Hello Everyone,<p>God Bless all of you. I have been reading your posts for 2 months now and it has been so therapeutic and helpful for me to know that there is a place I can go where people understand how I feel and what hell all of this is.<p>I have been married for 10 years and my WH has been having affairs for over half of this time (5 1/2 years). We have read the Surviving an Affair book and are counselling with Dr. Harley. As far as my husband is concerned we are on the path to reconciliation.<p>My problem is that the pain is thankfully subsiding a little but is being replaced by intense anger. I am not a violent person but I find myself plotting ways to hurt both of them. He doesn't see her anymore, but I think about his car parked outside of her apartment, and me slashing his tires so he can't come home and is trapped by his lies. Don't worry - I would never really do this but it's fun to fantasize.<p>In any case, what I would like to do is notify OW's family about her relationship with my husband for the past 5 years. She is single and I would like to phone her mother and let her know how her daughter spends her time. I would also like OW's boss and colleages to know how ethical she is, sleeping with a married father of 3 children.<p>Is this reasonable or am I not thinking clearly? Has anyone done anything like this and what were the results? I am having a lot of difficulty getting passed this betrayal.<p>Together 10 years
BW (35)
WH (36)
3 kids - 2 boys and a girl
A - lasted 5 1/2 years!!!!
D Day - Jan. 29, 2002
[img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img]

Hi 2002es,<p> I share your thoughts of revenge. I sometimes justify my most evil thoughts as a way of manefesting and getting out my anger (my therapist says I surpress my negative feelings when I have a right to get them out). Believe me I have had very evil thoughts of revenge. I think that is part of the reason my H is scared to come home as he has told his sister. <p> It is my understanding to follow through on any of these revenge fantasies would be a major LB and in the long run do more harm than good. If your M has a chance of being rebuilt I say NO WAY! But in my case if my H does ultimately choose OW over me I am letting loose with everything I have to tarnish their reputations and ruin their lives forever while I still come out smelling like a rose. I will do some very clever things mind you, but I will not make myself look like a desperate fool. What comes around goes around. Instant Karma's gonna get you! <p> So for now I rely on the knowledge that I am a better person than the OW and I will not stoop the level I would have to get down to, to humiliate them right now. I will hold out on my evilness with the belief that my h is coming home.<p> I think it is ok to say these things and perhaps write them down and then burn them as a way of getting it out. But do not act on them, it will just set you back.
Forgiver

As an OW, I can tell you it may not be worth the effort. I WAS involved with him for several years. My family and friends knew of the relationship (even though they did not approve). Some close colleagues from work also of my relationship. Again, they did not approve. At least in my case, had W approached my family, work or friends, it would have come as no surprise.

Dear Forgiver and HappyFace,<p>Thanks for your speedy replies! Thanks to you I see that my thoughts are normal and most people have them, and that to follow through with them would be a mistake.<p>I know that a lot of you may think I'm lucky because my husband wants to reconcile and is doing everything in his power to win me back, but my opinion of him has now changed and I'm not sure I like what I see anymore. It's a painful discovery.<p>I feel so cheated and he stole the past 5 years from me - everything was a lie. I used to have a successful career and gave it all up to stay home and have his children. Of course I love my kids, but I honestly feel so trapped now and so unhappy. This is all so unfair. He is a selfish b***, and even our marriage counsellor expressed shock at what lengths he went to carry on his affair and keep it secret - and she has heard it all. He even went to Paris for 2 weeks last summer with the OW while I was in Toronto with my parents and children. He missed his son's 6th birthday.<p>How, how, how do you get passed this? I just want to do something really bad to both of them. He still doesn't really "get" how deeply this has affected me. I know this is absolutely wrong, but I would like to have my share of excitement now - why not! He opened this door - not me. I was so faithful and trusting. What a fool. I am good-looking, in shape, well educated and sick of this crap. The bottom line is that no matter what problems we were having, he was just plain selfish and these women boosted his ego. Well, what about my ego? I want to go on a trip and rediscover who I am and what I'm made of. If I happen to meet someone there I cannot promise to be faithful to him. I have removed my wedding bands and would NOT do it all over again.<p>Has anyone ese felt this angry? How do you get past it? He wants his family back - of course now that he's been busted!<p>Together 11 years
Married 10
BW - 35
WH - 36
3 kids - Brian, Jacob and Abby
A - lasted over 5 years with 2 women
DD - 1/29/02

I know exactly how you feel. I get extremely anger at what my H did. I found out he was having an A with a co-worker for 1 1/2 yrs. He was on 2nd shift and I worked 1st shift. She also worked 1st but would come back on this lunch break to see him. So he never had to account for time. She lives with an ex-father-in-law and a troubled 14 yr old daughter. My H would tell me of the problems the OW was having with the daughter, I assumed they were just friends. Anyway, when I found out about the A, I thought I would give the girl a call and tell her just what kind of woman her mother was. I figured this would get her angry at her mother since her mother "supposely" put her through alot of crap. Anyway it backfired, the daughter started swearing at me saying if I took care of my husband he wouldn't went with her mother. I was mad but just hung up. Later through lots of talks with my H did I find out that the OW pursued him, first by writing him a note saying she knows he's happily married but could do things for him I couldn't. At first my H said no but she continued to pursue him and make up excuses to see him and he did give in. I know it is not all her fault but my H isn't the type to go looking for it so if she would have backed off I think it wouldn't of happened. He told her from the beginning he wasn't leaving me and she tried to get him to. Anyway I still have lots of anger towards her so I had done other little things (none hurtful just inconvenient) to feel justified. So calling probably won't help. Think of this as the best revenge, your H chose to stay with you not her.

02,
I cannot say I have felt what you have felt, but I can say I've endured betrayal. Since it happenned, I too have often been tempted and even pursued by 1 woman -!a hot one too!
[img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>-it really felt good... a big ego re-builder... and I thought about sh**canning my WS... So far, haven't done it because I realized I didn't really want that. I considered just having some revenge... but I keep thinking about how devastated I was and still am. -and about how I want to end the hurt, not intensify, or add to it.<p>Perhaps you are like me in that you are not sure if you want to continue your M or not? All I know is that revenge is most definitely going to end it, or at least let my WS off the hook - she doesn't have to feel bad anymore if I do it too... and if it does not end it, my revenge would probably just make her more likely to cheat again... <p>One thing I truly believe: you can never "out-anything" someone you love -especially "out-revenge" them... because if you really love them, it seems they are always more capable of hurting you than you are of hurting them... In other words, as long as you love them you can never truly get revenge because even in the act of hurting them you are hurting yourself.<p>I also keep thinking of something I've read on this site... someone was telling a new comer about getting counceling and what to read, etc... and they followed up by telling them not to make any major life decisions for a while. <p>So I've decided to take that route... reading, counceling, introspection.... then I will decide whats next. I spend my time becoming even better at meeting her emotional needs... that doesn't necessarily mean I will stay... I've been s**t on plenty. -Love her or not, maybe it is time to leave.<p>If I do leave, then in some ways I feel like I've been setting her up for the biggest kick in the teeth I can give... I'm just not sure if I really want to kick her or not... <p>I believe love is a decision- and maybe I'll just decide to keep loving her... from minute to minute the answer changes... I'll let you know when I figure it out...???<p>One thing it does mean - if I do decide to leave, she will have no one else to blame but herself. She won't be able to say a damn thing about me - and if she does, she'll know she's a liar.<p>-and if I do leave she will regret her actions for the rest of her life (perhaps even more regret than she already has...) she'll know she f**ked herself (no pun intended) out of the best thing she ever had or could ever hope to have...

Dear unsureofme,<p>Your message really went straight to my heart and my head - thank you! You make such sense and I am following your theory. I think our feelings are similar. I would like to go on here but I just discovered something that has ripped my heart out AGAIN.<p>He went on an overnight business trip to San Diego last night and forgot his overnight bag. I unpacked it today, looked in his shaving kit and found condoms!!!! What would he need those for??? I am on the pill, the OW was on the pill and she lives here in Dallas, so why does he need condoms on overnight business trips????<p>I think he is picking up women or sleeping with prostitutes. What else could it possibly be? He comes home in 2 hours (10:30 CST) and I'm going to confront him.<p>I have that knot in my stomach again, the dry mouth, the sense of disbelieve and shock. It feels like D day is happening all over again. He is so good, so manipulative, he had me believing that he was "set free" as he says and he only wants me and the kids. For 2 months he has put us first, always let me know where he was, and has really been around for the kids. Our sex life has been incredible. I don't understand. This is too much for my heart to bear anymore.<p>Esther (35)
WS (36)
3 kids - Brian (6), Jacob (3), Abby (3 months)
Married 10 years
A lasted 5 years with 2 women
D Day - 1/29/02

Hang toough 02... our prayers are with you.

Dear Esther,<p>There's only one reason he would have condoms in his shaving kit, and you know what that reason is. Sorry, and I hope you're okay. He's nuts to put everything he has - a loving wife who enjoys incredible sex with him and three adorable children - in jeopardy for cheap thrills.<p>[ April 04, 2002: Message edited by: Bellevue ]</p>

Hey, I'm back.<p>The minute he walked in I confronted him about the condoms. He completely denied everything (surprise!) and said they were from the past - the way he used to be. He says he's never been with a prostitute or anyone else on his business trips and that those were put there a long time ago and he just forgot about them. He pleaded with me - how he's a changed man and how he loves us and wouldn't do anything to jeopardize that - things are so fragile now.<p>Honestly, my head's spinning and I'm so confused. I told him I don't really believe him anymore. He says he won't leave and that I'd have to walk over him to leave him and that he's honestly telling the truth. So I'll leave it for now.<p>But I just feel this wall around my heart getting taller.<p>I think I'll just continue to take it day by day until I get clarity. Am I weak? God, I hate this existence now. Some days are so great and hopeful and others so black and I just wish it would all end. When does this roller coaster ride stop?

Unsureofme - I am totally on your wavelength right now, I've was writing that exact reply to another post and didn't send it. Wow, I'm knocked for a total six about that (Aussie cricket saying, sorry I'm a true blue)!<p>02, I had the same experience re the condoms. Beware, they lie to get themselves out of it, he told me they were in there for when we went out driving together, thing is, we haven't been driving together for about 2.5months, I'm not that stupid!<p>You said you're really angry and want revenge. My understanding and experience has been that when you feel anger you are not acknowledging some pain. I hear your pain as the loss of the last 5 years, you feel cheated. Try to feel the pain mate, if you don't, and I know this from a past experience, you will get very depressed. Serious depression IS NOT FUN, if you can feel the pain now, do it, find it, work it out. Depression usual hits when you least expect it and you don't know why your depressed - very hard to deal with. <p>Maybe you could find a counsellor who understands more about working though anger and pain instead of one who seems to be inciting your anger (that's just my opinion from what you've said, I don't know your counsellor so can't make a judgement on it). <p>Try writing about what your angry about. Start with writing what you'd do to him or them, then write why that would make you feel better. Once you have got into that mindset, brainstorm and see what comes out, write every feeling or thought you have down even if it seems irrelevant right now - you may see the relevance later. <p>I'll think about this a bit more and reply again if I can, its really important for your emotional health es, that's why I crap on so much on here about how I feel, I know I've got to get the pain out, or it will eat me alive!<p>BTW, don't do the revenge stuff, because you'll end up feeling guilty and guilt is also a powerful emotion, and really, where will it get you? I have been there too, thought about ringing immigration, the drug squad, etc (long story), but it just dosen't seem dignified somehow, and I know the smugness will only last so long and will make H justified in being angry with me and leaving me. If he's going to leave me, I want a good reason, not a stupid one. Would my act of revenge be less hurtful than his-maybe, but its still wrong, and I would know it.<p>At least I can say I've tried my best, and treated everyone with respect (even OW), which is something I demand myself. Lets face it, whose to say I couldn't be where my h is? And I do have "high morals" whatever they are. Right now, I'd love someone to come and make me feel loved, but that would be temporary and I'd be in more of a mess! God knows I can't handle any more mess than what I've got right now!<p>[ April 05, 2002: Message edited by: Seahorse ]</p>

Unsureofme,<p>I got some great advise from a friend when I told him about what my H did. He said "Try to work it out, if it doesn't work you can make the decision then to ask him to leave. But if you ask him to leave now you'll never know if it would have worked out." He then said "Your decision is not set in stone you will always have the right to change your mind". This helped me a great deal, and by reading books most said not to make any life altering decisions right now anyway.<p>It is very tempting to do to him what he has done to me, but it wouldn't make my pain go away. Plus it wouldn't hurt my H as much as it has hurt me because the bond has already been broken.<p>2002ES,<p>That is a tough call with finding the condoms. I wish I would have seen your post before you confronted your H. I would have advise you say nothing but count them and next time he went on a trip count them again and if any were missing you'd have your answer for sure. Now he will be smart enough not to have them in his bag. I wish you luck, trust is something you lose when our spouses have A. <p>sty

Hi- last Easter I found condoms in my husbands car. |He had left me a couple of weeks before but I was and still am hoping for reconciliation. I took the decision to forgive him and chose to continue to love him. I told him what I had found and of my decsion. He is still with someone else but i felt better for the decision as I had nothing to feel gui;lty for. Jante

Thanks everybody-<p>You are all heaven sent and I'm so thankful I have this on-line support group that I can reach out to anytime. You all sound like such terrific people and it's just sad that we all have this forum in common.<p>Unsureofme,<p>Thanks for your words of wisdom. I won't pursue revenge (for now, but it sure is fun thinking about it). You are right - for now I've decided to stick around and I suppose the greatest kick in the teeth of all would be if I decided to walk after all of this. Hang in there - you sound like a terrific guy - she is VERY LUCKY I hope she knows this.<p>Seahorse,<p>G'day! I love your accent and flare for writing - you made me smile and that's a real gift these days. I'll look for your posts when I come back here.<p>Unsureofme,<p>Yes, I wish you'd seen my post about the condoms as well. I suppose I should've kept my big trap shut and just waited it out. The problem is that I believe him when he says they are from the past and he forgot they were in there.<p>I'll look for all of you as I read these posts (I do nightly - they are comforting somehow). Is there a way we can email each other without posting our email address publicly here?<p>Good night all.<p>Esther - (yes, this is my real name)
WS - 36
Married 10 years (5 of them wasted)
3 beautiful kids (my reason for staying in this mess)

2002es, just keep coming back here, it got me through some of the worst times. I've have never felt so low in all my life as I have at times over the last three months. But now I have a whole bunch of new friends that I can say just about anything to. that's precious!!<p>I'm glad your not going to do the revenge thing, but it can be fun to THINK of things. Then again, I know my husband is really really confused (a couple of his friends have told me that) so I figure I am being avenged and I don't have to lift a finger or strain my brain to do it!! [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] I also feel sorry for him, he's dug himself into a hole he can't get out of - that's the caring sharing part of me coming out. LOL!<p>I saw an article in the paper the other day, a doc suggested that when you're angry, you write it down on a piece of paper (as I suggested before) then burn it, which I think is a great idea. Then you never have to look or think about that again. Its kind of a symbolic "letting go". Anger is such a destructive emotion (I know, I've been there), and it dosen't get you anywhere.<p>Keep to the plan, keep working on you, when you go off track, bring yourself back on it. Eventually, it will become a habit and you will relax. I find its my ego that wants to go off on its own journey every now and then.<p>At times (such as five minutes ago) I think about "them" together, I feel the heaviness in my chest, so I just say, oh well and try to direct my thoughts elsewhere. Its really hard, because its easier to brood about it, but I know its not healthy for me, and I've still got a long way to go yet before me and H get anywhere(oh god!!) so I've got to keep my strength.<p>I read in SAA that the more you have to resent the harder it is to forgive. So the more you think about the horrible things they've done to you, the more you resent them. In the 5 love languages, it suggested forgiveness is a commitment not a feeling. That really hit home for me, because I was waiting to feel it. Now I know I got to try to commit to it (before I'm committed!!) [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>What I would like to know is why does it all seem to happen around the 10 year mark? Why is that such a doomed number?<p>[ April 08, 2002: Message edited by: Seahorse ]</p>

Hate to raise this topic from the dead but it aint dead for me...<p>I need some help. Nothing's changed... from minute to minute I want to stay, then go... I have shown her only a little of this... trying to stick to plan A but I have some VERY VERY ugly feelings toward her...<p>It was a 1-nighter and she's been extrememly remorseful. -or so it seems - but she has a way of just deleting any feelings she has that don't make her feel good. <p>She'll just delete the feelings later -but Right NOW, it is convienient and necessary for her to feel so bad... because I think she knows that despite my continued loving treatment of her, -and despite her trying very hard to make up for her mistake... -despite all that, I think she knows that deep down I have some really ugly feelings and I'm about to dump her like a bucket of sh*t... <p>People on this board would love it if there spouse felt as mine does - or if all they had to deal with was something as tiny as a 1 nighter and a remorseful spouse...<p>why can't I get rid of these terribly ugly feelings for her... I've never felt anything like it... there's only one thing I can think to describe it and that is pure unadulterated hatred. I still feel love too and feel like I'm going crazy...<p>Its like love and hate all mixed up in a huge tornado that is fixin to destroy my life and everything that was (or could again be) great about us.<p>I'm crazy- I do love her but then I flip and can't stop thinking of the way to end my M in the manner that is most painful for her as I can possibly make it. I even practice my delivery speech in the car on the way to work - I'm really furious and that brings it out of me too -what a freak I must look like at the stop light pounding the crap out of my steering wheel???<p>Its such a waste of energy- and I'm exhausted - especially because nothing I could ever do will ever hurt her as she has hurt me... and even if it does the act itself will hurt me more because deep down (right next to the part of me that wants to rip her heart out ) theres a part of me that would die to see her in half the pain I am in...

Dear Unsureofme,<p>boy, can I relate. I'm no expert on this by any means because I still fantasize about all of the ways that I could've gotten back at them (it's fun). Someone told me to write it all down and then throw it away. I can't say this helped me, but I have kept a journal through this ordeal and it really helped me to organize my thoughts and find some clarity.<p>I'm also so torn between love and hate. It's as though I'm 2 people - one who loves him and is working on forgiveness and moving forward, and the other one who absolutely can't believe I'm still with this guy. Like you, my spouse is begging me to stay but I'm not so sure either. I'm just taking it one day at a time.<p>Unsureofme, does she really "get" how much this hurts? I know Dr. Harley wants us to keep our cool but my therapist told me to express my anger and pain or I would become extremely depressed. And believe me I have been plenty angry. I just figured if he can't take the heat then it's better that I know now and cut my losses. He's still here and that's encouraging. I also put him on notice that I'm giving this a year and I'm giving it my best shot (for the kids). But, if in a year, I still feel like this then he's got to hit the road, and by the way, he's got no one to blame but himself for all of this. It didn't hurt either that I told him an old flame was waiting in the wings for me if it didn't work out (ok, so I embellished a bit). Boy, he's working for it now! <p>So I guess I'm saying that it's ok to be angry and you should express it to her. Pin her down if you have to and let her know what she's done to you (of course I don't mean violently). She needs to really "get" it before you can forgive her and it sounds like she's just not acknowledging it or taking responsibility. She should be working very hard for you to fall back in love with her.<p>Last month I called Dr. Steve Harley for a counselling session and he was excellent. It was the best money I ever spent and I would also highly recommend this if you're looking for some advice on how to deal with all of this.<p>Unsureofme, you really sound like a great guy and I'm sorry that you have to go through this. I'm sure my advice isn't the greatest but my heart goes out to you and this awful pain. Please hang tough and let me know how it's working!<p>Esther - BS (35)
WS (36)
3 great kids
D-Day Jan. 29, 2002

2002es,
I like you have been experiencing tremendous, intense anger. I shake, slam everything I touch, cry, sometimes cannot control tears-even in public. The intensity of the emotions since D-day has sometimes been scary. Almost a year ago I discovered my H having an EA with one
of his company's clients. Either it has dissolved or they won't communicate online anymore because I caught them, but now there are other numerous online EAs as well. Once I did address two of the women, one who was very seriously seeking my husband.(thank God she's across the planet)Easy to do when you just have their ID. To this day I wish I hadn't. It was a waste of time. He has them so convinced how wonderful a devoted father, loyal husband, etc. he is it enraged me to read it in his chats. They defended him savagedly and took no responsibility for involvement in making my marriage tougher by exacerbating our existing problems. They're blind to it. "I am his friend and if you can't handle that I'm sorry." I was laughed at and mocked by him and them the next times they talked.
More pain. Revenge doesn't help-or work really.
As far as the anger goes, I would like to know how am I supposed to physically give myself to this man (which I am not doing), deal with my anger and continual hurt and try to work on our marriage, while H says he's working on marriage but software says otherwise? The flirting and EAs continue, he has not put his wedding band back on-I believe he is merely doing lip service and shutting me up. As soon as I am out of the house he is online. What to do? The kids are watching-the three older ones know exactly what is going on. There is tremendous disrespect and anger-even rage. I am concerned there will be a physical confrontation one day. How do I deal with this?