I need help sorting through this. My husb. & I have been married 10 yrs. We have 3 children. For the 1st 9 yrs. I have had the most wonderful man. There is not much to complain about. This last year we had twins, which was very tough on our time. When they were about 9 mos. old my husb. changed into someone I do not know. He started working out,Taking extra care of his looks, going out and distancing himself from the family. I tried talking to him many times about it and he just kept saying he's going through something. Just before X-mas I heard a voice mail mess. on his cell phone from a woman, saying she was hoping they could see eachother...I then looked over all his cell phone bills and discovered that he had been talking to her every day, 5 or more times a day. This seems to have gone on for 3 mos.(The phone calls) I confronted him and he tells me they have alot in common and are strictly just friends. (She is also married with children) My question was why did he hide it from me if they were just friends??There was also more, I was catching him in lies often. I am having a very difficult time overcoming this. The way he has drifted from the family and all the time he spent on the phone really makes me wonder. He promises me they never slept together. Even if he is telling the truth, I still feel like it was an affair because they had to talk every day....Also, the going out suposedly with the guys once a month. He dressed to the hilt, I really questioned that too. He also had gotton into some other trouble when going out. I feel like I'm in a nightmare. I question everything now. I feel so betrayed. Any thoughts out there???? I'm so lost. He has told so many lies and has been so sneaky.

Hurtandlost...I am so very sorry. I know how conflicted and confused you are right now. Yes, it does sound as if your H at the very least has been having an EA (emotional affair), it may or may not have turned into a PA. What is your H doing NOW? Has he broken the connection that he has with this woman? Have you talked to him about including you in this "friendship" if that is all that is going on? Have you informed her or has he that you are aware of what has been going on and that you are not willing for it to continue? Have you talked to her H about this? <p>I know this is loaded with questions...but they are ones that need to be addressed. <p>If you H has begun doing whatever is necessary to break away from this woman (what I would advise even if it is truly ONLY a friendship), then both of you need to discuss what benefits he was looking for from her. We as mom's with small children do get overwhelmed and our spouse and our marriage can become one of just parenting instead of focusing on the foundation of the family...the two of you! But you BOTH are responsible for the health of your marriage and making sure that you each meet the other's emotional needs...but they are responsible for telling you what those needs are if they are not being met.<p>If he is unwilling to stop his behavior, then you will need to decide what is in your best interest for yourself and your children. It's a hard decision and one best made with care and thought. Please look over the articles here and you may wish to discuss them with your H.<p>Praying that you and your H have caught this before too much harm has been done to your marriage and family. A marriage can become more loving, stronger, more honest and healthier after a betrayal...but it takes BOTH of you working on the marriage and committing to it 110%. It's possible for one spouse to keep the marriage together over the short term when one spouse is fighting to find themselves, but a marriage is a partnership...and it involves two people working very hard to keep it lively.<p>I would advise that you seek some professional counseling, both individual and couple. A good counselor is worth their weight in gold and can help guide you while you struggle to overcome whatever happens. (A bad counselor is worse then no counselor...so choose wisely and if not happy with one or comfortable...keep searching until you find someone that you "click" with.)<p>Good Luck!!

Thank you for your reply. Your words are very practical and inspiring. To answer a few of the questions. He says he wants us, not her. He says he has not spoken to her since I discovered her. I have spoken to her and she said if she knew it would have caused this much trouble in our marriage she wouldn't have befriended him. I know that all sounds good, but everything I've been told the last 9 mos. has been lies. I confronted my husb. 6 mos. ago after seeing her # on his cell phone bill. He lied and said it was the wife of a friend that sometimes used his wife's cell phone. I believed him, although still suspicious. I also asked him 2 mos. ago if he had a female friend he talked to through work and he flat out lied and said no. Why hide a simple friendship and lie to your loved one because of just a simple friendship. I know in my heart based on all the phone conversations they had (He talked to her more than me for 3 mos.) that this was at the very least an affair of the heart. I asked him what was so special about her, that I was lacking in. He refuses to talk about her at all. He wants to just forget it and move on. Well, I'm trying but as you know, it hurts, hurts so badly to know the person you have cherished and trusted for 10 yrs. let another woman in. I also still wonder if it was sexual. Of course he would never admit to it. He had done some strange things over the months. I love my husband and I want to stay with him, I just am lost as to how to overcome all the answers I do not have. He will not talk and I still want to know what happened for him to need her everyday so much. Maybe we should seek counseling. I'm afraid he will laugh. He thinks I'm over reacting to the whole thing. I'm sorry, I do not think happily married men should have to talk to another female on a daily basis more than he talks to his wife. How do you ever let go of all the stuff that keeps popping in your head and how do you ever trust again??? Did you continue to snoop on your husband? After awhile that can drive you nuts. Thank you again for your inspiration. Hope to hear back from you again.

Hurt&Lost. ... You caught your WS in a affair. It might be an EA or PA but it was one or both. You have issues that need to be addressed. Try and get this resolved now before the next one destroys your marriage. You both need to talk with a Pro and a really good one, do some research and make him go. He might be drifting away from his family due to over load. But he did turn to another and thats the "Red Flag".
I have been through this before and now its ending in "D". Wife met someone at a gym, called each other several times a day. Caught it ended it but she did it again now its over after 17 years. What I'm saying is that you both have problems and they just don't go away. Face them and correct. You need to re-establish trust and that takes some time. Start going through this site and read everything. You both need to talk and he needs to need you, not another.

Your situation sounds similar to mine. I have learned that a woman's intuition is a powerful thing. I got the sense that my H was having an affair shortly after it begun but I did not want to believe it. I wish I would have confronted the situation then instead of waiting another seven months. Now he is confortable. I honestly beleive that if I confronted him with an ultimatum now, he would not leave her so I haven't. Good luck in whatever you decide. I should have nipped it while it was still an EA. Now it is a PA and I am sure he is sleeping with OW. I wonder about safe sex and OC but what can I do?

Hurtandlost...OK. I assume they are co-workers. (The bane of my H's affair.) It is very easy for those who spend the majority of their waking hours with others, as those who work do; to become entangled in the personal lives of their co-workers. It can be innocent or at least in the beginning stages. It is also easy for it to cross boundaries which should NOT be crossed.<p>Since your H has stopped all contact (to your knowledge), this is the first step. He may have just received his own "wake up" call (when you discovered the calls) as to where his behavior was leading him. Since this woman has spoken to you and said that she would not have befriended him if she had known what problems it could bring to him and his marriage and his family...take advantage of that statement. Make sure that she is well informed that you expect her to keep her distance and to remain professional around your H during working hours and that NO extra time will be given to deepening that friendship on ANY level. <p>I understand your very real concern that he had called her 9 months ago and lied about it. But this is in the past. Yes, he lied. Yes, he will likely continue to try to lie, in a misguided attempt to protect you from further hurt and/or to protect his own @$$. It's one of the hardest truths we as the betrayed have to get across to our spouses...continuing to lie only prolongs suspicion and mistrust and sorrow.<p>As for my personal experience...I didn't have this wonderful site to learn from. I did it all backwards. I ranted, raved, cried, screamed, became silent, all the love busters that ever came down the pike. The thoughts stayed in my mind for months. I'd have a few good days, and then decend into "maddness". My H became afraid to come home each night never knowing "who" would be waiting for him to walk through the door. He cried with me, he faught with me, we struggled. But we both were committed to making our marriage better. YES, I continued to snoop. And to this day, my H allows me full access to email accounts, voice messages, etc. Which means NOTHING. LOL It's a false sense of security, he knows that, I know that...but it is still one I need. It's not so much that I actually do snoop...it's that I have the permission from him to know what is going on with his life outside of "us".<p>Begin working on YOU! Watch your thoughts. Watch out for distorted thinking patterns. (The words "never" "always" "should".) It's very easy to decide for yourself what your spouse is thinking and why...and it's usually not correct. Try to empathize with his POV, even if you do not agree with it. Realize that it is his POV.<p>Please do seek counseling, even if he won't go...YOU go. Maybe as he sees you gaining strenght and courage and power in yourself, he will want to go with you.<p>Good Luck!

Thank you all for your responses. This web site was like hitting a gold mine for me. I absolutely felt like I had no where to go. It's hard to discuss these kinds of things with friends and family. I guess in some ways it feels embarrassing. You feel like you fell short somewhere. Justawifey, I am doing exactly those things that you said you did. Every day I am someone else. Some days I console myself real well, and others I'm freaked out again. My husb. and I talked about this again the other night. He gets so angry when I bring it up. He wants to move on. I understand that. It's easier for him to move on though than it is for me. I'm still the one in the dark. I actually feel better when we talk about it. I feel frustrated and angry when he closes the door on the subject. He says he will go to counseling but he thinks it's not needed because in his mind, he says he didn't sleep with her so it isn't all as bad as I'm making it. He thinks being just friends makes it all ok. If they talked occassionally I might buy it. but 5 -10 times a day 6 days a week. (I have all phone records) It sounds like there were deep feelings involved. I did get out of him that she made him feel good because she complimented him on things like being a good father, husband, good looking etc. He said he feels like I don't give him enough credit for these things. OK I can understand that. I am working on being more verbal about how I appreciate the things he does. We seem to be heading in a good direction so far these last few days. At any moment though (as you know) I can think about it too much, or suspect a lie and I go nuts about it all again. Well, I think the main thing here is that no matter if your heading the right direction to heal your marriage or not. It just is still so hurtfull. I suppose it will be many years before I can even begin to trust again. I feel so scared about the future. Something like this makes you really feel insecure. What may happen next? Will he fall so easily again??? I suppose you take it one day at a time. I guess I feel it would help me to know the full truth of it all. I still suspect there's alot I don't know. Do you think it would make you feel better even if the truth was even more hurtfull? I've never caught them in any act. Well, thank you again for all your wonderfull support.

h&l,,, one thing you may want to explain to your h is that although he may wish to put this behind him that it is you that has been hurt and now have this incredible need for honesty from him. to him it was just a friedship but to you his need for this ow friendship caused you very deep pain. it is so important for your h to understand that his actions have changed your relationship in a way that he needs to be more concerned with rebuilding the trust with you because of his lies then for him to just forget about it and move on. this attitude on his part does not give your emotions any respect.<p>some other things you may want to do are see a good marriage counselor, and try reading dr. harley's books "his needs, her needs" and "surviving an affair" together. it sounds to me that the first book is the most important book for the two of you right now as it will help you both understand more of each others emotional needs. i tried to get my w to read it with me years ago and she refused stating it was silly. well she became involved in a just friends affair and became pregnant. we are still together but her life has been filled with such pain and guilt over what she did and is now afraid of losing.<p>good luck with your marriage

I know exactly what you need from your H, even if he doesn't know. HONESTY!!! You're correct, you will move on from this painful past only on your own time schedule. I believe that almost ALL betrayers who know for them the EMA (emotionally based or not) is dead and over, only wish to bury it and forget that they were such fools to risk so much for so little. It's VERY hard for them to re-examine what they have done honestly. It's hard on their own egos, and they are also so afraid of losing what they now know is so valuable to them...their spouse, marriage, and family. THEY ARE AFRAID! The other side of this coin, is that it is so VERY hard for we as the betrayed to get our questions answered honestly for two reasons. 1. Fear, again! The betrayer is afraid of hurting us more then we have already been hurt. They want to protect themselves from being hurt by us, plus having to realize what harm they have done, not only to us, but to their own self-respect, and self-worth. 2. We usually are incapable of asking these questions without putting the betrayer on the defensive and whenever we do so, it almost always makes them hold-back and try to regain control of the situation.<p>Getting the truth is an on-going process for many of us, it was for me that's for sure. I tried at first the yelling and screaming and crying, which was VERY counter-productive (WRONG WRONG WRONG, but necessary for me, or so I thought). Even if he told me something...I didn't hear it! Hearing the truth which is painful when you're already in so much pain you can't see straight, you will miss it or misunderstand it, or it just overwhelms you. Since my response to "his little tidbits of truth", was less then positive for him, he would give me even less the next time around. We then went to writing each other. This for us worked very well. We used emails, instant messager services, etc. By writing, I had a way of "editing" my questions so that my questions were clear to him or if not he could ask me for more information on what I needed. He knew what information I was after and I was able to decide and THINK before he "heard" the question. (Did massive re-writes at times.) Then when he answered the question, I could re-read it and re-read it and re-read it again if needed to find understanding. I did NOT have to agree with him, but I did have to accept that this was "HIS" truth from his POV. Being able to re-read it was so helpful. When we first hear or read something that is NOT what we wish it to be, we hear it through the pain and we do not grasp it. Being able to come back, knowing basically what it said, gives us a chance to catch our breath and see the words for what they are. For H, it allowed him to answer my questions without having to look into my pain filled eyes...which so often stopped the words from coming. He also was able to edit what he said so that it was never "off the top of his head" and he could think about them. Often these written messages would later become face 2 face meetings where we then could talk about whatever we had begun in writing, as the painful blast of first knowing was over. It also allowed my H to tell me that he would need to come back later and tell me an answer after he reflected upon it. You may want to discuss this avenue of help with your counselor. And yes, do go for counseling. Even if your H is not gung-ho on the idea, you both do need some guidence. If it is as he says, then the counseling won't need to continue for long, but allow it to get you both over the "hump" and on the correct path for the BOTH of you. Plus, if I were you, I would also so a very good medical doctor for a complete check up to make sure that you are taking care of yourself, plus, I would advise anti-depression meds for the short term. You have a reason to be depressed, they are from outside issues, not inner ones, and there is some help for this. Anti-depression meds will make it easier to control the conflicting emotions, they will NOT make them go away. But, will give you the power to keep them in check for YOU! <p>But on the honesty issue...YES, you do need it, must have it, it is one of the most important building blocks in the foundation of your marriage. It's importance is ranked right up there alongside Love and commitment. BUT...YOU must be able to face the truth. Always try to remember, there is a difference from His truth, your truth, and THE truth. It is a combination of all of these. Right now you are interested in the truth of what happened. Once you get it, you both will discover that this is the easy truth as it is all about what actions happened, on what day and time. When you start on the "truth" of emotions, needs, lack of meeting of needs, past happenings between the two of you, you'll find that there is a vast difference of what is "his" truth and what is "yours". You'll discover that things were "assumed" as to how you/he felt, thought, reacted, to an event in your past that your H decided for himself what was going on in your mind. You will find that you have made the same mistake. You will NOT be able to change this. You can only accept that you both were wrong, you didn't know your spouse as well as you thought you did (A mistake all married persons make.) You'll be re-writing a lot of your histroy, as you will discover that your truth is not the real truth, his truth is not the real truth, but that there are bits and pieces of both that make up THE truth.<p>It is GREAT what you have already discovered. An important emotional need that was not being met by you. You are addressing this need and you are now being more open with your appreciation. WONDERFUL!<p>I would like to advise you to get a book. It is NOT an affair book. It is however a book that deals with all avenues of life (affairs are mentioned) and is mainly used for defeating depression. What I love about it is it works for EVERYONE, no matter what stage they are in. It attacks the problem of how we look at events in our lives and how our own distorted thoughts create much of how we respond to those events. It explains distorted thinking processes and makes us examine why we think what we do and how to overcome thinking negatively. It has "bookwork" that you need to fill out and address so that you understand your own mistakes in your thinking process.<p>Feeling Good, The New Mood Therapy Handbook by David D. Burns, MD. I would recommend that you get the one which includes the handbook since you are only now going through all these conflicting emotions and thoughts. It runs less then $20. There is a second book without the handbook (same title, without the handbook part) included which I found was better for me since I did NOT wish to re-visit all those old emotions which the betrayal involved and I had moved past. But you are needing to work out these emotions, so I do believe that the handbook would be of benefit. jmho This book is FOR YOU! It is not about changing anything your H did/does, it is about learning about yourself and helping you create your own power.<p>Trust! A hard one. It is so very backward and so very unfair (to the betrayed), but the only way to reclaim trust is to go ahead and give it even if it has not been earned. No, it will never, ever be the blind trust that you once gave, but that is not necessarily a bad thing. But lack of trust, is just deadly to any relationship. I'll bet that right now, you do trust him on some level. He's told you something that you accepted (he went to the store alone), you never even thought about it...until later. Then you thought, did he call her while he was gone, did they have a meeting set up for that time? We all give trust and then jerk it right back. Well, all he did was go to the store, so who suffered for this lack of trust? You did!<p>You will NEVER be able to control what he does. Only what you do. Can it happen again? Yup. It can, but will it? Do you want to live the rest of your life worrying about something that may never happen, destroying the joy in today? You also could worry every day and every night if the world is coming to an end. But, it won't change a thing. Just as if the world stopping happens...you're worrying about it will in no way change the outcome. But your worrying will decrease your enjoyment of life and create heartache during all the days that the world kept on spinning. <p>Sorry so long!