No news probably is a good news ... ^^^bump^^^.

I hope so redhat. ^^bump^^

Praying that things are going well.
C&S

Dear Forgiver,<p>Thinkin' happy thoughts!!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>L.

Sorry Not really!<p> Today is thursday. The first opportunity I have had to come here since he is still sleeping. (aviodance behavior). It was very weird getting him at the airport. I was reading a magazine and he came up next to me and put his hand on my shoulder and said hey. I looked a thim adn siad "Hi hon" We both seemed to be waiting to see who would hug who first. I moved in and we both cried a bit. We have been driving around here and there going out to eat alot. Went running together went to visit a friend. <p>
On tuesday he went to see my therapist with me. This was the first time A was brought up. Basically H said he wants to figure out why he feels this way. He is confused. He says it feels very weird being home. He said he feels like the kid that went away to military school adn he has come home and his Mom is trying to make up for him being away. Now mind you I had suggested things for us to do (Met game, go to city, rock climbing etc) but we have not done them. i have just made suggestions. We really havn't done very much,. It is very awkward being around each other. He will hold my hand or put his hand on my knee from time to time. He has given me a few pecks on the lips but I pulled away. Couldn't help it.<p>
We started to get intimate the first night he was home but as things got heated I asked him about the STD. HE said he treated himself with antibiotics. He said if I didn't want to have sex he understood. I think it was a relief for him. We have not been intimate since. He used to be very easily aroused and now nothing. I don't doit for him. I can't be with him knowing he wasn't treated by a doctor anyway.<p> The killer comments so far were: "I don't want to stay with you for the wrong reasons. And I don't want to leave you for the wrong reasons." I told him that sounded like a lose, lose situation for me. I told him better choices and opportunities were going to come along for both of us for the rest of our lives. THere will always be someone better out there. The difference is that I love him and have made the decision to be committed to him for the rest of my life. Even if something better comes along i have stopped looking!" His response was "I wish i could say the same. I wish I could say I could only be with one person" It killed me.<p> In therapy he said he was home to see why he felt this way -not that he wanted to do whatever it took to work this out. He said he was going back in September. I suggested that I go back with him. The scary side of him came out and he was vehimently against me going. "YOu can never go there again. It's too late. I wish either I had never gone or you had gone from the beginning. Now it is too late you can never go there. If you went you would see her every day. I am going to see her every day. What did you think I was never going to see her again? I'm going to see ehr everyday. <p> I know he sent her an e-mail that said miss you... Things are strange here I keep thinking about being there and the little one. (I'm not sure what or who the little one is, maybe the dog or sheep or she's prego?)<p> He said he didn't want to do anything and he didn't want to talk about "this" all week. So now he is sleeping, avoiding me and I want the next 2 years to rush right by. <p> This is so hard. i can not plan A with him right here knowing he is e-mailing and he doesn't even say he wants to be with me. He doesn't know what he wants. He said he was thinking of leaving here and going to stay with his parents instead. I do not think it is a good idea because then he would speak to her and e-mail her alot more.<p> I want to ask him if it is over. I do not think it is. But I want to give him the chance to tell the truth. I want to tell him we have a better chance of having the best marriage he will ever have but he must end all contact with her. I don't know if it is better to have him here or ask him to leave.<p> t thsi point I think he does not want to be married to me at all, but he said he still loves me very, very much in the therapists office. Maybe that was for his benifit?<p> Help! What do i do? What do I say? I feel like dying! Once I go back to work next week he will have all day to e-mail and call her. Do I ask him not to? to give me a chance?<p>
I do not think he has moved out of the apt. I think he told her he was coming back here to try to make it work and if it didn't he would be back to her no matter what. Whatever i do, it's wrong. I understanf it will be this way for at least three weeks. I only have three months to change his mind. <p> I told him I can handle anything he has to say except lies. I asked him to be totally honest.<p> When can I tell him about MB and SAA? He wants to know why he is thinking and feeling this way. He thinks he is alone. The examples in the book would smack him in the face. He fits the profile.<p>HELP! HELP! HELP!
Forgiver

I don't get it. My H says he wants to come home and work it out. He says it won't be over until he leaves St. Kitts. He siad he was going to come home and make it up to me.<p> Now he is home. I think he is in withdrawl so I understand that it will be strange. But he e-mails her. Which sets us back to zero correct? And he e-mails her to say he misses her and things sre strange here. Which makes me think it is not over. As PsychoB**** told me on general posts, he is coming home to make it seem like everything is ok then he will go back to his honeymoon in 4 months.<p> He said i can never go to St. Kitts. It is too late. I would never uderstand, he would never put himself through that. As his wife can I demand that I go anyway? I know I should not make demands.<p> He said when he comes to school in the stated then i can go and live with him. But I can never go to St. Kitts. Should I inquire about the schools code of conduct? Are affairs grounds for expulsion?<p> My H sad he does not want to talk about it. So I can never bring it up? When can I suggest counseling from MB or show him a book? I have HN/HN on tape. Should I pop it in while we are driving? My H has a communication problem. What if he NEVER brings it up? can I suggest counseling two times a week?<p> HELP!
Forgiver

I let my H go a long time ago. I wanted to let his A die a natural death. I did not want him to come back until he was ready to give 100%. <p> I think he came back too soon. He will really resent me if I tell him I think he shoulf=d go back. But I'd like to tell him to go back. He is missing his first week og=f classes. He withdrew from the school adn he has to reapply. I want him out until he wants to really be here.<p> By e-mailing her and saying he misses her and is thinkking about "THe little one?" he is only prolonging my misery and torture. When can I tell him that for us to have chance he must not have contact?<p> He already told me when he goes back in September he will see her everyday. It is like he is rubbing it in my face. Yeah he's home here with me now. I should be happy and thankful and the whole nine yards. He took off the semester for goodness sakes!! But he wants to be back with her!!
UUUUGGGGHHHHH!!
Forgiver

Forgiver,<p>Vent in her ... let it out and kick those punching back ... The next 4 months is a real test for you. You have been doing plan A and you get your H waffled and come back. You should be really proud of your self !!!. H has not see your changes yet and it is different then hearing and listening !. Tune up your Plan A !!!. Let him email OW ... let him talk to OW ... however you let him know that those actions will eats up your love for him ... do not demand H to stop, just ask once and inform him about your feeling ... do not tell him what H should do !. Let A dies naturally ... it is simple sentence but not many could follow through it.<p>Show him what you are now !!!. She him your changes ... never bring up about R or A ... pretend that it never happens. Remember this is not a doormat act but unconditional love that BS gives to WS. Gift to buy time to let H comes out of his fog by your plan A. His A is out on day light 1-1-02 and he is back w/ you [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] !!!, amazing piece of efforts you had put out there, a very long distant plan A. Remember PTC !!!. Do not push H away, let him come out on his own. As long as there is contact, recovery is out of the question but you are in plan A, not in recovery yet.<p>Call Jennifer right away to get advice !. IMVHO, make this 4 months like a honeymoon for H. Tell H that you want to have fun with H while he is here. Now it is the time to plan A your guts out. You might even need that paxil that you have on the drawer to help you out. Give time for H to see, experience, and enjoy new you. You decide when to plan B and get Jennifer help to identify the triggers for you to move from plan A to plan B.<p>You know your boundry already and you have let him know ... let it go for now. Your plan B or maybe plan C will hit your H head like 2x4 !. You are a very strong woman ! I beleive you could do it and just keep reminding your self that the better you execute your plan A is the harder 2x4 is going to hit his head and his heart.<p>At least give 2 more months then review your situation. Get the list of triggers to keep your eyes on from Jennifer to help you decide to go to plan B. Those triggers are for you not H's actions or words.<p>Thanks to the Lord that H is here now and you have given strength and wisdom to carry on. Good work [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>-RH-

Forgiver, <p>U feel like you are being manipulated, stress tested and used? Well you are. <p>U decide whether you will allow him to talk to you like that in your home. I am not telling you to make him stay or leave. That is his decision. But right now his words as you have stated are disrespectful. Maybe his parents will tolerate that type of attitude. Your respect for you and your home is too valuable to let someone (even someone you love ) to be treating you with such disrespect. <p>Yea, mine did the same thing. At first, I caved in then thought, hey, I am better than that and yep, I don't need a manipulating unappreciative brat in my house, waving a stinky ow in my face. So I told him to leave and eventually he did. The police took him away because he was having a bad attitude. <p>U can share that experience with your H if you want. Step back and think what other person would you allow in your home to stay they and continually disrespect you? NOt even your child could stay if they told you that they would use drugs while living in your home and steal and harm others. So why should our spouses get away with it?<p>IMHO of course.
L.

Hi Forgiver, both Redhat and Orchid have given you good advice and some things to consider.<p>IMHO keep plan Aing. You know how to girl!!! If he doesn't want to do the fun things you suggest, bugger him and go by yourself. Then come home and when he asked where you've been (which my H seems to do like he has some bloody right to) you tell them really enthusiastically about all the fun you've had. You watch the reaction, he'll try to tell you that he dosen't really like those things anyway, blah, blah, blah - the psychology is fascinating!! <p>C'mon Forgiver, you know all this. I bet you we're so excited he was coming home. I know, I've been there. Its so disappointing when you find out that there selfish, mean, inconsiderate and hurtful and they don't seem to give a **** that you've been through hell. All they can see is their own confusion. My H told me last week he was going thru a 'selfish phase' and he 'just wanted to be free' how lucky he has that choice. Once your over the shock and regrouped, get back to plan A.<p>My FIL told me today that H said there would be "some" chance of reconciliation if I moved house, closer to the city. I thought '**** that' I buried my mum today, I'm not moving anywhere right now, and I bet if I moved, there'd be some other 'criteria' I would have to satisfy. I'm not playing his games anymore. If he wants to get back with me, he is going to have to tell me he loves me and lift his game a bit. In other words, I've really thought about what I want now, the man he is right now does not do it for me. And times, like today when I'm grieving for my mum I wish I could have him back, but its not going to happen so I better just accept it.<p>I know you've thought a lot too. If his behaviour dosen't feel right, set a boundary. If he's being hurtful-tell him and ask him not to do it-its your life, and you have the right and the choice.<p>I don't know what you do re contact with OW. That would piss me off too. I think RH and Orchid had good advice there. Remember the LB's, they will undo everything you've worked for so try to limit them. If he wants to go to parents, then let him, it might be easier on both of you. Honestly forgiver, I thought my H moving out will be the end of the world, but I like it. I only have to have small doses of him (I loved my H, but I don't like who he is now, yuck). That way I can regroup for the next meeting, I limit LB's and I don't have to put up with the bull****. I think that he may be still in contact with OW, but that's his choice and there is nothing I can do to stop it if he is. <p>Please come and vent here Forgiver, you need it now more than ever. I'm praying for you.<p>BTW, my H and I had sex (notice I didn't say 'made love') last weekend. We went for a second time but it just wasn't happening for him. This is unusual as he prides himself on 'being ready'. I wonder if its a trait in WS? Its scared me at first because I thought it was me - he's not turned on by me, blah, blah, blah, but I try not to worry about it now. Don't let him lay his guilt onto you.<p>[ May 03, 2002: Message edited by: Seahorse ]</p>

Thank You Redhat, Orchid and Seahorse!<p>
This is so hard!! We go through hours of just reading or watching tv or driving and not saying much. It is very hard to have a conversation. H does not want to talk. He makes some efforts by kissing me on the cheek or putting his arm around me or putting his hand on my knee. But I think it is for show. To try to reassure me.<p> I know he said it makes him uncomfortable when i touch or kiss him. But I have been deprived of human contact for so long I don't care. He was laying on the couch last night all stretched out. i laid next to him with my head on his chest, listening to his heart. He said very still with his hands under his head never around me. So I just held him. Forced myself on him in a way. He tolerated it. But his guilt was evident. He later fell asleep and actually wrapped his arms and legs around me. He must have forgotten where he was and thought I was her. He seemed aroused but I did not act on it. We both went to bed. He tossed and turned and then went to watch a steamy movie and sleep on the couch. I slept alone-with the dogs anyway. <p> Ican feel he is still involved. HE has pictures of her and cards from her in his drawer. Should I get copies for my own? I don't know what I'll need them for. Except maybe down the road for court, if it gets to that point.<p> He cut the lawn today I planted some irises. We puttered around. Not talking. We are in the same house but on different floors. THere seems to be a distance.<p> Ijust keep tyring to be pleasant

Forgiver,<p>Vent in here and not to H, ok'ed. You have worked so hard, one oopsh could become a long set back. Take it slow as he allows you, remember H just a few days away from OW. There will be a withdrawal. Let this martian (H) deals on his own, don't push it ... Martian feels that he must solve this mess on his own and try to figure it out on his own. When martian is ready he will come to you, just be pleasant and ready to catch him when he come to you falling down.<p>Good work ... !!!, you want to show affections ? give it to your dog !. I did that to my 2 D as part of my plan A since my WW rejects my attempt. Remember in this plan A, you want to demonstrate change w/o any expectation for H to response. If H rejects you, show your changes different ways, be creative [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>I though you already talking to lawyer ... please do so. Not to Dv but to know your right and find the one that only represent woman !!!. They know in and out and they are the greatest resource that you could have ... it won't be cheap but get the best and speciality in representing W.<p>Keep us posted -RH-

Dear Forgiver,<p>Please understand that when a WS comes home he does tend to feel like a stranger. However the family does NOT have to be overly accmodating. Why? He is NOT a guest, he is a contributing family member. <p>Based on that fact & what I have gone through, here are my 'opinions'. <p>1. Let him have some space. A favorite excuse so they can go running back to the OW during a moment of weakness is that the BS is 'suffocating them'. <p>2. With that said, go out and do your own thing, like you used to (shopping, visiting, talking with friends, posting here). Let him see how you coped while he was gone. In much smaller dosages than when he was actually gone but I know you get the picture. Then when he give the above 'no space case' excuse, you will have an answer. I did this to my H and then said, ok, NEXT excuse?!??!!? That quelled him down for a while. See he now knew I was on to his WS tricks. <p>3. Those pictures and other things......whatever is brought into your home that you consider 'offensive', tell him. He can either dispose of them or keep them in a separate place. You have seen them (copied if you need to) then tell him to get those 'offensive' things out of your home. See you don't specify what is offensive just that he needs to get his offensive things out of your home. Let him figure it out and if he does not and asks you then, tell him.... hmmmm.... like those pictures, letters, drugs, etc. The word you choose has to be applicable to more than just OW stuff. That way he can not blame you for 'picking on his friend'. Another WS thing they learn at WSA-U (WSAffairs University). <p>4. Later, after the above hurdle is done. Ask him how he plans to meet your needs. Learn to ask questions that make him respond with more than just yes or no. <p>That's it for now. <p>Take Care,
L.

Hi Forgiver, I'm so sorry you are going through this. Its like what you want is in front of you but you can't have it.<p>RH and Orchid have good advice again. In fact, I'm going to take some of Orchids myself (not that WS is home, but he did promise to mow my lawn and I'm too drained from grief to do it). <p>I wish I had more to offer, but right now I'm barely coping with my grief, I seem to be grieving for mum one minute and H the next.<p>I'm thinking of you though, you are in my heart and my mind.

Hi Forgiver:
I am so sorry for what you are going through. I know exactly how you feel because I am going through the exact same thing. My WS is home to work things out. Has me feeling like things are getting back to normal and WHAMMO!!! An email or something to take us back to square one. I am really tired of putting my feelings into this because I keep getting hurt and all they seem to care about is the OW and her feelings. Is she okay, what does she think, blah, blah, blah. <p>My advice is don't let him disrespect you. You have plan A'd long enough. Think about Plan B. He seems to be calling all the shots. When he can come home, contacting the OW, disrespecting you, etc. Call some shots. What did he come home for? To use up your electricity emailing that bimbo? Yuck! The Harley's clearly say in their book, "Do not put up with it for one second." You have been more than accomodating in this. You are his wife for God's sake!!! At least you deserve respect in your own home. Don't you?<p>I just don't understand this stuff. How these WS get involved in this crap and mess up everyone's life. And we are expected to what? Let them have the best of us and their OW,OM? No way. I am sick to death of this. It makes you sick to your stomach doesn't it. How did they let these other people in our lives and place them above us? I feel sick for you and sick for me and sick for everyone who has a similar thread on this site. Just sick girl. Just sick. Good luck. wu

Forgiver,<p>I disagree a bit w/ Orchid & wucus. Let him see new you first ... forget about boundry for now, you could express your displease w/ no LB'ed, no demand, no anger, no jugement ... just fact. You are in plan A. H did more disrespect that this, yet you still take him. My point is this is too soon to draw the boundry ... in MB there is no boundry. Tell him w/ love & care about your feeling w/o LB'ed, never mention it again, sit back and watch his actions. Let him see new you and let him come to his own sense ... if you manipulate it w/ guilt or with threat, your H migh complay but resentment will hinder your recovery. Be patience, this is just a small sacrifice compare to the end price. Consult w/ Jennifer ASAP.<p>Lord, give this woman a wisdom to see Your plan and strength to walk it though. In the name of Jesus & Holly spirit I pray. Amen -RH-
I am so sorry for what you are going through. I know exactly how you feel because I am going through the exact same thing. My WS is home to work things out. Has me feeling like things are getting back to normal and WHAMMO!!! An email or something to take us back to square one. I am really tired of putting my feelings into this because I keep getting hurt and all they seem to care about is the OW and her feelings. Is she okay, what does she think, blah, blah, blah. <p>My advice is don't let him disrespect you. You have plan A'd long enough. Think about Plan B. He seems to be calling all the shots. When he can come home, contacting the OW, disrespecting you, etc. Call some shots. What did he come home for? To use up your electricity emailing that bimbo? Yuck! The Harley's clearly say in their book, "Do not put up with it for one second." You have been more than accomodating in this. You are his wife for God's sake!!! At least you deserve respect in your own home. Don't you?<p>I just don't understand this stuff. How these WS get involved in this crap and mess up everyone's life. And we are expected to what? Let them have the best of us and their OW,OM? No way. I am sick to death of this. It makes you sick to your stomach doesn't it. How did they let these other people in our lives and place them above us? I feel sick for you and sick for me and sick for everyone who has a similar thread on this site. Just sick girl. Just sick. Good luck. wu[/QB][/QUOTE]

Thank you Redhat, Orchid and Seahorse!!<p>
You are my saviors! We went to his parents house today for a huge birthday party for his Mom. His whole family was there. I got a chuckle when his sister came up behind him and whacked him HARD! on the back of his head. She then said I've been wanting to do that! It is something she would have done anyway in a sisterly kind of way but today it had a whole new meaning.<p> I avoided him most of the day and mingled witht the family. Everyone raved how great I looked. Now due to stress I guess I am having a hard time not losing weight. I'm 5'9" and down to 123lbs. Looking too skinny i think. But we went out to eat everyday this week. I AM EATING!!! People are concerned.<p> My coward H went to hide behind his mother's apron. He decided not to come home with me but to stay there and "talk with his parents and sister." I told him that's fine. Whatever he wants to do. <p> I am pulling back now. Being more aloof. I have been plan aing my guts out as per Redhat's advice. I will hug him from time to time or rub his back. I know it makes him uncomfortable but I figured you attract more bees with honey than vinegar. I also know his guilt is tremendous so I want to let him know it is OK for him to hug me. Not give him the total cold shoulder. However after today I have a frost creeping over me.<p>
He told his sister that he can not handle how I am taking this so well. That i am being nice to him bothers him. He said when I touch him or he touches me his guilt is overwhelming. He told her OW told him to move out and figure out what he wanted to do. Some time apart may be good. Although I know they are e-mailing and calling each other.<p> He also told his siter right now he does not want me or our house or the life he had planned. He is not sure if he wants OW either. He does not know what he wants. He said he needed time. Maybe be by himself for a while to decide who or what he wants. But he still maintains contact with her while he cuts me off.<p> He told me I can never go to school with him in St. Kitts. He told his sister everyone there hates me now. He said he will go back alone in September (He has to reapply). And in September If I went with hiim I would see OW everyday. HE said he will see her everyday as well. Even though they will be in different classes he said it is such a small school everyone knows everyone. He asked if I really thought he was never going to see her again? Well DUH!!! He just is not willing to stand up for me in front of his new friends and he does not want his fantasy to come crashing down on him.<p> So now I am home alone. He just called to see if I got home OK. He said he would call me tomorrow (I will not talk to him). He said "I love you" My response was "Goodnight" and I hung up on him. He said he would meet me at therapy on Tuesday night (He's 2 hours away w/ his parents) He agreed to go 2 times a week, so we have an appointment on Friday as well. <p> I do not bring up A or R at anytime. But neither does he except with his family. He will not talk to me. In therapy is where i get to hear him say how he feels for about 5 minutes (My therapist sees him alone for the first 1/2 hr.) When I come back my H does not say too much. He is suppossed to come home again after therapy. Should I tell him not to?<p> Redhat- my plan A has scared him off. He told his sister he is hoping if he does not talk to me it is easier for him and by being a BAST*** he hopes I will grow to hate him and move on. I told her I can not move on until I do not love him. And once I hate him, he is in for a life of misery because I will do everything I can to destroy his life and reputation. Talk about bitter divorcee?<p> Orchid- While he has been home I do try to give him space. When his family calls and he goes outside for privacy, I get my car keys and say "It's OK hon. I understand. Take your time. I'll be back in an hour." Meanwhile he thinks I am mad. But I am not I am trying to give him space. In the morning I have been going on a 4 mile run. Some days he joins me (he was impressed by my speed and endurance! I surprised him!) I told him when I leave to go to the dump to drop off garbage or get coffee, I am leaving to give him some time and space. I told him I understand it is very hard for you. It's hard for me too. But we have to give it time. He tells his siter that it bothers him I am so calm and pleasant about the whole situation. About the offensive things in the house... Only the OW's letters and pictures are offensive. He does not have anything here since I rent the house out for the summer and all his stuff is packed at his parents.<p>Seahorse- I am SO sorry to hear about your Mum. You have been so strong through so much and now you have such a horrible burden place on top of you. Thank you for your kind words. Anything you say to me gives me solace. I do not see how you can plan A with your H around. I am having a very hard time. I can see how people get divorced after 3 weeks. But in speaking to a lawyer, she said since I am more educated than my H at this point he is entitled to my earning potential and I would have to pay him!! She said to hang in ther until a year or two after he graduates and then divorce him. I would have every reason (He has no grounds to file on me) and I would be entitled to his earning potential. she said after 2 or 3 years he may snap out of it. If I want him back I can take him. But if I don't want him I can take him to the cleaners. Which is my plan. Hang in there plan a but probably plan b from a distance for 3 more years and then BLAMO! His world will come crashing down.<p> Karma is gonna get them BOTH two fold. Sorry so long but I've been away and missed you guys. Ill be back tomorrow since I have the house all to myself (he took the dogs)
PS My sister said if he does not show up at therapy on Tuesday to call her and she will go pick his a** up and kick it back home to me where it belongs. She said she would also have to share a few choice words with his parents for protecting their little boy when he should be a man. He goes running back home to Mommy. My sister is really miffed.
Forgiver <p> So m

Forgiver,<p>I am really proud of you [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . You did it by the book !!!, it tooks courage and strength to be able to do that.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>He told his sister that he can not handle how I am taking this so well. That i am being nice to him bothers him. He said when I touch him or he touches me his guilt is overwhelming. He told her OW told him to move out and figure out what he wanted to do. Some time apart may be good. Although I know they are e-mailing and calling each other.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's called LOVE ... it is normal under the fog WS could not see that. Just keep doing what you do and don't push it. When the fog clears up, H will understand how deep your love for him. Hope that it is not too late, it will be his loss.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>He also told his siter right now he does not want me or our house or the life he had planned. He is not sure if he wants OW either. He does not know what he wants. He said he needed time. Maybe be by himself for a while to decide who or what he wants. But he still maintains contact with her while he cuts me off.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Waffle, normal ... WS will try to do anything to seek his selfishness, his addiction !. Do not take it personnally, actually contact w/ OW is toward your advantage !!!!!!!. Now, let OW compete w/ you doing plan A from far [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ... I bet w/ you OW will LB'ed all over the place. The fact that OW asked him to moved out shows that OW's insecurities. Forgiver, you want your 100% of your H ... be patience, I beleive OW is no match for you [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] .<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>He told me I can never go to school with him in St. Kitts. He told his sister everyone there hates me now. He said he will go back alone in September (He has to reapply). And in September If I went with hiim I would see OW everyday. HE said he will see her everyday as well. Even though they will be in different classes he said it is such a small school everyone knows everyone. He asked if I really thought he was never going to see her again? Well DUH!!! He just is not willing to stand up for me in front of his new friends and he does not want his fantasy to come crashing down on him.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sorry to say this, probably I am influenced by my situation, IMVHO, this is when you have to make a hard and long thinking to see yourself. This is where you draw the boundry. This is the time when you apply Orchid's and wucus's advice. You do not allow H to keep disrespect you ... you have given your best. Have you done self reflection ?. This is the time !. This is the time to find out what you want and who you are. My plan C starts when my Dv finalized. I would not allow my WW to cancel the Dv unless SH could gurantee me that WW could be 1000% for me. I gave my best ... she doesn't realize that the plan C's clock is ticking. Soooo, you lists what you want ... not based on if H is willing but if H could do it. For example if you want H no contact w/ OW ... one of the ammend will be giving up his school and find other alternative or let you to go with him. Not if H willing, but H could do it ... put it down on the list. Why you have to do this and be honest w/ yourself ?. If you short change yourself now and down the road there is some difficulty in R ... you will resent your H and this will be the wall that separate you from fullfilling M.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>So now I am home alone. He just called to see if I got home OK. He said he would call me tomorrow (I will not talk to him). He said "I love you" My response was "Goodnight" and I hung up on him. He said he would meet me at therapy on Tuesday night (He's 2 hours away w/ his parents) He agreed to go 2 times a week, so we have an appointment on Friday as well.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I know you are hurting right now since you face H's selfisness w/ your own eyes. Please, you are competting with OW !. Do not do 180 degrees !. Be consistent !. Picture that after H hung up w/ you, H dial OW and talk to her. Do not drive your H to OW. You want to be as loving as possible and let H compare you with OW !!!. Keep in mind H is flying all the way home, give your self credit and you need to keep it up !!! not doing the other way around. Let H be talking how you handle this so well to OW and let OW LB'ed !.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>I do not bring up A or R at anytime. But neither does he except with his family. He will not talk to me. In therapy is where i get to hear him say how he feels for about 5 minutes (My therapist sees him alone for the first 1/2 hr.) When I come back my H does not say too much. He is suppossed to come home again after therapy. Should I tell him not to?</strong><hr></blockquote>
You are in plan A !!!, let him choose ... this is when we say let A dies naturally. Let H do what he thinks is best for him now. Don't interfere with it, just let him know you would like to have him home and spend time w/ you & the dog [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ... <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Redhat- my plan A has scared him off. He told his sister he is hoping if he does not talk to me it is easier for him and by being a BAST*** he hopes I will grow to hate him and move on. I told her I can not move on until I do not love him. And once I hate him, he is in for a life of misery because I will do everything I can to destroy his life and reputation. Talk about bitter divorcee?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Good, you have let him know that your love for H is up to him to loose it. Your plan A, a very awsome one, I do beleive that you might not need to do plan B !. First step ... self acknowledgment that H has done something wrong. Now let H find a way back ... show him by plan A'ng you guts out. Actually once you hate your H, do plan C, move to west coast (closer to Orchid) or down under (closer to seahorse) or somewhere where you don't need to have any contact of H, direct or indirect ... never look back. Why ? it is not for revenge but for your self so that there is no wall between you and the Lord. The revenge is not yours and don't fall into evil's temptation. Don't let evil wins again after implementing selfishness in your H and will have a chance to plant bitterness in your life !!!. I have a far relative that planted tough love for her H and Dv (by default, separation more than x years) but refused to be bitter (after waiting for over 12 years !!!). Now her exH calls her every day and tells her his regrets. She told him that she forgave him a long time ago but she never forgot what he did ... she only wants him to be the father of the kids (btw: none of the kids cares about him nor want to entertain his cry) nothing more and nothing less [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . Her focus now is on her grandchildrens and provide them w/ love and care. This stupid exH could get her back if he knows plan A & how to ammends this lady & repents ... !!!!.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong> ... Which is my plan. Hang in there plan a but probably plan b from a distance for 3 more years and then BLAMO! His world will come crashing down. ....</strong><hr></blockquote>
It is your choice but again do you wait 3 years for $ or for revenge or both or wait until you are out of love ?. All WS world will crashing down, if it is not here definitly will be down under [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] , definitly not where seahorse live. If it is for revenge ... the best revenge you could do is to show your strength, have a very fullfilling M and never look back ... If it is for "runs out of love", you need to plan B way before you reach that state. If it is for $, move to the states where they have a law that better protect you ... outside no-fault M and seek that possiblity w/ your lawyer and let her/him to advice you which states to go.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Karma is gonna get them BOTH two fold.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nope, I witness with my own eyes that I refused to be bitter by greediness of my family to kick me out of the company that I resurrect from its ashes. 1 year after my plan C, I have to call it off, my dad passed away and I reconcile w/ my family ... but they are so arrogant, make fun of my choice and have a stone heart ... a few years later, I do not think they got 2 folds but more than 7 folds !. Their greediness destroy them ... When I have my M problem, I saw my mom's guilt ... yes, my WW is greedy too and fault me from not "fought back" but my mom knows that their actions partially create the environment for mess this too ...<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Sorry so long but I've been away and missed you guys. Ill be back tomorrow since I have the house all to myself (he took the dogs)</strong><hr></blockquote>
Don't feel that way ... you need all the support you could have at this critical time !!!. I hope you have Orchid #, just in case ...<p><strong>Stay away from family feud ... don't try to encourage nor discourage their actions. Just listens ... you know with your plan A, every one wants to hang your H for his stupidity.</strong><p>Keep it up ... let him see the new and improved Forgiver [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ... wait until H's fog head connects how deep your love is and your plan A.<p>God Bless you -RH-

Forgiver,<p>I have been reading your posts, aching for you, and praying for you. I hope you are a Christian so that you have God's strength right now. Only God has the power to completely change hearts and minds and I am praying that He will soften your husband's heart.<p>I am reading a book right now - When Godly People Do UnGodly Things by Beth Moore. As I've been reading, I have seen some of the words you have written about your husband - his shame, his guilt, his misery. Reading this book has really helped me understand my husband better and how he felt during his affair. Reading it may even help him understand his actions, too. The last few chapters give guidelines for restoration. I really believe that satan is trying his best to destroy families. You can find this book at a Christian book store.<p>I pray that God will give you wisdom and direction during this time.

Hi Forgiver, you're coming back - I can see the Forgiver I know. You're getting there...<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Redhat- my plan A has scared him off. He told his sister he is hoping if he does not talk to me it is easier for him and by being a BAST*** he hopes I will grow to hate him and move on. I told her I can not move on until I do not love him. And once I hate him, he is in for a life of misery because I will do everything I can to destroy his life and reputation. Talk about bitter divorcee? <hr></blockquote><p>I thing that this means your plan A is actually working. He is starting to realise he might be wrong, but the Aliens won't let him admit it and are still running their own program on him.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Actually once you hate your H, do plan C, move to west coast (closer to Orchid) or down under (closer to seahorse) or somewhere where you don't need to have any contact of H <hr></blockquote><p>I hope I never see you down here for this reason, but know if you ever need to make a HUGE getaway, I'm here.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I hope you are a Christian so that you have God's strength right now. Only God has the power to completely change hearts and minds and I am praying that He will soften your husband's heart. <hr></blockquote><p>I believe god is beyond religion and is all encompassing. Pray to whatever you believe god is, ask for help and you will get it how god has planned for you to have it. <p>Love is unconditional, you have to give not expecting to recieve, then you won't be disappointed. Love even those who are mean, abusive and horrible to you, and then you can know you tried your best. (I know you know all this Forgiver, I know when everything seems overwhelming its easy to forget). Vent here.<p>I know re the weight thing, I've got a bit too skinny for my own good and everyone is at me. I was told this morning there's a difference between a skinny person and someone from Kampuchea, so I'm really trying hard to eat more. It will come back on when things settle and you're feeling better, just be extra careful that you don't pick up infections or colds as your immune system is probably compromised at the moment.<p>Don't worry about what people at Vet School think of you, they don't know you. If they did there's no question they'd love you and they're only getting one side of the story. Blow them, they mean nothing to you!<p>Look after yourself. SH