Just read your last post on your thread... can you update...<p>I am thinking of you. I have youngest son's birthday party tonight... then we are leaving for Phoenix tomorrow... but I will check in later tonight...<p>Chin up... I know it doesn't seem like it now, but things do get better... it's just a long haul between the pain and the better...<p>Hugs,
Cali

^^bump^^

On my way to Phoenix... will be gone a couple days...<p>Hope you are well...<p>Cali

Cali,<p>Oh my GOD things are so bad. I don't know what to do. My H works 2nd shift and he comes home late. I know that he gets out at 10 but doesn't come home till 11-12. I am so sick of this. He is making me crazy...... I am trying my best to not LB but when he comes home I interrogate him. And yesterday he said for me to stop. I can't help myself. I was even going to follow him after work today...... I am also going to stake myself out by the OW house and see where she goes, I also have this terrible obsession to see how she looks. I don't know what is wrong with me. I think I am going crazy. Being like this is making my head and stomach hurt. My H swears that he hasn't see or talked to the ow but of course I don't believe him. What do I do??? By the way how was Phoeniz??? Did you have a good time? How is everything with you? Do things get better? Do they ever get out of the fog? My H said that things aren't working out, does that mean he is still seeing the ow? I don't know what to do..........

Lost:<p>Please go see a counselor as soon as possible. I know how hard this is to take without someone to talk to. Post to this forum as well. There are people out here to help!<p>I felt utterly lost myself on D-day back in January, then again in March. I can assure you that it does get better. I found out through email. I found out on D-day 2 through email snooping as well. I also realized that snooping was making me crazy, and I had to back off. Not stop altogether, because I wasn't getting the assurances I thought I needed, but definitely backing off and focusing on other things, like Plan A (which you should read about thoroughly on this site if you haven't already done so). The point now is to help yourself. When you do and you start showing more self-confidence, you have the greatest chance of attracting your H back to your M. You'll also feel better. <p>It will take time to completely get over this intense pain, and I guess in my case I have to say that it is far from gone, but I'm coping better than I ever did before.<p>Take care of yourself,
-regards.

2LONG,
How can I do plan A when he is nice one minute and nasty another. He is totally making me nuts. My couselor told me to make him tell me what he is going to do. But I think it is to soon to do that. What do you think? I feel like a doormat, because he basically does what he wants when he wants. And I can't handle that. Then he wonders why I beep him 10-20x.<p>I did order SAF but I have not received it yet. I am starting to give up on him, and I even feel like telling him to leave. This is so strange but I do truly love my H and always have. I guess that's why I am having such a hard time with this. He was such a good man & father, how could he have cheated me and his children. I still can't understand. And I am still lost.

lost:<p>Sounds like he's angry with himself because he's starting to realize the impact of what he's done, and he's taking it out on you. My W is STILL saying nice things one moment, and nasty things the next. I guess I've been able to cope better lately because I really do feel like I could make it on my own emotionally if I have to. People have been telling me all along that if I do a good Plan A, my self-confidence will be obvious and my W will be more attracted to that. I've been finding that's true, more and more. Even when I stand up to her illogic with some logic of my own and LB at the time, she ends up respecting me more for expressing my opinions with some confidence. I haven't voiced my thoughts much about how I believe I could go it alone, except when I felt the need to correct her assessment that I was "in counseling and W sometimes thinks she'll have to have me committed" (she actually said this to OM on my birthday last month). It's laughable now, but it really angered me then. But even though I haven't voiced it much, she can sense it in the way I behave these days. <p>It will take time, and one heck of a lot of work on your part, but you can make it! Post to this forum as often as you feel you can and need to. I must admit that since D-day, I've probably been working at about 50% productivity at work. Thankfully, I've got tons of vacation and sick time to burn, and so I've been doing that. <p>Once again, it will be hard, but you have lots of folks out here that have shared very similar experiences that can be of help.<p>Take care of yourself,

2long,
I really don't know how you do it? All I end up doing is crying and now I think my H thinks it is a bunch of b.s.. It feels like it just happened yesterday. Today was a good day untill we went shopping and he went to the car without me and our daughter. (I was in the ladies room). Anyway, I was very angry. When my daughter and I finally made it to the car I told my H "Thanks for waiting for us". Well that was it. Now he is angry.... He said that I yelled at him. What the heck, why is he is acting like a child? I am really really trying not to LB but come on, do I have to walk on egg shells and wonder what his next move is going to do. That is how he is making me feel. Well later on today I told him exactly how I felt. And he didn't say anything. I told him that from now on I was going to tell him how I feel and how he makes me feel when he says things to me. Is this making deposits? Or withdrawls? I am trying to be make as many deposits as possible but he is making it very difficult. He told me that he wasn't in love with me and he misses the ow and he can't help that he fell in love with her. I said you feel in love with her? Then he said that he didn't know. WHAT............. He told me that he use to see her after work and they would meet at a bar and talk, which just happen to be at 12midnight and even later. HOW NICE..... I told him how can you care about someone that all you did was drink with at a bar??? What kind of person goes out late at night and meets a married man with children. He also told me that she knows he is married and stopped seeing him in December due to that reason. But like I wrote before he went to her house last month. And the ow continues to beep him. Should I call her? Oh my GOD I feel like doing more to her then calling her.... And I still have to find out how she looks. WHY???? All this maddness? How do you handle all the nasty things they say? What do you do when they won't talk to you? So many questions? How are things going with you? Getting better???? I sometimes wish I had never called the ow number and found out. What a terrible terrible feeling. It was worse then the death of my Father........... 2long, can you truly tryly tell me that making deposits helps? What happens when you LB? Did things back track for you and your S? So many questions? Please hear me out, I am still lost........

I know your pain all too well. Most of us on MB do. I know how you feel when you say that this is harder than the death of your dad. When I was first dealing with my FWH's A's, I felt worse than I did when my SON died!! It's as painful as painful can be.<p>The best advice I have for you is to vent on here. Do NOT tell your H your feelings if they are NEGATIVE feelings. That will only withdraw from his love bank. <p>I was never able to master the no LBing thing. It just wasn't in me. However, if I could do it all over again, I would talk to my doctor about going on anti-depressant medication. I am on it now (for just over 1 month), and can feel the difference. I can only imagine what wonderful things it would have done for my plan A if I had done something about it then.<p>And please, do your marriage a favour and STOP CALLING YOUR H AT WORK!!! (or when he's out of the house). You wrote that you page him 10 to 20 times a day???? You're pushing him away by doing that. <p>You need to learn how to do things one at a time as you work on your plan A. You are NOT a doormat. You just have to learn how to better yourself. My suggestion is to start by ceasing your pages to your H. One thing at a time.<p>You cannot change what your H will do. You can only change yourself and control YOUR ACTIONS. Ideally, your H will see these changes in YOU, and he will see the error in his ways, and change as well.<p>Karen

lost:<p>I know this doesn't sound like much of any encouragement, but what you're going through, and even how your H is behaving, is very normal for people in your situation.<p>"I really don't know how you do it? All I end up doing is crying and now I think my H thinks it is a bunch of b.s.. It feels like it just happened yesterday."<p>I still cry! And yes, my W has said, many times, that this site and the books are "simplistic and stupid." My W has a MS in Anthropology, and thinks she knows! I actually believe that I know more about what's going on in her mind right now than she does! I'm serious. I really believe that I've learned more about human behavior in the last 3 months than I did in the previous 48 years of my life. Too bad I had to go through this to "take an interest" in learning about it. I don't want to pretend that I've got all the answers, or that I'm even doing okay most of the time, but I can assure you that you will start to feel better over time. But it will take a lot of work.<p>"Today was a good day untill we went shopping"<p>I had a lot of very good days that wound up in awful arguments. Just 2 days after D-day, something set my W off and she screamed at me at the top of her lungs in the car. I almost got out and walked home - 3 miles. Things like that happened about a half dozen more times over the first 2 months. Real hell, really. Near the end of the 2nd month, we were out of state at her grandparent's old home in the high desert. I went out walking into the desert after a nasty argument about OM. I walked over 12 miles and started back in near-blizzard conditions. She was absolutely livid with me, and I didn't tell her for several days that I had suicidal thougths (for the last time, I'll add!) while on my "walk." Things have been better for the most part since then, but my W STILL won't agree to no contact with OM (who lives in another state, fortunately), and doesn't even like me to ask for updates when he does contact her. So I'm far from out of the woods, yet. I just am focusing on what I can do for myself and my kids, first and foremost, but I also do things for my W, particularly going places with her and being loving and caring (because she's starting C'ing, and some of her really serious psychological baggage is starting to come up to the surface, and so she's getting depressed and scared herself!).<p>"What the heck, why is he is acting like a child?"<p>Because, when the aliens abducted him, all they left of his brain was the child part! Check out WorthATry's (WAT's) Quick Start Guide for Betrayed Spouses (in the archives) for some pointers on what to do in starting to deal with this new situation. It really helped me. <p>"I am really really trying not to LB but come on, do I have to walk on egg shells and wonder what his next move is going to do. That is how he is making me feel."<p>Since he's not capable of rational thought right now, you have to do that for him (and you, and your kids), unfortunately. So, the short answer is that you do have to walk on eggshells. I've been doing that as much as I can, but I still LB at least once a week! <p>"Well later on today I told him exactly how I felt. And he didn't say anything. I told him that from now on I was going to tell him how I feel and how he makes me feel when he says things to me. Is this making deposits? Or withdrawls? I am trying to be make as many deposits as possible but he is making it very difficult."<p>I think this depends on your interaction with your H. In general, I think most people will tell you that what you're doing is a good idea. But be careful about how you tell him how you feel. If you're distraught all the time, he'll not respect you, as you'll appear pitiful and clingy. If you're strong (not easy to do, but will get easier with time), he'll want to see more and be around you more. This will deposit love units for sure. It "pulls a good vacuum" (aka, it sucks) to have to compete with the OP, but unfortunately that's what we have to do. Read this website, you'll see that you have some real advantages over the OW, particularly once he starts to realize what a fantasy relationship it is with her.<p>"He told me that he wasn't in love with me and he misses the ow and he can't help that he fell in love with her. I said you feel in love with her? Then he said that he didn't know. WHAT............. "<p>This is FOG talk! His brains are scrambled, and so it's impossible for him to make sense right now!<p>"What kind of person goes out late at night and meets a married man with children."<p>A low-life bottom dweller!<p>"Should I call her? Oh my GOD I feel like doing more to her then calling her.... "<p>Try to resist this. I haven't even emailed the OM yet. Hope I never have to.<p>"And I still have to find out how she looks. WHY????"<p>I think this is natural. I don't know whether it will do you any good, but at least knowing who she is will give you the ability to avoid her if you run into her in a store or something. I don't remember what my W's OM looks like. I met him once about 12 years ago at a party - and his cute W and baby. I don't think I want to know what he looks like now, because he's 12 years younger than I am. At least I have the advantage that for most women, physical attractiveness isn't what lures them into A's. But then there's the emotional attraction, and since my W's A was 11 years long (though she says it was a friendship most of that time), the emotional attachment is going to be the hardest for her to overcome.

"All this maddness? How do you handle all the nasty things they say?"<p>I get very, very hurt. And I still will cry in front of my W when she does these things to me. Earlier on, I did little about it - just took it. But with time, I've been better able to calmly point out when she's saying hurtful things, and in some cases she's trying not to say them. Still a long way to go, because this is one of the core problems with our M over the past 12 years or so that has to be dealt with if we're going to continue together. But I'm getting more hopeful with time.

"What do you do when they won't talk to you?"<p>I try to talk to her. Sometimes that works. If it doesn't, I'll work on myself, read and post a lot for support, and work with my son on a couple of model planes we're building together. Kids are a great way to make you feel better and distract you from dealing with your WS. <p>"How are things going with you? Getting better????"<p>Yes, as I've said. But still hard. <p>"I sometimes wish I had never called the ow number and found out. What a terrible terrible feeling. It was worse then the death of my Father..........."<p>My W still wishes I hadn't found out. I'm better off knowing. I think honesty is the most important thing for me. I would hate to think what our relationship would have been like over the years if she continued to live the lie, even if her A was truly over. Dealing with this has been far worse than watching my mother die. It's also far worse than what we've been going through since October, when we had a major fire in our historic landmark house. We're moving tomorrow for the 3rd time in 6 months, and they've only just started working on our house. It's going to be at least 6 months more before we can move back, and about a year before the contractors are done - then we get to paint and wallpaper for probably another year or so. I sure hope my W's A is "ancient history" by then!<p>"2long, can you truly tryly tell me that making deposits helps?"<p>I think it really does. I didn't think so much early on, but I didn't have anything else to work with. the MB methods on this website will seem simplistic and silly at times, but they really do work. <p>"What happens when you LB? Did things back track for you and your S?"<p>I think so. Some LBs early on, like my W finding out I was reading her email, set me back to square one (you'll read a lot of such cases on this forum). I've decided to stop snooping altogether since then, but not everybody works their own situations that way. My W's OM isn't nearby, though, so it would be very hard for them to get together without my knowledge well in advance. Not like yours and others' cases where OP is nearby.

"So many questions? Please hear me out, I am still lost........ "<p>No problem. I feel for you! Have you seen a counselor? If not, do so as soon as possible. They really can help. Also read on this website and continue to post! There are a lot of good folks with experience here that can help. <p>I may have a hard time logging in for a few days because of the move, but I'll check in from time to time if I can. Hopefully, some other MBers will chip in!<p>Take care of yourself!
warmest regards,

Lost,<p>I hope you don't mind me jumping in....<p>It can get better, partially with time but more importantly with action on your part. That action is plan A. <p>dday for me was 10/01, but Wh had been mean, angry and critical for over 2 years prior to that. It REALLY wears on a person. Before I found out the reason he was acting like that (A's) I already started a plan a of sorts with out realizing it. What helped me was to say "I can't loose something I don't have" At times I had to keep saying that over and over. <p>I snooped for 4-5 months till I was certain of what was going on, that I didn't feel crazy that it was just me. Then I stopped snooping (last 3 months) it feels better.<p>There is some good advice on these boards. We been through this and yes it can seem like your whole world is caving in on you.<p>What you have doing is NOT working, so stop doing it. Hard, I know. Stop, breath, get meds or if want info on natural alernatives let me know. when you think of calling him, say NEXT, and think of something positve instead. Do it over and over if you have to.<p>For me, prayer is the only thing that is getting me through. I will pray for you & your situation.<p>REad, Read, Read, post on these boards, as knowlege is power. As you begin to feel better about yourself, you will be treated better.<p>We all want you to get through this and look back and say it was extremely painful, but look how much I've grown.<p>One last thought, Do you have a vision of your RESTORED M? If not, think of that & focus on that vision.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>By the way how was Phoeniz??? Did you have a good time? How is everything with you? Do things get better? Do they ever get out of the fog? My H said that things aren't working out, does that mean he is still seeing the ow? I don't know what to do..........
<hr></blockquote><p>Phoenix was fabulous!! H and I are looking forward to our summer getaway when we drop the boys off there this summer! <p>Yes, things get better... but YOU have to take charge of YOU... Your H is incapable of dealing w/ you and your feelings right now. He is one confused pup. You have to step back and away from him (figuratively) and give him some space to deal w/ what he has done in his life... while you do that... figure out yourself. I read a ton of books plus am in counseling... also, for me, finding a personal relationship w/ God has been the MOST important step I could take...<p>Your H is saying things aren't working out, because right now he doesn't want them to... it would involve too much work, too much introspection, too much guilt... that's why he needs space (again, figuratively). Give him plenty of room to let that 'fog' dissipate some... give him some perspective... <p>When you chase too hard, they run faster the other way... let him come to YOU...<p>Hugs,
Cali

topie25,<p>Thank you, thank you. You are totally right. It has been very very hard for me not to snoop, but I still find myself doing so. But not as much. And I am trying to stop calling H work/beeper. You are 100% true, When I wait for a return call and H doesn't call back I actually make myself sick. So today will be the 1st day that I am not going to call/beep H, lets see what happens.
It is so hard for me not call especially when H said he would call the kids. That kills me......
I thought that you should tell you S how you feel. I purchaed SAF/HNHN on the net, but still have not received it. I wish they would come.<p>As for med's I am on Wellbutrin and have been on meds since December. What the funny thing is my H made me go see a therapist. He said that I was not acting right. So I went and began counseling and med's. (Sep 2001). I can't even imagine how I would have reacted when I found out if I wasn't on meds. But all along he was with ow. That is another reason that I am having a really hard time with this. H said that it was me and all along it was him. H even called my best friend to tell her to ask me what was wrong. H told me back in September that he wanted to leave and still hasn't gone anywhere. But you know something, at least I know that it wasn't me and that does give me some peace of mind. I didn't find out about ow till March 12, 2002.<p>Thank you for you advice, I really took things to heart, believe me. The only person I can change is myself and I am trying my hardest.<p>As for LB I am getting better at it but I do find myself saying things but not as often. Today I was suprised. When he was leaving for work, I dressed really nice and he kept on asking me where was I going. I told him out for a ride since it was almost 80 today. Well when I was out front getting in my car, he pulled up and asked me again (h was on his way to work). This time I said that I was going to follow him for awhile. H started to laugh and so did I. H told me to be careful and I told him the same and we kissed. Oh my GOD that had to be the most wonderful thing that happened today, then he has to go blow it and not call all day. Mixed messages make me crazy. But I do know that I can't change my H. <p>I am trying to answer everyone but am having a hard time doing so. Any suggestions?
________________________
Together 18 years, married 10
d-day 03/12/2002
2 boys (9 & 6)
1 girl (3)

however you want... some people answer all in one post... others respond post for post...<p>take your time and do what you can do.<p>Hugs,
Cali

2long,<p>Is that why you call yourself 2long? You are awesome. Thank you.... Your insight has made me think of alot of things.<p>What does Anthropology have to do with psychology?
W sounds like my H. Do they think they did us a favor? I was reading in a book ATA and it stated that sometimes the WS actually think they are doing the BS a favor. WHAT????????? <p>When I first found out, I ran out of the house and jumped in my car and was actually going to drive off a bridge. Then I thought, HELL NO.... I am not going to let the ow play house with my kids. My children are what make me strong. When I see them happy I get happy. )Well for at least alittle while). I cry alot and my oldest always says don't cry MOM I will take care of you. My children do not know what happened they just know that we are having problems and all adults have problems but it has nothing to do with them and we are working on making things better.<p>What's with the contact thing that they don't understand. I bet if the shoe were on the other foot they would be livid, just as we were. My H said that he can't promise me that he won't see the ow. That's a major reason I am also finding it hard to believe him. If he were to tell me the sky was blue, I wouldn't believe him. <p>I am trying to go with my H too. I use to tell H to take the boys to the show/park. And on Sunday he told me that we are going to go everywhere as a family. I didn't know how to take that but I just said ok.. I don't know if he was being sarcastic or not. I am also trying not to cry and when I find myself on the verg I just get up and tell him that I will be right back. Today in the morning he was very clingy with me, it was like he didn't want me out of his sight. Major fog. Oh my GOD I wish I was a mind reader.<p>As for snooping, I am trying not to. I also find this site helpful. The only thing I have to tell you the truth. I have told a few friends but all they could tell me was "I would of" situations. No one will ever know how hurtful this is unless they have been thru this themselves. That is why I find this site helpful. And I am thankful for people like you.<p>I still haven't called the ov but still have to find out how she looks. I don't want to sound conceided but I am very attractive but over weight. But since d-day I have lost 30lbs.. My H said for me not to lose weight for him, and I told him not to flatter himself. I told him that I am doing it for me. He didn't say anything to me after that. But he has told me that I was beautiful the other day. TALK ABOUT SHOCKED....<p>Are you any better? Well it hasn't been that long for you either. So I thank you for giving me some kind of hope. Count your blessings at
least the om is not 10 minutes from your W work.<p>How is your house coming along. When it rains is pours. My FATHER passed away in June 01, Sep 18 2001 I was layed off and on the 22nd my H said he was leaving. In March 12, 2002 d-day... What a wonderful life................ Maybe when your house is restored you can start a real beginning with you W. With all that drama how can you even think. But I am in the same boat with you, the problem I have is I can't swim. <p>Take Care,
__________________________________
Together 18 years, married 10
d-day 03/12/2002
2 boys (9 & 6)
1 girl (3)

Everyone,<p>I just blew it, I was going to not beep him and I did. And guess what H is waliking in right now. How dumb...........<p>Till tomorrow.

WillGetThruThis,<p>I do not mind you joining, it is a pleasure. Sometimes I may not answer you for a few days but when my H is home he gets moody if I am on the internet. So to avoid problems I don't get on. <p>It has been getting better (well today at least). I am working on plan A. And it is working. My H keeps on telling me what are you up to? This isn't you. I told him that life is to short to let everything bother me. Before H's A, I was always cranky and I use to let everything bother me. I was also dealing with alot of issues. And to tell you the truth my H was the last person I was thinking of. My family meaning my parents/brother had alot to do with it and yes I was putting them first. But isn't that what a daughter is suppose to do??? My H finally told met that he didn't feel as though I was putting my immediate family first. H was right, but I never knew that was what I was doing. Things have changed....... I finally realized that they should be first and now they do. <p>You stated that your d-day was in 2001, oh my goodness. How are you and your H? Is he not living with you? Plan B? Tough love, it it working?<p>I loved you theroy "I can't lose something that I don't have". Great, as of today that's what I am going to say.<p>As for the beeping/calling I ceased that as of yesterday. Well I beeped him only once but he didn't receive it till he was home and I had a chance to erase it before he has a chance to even look at his beeper. I tell you I still snoop but not as much. I need clarity and I am not getting it from my H. He just tells me not to worry. YAH RIGHT.................... I did feel crazy untill I discovered MB, not I feel normal. Just a real human reaction. <p>As for religion, I am having a hard time with it. You see my FATHER

WillGetThruThis, (continued)<p>was very ill for 7 months and believe me I did pray. He passed away last year. I did pray and he still died. That is why at this point in my life I am so lost. It seems as if I have lost just about everything that was dear to me. My Father/My Job/And my H. I am just finding it hard to pray right now. Maybe that is what I need to do.<p>Actually today was a good day untill H called me this evening and said that he will be home late. Now you know what I'm thinking right. (ow) I will try not to think about it but it is very difficult for me not to.<p>WillGetThruThis, I will get thru this. It is just so painful. Can you believe that I am crying as I am typing this. I am on med's. I dont' know what I would have done it I wasn't. <p>I will also try to vision my RESTROED M. But for now I am just trying to survive daily.<p>Thanks.
______________________
Together 18 years, married 10
d-day 03-12-2002
2 boys (9 & 6)
1 girl (3)

Cali,<p>I am happy that you had a fab time. Good for you and your H. I wish it were me and my H. Only time will tell for us. <p>I actually read your response a few days ago and have been thinking. I am giving him space and I am also stepping back. I was pushing myself on him. And I am not doing that anymore. I think it may be working because today he asked me if I meet someone. Or if I meet someone to talk to. Is that fog???? Something else happened today. When I was listening to my favorite song. He also knew it was my favorite song. He said isn't that your favorite song? I was really suprised that he remembered. Well anyway he came upstairs where I was and he held me and we danced and kissed. Too much for me. I cried... Only because I couldn't help but think why would you do such a thing to me but I was also enjoying it.
It was wonderful and heart breaking. I think I must have been on the wildest rollercoaster made for man....<p>Cali, thank you for your advice. This is going to be a long trying journey for me but with support from people like you, it has made this much more understandable. I hope one day I can be giving advice.<p>How are things going with your H? Has your
journey been worth while? It sure sounds like it has. When was your turning point? Was there even one? <p>Talk to you soon,
Lost
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Together 18 years, Married 10 years
d-day 03-12-2002
2 boys (9 & 6)
1 girl (3)
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lost...<p>it has been an incredible journey... Nicole Kidman described hers as surreal and I think many of us echo her thoughts.<p>It is almost one year to d-day and I am beginning to pull my thoughts together for an anniversary post...<p>I mostly post on GQII, so if you do a search on my member # most of my posts will turn up... I had some weird stuff happen this past summer because I told my H and OWs H about this site... they in turn told OW who tracked me down here... so I posted under other names for awhile... like I said, it has been a wild ride.<p>Things are favorable for my H and I. Since he initiated no contact w/ OW in January I have seen many changes in him as have family and friends. I have hope today when last year I had none.<p>I found my main strength in God. You cannot fail when you lean on Him. <p>I would suggest that you post urgent questions on GQII as it gets more 'traffic' and you will probably get more responses.<p>Good luck. I will be looking out for you.
Cali