advice and have sence Christmas eve, that is stop talkinging about it with WS and wait for WS to bring up the A'(s). And sure enough she did last night. The only thing I have been doing is tring to show her my love and let her know I'm here for her. I'm affraid she doesn't know how to take it though. Things are very confusing here. My WS last night said to me "lets have a glass of wine while we wrap the kids gifts" I said ok, but in no mood to add alchol to my situation though. You must know WS has never been a drinker until six months ago. In fact six months ago was the first time she had ever tasted alchohol. So needless to say after she had 5 large glasses of wine she was feeling more than ready to talk. I didn't even ask a single question. Answers started pouring out about as fast as the wine was disappearing. It was nice to hear alot of things she had to say. But as soon as I started asking her to calm down, as I was affraid of the kids waking up. She began to change real fast saying very hurtful and even cruel things. Details of the affair and this and that about OM. I had to physically get up from the table and leave for a short while.<p>After a while I returned to WS calming down. She was very apologetic, even to the point of wanting relations. I chose not to follow through with the relations part, but we did end up talking late into the night. <p>One of things I am noticing is WS trying to get me to change my appearience, Loose weight, why dont you wear your ear ring anymore, buy some new cloths and get into style. Things like this that make me think she is trying to find him in me!!!<p>I on the other hand am trying to change on the inside. Seems like that doesn't matter to her.<p>So today, Christmas Day I am home all alone. WS family knows about all of this. I refuse to go and take part in a what is saposed to be a HAPPY DAY with them. MIL & FIL have always condoned behavior that suits there situation at the time no matter if its right or wrong. I always joke and say they go by the law, if it is us its ok. But if the tables were turned it would be " what kind of person would do that to someone" Inlaws both have had multiple affairs, SIL has had two affairs. Just to put it in a nut shell they are an extreemly disfunctional family. So this is compounding my problem even more.<p>On another note I have a old and beat up computer and I have tried to download the EN & LB Questioneer and I am not able to open it up. Can any one help?
Thanks again and Merry Christmas

Hard2wakeup,
Hang in there man you're doing good. As far as the computer question, can't help ya. Mabey you can use a friends computer to print the forms. I do recall though that one of the questions on emotional needs had to do with physical apperance and my wife had a problem with how I looked too. Don't take it as low blow but instead as constructive critisisam. Pay attention to how you look just like you did years ago when you were courting her. We men tend to neglect little things that matter to a woman.
Have you started reading any books yet? Surviving an Affair by Harley is a good start. She needs to see that you are working to save this marraige and she needs to know that you can still be the man she fell in love with when you first married.
You have alot of work ahead of you, get busy.
I know this hurts, man I've been there but hear this, there is hope!!! You are going to be on the roller coaster ride of your life and many times you are going to want to jump off. Don't do it. Hang on and be patiant. This could take a long time, it did for me but the end result in my case was a complete recovery and our marraige is better now than it ever was. Best of all we are still a family, HAPPY!!!
Continue to show love and patiance. Don't smother her. Try your best not to LB, Have you read about "Love Banks"? If not do so because your account in her love bank is most likely over drawn and you need to make deposits, and yes looking good for her is just one way to make deposets because it is one of her needs.
One last bit of advise I can give you is to pray. There is power in prayer and you will be amazed at what prayer can do. When we were in the deepest darkest days in early recovery I started to pray with my WS (wayword spouse) asking the Lord to heal our broken marraige and it did make a big differance when we began to pray together. <p>You said that you were seeking help for your anger problem, are you following through? You need counseling don't wait.<p>Hang in there my friend and if you start to crash and need to vent, come here and let it all out. Don't use her to unload.<p>God bless, SH

Stillhurts,
Thanks for writing me again. It means alot to me for someone to show a intrest in whats happining here. As for your question about still seeking help for my anger problem, yes I am. As a matter of fact I spoke with one of the ministers at my church yesterday and we are meeting Thursday the 4th of Jan. He is a counsler as well as a minister. As far as things are here at home?As soon as I think progress is being made WS goes and does somthing silly again. It does not surprise me though. W seems to be receptive to my wanting to change and save our marriage. She is still hiding so much though. For instance, yesterday I went to pick the kids up after work, when I got home she had dinner ready. I grabbed the telephone to see who called during the day, and to see whos number had been called. Yes checking up on W. But guess who's # that had been dialed last on my phone? Yeh, OM office number. So I confronted her and she said she did not call him, she put it into the phone just to aggravate me because of how I am always checking up on her. I dont buy it. I told W I can not deel with any more hurt. Two days ago W was going to go to the tanning spa, said she would return in a half hour. One hour and fourty minutes later I drove to the tanning spa to find her just walking out.It does not take that long to tan. I questioned her and her response was I went to walmart first, then came to tan. I have told W that if she says she is doing somthing and plans change to let me know. I have a cell phone she can get a hold of me anytime. W tells me I need to trust her and that she does love me and she is commited on saving our marriage, and that she does not want the OM. I must say after reading many of these other posts here, The amount of spouses returning to the OP even after they have been caught and how much all these people have in comman with the lies and such it makes me real nervous that she will or has done the same thing.

I have to tell you that the comments that your wife is making to you is simply ridiculous. Her comment that you need to trust her is ludicrous.
In the past six months she had sex with three different men and she tells you that you need to trust her? Excuse me but she needs to prove to you that she is trustworthy. Catching the OM office number on your redial and telling you she did that just to catch you shows that she is still lying to you. A woman that is willing to have sex with two
other men (including your best friend) to make the OM jealous is not simply going to walk away and stop thinking about him.
I think you are in for a very long road ahead of you. I would be greatly surprised if she did not try to resume the affair. Have you both been tested yet? I know this sounds harsh but unfortunately this is reality. I wish you luck.

Bryanp,
Thank you for the insight. I have been reading many posts here and have noticed that you have responded to many,many people in very much the same position that I am in. Actually I am happy that you have shown an intrest to follow up on my particular problem. Right now is a very stressful time in both my W and my life. As for being tested, not yet but I am going to the health dept. on wed. She says there is no need though, and that with out exception safe sex was practiced. What a thing to hear from a wife huh? I know what you are saying about W lying. It seems really far fetched that W would just dial in a number to get me going. W tells me that the OM is away for the holidays visiting his parents, and that he isn't going to be back in the office until the second of Jan. But what kind of games could she be playing, or what could she accomplish by getting me to think that somthing is still going on? Like I said W has told me repeatadly that she wants our marriage to work. And that now that I know about the A, if she wanted to see him or make more of there relationship she would simply leave me and pursue it. Basicly what W is saying is simply by her staying should be proof enough that she wants me and not the OM. But my response is " why won't you end it with him" put some sort of clouser to this situation. By the way Bryanp on a lighter note ( I don't care if people Know me) my first name is Bryan and last In. is P (Bryanp) as well. A little weird huh? Thanks for listening.<p>Bryan

Hard,
I am not at home and can't give you a full reply right now, I will try to get to a computer later. All I can say right now is you need to work on a plan A. Read up on it and start applying it now. In a nutshell, plan A is about you and while you are in plan A, you must not lovebust (LB) when you confront your wife about her wearabouts and so on you are LB'ing all this does is push her away. I know its hard. Very hard. But I must say she is sounding just like my ws when her A was uncoverd. Hopfuly others will pop in and give you good advise. The bottom line is you must do all you can to make her feel good to be around you not angry by questioning her whereabouts.
I'll try to come back later....<p>SH

What an interesting similarity with our names.
I am glad that you are being tested. It seems so
strange that the WS expects us to believe everything they had said about sex as if they are honorable and their word means something. You are wise to be tested.
You make an excellent point that must end all contact and communications with the OM. Her comment that she is staying with you and therefore does not need to end contact is again ridiculous.
All this means is that at the present time she does not wish to change her financial or marital status. I believe that you judge people by their
actions and not their words. Your wife seems to show little remorse and is refusing to take action
to make you feel better by cutting off contact with the OM. She continues to discount and disrespect your feelings.<p>I have a question for you. What do you think her attitude would be if you fell in love with another woman and had sex with her for the past few months and during this time you had additional
sex with two other women (one of which was her best friend) just to make the OW jealous. You then proceed to tell her she should not be bothered by the sex with the other two women because they were just flings. You also tell her all of the time with all of the three women you always practiced safe sex so your wife does not have to worry about being tested. In addition, you tell your wife you have no intention of cutting off contact with the other woman and besides you have decided to work on the marriage for the time being and that should be enough. How do you think your wife would feel?
I am afraid unless she changes her attitude you will be in for a world of pain.<p>On another front there is something I have read in other messages that really burns me. It is when I read like in your case where the wife has sex with the husband's best friend. These men are not friends. A friend would absolutely never do such a things. How can these men claim to be friends and do such a thing? The answer must be that they were never really a friend and they have no honor. Do you agree or disagree?
I wish you luck but please protect yourself by ignoring the words but focusing on the actions of your WS.

Hey all,
My wife and I are talking and I have let her read the posts I have made. She would like to add a few things here. Here she is<p>You do not know me....therefore you should not pass judgement on me.... as far as having sex with two other men to make the other man jelous thats his opinoin... they were terrible mistakes that I cannot take back in which alcohol played a huge role in ....I have not dissagreed about having contact with him....I havent!! I don't care if you believe me or not....You dont know the whole story, Bryan just cant handle he has no control over me anymore!!!!!!!! truth of the matter is years of emotional and physical abuse got old.... desired affection didnt feel it from him found it else where!!!! ever been in my shoes I THINK NOT!!!!!!<p>Sorry about that, she typed that and walked out. I think we've just hit a new low.W will not and refuses to at this time end this with OM. she says I have already done that for her. I can't do that. I tried that in october. Look where we are now! I am trying to take all of your advise as I can. Tonight I even went out and bought Dr. Harleys " Love Busters" and tried to buy "surviving an affair" as well as " his needs her needs" but they were sold out so I orderd them. I also bought a book called anger control. Its a workbook on dealing with and recognizing anger before it springs up. At times like this I feel the brain is starting to win this battle. This scares me.I do not want my feelings to change. As far as this control thing W is speeking of, Yes I have been forced to be a controling husband. She has never been a person to excercise self control. Over money, our kids and just about anthing you could imagine. But I do not believe this is a control thing. Its all about taking the situation at hand and doing what ever it takes to fix it.<p>Come on everybody help Please. I thought we were making progress. It seems as long as I do not speek of this things seem to go in the right direction. But when we talk (with no LB) it seems to fall apart again. This can not be just swept under the perverbial "rug". <p>One other question
I have alot of unanswered questions in my head. Do I need them answered.
Like Details of these affairs?
"when"
"how"
Ect.
These things are gonna kill me if I dont know?
W says they are hers and she wont let go of them.<p>Bryanp
Yes, a whole hearted yes I agree. In the past before I was married I wouldn't even date a buddies X-girlfriend. Friends are very hard to come by. Espically real ones.
As far as your other question
If my W was in my shoes?
She wont even go there. She has always been a real jelous wife and girl friend.
I know this has been a long post so I will end it now. Pleeezzzzzeee don't leave me hangin here. I need you guys even more now then ever.

Hi Bryan and Bryan's wife,<p>I have been here for over two years, and I have been through the wringer, as both a WS and BS. I know how you BOTH feel.<p>Bryan,<p>I truly understand your pain and frustration. My ex-H cheated with AT LEAST five women during our 20 year marriage. I certainly do not want to minimize your pain in what I say, but I will be blunt. <p>You say things go better when you don't discuss the affair/s. THEN DON'T DISCUSS THEM! Have you read carefully about Plan A? You aren't SUPPOSE to discuss the affair AT ALL. Plan A is about making yourself the best man you can be and making your marriage a safe place for your spouse to RETURN.<p>Also, I believe in total honesty -- however, your wife is not ready to be totally honest with you. She mentions abuse. What's that about? If you have physically abused her, she needs to GET SAFE IMMEDIATELY. Yes, there is still hope for your marriage, but not until you get help. If the abuse has been emotional or verbal, it is still devistating, and she still needs to protect herself. Again, you will need to seek help before she can feel safe emotionally to open up to you.<p>NONE OF THIS IS A REASON FOR AN AFFAIR, BUT IT IS A REASON TO LEAVE A MARRIAGE. <p>It's great that you are here, but many BS's do not share the concepts with their WS's because they (the WS) feel they are being manipulated. But your W does now know, so show her a PERFECT Plan A, okay??<p>Bryan's Wife, <p>I am very concerned with the abuse issue, and want to address that first. If you would be willing, I *would* like to discuss it. I HAVE been there!<p>I have also been THERE as a spouse who strayed. I had an affair 18 years into a very damaged marriage... and I know the pain and confusion of reaching out to the wrong person.<p>No pressure, but if you'd like to talk, I'm here.<p>BOTH OF YOU,<p>Your marriage can be saved -- if you want it to be. Do you? <p>It's going to take work from both of you. Some people around here believe that one can save the marriage alone -- frankly, I don't. I think it takes both of you. And, in fairness, you should know that my first marriage, the one that brought me here (to MB) did not work out. <p>Anyway, I wish you both peace as we enter a new year... and a renewed marriage.<p>[ December 29, 2001: Message edited by: new_beginning ]</p>

HARD2WAKEUP,
I am so sorry this thing happens. Usually I lurk to other people post and if they engage me I will try to help and I try to stay away from certain poster that will not help your situation such as Joell & BrianP (not in line w/ MB, probably inline w/ tough love). Actually stillhurts tried to lead you properly to MB and steer you to proper plan A.<p>Listen carefully, today is not the end of the world, it just a set back. You LB'ed you start from where ever your W lead you to. You did good already listening not to bring up A but you miss to do your homework on learning (most of it is in the link on my signature) and trying to fix her. Reread my reply to you.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Welcome to MB. Follow the link below and learn more about MB. Good first step that you want to save M, we believe the same thing. Learn as fast as you can about EN, Plan A & LB. For your daily life, get busy and do not have idle time. STOP TALKING TO HER ABOUT A UNLESS SHE STARTS IT. STOP PUSHING OR TRY TO FIX HER. Learn more and ask Q here or vent in here. You start in the good track to list the issue(s) that your W has with you. Those are the basis for your plan A. Hang in there<hr></blockquote></strong>

Dear Redhat,
I seem to be loosing this. I have been listening to every word. And trying to implement these things into my dailey life. She was the one to bring this up tonight after 3 days of having no talk what so ever about the A's. But it seems she wants to put all the blame on me. I know I've been wrong in the things I have done to her. I'm not denying this.While I was waiting for a responce I was reading the book " love busters"
And I see now I was LB'ing tonight. But if W brings up the subject am I still not saposed to comment or ask questions? I have always thought to fix somthing you must talk it through? I am really getting confused. Im not the smartest person on earth but I do have a level of common sence. It just seems to go against all logical principals. How do you fix something that cant be seen. I know the biggest part is fixing me. I can do that. And am on my way. It just seems like we are trying to fix a flat tire with out air. Or Change a spark plug with out a wrench. Please write back.Im not gonna sleep tonight. So I will be here.
Thanks <p>
New Begining,
Thank you as well for writing. Please read my thread from the begining. Yes there has been some abuse, from both sides. Im not trying to justify anything. I know my actions were and are wrong. Im getting help. Though abuse of any kind is wrong, I have never just beat her up. Yes I have slapped her a few times. I know even once is unacceptable. That is why I am seeking help Imediatly. Right now!! Please read and write me back if you wish
thanks,
Bryan

Bryan,
This plan A all about, it about you and address all issue(s) that she has with you. When she "blames" on you you do not fight it, listen listen and listen .... Remember the fact which issue(s) that you work on and the excuse which is justification for A. You do not fight it ... the issue(s) you appologize to her and you tell her that it won't happen again and you are working on changing it. The excuse you either not responding or just tell her that you have diff. point of view but it is not the time to discuss it. Read, read and read again on MB ... learn as much as you can.

Redhat,
I have looked for this plan A, but cant find it. can you direct me. Unfourtunatly I am having problems downloading anything from this site. Its not the site though, its my computer very old. Itried to download the questioneers. I couldnt open them. I did download the adobe stuff. It still wont let me open them. Im trying. really I am. I want to learn. That is why I am still up reading.
thanks

Follow the General Welcome you will find plan A/B. Then read also Plan A missapplication by Distress. Don't worry about Questionair, it is a soft copy that you will find on the back of your HNHN and Love Buster's book. For now learn plan A then fill in LBQ as if you are WW. (selfreflection). Also if you could afford it, call MB and get help. We are here only try to give our oppinion and sharing our experience but you might need professional to help you out. Get Steve or Jennifer to counsel you. Meanwhile, since they are very busy and you might not get help 'till next week, do not stop reading & learning MB. You have to go through basic concept.<p>Hope this help.