Hiya Forgiver, I am planning to go to Vanuatu - an Island called Santo. I will do my advanced cert and dive the President Coolidge which I hear is a bit of a 'Mecca' for divers. I'll look into those camera parts. Boy this plan A stuff can get expensive, I've got to buy camera gear, a bike helmet, fins...

Keeping up with you Liz,<p>Wow, you are doing the BEST PLAN A I have ever seen!!!!!! Even though it is expensive, lol!<p>Improving yourself to the point of swimming with SHARKS, so he can see you enjoying yourself is great.......BUT also it is great for YOU whatever happens.<p>I am impressed he turned up to watch, and also his comment about trying. GOOD WORK!!!!!! You have definetly got that man thinking!!!<p>Good on yer luv!!!!!!!<p>Love and light,<p>Jacky

Well Liz, you seem to have gotten a boost from your last few contacts with H. I come back from vacation and you are very positive about things again. I am glad for you. <p>I liked his comment about working on your marriage. Remember that he doesn't know what you know. I suspect that to him, just spending time with you again means that he is working on it. Even if he has been exposed to some of the material, it's not the same as you. You have put heart and soul into saving your marriage and you have come a long way. He still has a long way to go if he wants to catch you. I am glad you are still waiting for him. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I thought a lot about 'why?' and know its really a futile question, but the best explanation I can find for these crises (until I get the real deal from God) is that its so you seek help from God, it brings you back to God, he prompts you to seek your purpose in life and to look to him and ask him for guidance. But we all have a choice. Most of us here has chosen the 'road less travelled' and meet the challenge, others are not ready. Right or wrong, crises will keep coming until you choose to look at yourself or until God's finished with ya. <hr></blockquote><p>The scriptures talk about our life as the "refiners fire." We are purified and improved much as gold or silver in the fire. All the impurities are burned out and we come out better for it. God doesn't cause it, but he does let it happen, and so we are improved. Some say we should be happy for the fire, but that is a little hard to wish for. However, you can be happy that you are coming out of the fire improved and purified, and not melted and destroyed and ruined. It shows what you are worth. <p>You are sometimes to the point where you can think about your experiences and examine them, and not just react to them. That is a good thing. To me, it means you are getting positive learning experiences out of this mess. I say again - as have many others - Good for you. <p>The bad days will still come ( sorry to remind you yet again - ) but just do as you have learned to do, and make it work anyway. Keep working on Husband, the fire will work it's magic on him too, and he will either melt or become purified along with you. Hope he doesn't melt. <p>SS

Hi NT and SS, Jacky I haven't heard from you fom ages, it must be bloody cold down there, because its bloody cold up here! Notice your H is still his usual self, poor fella, its gonna hit him like a train one day, but that's not you're problem now, its OW.<p>SS you alway have great words of encouragement and insight and I very much appreciate your posts, everyone's posts, this place is like going to the coffee shop and meeting your friends. Its like coming home in a way.<p>I've no update on H, he's been away on business and is coming back tommorrow. He's supposed to be coming Sunday night for a 'sleep-over' (we have a public holiday on monday), but as usual, I never get my hopes too high, just in case...<p>Going for some tea...back now<p>I often wonder how it will feel if I have to one day say goodbye to H, its not as scary as before, but it does make me sad. I keep praying that he will find peace. I'm tempted to pray to God to bring him back, but there's no point unless that's God's plan and H's choice.<p>SS I thought that was an interesting comment actually about H thinking just being together is working on our marriage, and probably you're right. I think I have to introduce him slowly to the concept that its going to take a bit of time and effort. <p>I don't want to rush him and have no intention to, I can't rush anything for my own sake anyway, but I would like to give him something to read. Maybe HNHN or the Five love languages would be a good start, or even just some short printout from this website, you know just to see what his thoughts are. <p>As I said I won't rush it, I'm having fun just being with him and I think him me, time will tell really. Until such time, I keep going and plan Aing and be just happy being. I even though some days are a real struggle and painful, there are starting to be more and more happy times and less sad. My happiness no longer depends on my H, but he can make me happy.

Not feeling so great now, H just rang, he's not staying the night, he said he's been thinking about it and he's just not ready. I think its bull**** and he's meeting her. <p>Maybe I am ready for plan b, I told him not to come out if he dosen't want to but he says he wants to see me. I feel he just got a better offer for tonight, and as usual we'll just dump the piece of trash waiting at home and pick it up later.<p>You know what, I'm really tired of being no 2. I'm going to press him about what's he's doing, and if I don't get the right answer then this time in two weeks I'll be in plan B.<p>I feel so good about myself right now and he just brought me down and I'm tired of it. I see what you mean now. I have to do this before I start LBing, because I can see that's what will happen. <p>****, I didn't want to do this, but now I don't think I have a choice. <p>I'll update you after he leaves. Maybe you can give me some advice?

So he's gone now, gone to her I suppose. <p>I asked him if he was still seeing her, I asked him not to lie. I said that I've let him go, so why lie about it anymore, he said he's still in contact. I told him I love him so much and that I want to be with him, but I cannot wait too much longer and that I'm prepared to walk away if I have to. He said he liked me but he was still ****ed up and the Ow was a 'nice girl', wow that's what he said about me a few weeks ago, so we're even, aren't I lucky, I've crawled up to even.<p>Anyway the conversation basically followed this for a while and in the end he gave me a big hug, it was still nice, but its not enough. I love this person so much, but he's not committing really, he's just stalling. Yes, its as much as he can commit, but I think I need more now.<p>It really hurts, I'll be OK, I'm just sad for now, and disappointed. Do I keep plan aing or go to plan B. I know if I B I'll never see him again...<p>[ June 09, 2002: Message edited by: Seahorse ]<p>[ June 09, 2002: Message edited by: Seahorse ]</p>

(((((((((((seahorse)))))))))))<p>Plan B is for self-protection, and if the hurting is getting too bad, then it is time. For me, the crunch came when I knew he was still seeing her after five months separation. (I had no admission, but irrefutable proof when his cell phone accidentally went on in his car, and he was with her....it was taped on the answering machine [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] . So I wrote the Plan B letter, telling him the Plan B standards.<p>Well, for me it didn't make any difference in his behaviour for a long time; he did get down off the fence, but on HER side of it. But by then, I was able to cope with it. You see, I had distanced myself by using Plan B, and it may have hurt, I won't deny it, but it didn't hurt a LOT. I was and still am getting over him.<p>When you enter Plan B, it can be a wake up call for the H to make his decision as to what side of the fence he wants to jump to. You have to be prepared for the possibility that it won't be your side. But time and again on these boards I have seen great results from a strong Plan B, in that it sends the WS's into a panic. It did that for my stbx too, he started calling at odd times, and still does, thinking I will answer the phone. But I don't fall for that now. They just can't come to grips with NO CONTACT, unless finished with the OP.<p>I have told you before Seahorse, that you will KNOW, without a single doubt, when you are ready for Plan B. Trust yourself, and you will be making the right decision.<p>Love and light,<p>Jacky

Hi Jacky and thanks, yep, deep down I know its time. I'm really scared to do it, but I'm scared not to as well. I know if it keeps going like this I will put more and more pressure on him to decide. This way I am removing all presure from my end, it will be his own pressure. <p>I know he cares about me, but to be honest, if he really wanted to be with me, it wouldn't be so hard to decide. Sure, its fog, but what if the fog is him now? I'm pretty sure the friend's he's living with are influencing him too.<p>I don't think there is much more I can do actually. He sees the changes, he knows I love him and want to be with him. He says that he's trying to make a decision for the next 50 years. I'm trying to decide what to do for today. <p>I'll post a plan B letter soon and my idea of how the plan will work. I'll get some feedback from all of you if I can. For now, I'm just going to get thru today and will take life as it comes.<p>It just hurts so much. I've been crying all day. I haven't been like this for ages. I so badly want him to tell me he'll try. I can't believe its come to this. I can't do anything I'm just a mess. I can't stop crying<p>SH<p>[ June 09, 2002: Message edited by: Seahorse ]</p>

Please read my plan B letter and give me some feedback.<p>Dear H,<p>You know I love you and adore you with my heart, my mind and my body. When we married I thought it would be forever and have never considered that we would be apart one day. The thought that we may not grow old together truly pains me. We have had great times and we had bad times, but we had each other and for 10 wonderful years it was enough.<p>I know we had problems. You have told me that I tried to control you, that I rejected your love by rejecting sex with you. You did not like that I was not independent and had ceased listening to you. I cannot change the past H, but I have learnt from my mistakes and I sincerely apologize to you. You know I have changed, you said you have noticed the changes in me. I am making them permanent and improving myself and my life. I am a better person. I make mistakes every day, but everyday I strive to be the best person I can be.<p>I have thought a lot about our marriage, our current situation and about where we are going. You know my thoughts and feelings. I love you, I want to be with you and work on making our marriage the best ever. I cannot guarantee it will last 50 years or 5 years, but I know that when we try together we do good. I am ready H, not to live together but to work wholeheartedly on our marriage. I commit to you and our marriage. We need help, we need counselling but it takes two of us, I cannot do it alone.<p>You have told me you need more time and that you are very confused. I feel so much for you as I know this is very difficult. You are at a crossroads in your life and feel that today&#8217;s decision will affect the rest of your life. Some decision are tough and are scary, but noone said life would be breezy, its supposed to be hard and painful. Then the easy times are even more delightful. I respect that you have taken time to think about your life.<p>However, you have chosen to spend time with one specific woman and possibly other. You have told me you are still in contact with her and like her. I do not condone it, or like it, but have no choice. You are the only person who can make choices for you and I will respect your decision. I hope that you will be happy in whatever you chose and that you find peace. You are my friend, my lover and my husband. I only want true happiness for you and do not wish any harm or ill to you.<p>To preserve the love I have for you and my own sanity I have come to a decision of my own. I need to stop seeing you until you decide one way or the other. The current situation is becoming extremely stressful and hurtful for me. This is not an ultimatum or a threat, it is simply &#8216;no contact&#8217;. I know that I risk loosing you forever, but I cannot continue to see you without putting pressure on you to make a decision. If you choose to come back and work on our marriage, I want to know that you have done it because you love me, not because you have felt pressured into doing it. <p>Please respect my decision and do not contact me unless it is an emergency. If you need to access the house or spend time with the dog, please contact me and I will arrange to have the house available to you at a time I am not there and will leave the alarm off. )I have changed the alarm code, so please do not access the house and set off the alarm). <p>I will continue to work towards moving from this house and will contact you should any particular emergency arise. All financial information will now be handled by my lawyer who will be in contact to arrange a financial separation. This can easily be reversed if you decide you can commit to me. Otherwise I think this will be for the best. I do not wish to work out financial arrangements with you directly as I feel that it will be too hurtful and stressful for both of us.<p>I hope with all my heart and soul that you will come back to me one day. Please make Om or Angie or any other woman aware that I am your wife and that I want to work on our marriage. Please be honest with yourself, with me and them. <p>I love you H, you will always be very special to me. I look back through our life and I chose now to only remember the good times and learn from the bad. I forgive whatever pain you have caused me and hope that in time you will forgive me too. <p>I hope we will be together again one day.<p>Your wife <p>Seahorse<p>Just a quick add on. I rang him about an hour ago and asked him if we would go to counselling. He said he would think about it. I asked for an answer in the next couple of days. I will need an answer on Wednesday. If its yes - no plan B, if its no....<p>[ June 10, 2002: Message edited by: Seahorse ]</p>

Liz - I replied to your post on GQII.<p>Let's "talk" some more about if/when to go to Plan B. Ideally, you should do it after a period of pristine Plan A.<p>Dave

Oh, Liz, <p>I had not read this (your last few posts) when I responded to your plan B letter on GQII. <p>I wish I had read this first. I will leave that alone and just post some more here. <p>First, you were afraid that he was going to meet her instead of coming to see you. Unless he has confirmed that, you don't know it. Don't always think the worst. For some reason, we have times when we do that. <p>If you have time to read this post, it may help you understand differences in where you are, and where H is. It is long but I think it has some very good lessons.
Fears, Training spouse to meet needs <p>H has a long way to go before he will under stand you. It may take years, even if he wants to reconcile and if he says " here I am, I want to do whatever it takes. " <p>Also, H is afraid. You have grown so much that you may have forgotten that he had issues with you also. Were they valid? ( I am not saying he was or is justified in what he did, he is not, will never by.) He still has all this in his mind, to him, your changes are not real yet. He still knows the old you. When he said he was not ready, he may very well have been telling the truth. <p>Now, he may have been making excuses, but like I said, unless you know that, don't always assume the worst. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Maybe I am ready for plan b, I told him not to come out if he doesn't want to but he says he wants to see me. I feel he just got a better offer for tonight, and as usual we'll just dump the piece of trash waiting at home and pick it up later. <hr></blockquote><p>He wouldn't come if he thought you were a piece of trash. We all know what you are, and you do too, you are a great lady. If there was ever a caterpillar transformed into a butterfly, it is you. Please don't say these negative things about yourself. They are simply not true. <p>If you have read the above referenced thread, you will under stand this request.
Between now and when you feel you need to start plan B - tell him what you need. Now think about this, there are things he can and will give. ( hugs for one) Tell him what you need that you think he will do. Let him start giving to you. <p>" Hon, I realize you aren't ready to come back yet, but I need some help. I feel things are slipping away, please do some things to bring me part way back. Take me out on a date or , give me a hug, now give me another one, or kiss me tenderly, or passionately." You know what will work. Ask him. I bet he will help. <p>He needs training, you need help, ask him for it, and tell him how to do it. See if he responds. Give him a chance to make some deposits in your LB$. <p>Now, don't get too excited if he responds, or too sad if he is slow. You know what fog is. <p>When you are ready, go to B, but try some things first. He is already broken, you aren't going to hurt him any more than he already is by trying something new, or by plan B for that matter. <p>At one point, you said you didn't really know about God. Try this, get on your knees, close your eyes, say " Oh, God, are you really there, I need help. You should have strong feelings of love come to you. Tell him what you think about all of this, ask him to help you. I have done this so many times, and received the feelings of love so strong , and gotten so much help, that I cannot doubt. It can be a great source of strength to you. I hope you get the help you need. I feel you will. <p>Don't feel bad about crying. I do it to and I am an old mean guy. It is a good way to release our feelings. Why do you think we are able to do it? It is therapy. <p>Well, I sometimes go on and on, hope this helps. By now you have been back at work, and the weekend is behind, you don't have as much time to think or feel sorry. Don't regret your feelings. Just do as well as you can and go forward. <p>See ya,
SS<p>[ June 10, 2002: Message edited by: still seeking ]<p>[ June 10, 2002: Message edited by: still seeking ]</p>

Hello All, thanks for replying. <p>I am very stressed and yes, SS I have been depressed for a few days now. I am dealing with a tricky situation at work. I am standing up for myself. Its all part of plan A in a way, its all part of a new me. I have been very angry, they are pushing me to take on work that I cannot cope with. I am normally highly productive and do more than my fair share, but then if I hadn't lost a husband and a mother maybe I could cope, but I am emotionally exhausted and they have to understand that I cannot cope with my normal workload right now.<p>The staff counsellor is involved, she is supporting me and suggested that I am angry because there is a new Liz in town (assertive), but at work she is operating in old Liz mode (non-assertive), thus the anger. I have identified that if I don't express my anger properly I get depressed. <p>H's non-commital was a disappointment and added fuel to the depression. I think that I interpreted what he was saying in a previous conversation incorrectly. To him, being together is working on our marriage (as you suggested SS). He cannot commit further than that. I expected too much and got my hopes too high. I have asked him about counselling, he said he would think about it. I have asked for an answer in the next couple of days. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Also, H is afraid. You have grown so much that you may have forgotten that he had issues with you also. Were they valid? ( I am not saying he was or is justified in what he did, he is not, will never by.) He still has all this in his mind, to him, your changes are not real yet. He still knows the old you. When he said he was not ready, he may very well have been telling the truth. <hr></blockquote><p>Yes, too me its all different now, I had forgotten that to him I have to prove myself. His issues are valid, although I can see that he too played a role in it, but yes, I can see that I was not meeting his needs and lovebusting. I feel very badly and remorseful about it. I want to show him I have changed, I want the changes to be permanent. I don't want him to move home or have a full on relationship, but I need something to keep going. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> If you have read the above referenced thread, you will under stand this request.
Between now and when you feel you need to start plan B - tell him what you need. Now think about this, there are things he can and will give. ( hugs for one) Tell him what you need that you think he will do. Let him start giving to you.
<hr></blockquote><p>I will read the thread at home (I'm at work) I have asked for him to attend counselling. I need him to at least try. He does do things for me. He helped in the garden, he comes out to see me (it takes about an hour to get here). He does fulfill most of my needs, mostly he always did. I feel angry when he disappoints me, I hate that I wonder if he's going to see her. I hate thinking about it and try to wipe it from my mind. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> " Hon, I realize you aren't ready to come back yet, but I need some help. I feel things are slipping away, please do some things to bring me part way back. Take me out on a date or , give me a hug, now give me another one, or kiss me tenderly, or passionately." You know what will work. Ask him. I bet he will help. <hr></blockquote><p>Yes, I will do that, I will do anything not to go to plan B or walk away. I do believe that he loves me. Its just this stupid fog stopping him. He's really really scared. But as I have been elevated to a 'nice person', she has also been demoted to the same. We're even, part of me says I should be celebrating, but the other part is so sad its come to this.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> At one point, you said you didn't really know about God. Try this, get on your knees, close your eyes, say " Oh, God, are you really there, I need help. You should have strong feelings of love come to you. Tell him what you think about all of this, ask him to help you. I have done this so many times, and received the feelings of love so strong , and gotten so much help, that I cannot doubt. It can be a great source of strength to you. I hope you get the help you need. I feel you will. <hr></blockquote><p>SS, before all this happened I had all but given up on God. I was raised a Catholic and mum's funeral was the first time I'd stepped into the church for some years. I do believe in God, but I don't consider myself to be a Catholic or want to return to being one.<p>I have called out to God so many times in the last few months, everytime I write in my diary I write a prayer now. I thank God for the advances that happen, even small ones. I beg God for guidance and to lift the pain. It works. I wonder if God has sent this challenge so that I return to him. It was not until mum's death that I really seriously considered this. Someone's profile says 'God will not give me more than I can handle' I think God has given me more than I can handle so that I turn to him. Its the only way I can explain this without being bitter.<p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Don't feel bad about crying. I do it to and I am an old mean guy. It is a good way to release our feelings. Why do you think we are able to do it? It is therapy. Well, I sometimes go on and on, hope this helps. By now you have been back at work, and the weekend is behind, you don't have as much time to think or feel sorry. Don't regret your feelings. Just do as well as you can and go forward. <hr></blockquote><p>Yes, I cried a lot this weekend. I know it either comes out or kills me. H always said I thought too much, my overactive mind can get the better of me, if I don't keep it in check.<p>I don't care if you are young, old, black, white or green, I can't get through this alone.<p>I cannot afford to do the telephone counselling with Harley's as the exchange rate makes its so expensive. So I got up at 4am this morning and rang the radio station and spoke to Bill Harley about this. There were a couple of suggestions: Plan B should start when you feel that plan A is at its best - it was a week ago, but its not right now.
Plan B should start when plan A is affecting your health-nearly there, he said the weight loss and not sleeping properly were good indications.
Most women stay in plan A for about 3 weeks - I've lasted 4.5months.<p>With all this in mind. I am still at plan B point. I know I cannot keep going, but I know I want to make sure I have absolutely exhausted every possibility, I need to know I've tried everything.<p>I did rewrite the plan B letter, but will save it for another post. I am waiting for H's answer re counselling. <p>I am doing better today, although I am finding it hard to concentrate at work. I have bellydancing tonight, it always lifts my spirits.<p>Just a couple other things now I'm at home. He sent an email this morning in reply to something I sent. I put on it 'love seahorse', his came back with 'love H'. Am I reading to much into this? I've not heard or seen the word 'love' from him for four and a half months. Do I take it as a slip of the fingers on the keyboard, do I take it as stalling or just take it and not even try to figure it out?<p>I contacted an organisation called Retrouvaille today. They run workshops and weekends to recover marriages. I told the lady who contacted me my situation, she told me she was in such a situation with her husband many years ago. She has been married 40 years and this happened when they were married 21 years. She said that they tried counselling, but basically nothing worked until she ceased contact with him. It took six months for the affair to die and they eventually got back together. She told me to try counselling, it may be enough, but in her situation, it didn't work. The only thing that worked was 'no contact'. She basically did the MB thing, but there was no MB then. She did a plan A then a plan B. She said she would send me info and I could contact her if needed. I feel very alone, because basically most of my support network feels I should 'get rid of him anyway'. I have two friends who seem to support me. <p>I am so confused in my mind. Its fear, I don't want to do it, but I know it will come eventually, its just when. I know that after the discussions we had on the weekend re the relationship it would not be the optimum time to plan B. Its his birthday on Sunday I was going to get him a nice present and hopefully spend the day with him and maybe do it one day next week. If this plan dosen't work, then it may have to be delayed. Oh dear, I'm in a real mess. I feel like I brought this whole thing on, because I was too stubborn. <p>[ June 11, 2002: Message edited by: Seahorse ]<p>[ June 11, 2002: Message edited by: Seahorse ]</p>

Liz - please stop beating yourself up. You're just like the rest of us - a flawed and imperfect person. We all contributed to our situations, but you have looked in the mirror and identified areas for improvement and you've impressed us all.<p>You are a better Liz.<p>Please stand tall and proud.<p>Dave

Hi Liz,
Dave is right, don't beat yourself up over it. At least you are working on it. <p>About the Love H in the e-mail. If he stopped using it on purpose, I don't believe he started by accident. He knows what he is doing. Take it as a positive sign. BUT, and this is a big one, don't take all these small positive signs as proof that he is fixed. He is still broken and needs a lot of work. <p>Did you know you were getting a fix-er-upper when you married him? Maybe you ought to tell whoever preformed your marriage that you want a warranty refund. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Liz, we can see after a while who will be Ok and you will be OK. Is this Gods way of bringing you back? My oldest son was in a car accident in Dec, he broke his neck and his shoulder but is healed and went back to work 2 weeks ago. He says it was Gods wake up call to him. ( he had been doing some things he knew were wrong.) He is changing his life, and that is good. I wish he had not needed such a shock but the end result has been good. <p>I can't tell if this is the case for you, but if the end result is good, you probably won't complain about it after a few years. Hold on to your faith in God, it is real. This I know. <p>
SS

Hi Dave and SS, the last fews days have been bad for me emotionally, as I said work isn't helping, but I'm addressing that. I don't often beat myself up over this, but every now and then I get attack of the guilties, and the possibility of plan b makes me wish I had been a better wife. I am trying to lift myself out of this. I discussed this cycle of up and down with my counsellor last Sunday and she indicated it was normal, as long as I could get out of it and it didn't last too long. The logical, scientific part of my brain is trying to kick in and talk the other parts back to 'normality'. I'm trying to tell you 'I'll get there'.<p>I tested the water with H and sent a fun email with 'love SH' on it, and got a 'love H' again. It may be a good sign, I would like to think it is, but I'm scared to get excited about anything right now.<p>SS, I knew my husband had flaws when I married him, but I never new I'd be sending him away for a total recondition and computer replacement.<p>So, now just waiting for an answer re counselling... <p>I have a dinner on Friday with a friend from work who has been pretty supportive. She told me there would be about 10-15 people - all divers with great stories to tell. I'm really looking forward too it, it will help me immensely right now.<p>SH

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> The logical, scientific part of my brain is trying to kick in and talk the other parts back to 'normality'. <hr></blockquote><p>If you ever figure out how to do it, let me know. I have been trying to get back to normal for years. But then, perhaps I don't have a normal to get back to. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I bet that being with a bunch of divers and telling stories will help a lot. Have a great time. <p>Hope you get things setteled at work, you have enough problems without problems there also.
See You later,
SS

Work is ongoing, but I know I have to start standing up for myself, its been an ongoing promblem that must be address, and has some hand in my M problems (mainly relating to stress=no thinking about sex= no sex, etc, etc).<p>Anyway, H is meeting me Saturday for lunch, its his birthday on Sunday so I've got to get a nice pressie for him. I've got a few ideas. I will ask him re the counselling then, I've given him plenty of time to think about it. <p>I will keep you posted.

Hi Seahorse -- I just wanted to tell you that you are AMAZING. You have done a great plan A so far and if your marriage doesn't work out (which I think it will because you appear to be a great person/now if your WH can just get his head out of his rump) I wanted to let you know that my sister met her husband in a diving cert class.<p>My WH told me today that he wants to come home and try to work it out. LOTS of work ahead, but I wanted to let you know this because we have roughly the same d-day and my WH moved out and was waffling/continuing the A (yuck, yuck, yuck). When I've been down and having a hard time doing plan A; I come here and read and read your posts. I too have made lots of changes that have really surprise my WH.<p>Jennifer Harley Chalmers was counseling me to go to plan B, but she also had me write an I desire letter that spelled out what I wanted out of a new marriage and what "trying to work on marriage" meant to me. WH mulled this over for two weeks and today tells me he wants to come home and try. The Idesire letter is imbedded in the text of my post over on Gen QII today.<p>I am thinking about you and hoping for the best. You GO GIRL [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

Hi Unsureheart and SS.<p>SS, you have a good point, what the hell is normality anyway? I don't know what normal is now that you mention it. I'll settle with 'relaxed and happy'.<p>Unsureheart, this letter is a great idea. I can't do it for this weekend - printer problems, but I can certainly do it and post it to his house next week. The conversation I had with him on the weekend sounded very much like the one you had with your H, I didn't say it but I think he realises I can't continue like this much longer.<p>A lot of people tell me they met their H/W while diving. It is a great place to meet men, there are more men than women who do this sport. Its just that I want to take my H diving. I want him to be my diving buddy. I sure hope he does get that head out of his rump - as you so eloquently put it!!! <p>I will give it ago and post the letter here as usual. I have got a second draft plan B letter ready, and will post that here too. <p>But I've got other priorities first. Yes, he is second on my list at the moment. He'll just have to wait there for a minute or two while I organise myself and the rest of my life. I'm a busy woman you know!!<p>SS, you know how we talked about praying to God and asking for help? I have done that for a week or so constantly now, and Unsureheart's post suddenly appeared. I don't want to get my hopes too high, but maybe this is a sign to just try a couple of more things before the 'Big B'... Just a thought I guess time will tell.<p>SH<p>[ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: Seahorse ]</p>

Seahorse -- I'm thinking about you today and hoping things are going better at work. WH came over last night to fix the sprinkler system and it was pleasant, but no discussion. Hard for me to keep my mouth shut as I am impatient, but I did want to honor his request that we not get into the moving back home discussion until after I read his letter. He wrote his own "what I desire from our marriage" letter that he is going to give me next week when I get back from my mini-vacation this weekend (good food, good friends and a day at a spa/can't wait). <p>In the past, I would have tried to engage in this type of discussion before he was ready. I'm learning to be more patient and accept the fact that he feels under incredible pressure and I need to work with his time frame on this. I don't want to blow it now that something positive appears to be happening.