Well, I've made it through the new year celebrations. I was very sad and felt very lost but I've put up a brave front and joined some friends and family to get away from it all. This was the first time in 12 yrs that I was on my own.
I missed my DD's and WS terribly.<p>DD's is with WS and OW for holidays. In my state of confusion I reasoned that it would be good for children to spend time with them seeing that since the A started they have been living it up at hotels, restaurants, travelling and splurging money without a care for responsibility towards their respective families.. WS have very stong bond with DD's.<p>It was not an easy decision but discussed it with my therapist and said it was good for me as I am a working mother and also for OW to see WS's commitment to children, since D-Day 03-01 had to grin and bear all responsibilities and emotional distress without being able to take off from work once. I felt very, very exhausted, mentally and physically.<p>Also WS said that OW's moral values and ours as a family is not the same. OW's children is living with her exH. Well, I prayed for guidance and send the children to him. My WS is a very caring and loving father.<p>Well, WS is now feeling what it is like to be a mother as OW is not helping him in any way with DD's. He must bath them, dress and feed them. As OW does no cooking and does not help him in any with DD's he must take them to various food outlets or barbecue for them. Also DD's is clinging to him and he does not get a chance to be on his own. I'm hoping that this will lift a little fog from WS and see OW for what she really is.<p>I need to Plan A, WS as communication between us is very strained. Decided to be very nice to him over phone and also in process of writing a sincere letter. Please give me more tips on this as I find that WS is extremely scared of being in contact with me because as soon as we've had amicacle discussions OW threatens me and say I must leave them alone, then WS's attitude change to being very cold again.<p>Thinking of giving him letter when he returns children but telling him not to discuss with OW as this is part of my healing process and also confronting issues that went wrong in our M. <p>Please help me?

<p>[ January 01, 2002: Message edited by: gloria101 ]</p>

I need help in finding the Plan A letters that I am reading about on the website. I am busy drafting a letter to my WS but I want to use the right wording.<p>Thanks

Ginny<p>Put away the pen, and rip up your drafts, save it for later and let's go over Plan A. There is no such thing as a Plan A letter. There is a Plan B letter though, read the book because you need to to fully understand the plan you are about to undertake. You really need to read either His Needs Her Needs, Love Busters, and/or Surviving An Affair before you set out to Plan A, you really really do.<p>Since I have been there and done that and it took me awhile before I actually bought my book(s) (once I got one I realized the importance of them and bought them all), I will try to help you out by quoting some parts of Surviving An Affair on Plan A to you, there is more - and you really need to read it, even if you can only get it from your library, you need to get it.<p>"Plan A was simple to understand but difficult to implement. Jon" (BS) "was to avoid doing anything that would upset Sue" (WS)". Anger, disrespect, and demands were to be completely eliminated. The only thing he could do that might upset her was ask questions about her compliance with the conditions of separation as she had agreed to follow" (this is a story that you have to read the rest of the book to fully follow, but it applies no matter your particular situation).<p>"What made plan A particulary hard for Jon to implement was Sue's blatant disregard for his feelings. How could he avoid upsetting Sue when just about everything she] was doing upset him? For that reason, I suggested a time limit for Plan A. Quite frankly, there's a limit to everyone's patience, and Jon was no exception.<p>Jon agreed to a six-month time limit, which is about average for most couples I counsel in his position. During those six months, he would try to avoid doing anything that would upset Sue"(this includes your letter Ginny, unless it would somehow meet a need of his and not upset him). "At the same time, if she would let him, he would try to meet her emotional needs.<p>I warned Jon that as long as Sue was involved with Greg, she would give Jon little opportunity to meet her needs. The time and attention she had always wanted from Jon were now received from Greg. But I still wanted him to offer to meet her needs anyway, just incase she decided to give him another chance.".......................<p>.............................<p>"For many couples, Plan A gets the job done. The thoughtfulness demonstrated by the betrayed spouse helps a wayward spouse make the decision to permanently separate from the lover. But even when plan A doesn't stop an affair, having used it makes marital reconciliation much easier if separaqtion from the lover ever does occur. The care shown inplan A helps make the betrayed spouse an attractive choice for the wayward spouse when the affair dies a natural death. It also proves that the betrayed spouse knows how to protet the wayward spouse from anger, disrespect, and demands, even under conditions of infidelity. It offers hope that he or she can be trusted to continue to protect the wayward spouse after the affair is over. And the betrayed spouse's willingness to meet the emotional needs that the lover was meeting also offers hope for reconciliation.<p>Another advantage to plan A is that when it ends, the betrayed spouse leaves the wayward spouse with the best possible memories of how he or she was treated. When Sue separated from Jon, she left with the memory that he had been considerate of her feelings and he had tried to meet her emotional needs."<p>Now, Ginny in the part I skipped it talks about how during that time he helped Jon write letters to Sue to express how he felt avoiding all anger disrespect and judgements (LB's), but in my opinion this was part of the plan to meet her needs it was a female WS he was talking about. In general I don't know too many guys who would feel this as an emotional need, in fact long drawn out emotional letters usually have an opposite effect to guys, and there certainly is no such thing as a plan A letter. Plan A is a plan of action, or inaction, to ptotect the wayward spouse from any LB's and to try to meet their needs. <p>The only possible LB that Jon was allowed was to question her on her compliance with the agreement of sepearation they had made- this is referring to Sue's agreement to no contact and separation from her lover. So you are allowed to question if there has been contact.. that's it. Other wise no LB's, and do what he will allow to meet his needs, if you don't know what his needs are or are not sure what you do is an LB to him, get him to fill out the questionaires to help you out. That is Plan A.<p>
Hope this helps [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

BTW- obviously in your case it might not be possible to get him to fill out the questionaires or to get him to allow you to meet his needs. Offer to as much as he will allow- if you talkto him big rule #1 is NO LB's (anger disrespectful judgements and demands). That's the most you can do. Until he decideds to come back home or you are ready for Plan B (give it time)

Thanks ScaredInNY<p>This is of great help. <p>I am desperately searching for the books in our country. Found a distributor who will place an order but I will have to wait for two weeks.<p>I feel frustrated as I feel that I am letting a great opportunity to get in contact with WS slip through my fingers. Children is currently with him and OW. I phone children daily. Changed my attitude towards him but he is still very aloof.<p>I messed up big time these past three months as I was dealing with a lot of anger. WS does not speak to me at all, almost like he is avoiding me.
He communicates through D.<p>Said, he feels very guilty for putting me through this as I don't deserve it. Said he just stopped loving me but still cares for me. I think that also stopped now as I became very abusive towards him after we seperated in October 01. Now treats me like I am enemy #1.<p>I need to make amends as I am seeing him in two days time. Want him to see that there is some change. I feel that I should apologize for my behaviour and then take it from there.<p>Please give advice?

Ginny<p>I don't see anything wrong with expressing your apology or feelings. If that would be easier in a letter it is probably better because it will avoid the potential for screw ups that conversations can hold and give you a chance to think over your words carefully. <p>I only wanted to tell you there is no plan A letter specifically, not that writing is wrong, it's not inevery case you just need to make sure of the reasoning. To apologize- this is a good reason, to try to make him see it your way- that's a bad reason, just as an example.<p>
Go ahead and write it up- keeping in mind the no LB thing, and post it here and I will try to help you and I betothers will too- start it on a new thread saying that you want help with editing, that should grab some attention. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Hi ScaredINNy<p>I've decided to hold back on this letter until WS brings back children and then I will give it to him. No LB just how I am feeling.<p>I must still write it but will be seeing him tomorrow and will definitely have a change of attitute.<p>I am very confused as my therapist view and the views of MB is completely different. I've dealth with my M strictly according to what my therapist suggested.
"Get on with your life"
" Do not let him enter the house it was his decision to leave"
"Restrict phone calls to children they must know dad is not around any more"
" Fake it until you make it" and did I fake it to the extend that WS thinks that I am handling all this fine but I am not. WS thinks I am a very strong person.
"Do not make contact with WS" so since he moved out only contact was to discuss finances.
"Do not discuss feelings. Always be dignified."<p>"Did not even have time to discuss my feelings with WS as everything happened so suddenly.<p>I want to change all this now.<p>I will post a draft of the letter in next week.<p>Please help?<p>Thank you

You know what? Not all therapists are alike at all. When you get to read Dr Harley's books- esp in His Needs / Her Needs he discusses how even he in the beginning tried using alot of tactics that didn't work, and alot of therapists have horrible failure rates and most of their clients end up divorcing. That is actually more normal than not.<p>If you asre going to spend the money on therapy- you should shop around until you find one that has the same views as you do, and can offer something constructive to help you save your marriage... or call the Harleys by phone for help.<p>Don't fret the past- there is nothing you can do- look to what you can do now and in the future. Maybe your apologizing and switching your attitude will be encouragement for your H to do it as well. It takes alot of guts to put aside your pride and admit you were wrong and not make excuses for yourself, just apologize and change the behavior. That's what it will take for him, basically feeling like he is as my H described it crawling home on his belly, he was very humbled, still is, if you demonstrate that first it might go a long way in helpinghim find the strength to when the affair dies it's natural death.

Thanks ScaredinNY<p>I am so exhausted as since D-Day all my energy and thoughts has been totally focused on the A.
Even my work suffered and now I am in a situation where I feel like taking a break but am not able to because I have such a huge workload.<p>For the past couple of days I feel like some fog has lifted from me and I could actually concentrate on my workload and do some catching up. For months there was a complete lack of concentration.<p>Spoke to my DD's today and said they cannot wait to see me tomorrow. <p>Whenever, WS and I was in contact OW would phone and ask me to leave them alone. I hope this does not happen tomorrow again as I am really looking forward to seeing him with my change of attitude.
I also changed my telephone numbers to avoid this.<p>For the first time I will not speak about A and will put all my energy into playing with the children and if he gives me a chance I will speak to him. "Want to thank him for the gold chain I received from my children at Xmas because he paid for it". I gave him nothing - had still too much anger in me.<p>Thank you for all your replies. It is really helping me in a great way.<p>I am having some friends over at my house for the weekend so I will not be feeling lonely.<p>I will let you know about my contact with WS.

<"Whenever, WS and I was in contact OW would phone and ask me to leave them alone"><p>And you listened to HER??????????<p>Ok. First off you have the upper hand over her and she knows it- she doesn't want you guys to talk because she is rightfully insecure- the odds are in YOUR favor.<p>I would not for one second listen to her, but you must be careful not to LB your H either (screw her)- I would ask your H how HE feels about it. <p>
You: "<H> I just want to clarify- <OW> told me 'xyz'... is this what you want also? I have tried to do as she requested feeling it must reflect your wishes- but I feel I need to ask you since Your feelings are so important to me, and it occured to me that maybe she didn't consult with you on this. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p> [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Two can play the cat and mouse game and you are his wife- if at all possible use it to your temporary advantage to deposit love units without reality taking out any withdrawls like they are for her now. Remember- guys have a need for admiration!!

On thinking it over this could be a chance to throw a lb on for her- I DOUBT he knows about her calls.<p>So wait- until either you get a chance for friendly conversation- or in your letter ("H I've wanted so many times to talk to you- but <OW> told me "xyz", and I tried to be understanding of your feelings" (Like you assume he knew - play dumb, I'm not saying lie, but to your knowledge do you have reason to know for sure... sounds like that was your assumption, right? [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Remember you are his wife, he is your husband- feel free to let him know you still consider yourself to be too in a most loving and understanding way. I did when my H was living w/OW, it worked.

Hi ScaredInNY<p>I've met my H and daugters today. I could see that H was very uneasy but at least there was not that angry, agressive look on his face.<p>As H always tells me that I am a good mother, I went the extra mile to show love and affection to my DD. OW has given up custody of her children to her exH. DD's wanted to speak about OW woman and I told them that this was our time together and I did not want to speak about her.<p>H left in a hurry to avoid me. When he came to fetch DD I had a chance to apologize. Words to him " I would like to apologize for what I have put you through with all my anger outburst. Also for physically attacking you. I've been through a lot of pain but I realize now that it was not right for me to take my anger out on you because I still respect you as my husband and father of our children. His words "It is fine"<p>I will be changing my job in the next couple of weeks. New job requires some travelling. Explained to DD's and they asked me whether they could then sleepover at H's house. I asked him and he said that he would love that.<p>Am I doing the right thing by sending DD's to him during the week or should I just stick to arrangement of every other weekend. I feel that this will get to OW as she wants him all to herself and it also gives me an opportunity to communicate with H. DD's don't like OW but tolerate her.<p>AS from today OW's children is also at their house for two weeks. Eldest D does not seem happy at all and I asked her whether she wanted to come home to me but said she did not want to hurt H so would stay the last week but looking forward to coming back home at end of holidays.<p>Stangely today I felt very calm and in control. I was nervous at first but thought "you've been through hell so what is there to be afraid" speak to him. I am on my way with PLAN A.<p>Thanks for your help

Ginny - NY has given you good advice. But with great respect towards her, I have to disagree with "there's no such thing as a Plan A letter."<p>Of course she's correct that SAA doesn't mention it, but I know many BSs have written them and Steve H. has endorsed the concept IF they can be written without LB'ing, etc. The benefit of a Plan A letter is that it allows you to communicate calmly and to make sure you're saying what you want to say - easier done in writing than verbally, sometimes. Another benefit is that it gives the WS something to re-read and perhaps keep for reference - some recovered WSs on this forum have said as much.<p>So, allow NY and I to disagree on this point - and I certainly know this approach may not work for you - I'll have to say upfront that it must not have worked for me - or did it? Looking back, it was a tremendous benefit for ME, if not for recovery of my marriage. I have a signed, dated letter from early in our ordeal that clearly lays out my desires for whoever might read it in the future. It helps me to know I did everything I could to preserve my family and it will be a big piece of the puzzle that allows me to continue without guilt.<p>Good luck,

If WAT says Steve endorses it that's enough for me. I only know what I've read. I know I read he helped write letters expressing feelings w/ no LB's that's all I knew. Of couse there is no guidlinefor such a letter like there is for Plan B. WAT is a wise man who's wife seems to have no clue what she is giving up, I would take his word for it. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>WAT maybe you could post your letter for her (or link to it if you did and I missed it) to help her out and get her started?

NY - you are too kind. Below is my Plan A letter sent in Oct. 2000.
****************
Dear <Wife>,<p>We don't get many chances to talk, so I'll write this instead.<p>As I've said before, I still love you and want a chance to repair our relationship. This is despite knowing your affair with <OM> is continuing. I am painfully aware that I was not meeting your needs as a husband and I apologize for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with <OM> possible. <p>I have grown tremendously from this experience and I ask you to open your mind and see the changes for yourself. <Son> and I are closer than ever and I acknowledge that I did not always show him the respect he deserved. He has told me he loves me more than ever before. I have looked at myself from your perspective and have recognized that my emotional outbursts of the past were judgmental, insensitive, and counterproductive. I have a new appreciation for your need to be able to freely express yourself without hesitation. You can feel safe voicing your anger and concerns. Whatever happens to us, these changes are permanent in me and I am a better person because of them. I am soon starting with a therapist to explore other aspects I can work on. I feel much better about myself as a person and as an individual, I am strong and well along in my recovery. My life goes on.<p>During this experience my efforts have been on changing me, not on blaming anyone else expecting them to change. I am the only person I can change. I know I have other improvements to make - and you can help me. Similarly, I can be the best person to help you make changes - if you allow me in. In short, I will avoid the mistakes I've made in the past and we can create a new life for the three of us that will meet all of our needs. It won't happen overnight and it?ll take a lot of work, but we owe it to <son> to try hard to make it work. Choosing not to try is the blind way out and it leaves the same problems unsolved and creates more difficult ones.<p>I believe <Son> and I are the two men who together can help you become happy for the rest of your life. We are a permanent reality, here for the long haul, and we have a lot of good memories for the foundation of a family. Similarly, you can make the two of us very, very happy. We want you and need you. I will support any need you have in a non-judgmental way when of if you decide to end your affair. You can come to me in safety, knowing I will embrace you. Even if you're not sure, I will understand and provide empathy.<p>Whenever you are ready to talk, I'll be ready to listen. Please lower your guard and let me in. I loved you when I married you and I love you to this day. I am willing to do whatever it takes to put our family back together. I want us to be able to rebuild our marriage so that we meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We can build a new relationship in which everything we do makes all three of us happy. Then there will never again be a reason for us to separate. Talk to <deceased son> and <deceased friend> as I have. They would both be disappointed in us. <p>I am here for you and I love you,<p><WAT>
****************
Ginny - hope this helpd. Good luck.
WAT<p>[ January 05, 2002: Message edited by: worthatry ]</p>

Hi!<p>I need some help on the same issue. I am the BW and my WH is living with the OW. The OW has cut him off completely from me, his children and even his parents.<p>When he left he immediately moved in with the OW (she had been a friend of mine). The two have been seen in public, attended a wedding, traveled out of town, or they are busy doing work at her house (examples: putting in a new tile floor, fixing things that were broken, etc.) <p>I have been very hurt and at first I was anxious, confused and really did not know what to do or how to act. I changed the locks, accounts and all of the furniture!!<p>Now, I am trying to talk with my H and get him to open up to me. I have read the book- "Power Of A Praying Wife" and I have been writing all of the information out in a notebook. H came on Thursday night and this was the first time that I have seen any lifting of the FOG. We talked about the POPW and also about the book SAA. <p>I tell him that there is nothing that I cannot forgive and forget, that he is the love of my life, I have even apologized for the hurt he has been suffering. Also, I firmly believe that the A is 50% my fault for neglecting my marriage.<p>I know that the decision is his BUT I would love to have a second chance to be the wife he needs, wants and desires. He has said that he doesn't know what he will decide.<p>We have been seeing a therapist and will go again soon. She has not been a tremendous help. I may end up changing.<p>Am I doing the right things?? What are some other things that I should be doing?? H has promised to come and has sometimes failed to come, also he doesn't call very often and he has yet to speak with the D that lives at home!!<p>I do not want a D, I would like to save my M. He is a wonderful man and has always been a good father. This is the first time anything like this has ever happened. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Sorry, I don't know how to use the sute little graemlins!!

Hi!<p>I need some help on the same issue. I am the BW and my WH is living with the OW. The OW has cut him off completely from me, his children and even his parents.<p>When he left he immediately moved in with the OW (she had been a friend of mine). The two have been seen in public, attended a wedding, traveled out of town, or they are busy doing work at her house (examples: putting in a new tile floor, fixing things that were broken, etc.) <p>I have been very hurt and at first I was anxious, confused and really did not know what to do or how to act. I changed the locks, accounts and all of the furniture!!<p>Now, I am trying to talk with my H and get him to open up to me. I have read the book- "Power Of A Praying Wife" and I have been writing all of the information out in a notebook. H came on Thursday night and this was the first time that I have seen any lifting of the FOG. We talked about the POPW and also about the book SAA. <p>I tell him that there is nothing that I cannot forgive and forget, that he is the love of my life, I have even apologized for the hurt he has been suffering. Also, I firmly believe that the A is 50% my fault for neglecting my marriage.<p>I know that the decision is his BUT I would love to have a second chance to be the wife he needs, wants and desires. He has said that he doesn't know what he will decide.<p>We have been seeing a therapist and will go again soon. She has not been a tremendous help. I may end up changing.<p>Am I doing the right things?? What are some other things that I should be doing?? H has promised to come and has sometimes failed to come, also he doesn't call very often and he has yet to speak with the D that lives at home!!<p>I do not want a D, I would like to save my M. He is a wonderful man and has always been a good father. This is the first time anything like this has ever happened. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Sorry, I don't know how to use the cute little graemlins!!

Hi!<p>I need some help on the same issue. I am the BW and my WH is living with the OW. The OW has cut him off completely from me, his children and even his parents.<p>When he left he immediately moved in with the OW (she had been a friend of mine). The two have been seen in public, attended a wedding, traveled out of town, or they are busy doing work at her house (examples: putting in a new tile floor, fixing things that were broken, etc.) <p>I have been very hurt and at first I was anxious, confused and really did not know what to do or how to act. I changed the locks, accounts and all of the furniture!!<p>Now, I am trying to talk with my H and get him to open up to me. I have read the book- "Power Of A Praying Wife" and I have been writing all of the information out in a notebook. H came on Thursday night and this was the first time that I have seen any lifting of the FOG. We talked about the POPW and also about the book SAA. <p>I tell him that there is nothing that I cannot forgive and forget, that he is the love of my life, I have even apologized for the hurt he has been suffering. Also, I firmly believe that the A is 50% my fault for neglecting my marriage.<p>I know that the decision is his BUT I would love to have a second chance to be the wife he needs, wants and desires. He has said that he doesn't know what he will decide.<p>We have been seeing a therapist and will go again soon. She has not been a tremendous help. I may end up changing.<p>Am I doing the right things?? What are some other things that I should be doing?? H has promised to come and has sometimes failed to come, also he doesn't call very often and he has yet to speak with the D that lives at home!!<p>I do not want a D, I would like to save my M. He is a wonderful man and has always been a good father. This is the first time anything like this has ever happened. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Sorry, I don't know how to use the cute little graemlins!!

Always- Really you should start your own thread for this- but I don't want to not answer because of that. It sounds like you are doing all you can really. As long as he is living w/OW what more can you do? Keep the door open, in a symbolic sense anyhow. Let him know it is, be loving.. but of course the big thing is no LB. But it sounds like you know that.<p>The next big thing I recommend for you is prayer. God has a plan for you, and we don't yet know what it is, but if you let him he will bring it into your life. Pray that His will be done. He is very pro marriage you know [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] . Your faith can really help you through this time, and it sounds like you know that too.<p>As for <"Also, I firmly believe that the A is 50% my fault for neglecting my marriage."> I FIRMLY disagree with you. Does that mean that you didn't neglect your marriage, no. Does that mean that you didn't contribute to the conditions that lead to it - no. -----<p>BUT the choice to not protect his weaknesses was HIS choice. No one dragged him kicking and screaming, this was his choice. Steve Harley in a recent news letter said that A's are not caused by failing to have your needs met in marriage, they are caused by not protecting your weaknesses. Think about it.