It is a fact that my H is not meeting my needs. I somehow feel mean for saying that because I am the betrayer and have done everything wrong. I feel like I don't really deserve my needs to be met because I am the bad person here. Even though I had an affair - I still met his needs. He has never felt like I haven't (he is a down to earth kinda guy - hard to explain). To sum it up - he thinks that I am the only one who needs help here. I need help in dealing with my thoughts and feelings so I won't have another affair. He has no desire to read a book, go to councelling, etc. He has told me that our marrige is exactly what he wants and cannot imagine loving anyone other than me. When I suggest things that would help - he does it but doesn't understand why he has to work on things when it is me who screwed up. Please don't take me in the wrong way here - he is loving and caring towards me and will support me thru anything. <P>My sadness and disappointment comes from our conversation last night. I read Hummingbird's list of 'things to make the other person feel loved' and directly went up to him and suggested that we try a few. I picked an easy one which was the goodmorning hug. He said okay but really didn't seem responsive. I want to talk to him about it but he doens't think that 'our marriage' has a problem. He believes that it is just me. Is this true? He did agree to do the hug thing but only because he thinks it will help my mind and heart to get back on track. I know that nobody really knows me here and I may not explain things in the best way but can anyone comment? How do I keep the lines of communication fully open when he is not making an effort?<P>Thanks, Brynn<BR> <BR>

Brynn,<P>It took me awhile to really see my H as a victim as well. He was! Yes, He committed the betrayal but He also has needs. Not all betrayers have the entire responsibility for the affair. I would venture to say that it always takes 3 to tango!!! The betrayed often don't want to see their part in the problem, mainly due to the extreme heart pain.<P>I suggest that you give your H some time to heal. But then he really needs to open his eyes and examine his side of things. You have needs, he has needs and each are just as important.<P>Are you in counseling? You need to be. Your H has his head in the sand if he thinks you can recover without examining the "Whys" of the betrayal. At first shock sets in and you can't think logically, but it has to come eventually for recovery to ever happen.<P>I wanted to kill the OW for a long time but eventually I was able to see that the problem had to start with the marriage. Keep posting and try to get your H to read some of the articles the Harley's have printed. Its a long road ahead and patience is necessary for both of you.<P>I told my H this wknd that I didn't want him to ever look for his needs to be met elsewhere again. I am the helpmate and I need to meet his needs. Believe it or not he said, "thank you". That was a milestone for us for he actually admitted that I had a part in things going wrong. The "why's" are very hard to get to but you must.<P><BR>

Brynn,<P>Your H could still be in denial about the affair, & that's why he won't go to counselling, or read any books. It's easier for him to take the stand that you're screwed up, not the marriage. And, it sounds as though he hasn't forgiven you.<P>On the other hand, I think it's very encouraging that he will eventually do the things you suggest. <P>When you approach him about one of your unmet needs, do so by telling him it's something he can do that will make you happier. Not, something that will improve the marriage. That way he won't feel threatened.

Brynn,<P>I think your H will come around, hon. Give him time, becase he isn't even healing yet, it sounds like he's still bleeding. It's hard when H sees the problem as being all yours to own. I agree with Taj to an extent when she said it takes three to tango. <P>It's hard right now to explain to H what exactly your needs are when you're not sure yourself what drew you into the affair to begin with. But once you start realizing them, that's the first step. You really do need to know that he's trying too. I just think he needs some time to be angry right now, and that pushing him too hard in the meeting needs dept may not be the way to go. <P>As for the big question are all the problems in the marriage OURS? Well, hell, you'd think so sometimes, huh? To be entirely candid, I feel that the majority of the issues in our marriage do stem from things I'm dealing with. Basically, My H is considerably more emotionally mature than I am in many ways, and I have a huge probelm with my self-esteem. So, a lot branches from that. It's really hard to admit, but since I have, I kinda feel relieved and sad all at the same time and I'm ready to work on those issues. Not that H hasn't pulled his fair share of crap on me. BUt that's just us.<P>Brynn, The important thing you can try to remember right now is (after you've calmed down) the things that are GOOD about your marriage. WHen he does something nice for you, savor it. WHen there is a sweet, happy moment that you share, savor that too. It's really all you have right now.<P>Khyra

Hi guys, I am a betrayed H, and I fully know my part. I left my W basically out in the desert. Over about a 2 yr time span, I was not meeting her needs hardly at all, she was lonely, having problems with our teenage daughter and I was not being a leader either.So i put her in a vulnerable emotional position, and Mr. OM came by....said the right things, made her feel special ,loved, all he wanted was sex,(his need was not being met in his marriage) she is rather naive!<BR>It took some hard fact revealation from me and another Christiam friend explaining to her about testosterone and men and conquering, and ego...etc. I think she gets it now. She just wanted "a friend" someone who would listen, other women understand, she could not see this for awhile. Does now.<BR><P>------------------<BR>jnvc<P>

Don't know how much you have kept up with Hummingbird, but if you search on her name and compare how she first posted about her husband and marriage, to what she posts now, I think you will find she has made much progress.<P>For your H to say your marriage is what he wants and he can't imagine loving anyone but you is an extraordinary thing.<P>He must be contented and you must be meeting his needs. It could be that his needs are few or they just happen to be what you are best at giving. He sounds like a nice, maybe kind of clueless (emotionally) kind of guy. Although my H was the betrayer in a very brief affair, he has a hard time "getting a clue" when it comes to meeting my needs. Actually the affair, which he regrets, really was a motivator to try to understand and meet my needs, although he wouldn't label it that way. It has been a long and sometimes laughable road on his journey to the land of the clued. But he is getting there. And I can tell you I would much rather have a nice guy that loves me and is trying than some suave manipulative Romeo.<P>So don't count him out, but just telling him he needs to meet your needs, etc...especially if he is hurting, probibly will not have the desired effect you are going for.<P>It is almost always more successful to change ourselves than to change another. The beauty is that any changes in approach you take will have an effect on the relationship and ultimately on him.<P>Consider reading the book by Susan Page How One of You Can Bring the Two of You Together. Hummingbird has read it and so has Dazed & Confused, who has what she calls a somewhat emotionally stunted H.<P>Best of luck<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

You all make so much sence. I sometimes have a hard time understand what I am feeling and thinking but when I read the responses to my post - the lights go on.<P>Khyra - thanks again for your words. I always scroll down to your name when I see it because I know that I 'click' when I hear you explain things. Any yes, I am still trying to figure out what drew me to the EA.<P>I feel that my H's needs are being met and he always clarifies this for me. Like I said before, he is a 'simple' man and I do think his needs are few. I do love him and it shows. Some things are still in the elementary stages like hugging every morning and telling him that I appreciate and notice the 'little things' that he does for me.<P>I understand that he is still hurting but his lack of wanting to deal with things scare me. He doesn't want to know anything about my EA or about the man that I had it with. All he wants to know is that it is over. He doens't want to explore the WHY's. I don't want to push but when is a good time to bring things up. He said that he just wants time and time will help things to heal. Can he get thru the pain with just time???<P>One day at a time I guess,<BR>Brynn

I understand you want your H to understand and meet your needs.<P>However, explaining the affair in terms of how it met your needs when your H failed may be viewed as plain old cruel to him.<P>If he doesn't want to talk about the affair, fine. Once you have a few visuals in your mind, it is almost impossible to delete them. If your H doesn't want them to begin with, great.<P>If you are pushing him to change, you may be making him feel deficient. Pile on the pain of the affair and it could be excruciating.<P>Whether or not you think he doesn't measure up, applying pain and pressure to the situation will not help you accomplish your goal. Change yourself, change the situation, accept or reinterpret parts of your relationship...and you might find the above combo will result in your H changing as well.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Faith Hope Love,<BR>Thanks for your post. I am trying to understand how a betrayed man feels - how my H feels (you pointed it out). I don't for one second want to tell him how OM met my needs. I don't even want to discuss the relationship that I had with OM. I just want 'us' to work on us. I guess I have to let him deal with things in his own way and at his own pace. I thought that the best thing would be is to 'get it all out'. I am not willing to tell him everything in all full detail because that would hurt him for life. I guess how he is dealing with things is a good way??? Should I be scared for later when it all blows??? Should I just be grateful for his ability to cope??? Should I just try to mend things on my own and in my own heart cuz time will heal his???<P>Brynn

Brynn, <BR>Your H sounds a lot like me ! I was pretty naive about this whole needs thing, both my wifes as well as mine. <P>I knew she was not happy but had no clue as to why or how to find out, so I just started to withdraw from her and her from me.<P>She met om at work who filled her needs for conversation and sharing and that became the affair.<P>The affair shocked me enough that I did a lot of reading and learned about female needs. Thru counseling I am learning about my needs too.<P>Two good books are:<BR>Love Life for Every Married Couple by Ed Wheat, MD.<P>Surviving An Affair by Harley.<P>He needs to read these. My w told me 2 yrs ago that some guy was flirting with her and she liked it. I never did anything about it, like trying to find out why she liked it. Only thing I did do was cut out a friend of mine that took up alot of time, but never did anything about us or our marriage and now it is out the door.<P>Hang in there !!<P>God Bless!<P>------------------<BR>"You can't always get what you want! But if you try real hard,you might just find, you get what you need!"<BR>Mick Jagger

My H and I read both of the books RWD mentioned together, within a month or two of the affair.<P>You can get much of the needs and even the questioneer (spelling) off of this site.<P>Dr. Wheat's book was outstanding for us. We are Christian, but the five types of married love apply to anyone.<P>My H even said he wished we would have read this stuff years ago.<P>Don't know what you H's attention level is (my H has limited attention), but I would always read ahead and edit, so he wouldn't get restless. Just a suggestion.<P>Another book I absolutely loved is The Heart of Commitment by Scott Stanley. <P>You may also like Fighting for Your Marriage...a group of authors including Stanley. I'm thinking you may really be a tinge guilty of misinterpreting your H and downplaying his good points and magnifying his shortcomings.<P>I am a great believer in any fault has a flip side that is a strength. Usually the greater the fault, the more positive the strength. Of course abuse does not count.<P>Since I don't know your H, I don't know how he would heal best. Concentrating on improving our relationship together really helped H and I heal. We read in bed a little each night for a long time.<P>We probibly have talked about the affair itself a total of a few hours in almost a year...and we are doing very well. Remember to shower your H with love and respect. Even if he doesn't show his pain, it has got to be there. You really can't take his pain away, but you can make the present pleasant!<P>In fact, knock on wood, I though the Christmas season would be difficult because he had his brief affair during it, but things are so good (and I am so busy) it has been OK so far.<P>Best of luck!<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Dear brynn,<P>Marriage is a 2-way street & your H is also responsible for it, but probably he thinks that you may do it again & he's probably right (your profile mentions 3 times in your marriage, one without him knowing).<P>Yesterday I placed a post "I am a betrayer too" (it's the one I was complaining about because nobody answered). My intentions to cheat were always there- still are. My cheating has being just in my mind but not less real (first one thinks, then acts).<P>Probably what I'm trying to say is that temptations are always out there but it's up to us to think first and take full responsibility of our own actions... else we'd be like the one who wants to lose weight & keeps eating chocolate.<P>I don't want to sound too harsh, but you have a double load on your shoulders; one being to heal yourself & the other one convincing you H that he needs to heal too.<P>I hope & pray for your happiness & that of your family.<P>Alex<P>------------------<BR>Live and learn<p>[This message has been edited by ThisAlex (edited December 15, 1999).]

Hi Brynn,<P>I read your post and felt the need to answer. Your needs were not being met so the affair was given the opportunity to begin. Your husband must face this fact and own up to his responsabilities in the marriage. Your needs are as important to the welfare of the marriage as his needs are. <P>He is very lucky to have all of his need met by you. Does he have the faintest idea what you primary needs are in the marriage? My husband did not know what mine where and he was quite surprised to find what they were. He didn't until after reading Dr. Harley's book HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS. Without that book and Dr. Harley's site filled with advise our marriage probably wouldn't stand the chance that it has today.<P>I was the betrayed, but I take full responsability for how I contributed to H's straying. I rejected him when he needed me the most. My love busting was a full time job. I did not meet his needs. His decision was wrong to have had an affair and I will not stand for it again, but we have learned so much together since the affair, I am hoping that there is NEVER chance of an affair happening again.

I think you are secretly married to my H!<P>He does not want to address EA, which is fine with me, cuz the OM is not the issue. The issue is that I'm not happy with the state of our relationship. But I feel like the bad guy since H always says he is happy the way things are.<BR>If you are not already, I suggest counseling. Had my first session last night (H didn't go) and I feel so much better. Yes, it is me who has the problem so to speak, but when one person is not happy, the couple as a whole will suffer. H does not get the emotional needs thing, and rather than beat a dead horse, I am going to stop trying to explain, and start making plans together on what we can do to make things better. H not enthusiastic, but we'll see how it goes. Each partner needs to put in 50%. If we can do that, we can get back to where we're supposed to be.

Hi Brynn,<P>I don't have any great words of wisdom or advice. Like your H, i'm the betrayed. However, I envy him for having a spouse who wants to work on the marriage. What i would give if my W were acting as you are. I think the keyword for you should be patience. I know the frustrations of having a spouse who doesn't communicate well and it can drive you crazy. Give him time, but don't internalize everything. Keep talking to him.<BR>I wish you the best. <P>