I found out about six weeks ago that my H is involved with someone on the internet. I accidentally found an e-mail to the OW on his computer. When I confronted him he told me that it was nothing, just a friend, but that he has been having problems for some time -- depression/anxiety. He stated that he was trying to sort them out on his own without my finding out. He also said he was not sure if he loved me. We talked things over and I told him I wanted our marriage to work. I encouraged him to seek professional help. I asked him if we could attend counseling together but he would not agree.<p>He did start counseling and a psychiatrist has recently prescribed Wellbutrin. About 3 weeks after I first discovered the e-mail, I was on the computer and noticed that he was forwarding e-mail to a hotmail account. I logged on to the account found more e-mails to the OW. They clearly indicated that she was ot just a friend. I confronted him about them and we had a terrible fight. He threatened to leave, but I begged him to stay and work on our marriage. He says he does not know if he loves this other person, he does not know if he loves me. He feels like he is going crazy and no longer feels like himself. My H agreed to stop communicating with the OW and work on our marriage. <p>That was a week ago. I have been trying to follow Plan A. I do know that he is still communicating with her (I know this through snooping). When we are together, he is withdrawn, but when we are with other people he acts like himself. <p>I have several questions:<p>How do you continue Plan A without going crazy? I feel constant rejection from my H and find it hard to continue when I am destroyed by his continuing betrayal.<p>Should I continue snooping? The information I have discovered has been enormously hurtful to me.<p>Given the facts above, does my H love me? We have always had a great marriage. About three months ago, there was a change. That is when my husband began to withdraw. Some events that I feel might have contributed are my returning to school (I was accepted to grad school and had worked very hard to be accepted and get a scholarship) and his birthday. He seemed to be very bothered that he was another year older.<p>Is my H just staying with me because he cannot deal with completely devastating me?<p>I would welcome any insight anyone has. I have read everything on Marriage Builders and all the postings. They are the only things that have allowed me to keep my sanity during this time.<p>Thanks.

Hi,
Welcome to MB. This place has the tools and support to help you learn about your situation. Understand what is happening to the both of your and learn how best to get help and be helped. <p>I can stay only a minute but if you take a look at the concepts section under the MB logo above, you will find some valulable free info. <p>I will come back and post to you soon. My H did the same thing. Almost 15 months later, he is home working on his marriage and family but it was long and hard. But survivable (is that a word???). LOL!! <p>Hugz and I will be back laters. <p>L.

Hi, <p>I am just getting ready to leave work. I encourage you to read the threads by OneGoing. I have bumped up the research info that has been put together. It is real good. <p>Read and post back. Right now you are going through a range of emotions like never before. You will be angry, frustrated, sad, etc. You may cry and have anxiety attacks. Reading will help calm you down. Also find a counselor or use the phone counseling service offered here. Steve and Jennifer are pros. There is also an emotional needs questionnaire you can take. <p>Keep a journal of your info and feelings. It will be helpful later to know what you went through. Your timeline and situation is similar to mine except I went through this 1 year earlier. <p>Take care and come back for support. If you need to talk, let me know. <p>Hugz,
L.

Hi, <p>How are you doing? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>L.

Im going thru the same thing right now. I understand how you feel, its just devastating. This is a fresh wound for me as well.<p>I hope you will find comfort in this site, and That you are not alone. <p>If you feel the need to continue investigating, then do so. If you find what you have uncovered too much to bear, then stop. Please, talk to your spouse see what has to be said. <p>I am also new on this site. Im not the best person to get advise from, but there are others here who have similar stories to ours, with much more experience. <p>Read on

I think the best you can at this point is be patient...let the medication and counseling kick in for a while...<p>I think he probably still loves you but like all of us ws's is looking for that elusive 'high' that being 'in love' gives us. It is an illusion but you probably can't convince him of that yet. <p>I tell my h that of course the ow understood him and was so kind...she hasn't washed his skid-marked drawers or listened to him whine that he was dying when he just had a little cold...hasn't put up with him having 25 (and I'm not exaggerating) jobs in 4 years...etc. He hasn't lied hundreds of times to her. He never kicked out the window of her car in a drunken rage. Oh, yeah. What he does finally see (I hope) is that I have seen all those horrible things and still want to live with him and be his wife. So, now, who really loves him?<p>Patience, honey, patience. He should be able to hear you a little better in a week or so.

Thanks for all the support. <p>I haven't posted back recently because this week everything blew up. Ok, here's what happened:<p>One Monday night I confronted my WH about what I knew -- I just couldn't take it anymore, pretending I didn't know and that everything was all right between us. He told me he didn't love me and left. However, before he left, I use the technique from Plan B -- letting him know that I couldn't stand the pain, but that I still loved him and if he ever decided he wanted to work things out to please call me.<p>I was devastated when he left and felt I couldn't take the pain that I was suffering. I have a very supportive family and they came over so I woudn't be alone. <p>BUT -- he called about 10:00 p.m. that night and said yes, he really did love me and he wanted to work things out. Of course, that confused me further. I didn't understand how he could say he didn't love me one minute and that he did the next. He told me that he was very confused and that when he said he didn't love me he believed it. But that after he left, he began to think about everything and how he had hurt me and what a great marriage we used to have. He says he was SO ANGRY with me for neglecting him that it led to where we were today. <p>We've really been talking over the past couple of days -- some good conversations, some very painful conversations. He saw his therapist and talked with him about it. He has also agreed to go to marriage counseling. I'm hopeful but also extremely scared.<p>He asked to move back in and I told him I was scared and we had a bad conversation about it. He says I have to trust him. I think I cannot just make myself trust him -- I believe I can learn to trust him again, but it will take time. I am also afraid if he just comes back, we will both slip back into old habits that got us to this point in the first place. Also, I am afraid that occasionally my anger and hurt over his betrayal will overwhelm me and cause me to LB. Those feelings are very real to me and I am trying to get over them. I do honestly believe I can forgive him for this betrayal -- I just don't think those feelings will go away instantly.<p>After thinking about these things, I did call him this morning and tell him he could come home. Now, he says he doesn't think it is a good idea just yet. He says he wants to make sure we don't rush things and that we have time -- both things that I talked with him about. He also says that he doesn't want me to be scared about him coming home. <p>Is it too soon for him to come home? We don't have an appointment for counseling until next week.<p>Should we see the counselor he has been seeing or a new counselor? I am concerned that the counselor might already have preconceived ideas. I have a friend who went to marriage counseling to a counselor that was already seeing her husband and she felt beat up by the counselor and did not feel that he gave any validity to her perspective.<p>There is one issue that I feel will be difficult to resolve and I have not tackled discussing it with my WH except superficially. He feels that we are both responsible for his EA with the OW. He has also stated, in anger, that this is my fault for "not making him feel like him". I feel and am willing to accept responsibility for my actions that led to him feeling neglected and brought him to the point where he had felt he had to make some choices. I do, however, feel that he should accept responsibility for his decision to seek out the OW. I feel he had choices -- he could have talked to me and let me know that I was not meeting his ENs, he could have done nothing and continued to let our relationship deteriorate, he could have sought comfort in someone else, etc. I do believe I should have pushed harder to figure out what was wrong. In hindsight, I know that he was not communicating honestly with me when he said everything was fine. I accept responsibility for these things and want to work so that I discontinue this behavior. I also accept responsibility for neglecting him. Am I wrong not to accept responsibility for the OW? Are we both talking about the same thing but just arguing over semantics?<p>In the past, I have always been more in tune with what is going on with him and pushed when I needed to. He stated that in the past I have always met his needs without him having to ask for anything. He does not feel that he should have to let me know what his needs are and that he doesn't want to have to beg me to meet a need -- if he has to ask then he considers that begging. Another concern I have is that I am not a mind reader. Yes, I want to build a better marriage and relationship (even better than it was when things were great). But, I, like every other human, am not perfect and know that at some point in the future I will mess up. When I mess up, will he seek out someone else? If I accept responsibility for the OW, am I giving him license for another EA or PA in the future when/if I have "neglect" him again?<p>Finally, one other thing regarding the counselor, he told my H that "by the time couples get to marriage counseling, it is already too late". Somehow this statement bothers me. I don't exactly think this is the right attitude for a counselor to have. It does not seem to be the attitude I have seen on this site. I have been tremendously encouraged by the stories I have heard and the perseverance of many of the people. I am truly in awe. Am I crazy to be concerned with this counselor's statement?<p>Thanks for listening. Any feedback you have would be appreciated. <p>Thank you, Orchid, Scared to be single, and diddallas, for your support. <p>If anyone has more insight on what a WS is thinking, I would appreciate it.

I feel every bit of your pain. My stomach is in knots as I type this. It's hard to eat when even the thought of food makes me gag. What did we do to deserve this? Thank god for this site...

Hopeless One-
You are right in that a couselor should not have that attiude - that by the time you see counseling it is too late. That is crap. The whole point of counseling is to help save the marriage! You should find a new counselor.<p>Do you and your H have children? How long was your H's affair? Did it turn physical?<p>Hugs to you.

Just checking in and bumping this up.

ok...will give my $0.02 for what it might be worth. <p>Counseling...a good one is worth their weight in gold, a bad one is worse then no counseling at all. Agree to TRY his counselor if he really wants to use him/her; BUT agree before going that if you are not BOTH comfortable with him/her to seek out a new one that you both can communicate with.<p>The timing on his coming home is to be agreed on by both of you. If it is too early for one, then the other must wait.<p>Whose fault for what? You are completely responsible for all mistakes, errors in judgements, miscommunications, etc. which you made during the marriage. Your H is completely responsible for all mistakes, errors in joudgements, miscommunications, etc. which he made during the marriage...PLUS his CHOICE to seek outside of the marriage what he found lacking either in the marriage or himself. YES...HE is responsible for expressing his needs...you are NOT a mind reader. Even if in the past you have been able to meet his basic needs, NO ONE can ALWAYS do this even when they do know exactly what needs are lacking. You are NOT begging for a need to be met, when stating that there is a need that is not being met. You are communicating!<p>I would definitely be VERY concerned about a counselor who is stating what is or is not in such a tone. HOWEVER...you are getting this statement second hand and your H may not have understood what was said. (Been there when discussing my H's counseling sessions.) Bring it up at your first session. If this is how the counselor responds...do NOT continue counseling with him/her. Seek out someone who is a professional marraige counselor who is willing to bring the marriage back to a firm foundation, not with a preceived idea that it is already too late, it is NEVER too late if both partners are willing to commit. jmho

Thanks for all your advice. I am encouraged by those of you that have survived this. <p>In answer to questions:<p>No we don't have children -- I am thankful that we have not had any so they are spared this pain.<p>Also, I don't believe it was ever physical -- my H says no. Hard to know for sure what the truth is. He says she lives in another state and they have never met -- I don't know anything about her except the communications I have intercepted between them.<p>H and I are talking -- he moved back in over the weekend.<p>We are really trying to work on things. We had some good conversations and talked about things. We have agreed to go to his counselor, but if I/he does not feel comfortable, we will find someone else.<p>I feel good about the was things are progressing, BUT . . . <p>I thought things were getting better, but this weekend I have been feeling INTENSE anxiety. I had several attacks. I have never experienced anything like this before. I am worried that I might not have the strength to get through this. I would have thought I would be feeling better now, but I seem to be feeling worse. I can't stop thinking about the OW and all the hurtful things my H said. I try to believe that he did not know what he was doing -- like this site says, he was an alien -- but it overwhelms me sometimes.<p>Also, my H lied to me again. I asked him if he had been on the computer this weekend and he said no -- he swore he had not -- but I know better. I checked the spy program and saw that he had been on the computer, although he did not communicate with OW. Also, there were 2 e-mail accounts that he used in communicating with her. He has changed the passwords for both. One of them he told me what the new password is. He doesn't know that I know about the other e-mail account, but I do. Only, now I do not have access to it because I do not have the password. Why has he changed it? He did not check this account this weekend, so maybe he is not communicating with her. <p>I don't know what to do. My H assures me he loves me and now realizes how much he loves me. I try to believe this. I am so scared I will mess everything up. Why do I have to feel this way now? Shouldn't everything be getting better. I am worried that I will drive my H away again. I am worried that I am going crazy. I am worried that I will never be able to forget the words my H wrote to her.<p>How do you make it through this?

Hi, <p>Checkin' in. I understand where you are at. Your H needs to show the honest and retore your trust in him. <p>How to survive? Read surviving an affair and his needs/her needs. Let him read his needs/her needs so he can better learn how to meet your needs. If H will not meet with Steve ore Jennifer, you schedule an appt with one of them. They will help you. <p>Learn what you will and will not accept in your home. For me it took me 9 months to identify that the one thing I could not tolerate was the OW's influence on any family member living within our home. My was out of the ouse for 5 months and stayed with OW for about 10 days. Long enough. He knew she was too overbearing and did not want to live with that. But the OW thinks she owns H and calls. Now I have asked H to tell me when she calls so I know we are working through this together. H's cell phone is from work so he can not change it yet. Our home phone has caller id and privacy manager, so all calls must be identified. It took over 1 year to get H to agree to all this. In fact he just handed over his passwords from his e-mail accounts. <p>I am no longer being demanding on him, just let him know what I need in this family and if anyone wants to play games,establish OW contact whatever, they can go and do it, elsewhere. At the beginning he used to get sarcastic. I don't fight it, just remind him that there is the door and he can take that attitude and his bod right out there. He then simmers down because he knows he does not want to live with OW or anyone like her. Hm.....he had to realize that on his own. I could not force him to but I could force respect in this family and that was within my right. That was and is my need. He is coming around and periodically has a setback, but it is getting less and he is beginning to show more care. <p>I have to remember that this stuff took time to develop and been going on longer than I realized. So recovery make take as long if not longer. <p>My H used to check out porn also. His addiction to that stopped when the A went full blown. Traded one bad habit for another. Then we had to work on removing all bad habits. See which is harder? <p>Hang in there....bit of a bumpy road ahead but you will make it. Another book is Love must be tough by James Dobson. <p>L.

Thanks for the advice. My H and I have our first counseling session tonight. I don't know how that will go.<p>Over the last week we have had some good times and some bad. My H wants to put all this behind him and never talk about it again. I try, but sometimes I am overwhelmed with feelings. <p>How do you get past this? I am trying to make progress everyday, but feel that some days things are worse than ever.

Read SAA (surviving an affair). This will give you steps to get over it. See if you can schedule a session with Steve or Jennifer. <p>Ignoring the problem is a temporary fix. The counselor should know this. Might be ok for a while but eventually it would need to be addressed or this could start all over again. <p>Let us know how it goes.
L.

Dear Hope, <p>How are you doing??!?!<p>L.

Dearope,
I just read your post and can feel what you are going through. I hope you are ok. I would just like to comfort you and say I went through the same feelings as you. I've been in recovery for over 1 year and our marriage is getting better everyday. We talked alot and I had alot of ups and downs, lots of "freak outs". It is important that your H understands that "total honesty" is the only way to make this work out for both of you!!! This might take some time for him to realize this, try not to push it, just make it clear to him that this is what you expect.He shouldn't have any secrets, otherwise you will not be able to rebuild trust. If you feel that he is not ready, try to be patient. I know this is very hard and I know it is the most painfull experience one can go through. Please hold on and take care of yourself!
bb

Thanks for all the encouragement.<p>Things have been a little better lately. I am reading SAA and it is great. It is a little scary to read it and read these posts and realize that it is the same story over and over again. <p>My H has really been trying to understand what I am going through. That helps. He has read everything I have asked him to and we have had a counseling session. <p>He says there has been NC with OW since D-Day #3. I am not sure if I believe him -- of course the trust thing will be really difficult. I am a little more optimistic lately, though. <p>I just want to thank everyone here for sharing their stories and encouraging each other. It really helps.