Yes, God cares about us, and he can perform miracles, but it is usually through other people that he meets our needs. ( I could tell you stories.) <p>Hey, if you have the energy to try a few things, go for it. We were just worried you were running out of petrol. Like I said, he is already broken, trying something on him won't break him now. <p>I would think the B-day is a good chance to make deposits in his LB$. Most of us have high expectations for Birthdays. Hope you have fun with it. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Remember, use logic, reason, and your "feelings" to make a plan, then go with it, despite the down feelings that come. <p>Yaaaaaa ! Go Seahorse ! <p>SS<p>PS, I just re-read a few posts. Are you having him go to counseling as part of your boundries for reconcilation?
You may have better luck if you use Spacecases approach. Tell him you need the help - and that you need him to go with you for feedback to the counsler on how you can improve. ( then clue in the counsler about what you are doing.) Any good counsler could work with that.<p>[ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: still seeking ]</p>

Unsureheart,<p>You said when you are down, you come here and read seahorse's posts. And I find you posting on this thread. Does that mean you you are down and need some help? <p>I can't say I know your story so I won't comment directly about you. HOWEVER, (lets see, if I do hugs and kisses, my wife will have a problem, how about..... naaa, well what if... naaa.) <p>Lets just say "Have a nice day." [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>BTW, you are a big help yourself. Keep up the good work. <p>SS

Seahorse -- What got me thinking about all of this and into another session with Jennifer was the post over on Gen QII about the length of time for plan A and the discussion there. I had given myself a six month time frame, but was really losing my love fast over the past few weeks. Jennifer observed that because I had something left and my WH seemed to somewhat be coming out of the fog that it wouldn't hurt to try the I desire letter. Maybe write one out and look at it and at your plan B letter and see which one feels right to you. I think you have nothing to lose by doing the I desire letter. It's not clingy or demanding but makes it clear that you recognize your marriage has to be different and outlines what trying means in some fashion without demands.<p>I agree with Still seeking on the counseling thing if your WH is gunshy about it. My WH has other issues besides the A that create problems for him (well doesn't everybody I guess). I still don't know if he'll agree to these boundaries for trying/coming home and I won't know until next week. I do know that I can't go back to the way it was and that he needs outside counsel besides me. He is a very private person and doesn't really have close friends he confides in very much. I haven't really thought through what I will say/how I will react if he rejects the marriage counseling idea. I think what Still seeking referenced might be a good approach -- it's for me and he can be there to be helpful.<p>Still seeking -- I'm not really down today since I had real boost yesterday with my WH at least acknowledging he wants to try and to move back home. I think I'm just daunted by what's to come next. I imagine this is going to be very hard. I honestly don't know how we're going to get that connection back, but I'm willing to try the MB approach since plan A has helped me so much.<p>So glad you're all here. Hope your weekend goes great Seahorse.

Hi Guys, I don't have much of an update, but I wanted to thank you both. I will try to do the letter today and pop it in his present.<p>I am glad you reminded me that he's 'broken' SS, I kind of forgot that he's still really at the beginning. I'm going to print off some of the concepts on this website and give them to him tomorrow too with the I desire letter. I will invite him to write one too. Just to see what his reaction is. I really want to try whatever I can, before I go to the Big B, then I'll be satisfied in myself. I've still got a little steam there.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Seahorse:
<strong>I'm going to print off some of the concepts on this website and give them to him tomorrow too with the I desire letter. I will invite him to write one too. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Be careful, Lizzie.<p>Not too much at once.<p>Baby steps.<p>You cannot be in a hurry.<p>General rule of thumb is not to try to educate them until they're seeking it out and don't ask them to contribute until they offer. Only you can be the judge of this. If you're not sure, please hold off.<p>If you choose to try anyway, be prepared for a cool reception with a casual reply:<p>You: Here's some stuff for you to read that I found to be real helpful for me.<p>Him: Ah, er, thanks.<p>You: And I thought you might be willing to answer my letter with one of your own.....<p>Him: Ah..........<p>You: But, hey, if you don't feel like it or you're not up to it right now, no worries, just keep it in mind if you think you might want to later, some other time. OK? Wanna go swim with the blood thirsty sharks instead?<p>WAT

Seahorse -- I think WAT is right -- baby steps. I gave him the I desire letter without communicating ANYTHING about hoping he would respond or any kind of time frame. I also tried to stop "educating" him/giving him books weeks ago. It was obvious (after MANY mistakes) that he felt like I was pushing him and he backed WAY off.<p>I would just give him the letter. Remember, I had NO REACTION to the letter for more than two weeks (just about sent me over the edge, but I kept plan Aing). <p>Baby steps. One step at a time. (WAT is always right it seems).

Hi everyone, did not give H any letters, mainly because I didn't have time, then saw your posts. <p>Saw him Saturday for lunch and we had more good talks. I told him that its hard because he dosen't give me any feedback or tell me what he's thinking. I said that sometimes I feel like just giving up.<p>He told me not to, to hang in there, but he was still unsure. He told me today in an email that I looked health and well and he loved my boots (the sexy knee high types, I won't repeat what we call them in Aust). I think he was trying to tell me in a safe way that I look good to him.<p>He told me that he's worried about telling me things as before I would get angry if he did. I acknowledged that I was like that and that I would be more open now, that I felt like i had let him down.<p>He said that its not all one sided and I wasn't the only one at fault.<p>I told him about all the reading and webstuff I've been doing and he said, ok what have you leart. So I told him, he wasn't expecting that I had something meaningful to say - I could tell by the look on his face. I think he was secretly impressed [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Anyway, we're still up in the air, strangely, even though it was all fairly positive I feel more insecure about it. I realise he is way behind, I've learnt so much he's back at the start. He told me that he was sceptical that I'd changed because it all happened so soon, but he likes the changes. I told him that was good as I like me as I am now.<p>I gave him a birthday card with an abbreviated love letter in it. Some of what I'd said in the plan B letter without the goodbye. He rang me after opening it and told me how much it meant to him, the things I said in it and that he was thankful for me giving him this time.<p>I think he knows that I'm coming to the end of my bit.<p>This is good, isn't it? So why do I feel so insecure? Help.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Seahorse:
<strong>........I think he knows that I'm coming to the end of my bit.<p>This is good, isn't it? So why do I feel so insecure? Help.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Why do you feel this way? BEcause you are stepping into an unknown field. Your reaction is quite normal my dear. Just proceed with caution. You are doing fine. He is seeing and thinking of you. Quite an improvement from a few months ago wouldn't you say? <p>See step back and see your progress. Let him worry about Seahorse. Let him wonder what his life will be like without the one he knows the best and the one who cares for him, really cares for him the most. Let him wonder. <p>U are doing good. Don't be worried about this turn of events. You have the foundation to survive this. <p>Remember if you can swim with sharks, this should be a piece of cake!!! <p>take care,
L.

I'm being impatient are I? I got so excited with a little bit of positivity, that I started to expect a lot. I think I've given him enough to think about for a while, so I will back off a little and recharge my batteries. Concentrate on what I need to attend to.<p>Both of us have come a long way since D-day, and at one stage in the beginning he told me it was over, now he's saying don't walk away, so you are right, Orchid, there has been good progress. Slowly does it for the BS, keep the mantra going "wait, wait".<p>Oh boy!

Hi Seahorse -- You are just like me. Something positive and we want it all right away. I think you did well to give him the birthday card and then plan to back off a bit. Patience is a virtue (but not one I've ever been good at [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] although I am learning as part of plan A).<p>My WH is away on business all this week and I am looking forward to this weekend with some trepidation and probably too much hope as he is to give me his letter and we are to discuss the possibility of him moving home. While I think I do want him home and want to try and work on our relationship; it's actually a little scary to think about it and continuing to want too much too fast. I keep reminding myself that it took years to get to this point and I shouldn't expect too much too soon.<p>Hang in there. You sound so much more at peace/comfortable with yourself in your posts these days than the early posts. You have come a long way.

I think Orchid is right, I think you are afraid of the unknown. So far it has been all you trying and him not responding. It stinks, but at least it never changes. <p>Now he is responding and - well, what will happen? <p>And you are right to worry about him being way behind in his developement. What if you get back together and you can't stand being with him? Thats another thing in the back of your mind - and you worry about it too. <p>But you don't know enough to let it bother you yet. Just keep going, slow and easy. You will be alright. You really will .<p>SS

Seahorse -- How are you doing with work and your WH?

Hi everyone, thanks for your support. There has not been too much change this week. H still a bit foggy- "I don't know what I'm doing on the weekend, I'll let you know", blah, blah, blah.<p>I was fairly annoyed with this email, so replied "If you can't make it,don't worry, I've got plenty to keep me going!" I was quite pleased with myself. I nearly sent an email today asking what he was doing but controlled myself.<p>I've been getting a 'Love H' in nearly every email!! Then on Wednesday he suddenly send me a real flirty/suggestive email - he hasnt really done that before. Its all too bizarre. Between me and him, neither of us are predictable anymore.<p>So this weekend, so far, will be for me. I'm going to do the day-spa thing (at home), go shopping (all the sales have started) and maybe buy myself a bike helmet!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Your right SS and Orchid, its all becoming a bit scary. I've been 'in crises' and now he's responding and I'm not sure how to take it, I guess with a grain of salt, in case it all changes again...<p>chow
SH

Need to vent. Hurting today. Haven't seen or heard anything for a few days. While nothing has changed with H, these periods of 'nothing' change me. It hurts, it makes me wonder why I am hanging on. I don't want to stop loving him, but its times like this I see no choice really, and I deserve better than this.<p>I have waited now for 5 months for him to decide, there is one month till I reach my deadline, but I feel like I need something now. <p>Its like he dosen't see me and then he dosen't care anymore, goes back into the fog I'm guessing. I don't know, I just don't know. <p>I am praying for guidance, but nothing is coming. I'm confused and hurt. <img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" />

Hi, Liz,
There are times when we just don't know and we sometimes see things in their worst light, and not the best. This is one of those down times. Tomorrow will be a better day. You really don't know. Perhaps he was injured and is in the hospital. ( OK, not very likely, but we never know, do we? ) Perhaps the worst is true, but we still don't know. So the grain of salt is best for the good, but also for the bad. Take the bad feelings with a grain of salt. <p>Sometimes we don't get an answer to our prayers because it's not time. Not because there is no answer. <p>Smile, even laugh a little. Doesn't that make you feel better? Don't give up yet. Try some more things. I bet you still have some left yet. <p>SS
Ps, After I posted, I thought of your good help for MRFlorida. What if his wife has a relapse? What would you advise? Take the same advice, you have seen some positive. The "I Love You's" are real. Remember that this is a roller coaster, not a linear rising graph. Perhaps by the time you read this, you will already feel better. If so, file it away for the next time.<p>[ June 23, 2002: Message edited by: still seeking ]</p>

Hello Everyone, I am doing well. I saw H yesterday for lunch (had a day off). It was strange really, half of me was absolutely terrified to see him the other half couldn't wait. <p>Again we had more discussions about the R, why it took this to happen for me to change, why I didn't change earlier, etc. I told him I am putting myself out on a limb and taking a lot of criticism, that I am sorry. Sometimes it is easier to get angry at another person, tha too admit your wrong - this was my only explanation to him. He acknowledged that he was at fault too.<p>He said he does like what he sees now, but again, he is frightened. I said that I would expect some changes too - he jokingly said 'minimal', but really he meant it. He has said this before A. I told him if he wasn't willing to make certain changes he should let me know because I need certain things to happen.<p>I told him that he must be honest with me from now on, that even if he thinks it will hurt me he must be honest, that we must be honest with each other for this to work. An example was about the sex issue, he told me pre-A he never thought about sex, now he says he thought about it all the time. I asked him to never do that again. <p>We agreed that we were not as good communicators as we thought. <p>I don't know the status of the A, its irrelevant to me at this point, I don't know why, maybe because there is progress. Shouldn't I be worried about it? I mean, it does sometimes, but not all the time. <p>He is coming out this weekend to see me and do some work around the house. I miss having him around. I miss not going to sleep with him at night. This still makes me cry.<p>I do think about life without him, but I am still holding on to hope. Do I let go completely? Do I move on? I am being patient but he may not come back. How do I plan the rest of my life without him when I want him here with me? He is telling me things that are hopeful, that he likes what he sees, but what if the fear stops him, how do I go through all this again? <p>I am in such a spot at the moment. I am in total limbo. I'm stuck and don't know what to do. Should I plan my life without him or just take it day by day. I think day by day is easier, but every now and then this happens and I get scared. <p>See I also want to move from this house. I love the actual house, but it is too big for me and I need something smaller and closer to the city. But I am frightened to move, it would mean he could walk away, it may be disasterous for me. God forbid, I may have to move in with dad! This also worries me, what will happen to me without him, when I am totally alone? I don't evenknow where to live or how to do some of the moving stuff - we did it together when we got married - he did most of the dealings. <p>I don't know. I keep praying, I hope God will answer me soon.

Liz,
You are doing it again. <p>Did you ever read the link I suggested a while ago? You need to read it and come back and lets talk. <p>You don't need to be afraid. - I could say a lot more but go read the thread first. It's here
Discussion on fear, training spouse <p>It covers two things you need right now. <p>Take it day by day, and in a few weeks ( if you still are worried) you can re-visit this again with all of us. <p>Don't be afraid of progress, you have been waiting for these conversations with H. BE GLAD!!. You can still opt out if you want. But, before you couldn't opt back in. Now you may be able to! You might just have a new option that you didn't have a month ago. Lets see what happens this month - OK? <p>SS

Hi Seahorse,<p>SS is good to help keep U in check. Sometimes our minds wander and we start to make a lot of suppositions, this can get us into trouble. <p>
Step back and breathe. Pay attention to what SS is saying. Need to stay on the staight and narrow. Letting our minds wonder too much may be a dangerous thing. <p>From here, I see you more steady and ready to move forward than your H. Yes, there will always be uncertainities in our future. Life is just like that. But you wonder what it will be like alone? You have been doing that for a while and take a look at what you have been doing? <p>I mean how many of us can say that when our Ws' left we went swimming with sharks?!?!?! U really have to give yourself more credit than you have been. <p>Of course you want someone to pamper you. That person will come. For now, pamper yourself. <p>Your current frustration and momments of anxiety are normal. Part of the healing process. <p>Really you are quite normal. At least for us BS!!!!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>L.

Ok SS and Orchid, thanks for your replies. I am up and down a lot, and I guess, to me its all clear cut and we should be on our way. I know he is scared, and I am being inpatient, I know to push too hard now would be a disaster. <p>I have a very active imagination Orchid, so a wandering mind for me is not good - I have the wind blowing in the trees outside as a knife weilding burgler in my head - you know what I mean? Maybe I better think of some new activity to try.<p>Yes I have done a lot and I've been having fun, but I don't want to be alone for too much longer. Its good while all this stuff is going on, at least I only have to look after me. I know, I know, maybe I am looking too far ahead right now.<p>SS I did actually look at that link last time, and I've read it again. OK so I need to 'train' H to meet my needs - learn to ask for things. See I'm scared to at this point. Things are moving ahead, what if he sees it as demanding? There are things I'd like to ask him for and to do, I just need to learn to do it in a way that he won't see as demanding.<p>For example, my bellydance classes finished this week for a few weeks. I would like to go see him at his home once a week during the week while they're not on, but I'm scared of being rejected, of him saying no, because it will hurt, but then if I just add something into a conversation, he won't get it (if I don't spell it out), so it means a risk. Other things to ask him for are less risky, so I'm happy to do them, am I getting this SS, if this what your talking about - asking him to fulfill my needs and if he's willing it may mean we are heading towards recovery? <p>I will come back to this, I am very tired and I need to have a bath to warm up (its been -1 celcius here - brrrr). I can;t concentrate I'm so cold!!!<p>[ June 27, 2002: Message edited by: Seahorse ]</p>

ALso, maybe the thing about the definition of being 'there' yet. Maybe I'm narrowing my definition of a relationship too much at this point, excluding the possibility that right now it is a relationship even though its not the picture I have in my head of how it should be.<p>OK I have to work now, but how am I going? Its better I do this in bits anyway, it gives me time to mull it over...