Hello,<p>I would like to start by saying I am new to the board. I have never really tried to find answers before but, it seems my wife and I have serious problems trying to convey to each other the things that make marriages work.<p>Let me explain the situation a bit more. I am 31 and my wife is 28. We have two children, a boy 12 and a girl 7. We have been married for 8 years now. When we first got married I was pretty much a lost cause of a human being. I was 23 years old, I drank like fish, I was a poor excuse for anger management and I had no clue to what marriage was or how to go about making it work.<p>Over the past eight years we have split up twice and now being the third time. During the first two years I admit I did not do very well at being there for my wife when she needed me but, I knew deep down she was the ONE. What comes next is very disturbing to me. <p>Around the 3rd year of marriage, I got this crazy notion that maybe trying a 3rd member in our sexual relationship would be good. I am not sure why, and I still think that to this day! Anyway, we did try it and my wife was Totally against it, and still is to this day so it sorta seems, but I am not sure. Something has changed though.<p>The first time we split up, it was due to a situation where I was a complete a control freak (which I learned from a Super Controlling father so I have found out in therapy.) I was abusive and controlling. This led to the first split up. We got back together after about 6 months and some classes on anger management. We were very tight when we got back together and things went very well for about 1 year. <p>There was still a problem with slight outbursts of anger from myself and for some reason I still thought having a 3rd person in our relationship would be good. I to this day am not sure how the idea of having a 3rd party in our sexual relationship could be good. No idea at all. The reason I say that, is because when we first got together and girlfriends before that I would have beaten the living crap out someone that even looked her way. This was completely opposite of what I really used to believe in.<p>So, we were back together and things were sliding again the wrong way, this time she brought up to me that she liked this person (man). I was shocked cause she was the type of person that hated the thought of another person in our sexual relationship. At the same time I was excited about the thought of her having a sexual encounter with him. Again, I think about this now and wonder (What the hell is it with wanting my wife to be with another man?) I have tried to find a reason why&#8230;and I draw up blanks to this question all the time to this day. <p>Well, needless to say she did end up spending time with this individual in what I think to be at least 4 sexual encounters. Right after which I would say within a 2 to 3 month period we were on the rocks again.<p>This time I was a mess, we split up, I moved in with a buddy, I started doing drugs. Life for me was a complete mess. I tried to let the kids know I was there for them and loved them but I was really not in touch with the world. During this time my wife met another (man) and was seeing him. I was truly devastated, the kids were not in my life, my wife was seeing another man and trying to strike up a full time relationship with him and I was in an endless hole. <p>I decided after almost a year of this I was going to become a new person. I went to school and got a degree. (Which really started my turn around.) I spend a lot of time soul searching and trying to find myself, and during this time my wife split up with her mate and started wanting me back.<p>I felt at this time I was doing very well, I felt better about myself, I was really getting into our kids and doing things with them, my wife was truly happy with me. We talked, we laughed we worked hard, we spent time together, we got back together and I forgave everything including the failed relationship between her and her (boyfriend/lover).<p>Things went very well for about 2 years. But even after all this&#8230;I still had this idea that having a 3rd party in our sexual life was a good idea. Not at first mind you. It took about a year to get back to this. Not that I really understand why after all this crap, and two split ups why I would even think such a thing. It really perplexes me and I have no answer to it. Anyway, after about 2 years I can say we started distancing ourselves. More me than her. I kind have slid backwards in our relationship, no abuse per say as physical, but some to her in the form of mental with the sexual thing again. She was still trying, but I sort shut down again. Not talking, stuffing things, not paying attention to what she wanted, and so on.<p>This went on for about another year, Don&#8217;t get me wrong, I really love her and can really not think of a more beautiful (inside and out) women in this world. I love my kids to death and really have tried to spend time with them and make sure they are okay and I suppose try to protect them a little too much from all the bad things in life. <p>Anyway, My wife was bored with us, we did not do much, we did not really talk about things, and when we did do things I think we had so much stuff tied up inside we did not really have much of a good time. We tried to keep the kids happy by doing things with them and being there for them but not ourselves I fear. I spent time concentrating on paying bills and trying to forge ahead with house and home. During this time I played less and less attention to my wife, which I see now. <p>During all of this we spoke again of her seeing another man, in the form of fantasy in the bedroom. Sometimes she would really get into it and I would think she likes it other times she would bring it up to me. Then at times she would be very distant when talking about it. I was and am very confused about all of it.<p>Trying to make a super long story short, She found a girlfriend at work. They started becoming really good friends and she started going out with her. I did not mind cause I figured she needs time to play away from home and me. To get out some. To me I thought this would be a good thing. She could go out with her friend and have some fun in life, and be happy. Kind of get away in a sence from the drabness of home life. Personaly I thought this would bring us a little closer, giving us some time apart and letting things relax in the relationship I suppose. <p>Turns out she met another (man) while going to bars with her friend. She came home and told me about it too, to excite me I thought. She acted like she really wanted to talk about being with him and letting me know everything. I was kind of shocked I suppose but again we had talked about this stuff while in the bedroom sometimes. So, I thought it was a fling, not really a (relationship). Boy was I wrong, what is worse I can see all this to a T too. I know why she is doing this, I know I was not there for her, I know I was not giving her what she needed, I know why this happened. <p>Anyway, she really fell in love with this guy. He is not even the kind of guy she would really want to be with so she has told me but he holds the key. He tells her she is beautiful, pays attention to her, takes her out, and so on. Basically all the stuff I was not doing anymore. There is a curve to it though. He has a girlfriend, he does drugs, he does not want kids and so on, but she still has this strong desire to be with him. <p>Yes we have split up again, go figure. I guess right now I am really trying to turn around once again. I am trying to be there for the kids, I am trying to be there for her, I am trying to really work on what shred of life we had together. I really have seen the light this time. I know you say (yeah right), but I have. It really all hit me at once. <p>I have had time to sit and think about it, and see what all went wrong, what happened, what needs to be done, what the problem is. I feel though my wife has jumped off the deep end though. She has really lost herself. Like I can blame her. I don&#8217;t know how she made it with me this far. What I do know is I want to make all this up to her and the kids. I may not be able to do that I know, but I want to give my all. During the last 8 years we have really had some good times, and there were times where we really connected and were what you would call a perfect couple. I know we can make it back to that, (not without help mind you) but, I know that there is something there and she periodicly shows me this or did.<p>One thing we have never tried to do together is counseling. We have never gone. We have never dug together into each other and tried to find answers about how we feel, how we think, how we deal with things and so on. I really feel, if we try this we could make it. <p>I have grown up a lot over the past 8 years, and really changed a great deal from what I once was. She has sort of remained at a stand still and really has not let go of things ever since she was about 16. I want to take the last 8 years and work on it. I want to help her, I want to help the kids, and I want to salvage the candle before it flickers out. I know there is still something there between us. I see it here and there. <p>I guess what I am trying to ask is do any of you think that after such a turbulent relationship is there a chance. Is there really a use to try to salvage this other than the kids being evolved? Is it possible for two people to go through so much stuff and make it? Do you think that counseling would really help? Do you think that I am just a lost cause and should find a cave somewhere? Please help!

Hi, <p>Lost cause???? No, just hard roads ahead. Welcome to MB and take a look at the basic concepts section above. You & your W have been through a lot at such a young age. You both bear battle scars that are permanent. However recovery is still possible. It is highly dependant on the participants. <p>Here's some suggestions: Get the book his needs/her needs. You already know you failed in meeting her needs, now learn how to recognize it and work on it even from afar. Take a look a the phone counseling sessions with Steve or Jennifer or get with a good marriage counselor in your area. Read up on the basic concepts section at the top of this page. Do the emotional needs questionnaire from the basic concepts section. If both of you can take it great, if not, you do it for both of you. <p>READ READ READ!!! You have a lot of work to do but you have to start somewhere anyway. Now the benefit of this site is that there are many of us that have been through a lot and seen even more. Our collective thoughts and experiences may help you. They are just suggestions. None of us here are professionals in this field but we are the primary participants since our families lives are at stake. So while we may not be university accredited we all carry degrees/diplomas from the hardest school of all: The School of Life.<p>Keep posting here, even when you need to vent. <p>We will be here. <p>Take Care,
L.

xfelix,
Your story it is hard to chew, you need a professional help. Call MB and get counseling right away. I don't beleive we have anybody w/ similiar situation like you. I just did searches w/ different keywords. MB is based on a very simple approach, EN(s) and willing to work on it. It is a very important step you just take, a willingness to try to work on your M.<p>Good luck.

xfelix,<p>Talk about score big time. You have managed to catch the attention of my two favorite people, Orchid and RedHat. They have managed to get me through some very tough times. Sometimes they had to drag me kicking and screaming all the way, but they got me through.<p>Listen to everything they say. They don't know it all, as Orchid said, but they have a good background to draw from. Take what you need and leave the rest. I would say this about most people here at MB, but I go out of my way to say it about those two. Everyones situation is diffrent so there will be no cut and dried answers. <p>I would also like to jump in and say that alghough RedHat may be correct in the types of trouble you have, I think that there are others who have seen as much, if not more hard times, and are making it through. I agree with Orchid that you have a hard road ahead, but I don't think I'd head for the hills just yet. You have a great deal of learning to do, and a lot of work ahead. Read everything you can here, especialy the Basic Concepts and the links in RedHats signature.<p>I also recomend getting counciling, but shop for the right councelor (C). If you can afford it get it from Steve H. or Jennifer, here at MB. If not get one who understands MB principals, or is willing to read a lot and learn. Most importantly get one that will work with you to reach your goal. My C wasn't familiar with MB, and I couldn't afford to be picky. She is reading His Needs Her Needs (HNHN) and Surviving an Affair (SAA). She is Learning as we go, but we are working twards my goal.<p>Work on makeing yourself a better person. It may help your marriage (M), or it may not. One way or another it never hurts.<p>Thanks
Rev

xfelix,
Your honesty is refreshing, funny how in retrospect we can see so clearly our mistakes.
Your slow return to the threesome thing, hmm, let me throw out some thoughts and you can keep them or junk them. My first thought is you are addicted to porn, inevitably you need more of a thrill. My second thought is after years of neglect AGAIN your wife threw the other man in front of you hoping you would wake up and say NO WAY you are mine and I love you!!!
I think you both keep returning to each other and you need to figure out what the pull is. You mentioned that she is stuck at 16 and hasnt moved on. How would she see you?
You have made a lot of good progress over the years, you have the willpower to change your life and make it better, what keeps holding you back?
Where are you spiritually?
One of the most important things I have learned here is - I came here looking to change my spouse - to fix him somehow, but the answers have always come in fixing myself first.
Good Luck