Not sure what all this means. But I was searching my wifes private email acocunt and discovered a couple of strange things.<p>First I found that she saved a picture the OM sent to her of himself. This picture was sent to her old email address, which was closed. She then forwarded it to her new address. Plus she also saved an email that she told me she sent to OM. She basically told him off in her email. The things is it was not being sent to him. SHe sent it to herself instead. I do not know what to make of all these things. <p>One other thing I did come across, was that she had an email sent to her and a bunch of other hotmail addresses were listed. The reason I think this is strange is because I think they are other accounts of hers. All the other addresses start with rml and then the next 2 numbers or letters are slightly different from one another.<p>I think W is still talking with OM. We are going away on vacation next week and I do not want to bring this up just yet. I think I need to find out more, before going to her. My other fear is that he might be flying to where we are going. He mentioned that to W before about flying in to see her. Not sure what she said.<p>I think this time our marriage might be doomed. From her comments last time about this thing and the OM, she basically said she cannot keep talking about this and wants it to end. Knowing my wife she will either confess to what's going on or want some time apart from me. She has a good way of turning it on me. I guess if I have some hard proof, then she cannot turn it on me. But I think our marriage will collapse. Maybe she wants it this way and can place blame on me. Could be easier to live with the guilt. <p>If I find out she is still talking with OM. Then I am going to contact OM and have some not so friendly words with him. My W will not be getting off easy either. <p>Time to choose! Either him or me! Talk about not being able to live with this anymore.<p>Really pissed off and do not know what to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Contacting the OM will do you no good; at least in that context.<p>I do recommend you obtain proof. There is software out there that will help you do so (www.spectorsoft.com for example). Please be aware that if you ever want to recover your marriage, you will eventually need to be honest with her about using such software.<p>If you do find proof, I recommend you use the letter available from the SAA book to contact your wife and the OM.

If she is using Outlook Express, you can right click on the email, go to and click on details and see all of the addresses that the email was sent to and from. She may have sent it to OM and a copy of it to herself so that she could refer to it if she needed to. You didn't say how old the email was, but make sure you have your ducks in a row before confronting her. <p>Hope this is helpful.

She uses hotmail.<p>The emails are old and she does send to people by using her email address as to and from. I think she bcc's on a lot of emails.<p>The email picture was before this whole thing really came to light and before I called the OM. Maybe she just saved it in this folder for the time being and has forgotten about it. I hope!!!!!<p>What leaves me so confused is that we communicate well with each other and we are still intimate with one another. Actually that part has been more often over the past few months. Both of us are educated, where as the OM is not. Maybe it was just some emotional thing. Who knows? Surely not me.<p>Cannot figure this whole thing out. Argggggggggg.

something wrong,<p>IMVHO. Keep this to yourself. Plan A'ng your butt off. Listen, listen, listen to her complaints about you in M ... address each one of them. On her mind your M maybe over so do not push it. If you know OM or research about OM, see what EN(s) is he fillin ?, could you compete w/ it. The whole plan in here is using the information to measure your sucess in your plan A'ng. Do not second guessing on the motives and so on, think of the worst, think of there is contact. Lower expectation, I called it.<p>Don't waste your time, plan A'ng you butt off.<p>good luck -RH-

Hi something wrong,<p>I really feel for you. You are going through what has been the worst part for me so far. Your gut is telling you something is wrong. You want to believe your W, but you can't let go of this totally overwhelming feeling. You trust your W for awhile and let it go, but then it starts eating at you again, and you start snooping again - just in case you missed something.<p>You need to know the truth. I completely understand. The not knowing is what drove me crazy. I spent countless hours at the computer trying to find out what was going on. The more I looked, the more confused I got. That's when I got spector. I'm not saying you should. But I want to tell you my story. <p>I downloaded it and it sat for a couple of days before I used it. I was scared I would find something (still hoped I wouldn't) and I was scared my H would never forgive me for spying on him. But I knew I couldn't go on the way I was. If my H couldn't forgive me, then I was better off without him. It was his actions that made me do it. I felt my H would understand, and he did. He was more shocked I think, than angry. <p>When I saw that the OEA was still going on, my world fell apart. It was hard, but like I said, not as hard as not knowing, because I basically knew, I just had to be sure. <p>When I confronted my H, I first showed him a picture I had found (not from the recording, but one that he mistakenly left on) and told him I knew it was still going on and that I knew he was chatting with her the previous night.<p>He initially denied it, but when I was firm, he admitted it. I then asked questions (one's I already had answers to from the recording) to see if he would be honest. He wasn't. I pushed again, giving him another chance to be honest. He wasn't. Then I showed him the recording.<p>A feather could have knocked him over. He was in total shock. He may also have been angry, I'm not sure, but my anger consumed me and I turned it on him. <p>I still have the recording running. He knows and understands why I do. I think he may have been tempted to contact the OW, but this stopped him. He could have gone to another computer, but I think reality hit him and it just wasn't worth it.<p>We have been through alot and have moved forward. He has come around and has told me everything (I only recorded for one week, so I still had alot of questions) and we are going to counselling.<p>I truly believe spector saved my marriage, rather than ruin it. My H made a mistake. He is a good guy and I knew he would understand my choosing to use spector. I was still scared, but I believed in him and his character. He is not angry at me, he understands.<p>I'm not sure how your W will react. You would know. Any only you can decide what to do.<p>I'm sorry this posting is so long, but I felt you needed to hear the story.<p>Let me know how it's going for you.
H&S

One other thing...<p>Our marriage was better than it had ever been. Even my H says so. So why did the OEA continue? I think it's an attachment or addiction that is very hard for them to let go of. My H said that he wanted our marriage to work, and it was, but he still wanted her there, just in case.<p>H&S

re....... One other thing I did come across, was that she had an email sent to her and a bunch of other hotmail addresses were listed. The reason I think this is strange is because I think they are other accounts of hers. All the other addresses start with rml and then the next 2 numbers or letters are slightly different from one another.<p>I've seen a lot of this type on thing in hotmail.I take it this email was not from a friend but instead was some kind of advertisement. An email will be sent to sht0002, sht0004, sht23985, and so forth. It does not mean that those are all her accounts. It usually means that the sender is doing a shot gun type approach to emailing. Either they have an alphabetical email list and send out to only a few in each email. Or they are Trying to get as many hits as possible by guessing at similar names.<p>I have received hundreds of emails in hotmail that were addressed just as you say.<p>[ April 10, 2002: Message edited by: zorweb ]</p>

Dear SW,
I have been lurking on your thread for awhile, since your situation seems so similar to mine, and I am struggling with the same issues - the need to know the truth, whether or not to snoop, what to do with the info you pick up, what does it all mean. Unlike HurtfulandSad, I'm not sure my H would forgive me if I were ever to use Spector, so I haven't taken that step yet.<p>I'm in a strange interim period right now. Basically, as I see it, what we (you, me and people in this position) are trying to do is get to square one with our spouses, which is to stop the ongoing A. If they have promised to give this person up (as my H finally said he would do 2 weeks ago), how do we know they are telling the truth, especially when they have demonstrated their capacity for bald-faced lying so many times in the past.<p>In my case, 2 weeks ago, I decided it was time for plan B - my monitoring of his e-mail a/c through the saved History function on our IMAC had revealed that despite my confrontations with him, he was continuing to see her, in fact, seeing her more often than before, lying about it, and also, that despite my being honest and open in the e-mails in which I politely confronted her, SHE was continuing to flirt heavily with him and engineer meetings.
She went back home for Easter break, and is due back soon (I'm not sure when exactly).<p>While she was gone, I lowered the boom on my H - I told him I had seen a lawyer, and that he had no chance of taking the kids away from me, that I was no longer willing to live with him on these terms - that since he claimed the right to a private life, which I did not agree with, this was basically changing the terms to a marriage which we had both freely entered into. I could not be held to a marriage where the terms were changed without my knowledge and consent, so I considered the marriage over and wanted him to move out. I also showed him how I accessed his e-mail a/c - I have printed out all the correspondence between them and its with my lawyer. He was initially furious - furious that I had spied on him, and he still is v angry about that. He also has a code lock on his cellphone.<p>I went out, and after I came back later, he wanted to talk, finally, calmly and sensibly. He finally told me some of the things I needed to hear - that he didn't want any additional R - that he wanted our R to work - that he knew he had to "wrap it up" with her and that he would - he admitted that he had liked having a R without any responsibility, but that he now realized that this was very "costly". He also booked himself in for IC, saying that he was "the one with the problem".<p>So I have stayed. For now. He has had his first IC - a prelim session - they are supposed to ring him with another appt once they decide who is the best person for him to see. He wants to have some IC before any joint sessions. In the meantime, he has neither taken the code/lock off his cellphone, or given me the password to his e-mail ac, which he still actively uses every day. I can no longer see it b/c he wipes the History every time he uses it. Does he still have something to hide?
I think so. Do I still love him? No. I am now a very tired wife, tired of being used and abused. <p>I am full of resentment and anger. But I am trying to concentrate on more positive things - like getting training for a better job so I can leave him later in the future if our recovery does not go well, or if he does this again. This EA is finite - the OW goes back to France in June sometime, so in any case, the meetings will stop, and unless she breaks up with her BF, I doubt that the online contact will continue.<p>The only positive step I can take with my H is an exercise I have set myself - to try to say one positive thing to him each day about himself - I have to do this, or I spend each day hating him. After all, no one is entirely bad, and there were a lot of good things about him that attracted me to him in the first place. I have to start over again every day. But it seems that when I do this, the space between us gentles a bit - the other day, he even reached out to hold my hand while we were on a walk with the children. <p>I am agonizing now over whether or not to put Spector on the computer. I'm thinking right now that I will wait through the summer - give "the Veela" (that's what I call HER) a chance to disappear, and him a chance in counselling. Then I will put it on, and say that I have done it in order to be able to watch what the kids do on the internet. That may make him watch his step.<p>And then I can handle the cellphone issue.
this is a long-term plan. <p>My heart goes out to you.
Odile

So strange to hear so mnay stories like mine. I have decided to take a step back and rethink what I am doing. For now I will just keep a close eye on anything that looks funny to me and will listen to my gut feeling. I do know that my W used her calling cards to talk with OM. More often then she first told me. The charges were appearing on our home phone bill. I never did tell her that I knew they were from her calling cards. She has handed me over one of the cards and she will keep one for herself(emergency reasons). Seems like it could be a good start. Cannot find OM's number anywhere in the house. W says she threw it out when she called him and yelled at him for what some of the remarks he stated to me. W said she called him the day after I called him and had a conversation with him. This part I know is true, about W calling. The phone bill shows the call she made and the time she made it. As for the calling cards, I was able to get in touch with the company that was placing the charges on my phone bill and they have not seen any new charges. So this could be a good sign. The only thing that bothers me is that she saved his picture. She did save it before I called OM and this whole thing exploded. So maybe she just forgot about it. This is what still bothers me.<p>I guess for now, I will sit tight and watch what happens. Plus I will address her needs as well. I have been writing this very long letter/email to her and have not sent it yet. A lot of it covers what I was feeling during this whole thing and that I am there for you when and if you need me to be. I did mention about addressing her emotional needs, because I think this was more of an emotional escape for her. I did admit some fault in why she went to Om instead of me. It's pretty lengthy and hits some key points in our marriage. I am debating whether or not to send it. <p>What do you think? I would like to post it here and get an opinion from all. Let me know if any of you think this is appropriate.<p>Thanks for all you help.

Dear SW,
I think that the most important thing is first, to try to find out from her what her emotional needs really are - they may not all be what you think they are - try, if you can, to get her to tell you where she thinks you were not there for her. I know this is hard. It is hard to admit that even with all the love and goodwill we held for our spouses, that somehow, they felt we weren't enough for them. But for some reason, that's the way THEY feel, and for us to be able to care for them well, we still have to pay attention to what they want and think they need. If she will open up to you about what she needs, you are a long way towards rebuilding your relationship.<p>In my case, I am still guessing about my H's emotional needs. He is not into talking about his feelings or needs - personally, I think that's one of the reasons we are here in the first place, but that's only MHO - still, one person on this site gave me some wonderful advice - she said to treat him as a science project and try filling all the various emotional needs one at a time and watch his reaction. He responds well to Admiration (affirming him in a positive way - complimenting him on what he does well, what I like about him, why I think he's attractive, thanking him for when he is giving to me). It only takes an act of will for me to do this for him - so this is my act of love for him. When I am angry with him, I realize that I withhold this kind of attention from him, so I try not to withhold it, even though I still don't trust him and I'm still angry with him.<p>He obviously needs someone to go out and laugh with - just joking around - someone to lift his spirits. This is harder for me to do. My H is Mr Spontanaeity - it only seems to be "fun" for him if its spur of the moment. He often, in our married life (like tonight) will say, "Oh, there's a concert on I'd like to, need to go to, would you like to come?" This leaves me scrambling for a babysitter at the last minute. Often, like tonight, I can't find one, or can't afford one - so he goes alone - for him, tonight, he has to make a professional appearance - so he really does need to go. But it would show real consideration on his part, and desire to be in my company, if he were able to plan further ahead, thereby making it possible for me to be with him. I don't know how to combat this trait in him without ending up in an argument - this is one of the things we need MC for. But when we do manage to go out together, we love being together. I guess I have to be the one to fix up our evenings out - right now its hard to find ways to be in each other's company which are not too stressful. Staring at each other across a restaurant dinner table might just be a bit too much for either of us right now.<p>Umm - so even though my story appears "negative" - I am still working on my marriage. I know that in my heart, I really don't want a marriage where I feel I have to spy on my partner. It was, and might still be, something I resort to. But it is not something I want to live with permanently. I need him to come forward and prove to me that I can trust him, by opening up his life to me, giving me not only the keys to his heart, but the keys to his e-mail accounts and mobile phone as well. Trust between us has been shattered. But he knows that rebuilding my trust is something which HE has to do. I have work to do. This is HIS work, if he wants our marriage to work. So far it hasn't happened yet, but it still could. Maybe we are going through a crisis and are just not through it yet.<p>Time will tell. If you love your wife still, try not to punish her, but do everything you can to heal her and your marriage. I wouldn't confront her unless you see evidence of renewed contact or personal meetings over a period of time - time in which you have spent trying to address the issues in your marriage which led her to this. You be the best person you can be - don't give her any excuse to go to him. If she keeps his picture for awhile - even though that bugs you - makes you feel angry and jealous, perhaps it could be the tool by which you finally know its over - the day she deletes it from her account. If you blow it and do it for her, or demand that she do it, you will rob her of the ability to do this for herself.<p>You have kept your head on amazingly straight so far - and you obviously love your wife. Keep up the good work. <p>Odile

Dear SW,
I think that the most important thing is first, to try to find out from her what her emotional needs really are - they may not all be what you think they are - try, if you can, to get her to tell you where she thinks you were not there for her. I know this is hard. It is hard to admit that even with all the love and goodwill we held for our spouses, that somehow, they felt we weren't enough for them. But for some reason, that's the way THEY feel, and for us to be able to care for them well, we still have to pay attention to what they want and think they need. If she will open up to you about what she needs, you are a long way towards rebuilding your relationship.<p>In my case, I am still guessing about my H's emotional needs. He is not into talking about his feelings or needs - personally, I think that's one of the reasons we are here in the first place, but that's only MHO - still, one person on this site gave me some wonderful advice - she said to treat him as a science project and try filling all the various emotional needs one at a time and watch his reaction. He responds well to Admiration (affirming him in a positive way - complimenting him on what he does well, what I like about him, why I think he's attractive, thanking him for when he is giving to me). It only takes an act of will for me to do this for him - so this is my act of love for him. When I am angry with him, I realize that I withhold this kind of attention from him, so I try not to withhold it, even though I still don't trust him and I'm still angry with him.<p>He obviously needs someone to go out and laugh with - just joking around - someone to lift his spirits. This is harder for me to do. My H is Mr Spontanaeity - it only seems to be "fun" for him if its spur of the moment. He often, in our married life (like tonight) will say, "Oh, there's a concert on I'd like to, need to go to, would you like to come?" This leaves me scrambling for a babysitter at the last minute. Often, like tonight, I can't find one, or can't afford one - so he goes alone - for him, tonight, he has to make a professional appearance - so he really does need to go. But it would show real consideration on his part, and desire to be in my company, if he were able to plan further ahead, thereby making it possible for me to be with him. I don't know how to combat this trait in him without ending up in an argument - this is one of the things we need MC for. But when we do manage to go out together, we love being together. I guess I have to be the one to fix up our evenings out - right now its hard to find ways to be in each other's company which are not too stressful. Staring at each other across a restaurant dinner table might just be a bit too much for either of us right now.<p>Umm - so even though my story appears "negative" - I am still working on my marriage. I know that in my heart, I really don't want a marriage where I feel I have to spy on my partner. It was, and might still be, something I resort to. But it is not something I want to live with permanently. I need him to come forward and prove to me that I can trust him, by opening up his life to me, giving me not only the keys to his heart, but the keys to his e-mail accounts and mobile phone as well. Trust between us has been shattered. But he knows that rebuilding my trust is something which HE has to do. I have work to do. This is HIS work, if he wants our marriage to work. So far it hasn't happened yet, but it still could. Maybe we are going through a crisis and are just not through it yet.<p>Time will tell. If you love your wife still, try not to punish her, but do everything you can to heal her and your marriage. I wouldn't confront her unless you see evidence of renewed contact or personal meetings over a period of time - time in which you have spent trying to address the issues in your marriage which led her to this. You be the best person you can be - don't give her any excuse to go to him. If she keeps his picture for awhile - even though that bugs you - makes you feel angry and jealous, perhaps it could be the tool by which you finally know its over - the day she deletes it from her account. If you blow it and do it for her, or demand that she do it, you will rob her of the ability to do this for herself.<p>You have kept your head on amazingly straight so far - and you obviously love your wife. Keep up the good work. <p>Odile

HI Odile,<p>I think the advice you gave about letting my W remove or delete the picture herself is the best advice I have received in a long time. Thank you for the advice.<p>I have thought about cutting the picture out of the email and just playing dumb, like I have no idea what you are talking about or what happened. My fear in doing that is exactly what you said about that could push her more to him. I will just leave it for now and watch and see what she does with it. So far I do not think she has been emailing him. I am pretty sure the phone calls have stopped as well. She does not spend much time on the computer like she was before. Maybe this will just go away completly. <p>My W has talked with a friend of hers about this whole thing. I hope her friend offered some good advice and that she will soon be able to put an end to this, if it has not already happened. <p>Thanks again and I hope everything works out for yourself as well. We are going on vacation for about 10 days, so I hope this will help us with our marriage.<p>SW

Hello something wrong,
I am going to start off by telling you I am the BS in my M. I had an OEA. We are having a GREAT recovery. Maybe telling you my story will help to give you some insight on what your W may be going there herself. My W followed ‘plan a’ to the “T”. She had “Spector” (www.spectorsoft.com) on my computer for almost a month. This was after our 1st d-day (she found an email to the OW in my outlook sent box). I had no idea it was on my system. Mind you, I am a programmer by trade. She never led on, nor did I expect anything of the sort was on my computer. <p>If she did not install the spy-ware I bet I would still be having the OEA. I believe this because it took having to face the truth without being able lie my way out of it. I had no way I could deny what was really going on my wife had proof. This hit me like a ton of bricks. I was angry, sad, depressed, and in shock that she would ever do such a thing. But after I thought about it for some time I realized who could blame her. I might do the same thing. <p>She explained she had to do it because she had no idea what else to do except find the truth (the truth will set you free). At first that she said she needed to prepare for what might happen (divorce). This was even harder to swallow. I think it was so hard to hear because my EOA was a fantasy life that I was living only to fill my real life EN. Now it became so real, I was terrified to ever even talk about it. I wished she would just forget it as if it never happened. <p>Every time the A would come up I came at her like a cornered rat, ready to fight (lie) for my life. I was having panic attacks, anxiety big time before and after D-Day. I had started to go to IC to help me resolve this conflict in my head. In IC I figured out I was fighting for my fantasy life and she was fighting for real life and our M. This is when the guilt came in. How could I do this to the one person I promised the rest of my days to, the person I swore allegiance to. How could I hurt someone I loved so much? Was this OW (my addiction) worth it? The fog was lifting. <p>I decided then that I would never contact the OW after that last D-Day. I honestly believe that because I made the choice for myself our M has a better chance of healing. What you need to do is NOT delete the picture your BS spouse has, that will not help you get your wife back, you need to make her realize that she needs to delete it. I hope your following me. <p>I guess what I am trying to say is, “you can’t make someone change, but they can change themselves”. You can influence their decision to change. Give them reasons to change. I am not talking about telling them or asking them. I am talking about showing them there is no better choice. The truth is, you are the best choice. If you fight with her, scream and yell at her, make her think you despise her, you will be slowing it down or driving her away (which the OM is not).<p>Make it so your wife has no better choice but to be with you. I read a post of my W’s where she wrote, “would you rather be right or would you rather be married”. This blew me away. My W was a person how could argue with the best of them, and just about always win. Thanks goodness she decided to let our M win this time. I suggest you try the following to start.<p>Get Spector installed
Follow plan A then Plan B if necessary.
Don’t show anger towards your W
Don’t give up hope.
Keep looking here for support.<p>You will always remember the A but you can heal. Healing your M is no easy task, but is anything easy as good as something you work for? Once you both get back on the same team you will find more love for one another then ever before.

I am so touched by these last 3 posts - I'm crying. <p>SW - I'm glad what I said helped - I'll pray for you - it looks like she is choosing you. I have found a book which my married friends say has changed their R forever - if you are a book reader - even if you're not - read this one - Mars and Venus Together Forever - by John Gray - they both say it helped them understand each others vital EN's. I'm just starting it - it's great!<p>LoveHerMadly - how I hope my H is going through exactly what you've been through - except my H was actually meeting the OW regularly - I'm told she will be history in May - back to France. My H has just started IC and we seem to be doing a lot better together - in small ways - subject of A is off-limits, though. No more fighting. I'm crying b/c it's your wife, FHO who has responded to my posts since the beginning, who has helped me so much. I am SOO glad for you - you are making a beautiful couple together now, I'm sure - maybe you would find this book helpful, too - it was my friend's H who recommended it to me - he loved it.<p>All the best to all of you,
Odile