I find that some of these posts come slowly and with a great deal of thought. Some of them don't seem to have much cost associated with them but this one seems to have high emotional costs. Not that it hurts to give, because I have sometimes spent a great deal for things that lasted a long time and were very valuable to me. We don't want to say the wrong thing, we don't want to be trite, and of no substance, and we want to convey love and care. On the other side, we want to help with laughter, we can't cross some boundaries between the sexes, and we ( I, for one, ) are sometimes not smart enough to communicate what we intend. When we first start to post it is hard because we don't know the person well, and we have a hard time being accurate. Later, after we know them well, we sometimes know them too well, and what we say is painful. Pain is never intended, but it can be a by-product of honesty.

How can you take the pain away from a good friend?
You can't.
What could you do for your Father after your mothers passing?
We offer comfort, but that does not take away the pain, it only helps us bear it.

Knowing we could not take the pain away, we have tried to help you through it but we are not very good at it. One of the reasons I have not helped others more is that I can only stand so much pain myself. I don't know why it affects me so, but it seems that it does. Are things supposed to work this way?

I checked in this morning and found that God is still there. I knew he would be, but it is still a comfort to find it out again each day. I prayed more for a certain gal in Australia. I get no sense at all of what will happen, however I get a strong feeling that she will get help, and that she will be able to stand what ever comes. Towards the end, I got a strong feeling that It was time to go, and sure enough, I made my meeting with about 60 seconds to spare. In reflection, if he cares about little things like having me be on time, surely he can take care of my friend.

SS

Hi Ruth,
I have read a few of your posts, and I am sorry you have to be here on MB. I do feel you can get some help here.

I have not read all of your posts, and I don't know how much you have read on the site. I recommend at first you read all of the basic concepts here:
Basic concepts

There are always things we can to help our marriage.

How do I be nice and never ''needy???''
You run plan A. See this page for Info.
Plan A and other things

when does this turn around?
We can't answer that one, but there is a much better chance that he will if you run a good plan A.

looking forward to all the holiday therapist answers.....thanks.
It is often slow on Fridays, weekends, and holidays. I hope you don't get discouraged. You may have better luck starting your own thread on "General Questions". It is usually busier and gets more responses. We are just a bunch of people that try and help each other, we do the best we can. If you want consistent help, consider calling the Harleys for counseling, it really helps.

I hope so much that you are able to work things out, I am praying for you.

SS

Seahorse -- I know you were going to stay off the boards for a while. I miss you and being able to commisserate with you. I stayed away for awhile because I felt I had nothing to share, nothing to post other than despair at nothing happening. I had the impression that you were feeling the same.

I was encouraged to read still seekings posts to you here.

No matter where we are or what is happening in our real lives, there are people out there that care and God cares.

I hope you are well and wonder what is happening or not happening with your life.

Want to come to a fun Christmas party in Colorado on December 14th, dress up, drink port and meet some wonderful women and men? I wish you could. My best friend here is having this party. Typically I would be hosting the party at my house with my WH but I just couldn't fathom doing that this year so wonder woman is stepping in and hosting the party. I think I need a party right about now because I'm not feeling very festive or much in the Christmas spirit.

I hope you are enjoying your dog, your dad, your friends and dancing and scuba-diving and all of the things that bring you joy.

Often we wonder............
There are many things in life we don't understand. I have seen it asked on these boards, and elsewhere - why? Why did God permit a young mother to die, and leave her children motherless. Why did my H leave me? Why did my W leave me? Why did 9/11 happen in the US, what about car accidents, and other accidents. What about war, famine, earthquakes? Could not God prevent these things? While I cannot answer all these questions fully, surely there are some answers available to us.

Could God prevent these kinds of things? The answer must surely be yes. He could drive all cars, and planes, save us from pain, prevent all accidents. He could save us from all labor, all effort, all sickness, he could feed us, keep us from every harm, even save us from death. Is this what we want? Would it be for our best good?

What would happen if we were shielded from disappointments, temptations, sorrows, suffering? If choices and consequences were taken away from us how could we learn, how could we grow? Should we be protected always from hardship, pain, suffering, sacrifice, or work? Should people who do good be rewarded, and protected from all harm? Should those who do wrong immediately be punished? If growth came from fun, and ease, and having no responsibility, then why would we ever exert ourselves to work, or to learn, or to overcome our weaknesses?

If this life is the end, then a short life is a tragedy. Even in old age, death is a failure. IF we look upon life as an eternal thing, stretching far into the future then all we do here is put in perspective. Is it not wise for him to let us have trials that we might rise above them, responsibilities that we might achieve, work to grow our muscles, and sorrows to try our souls?

Should we not be permitted temptations to test our strength, sickness and hardship to learn patience, and death that we may be immortalized, and glorified? If our lives here were all that there is, then death would be a frustration, but it is not. The frustration is in failing to measure up to what we could be if we made correct choices, worked as hard as we are able to work.

WE know so little, OUR judgment is so limited. I suspect we are prone to judge God with less wisdom than a young child would use when judging some of our actions in relation to them.

Surely our best good comes from saying " Thy will be done." and continuing to have faith, even when we don't understand why. There is always a "best" path to follow, even when it is hard to find in the darkness of this world.

We cannot take away the pain, but we wish to help you with the journey, and comfort you as best we can from the other end of a keyboard. I don't think WAT understood exactly where you were coming from as he tried to help. His council was based on his experiences and on what your situation looked like to him. I believe his intent was to shorten your pain.

I have a hard time with some posts, as mentioned before. Sometimes I believe I can help, but I don't have time to say what needs to be said. Sometimes I don't know how I can help. Sometimes I have thoughts but wonder if they are correct, and if they are helpful. I usually read each night before I sleep, often as in this post, I repeat things not origional to me, that I have read, or heard elsewhere. I hope this helps, not hurts.

God grant you to know what you need to know, do what you need to do, find the answers you are seeking, and the help that we all need.

SS

I read back over a few posts tonight. I can see that it is easy to misunderstand.

I see things in my own post that I never intended to communicate. Some things sound kind of blunt that I never intended to sound blunt. Some things I intended to sound kind don't sound very kind. I wonder how these things were taken and if they help as they are intended to help. It makes me stop and think some - but I try not to think to closely in what may be the wrong direction. It's not healthy to think to long about negative things. Problem I have is that when I am down I don't understand what to long is. When I am up, I don't think on things enough, I just charge ahead and blunder through and hope I don't break anything. Where's the balance? How do we find it?

Do we ever get answers to any of this stuff?
Yes, we do. I have lived long enough to know that there are answers. We improve ourselves by trying to improve, by not giving up, by learning from our mistakes.

Another thing I have learned by reading past posts is that I tend to sound preachy sometimes, which I never intended either. Oh well, I still have a lot to learn, there are answers, but they seem to require hard work. Perhaps I need a new mental weight bench.

SS

There is a friend I work with that is having troubles with his teenage son. I won't go into real details, but to give a general idea, the son is doing drugs, has quit going to school, and the police have been involved more than once. Last week the son came to our workplace seeking money from his dad. I wasn't here but one of my co-workers said their were heated words and the man (BO) told his son to leave. The co-worker relates that after the son left, " I told Bo that I understood what he was feeling." then Bo said ( with real anger ) "no you don't, you don't have any idea, so don't give me any of this *amn talk about how you understand."

Note that these two are pretty good friends most of the time. I often think I hear these same undertones here on MB. I think that sometimes we feel that no one knows how "we feel" and that they donn't understand us at all. I think it's true. When in our own private purgatory no one can really understand us or reach us. No one can suffer for us, or take our pain away from us. I often feel for those that I can't help, and it is hard to watch them and know that.

Bo seems to be doing better now, even though his son has not changed. I don't know what will happen with either one, but I suspect Bo's pain will be lesser, and shorter, as he is not the one with the problem. He is trying to fix someone else's problem and is giving it all he has. In the end, all that he does may help, may not.
I believe we would all agree that he has to try.

I don't know where you are, how you are doing, or if this stuff bothers you, but I care.

SS

<small>[ December 13, 2002, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Seahorse -- How are you? I am worried about you. I'm doing alright, but not great, in plan B. I'm thinking of you and your dog and wondering how you are feeling.

This one came from MIL today.

Blessed are the flexible for they shall not be bent out of shape.

SS

Dear Seahorse,
If you happen to lurk before Christmas I would like to wish you peaceful time and joyous dives if you decide to do them as a gift to yourself.
FBOW

Hi,
Hows our brave little seahorse that often doesn't feel brave?

I have been around wishing everyone Merry Christmas, and for you it is Christmas already, or close to it. ( I have never worked out the time difference for you and I.)

I still think about you quite often...... wonder how you are. I don't know if I have any words of wisdom, just wanted you to know you have friends all over the world that care.
If you have the inclination to do a status report, there are many that are waiting. If you don't believe me, look around at everyone nodding their heads when they read this. ( you CAN see them, CAN'T YOU???)

I know you get around the board every once in a while, I hope I haven't offended you by what I have written.

Comments have been made about the fight we have inside of us to overcome our own faults. I know you have some of those same feelings of doubt and worry that we all have. I hope today and this week they are distant, and that you can think of good things, and happy times, past....and future.
I hope by now you can see a future that has a sun, and flowers, and happiness....... not just darkness.

Best wishes to someone I have a great respect for.

SS

<small>[ December 24, 2002, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

HI SS and FBOW and whoever else is "out there". It is Christmas morning here (10.10 am to be exact). This is the first slow moment I've had in weeks.

I've been to my lawyer again and have heaps to do in order to sort the situation out. H has overvalued the things I want - like the furniture and car, so I need to negotiate with him. The house is still not on the market. I am really dragging the chain with these things mainly because I just don't want to be bothered with it. But I know once I get to the other side of this bit, I will be free.

And yes, I will be free, I have virtually nothing to do with my H now - we just don't contact each other. I have given up and don't want him back. There's so much more on offer out there and I have my own stuff to do - like some more travelling and maybe buying myself a home -something noone can take away from me. I'm out and about diving, socialising and meeting new people. I have some really good friends, real diamonds, that have kept me going. I'm hoping I can repay them someday.

Thanks for your kind words SS. You all here at MB are some of those friends I hope to repay although I have no idea how. God will provide a way.

I don't really feel like a marriage builder anymore as I do not wish to save the marriage so its hard to come back and participate. I feel a little weird if I do. I really just come back to check on my friends.

One thing I have realised, there's a whole big world waiting out there for me and I can do what I want with it. Am I happy? - yes and content. I try to find at least one thing to laugh at each day.

I wish everyone a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year - I hope 2003 is more peaceful and happier for everyone.

Liz

Hi Liz - glad to hear from you. I think about you often.

You sound strong and confident. Do you mind if I say I feel proud of you? Sorta like a daughter finding her own way?

All my best wishes,
Dave

Liz,

Thing could not get any worst than this year ... we just have to brace our new life. I am pretty sure you are more than ready to face it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Happy Holiday ...

-rh-

Dear Liz,

Wishing you well for the new year. It will be a progressively positive one for you because you are in control for what you allow to affect you. As for the Ws, well he will wear that symbol around his neck and life will not get better.

That's ok..... you go and swim with those sharks. Keep us posted and a bit jealous of all your adventures!!! LOL!

Liz, I am proud of you also. Maybe I am not old enough to be your parent (like WAT - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) but I am sure proud of how you handled yourself. You are a better woman and one that is meant to enjoy life.

Hugz,
L.

Hi guys, thank you so much. I never thought about making anyone proud, but that makes me feel nice - an added bonus to taking my life in my hands.

Well the cement in the building of my new life arrived today. My brother in law came over to say hi and merry christmas, he also told me H took OW to his family's place in the country for Christmas. He didn't really introduce her to anyone and she didn't speak much apparently (because she dosen't speak much English).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It will be a progressively positive one for you because you are in control for what you allow to affect you. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid I didn't realise how true this was till the above happened. Sure, I was hurt when he told me and stunned and a bit mad, but I calmed myself, I told my BIL that my H has gone to far and I don't wish to have him back.

Within an hour I was fine again. Sure it stinks, but it was bound to happen and actually it seems laughable now - they are obviously getting serious, funny, H said he didn't want a relationship...

He's truly a fruit loop and she's stuck with him. Oh divine justice!!! I love it - and I didn't have to do a thing!!!

The best part about all of this - I suddenly realised I'm OK.

Talk soon guys

Hey, before I go, WAT you willbe interested in this story.

Have you heard of the Sydney to Hobart Yacht race? Its starts on Boxing Day and tradition is that if you have a boat you meet the yachts in the harbour and travel down the coast with them for a bit.

My diving friends invited me out for the day with them. Although I love boats I'm not anywhere near being a sailor(es). Anyway, it was rainy and dreary and we were heading out the heads but never made it - 3 mtre swell - eek I'd much rather swim with sharks!

We never made it to see the yachts and I was glad to get back on dry land (except it was raining).

SH

Liz - you sound terrific!!

Yes, I'm quite familiar with the Sydney to Hobart Race. It's quite hard core and unpredictable - requires REAL boats rather than those fragile sissy boats currently sailing over on the Huraki (sp?) Gulf in NZ.

But do give it a go again, sometime?

Dave

Seahorse -- I haven't posted much recently between the holidays and not having much to say other than I'm not really in contact with WH and thinking about filing for a D.

You do sound strong and I am glad you are checking in with your MB friends. I was thinking about last year at this time. I was miserable and WH was treating me terribly. This year is not exactly happy, but certainly less stressful and I'm not waiting for what awful thing WH will say to me next.

I now know for sure that your WH's head is not only up his rump, it's stuck there. He took the OW to his family's place?!?

Keep us posted. I don't have daily access to a computer for a few days so I will check in with you in a couple of days.

Peace.

Sometimes I post too much, so I thought I would give you a rest.

I hope each day gets a little better for you (with a few relapses thrown in, can't help that)

I hope you gain conficence as you go.

Still praying for you.

Still have faith in your ability.

Still beileve that you will be a much better a person a year from now, and much happier.

SS

Dear WAT, USH and SS, hi all thank you all for your kind words and support. I am having fun and I am content. I am happy being me and with how things are. Each day I find something to laugh about and life is not so serious now. I can see my 'old' self in others and wish I could help them, but we all have our own path and I am there for whoever needs me.

Well, I have the legal stuff well underway and negotiating with him. He comes back with agro, but I remind myself when I am scared of it that its all hot air and gas. I am determined to remain in control and power of myself. Not so much that i 'get my way' but so I know I have protected me and that he absolutely has no power over me. This is when the Alanis Morriset CD's come out.

I may see him this weekend after not seeing him for some time (he's coming to mow the lawn and see the dog). I am a little worried that I might feel for him again, but I will remember he is only out for himself and does not love me. I still care for him, but I imagine that will remain for a long time and it just a sign of being human. I do not want him back.

Well, I have fill out the divorce papers. I will send them to the lawyer when she returns from summer holidays. I see a financial advisor in a week and re enrolled in my Genetic Counsellor course last week. The dog and my dad are both doing well.

AS you can see I have what I can under control or working towards it.

I can see life has so much to offer, I'm not looking back for even a minute.

I check on you guys sometimes, USH I see things are still tough. Hang in there.

Liz

Good for you, Liz. When you feel like it, please keep us posted because we care.

On a totally different topic, please help me with this question: Who is Victoria, and why is she bitter?

Dave