I have (previously) posted under "Resolving Conflict". (A week or two ago.) I am realizing now it was the wrong area to post under. <p>I have been suspecting that "something is not right" for almost a month, now. There is (in my opinion) much evidence of some kind of an affair going on..but nothing my husband could not probably talk himself out of. He truly knows how to manipulate all conversations between he and myself.<p>Before I tell about what has been going on just recently, I want to say that there was an episode where he ended up actually meeting up with an old girlfriend from high school approximately two years ago. We live in Illinois and she has been living in Texas for the last 20 years. I discovered early on in their telephone conversations, that these phone calls were indeed being made. When I insisted to husband that they had to stop, I was assurred that they would. (DUH!) After approximately a year of the phone calls (NOW I KNOW) husband and a newly divorced buddy of his "plan a trip" down to Louisiana..hunting. (???) Anyway, I guess I knew deep down and I began making my own phone calls about midway into the week they were gone and found out that this old girlfriend was gone to Lousiana for a week too! Imagine THAT!!? Well, when husband returned home he did not come home. I would not let him. He went to live with MOM for a little over a month. After that, I let him back..thinking that things will be better, because he kept saying how sorry he was, etc, etc...
When he did come back, he expected things to get "back to normal" to quickly. Meaning..I could not question where he was going, doing, etc..etc. AT ALL. He just kept throwing up in my face "Is this the way it is going to be for the rest of our lives?!" Needless to say, being the peacekeeper as ALWAYS, I did not bother him with any of my feelings of nontrust of him. Since then, husband has been able to do pretty much what he wants, when he wants. He runs around quite a bit with his divorced buddy. Of course I do not like that, but my feelings, up until now has always been, if I don't want to cause trouble/arguments, what can I say? <p>Just recently, two months or so now, Feb 28, 2002...he went shopping for all kinds of new clothes with his buddy. (I just found the receipt) The NEXT day, he came home with a new Nextel. He already had a "heavy-duty" Nextel for construction workers, etc..but my husband says that his buddy gave him this one, because his buddy had to get a new one for his international travels. I find it quite interesting that any/all calls..that used to show up on his older model Nextel..are now always "empty" on husband's new Nextel. I don't believe there was a way to delete those on the old model. Coincidence? I don't think so! <p>Husband also has shown a renewed interest in showering and changing his clothes several times a day. He seems to be always and primping, etc. This is NOT my husband. He is/was an farmer at heart and just did not bother with cleaning up in the middle of the day! Why now? He is maintaining that he is trying to upgrade his image. HA! <p>In pulling up the most recent Nextel bill, via the internet (I don't THINK husband know's I can do this) I find a 13 minute phone call to the same cute little blonde that helps him SO much at a local building supply store. (I did a reverse phone search). In thinking back, I remember him coming home later than normal one evening and telling me that he was waiting for someone to get home for a service call he was making. Darned if it wasn't the same town that this little blonde lives in! <p>Now, all of a sudden on this months Nextel bill, there are all kinds of calls to voice mail and incoming that cannot be identified. (Definitely more than normal!) <p>Well, being the detective that I am, I just cannot sit still about this. I was out of work early one day, when I retrieved a voice mail from home from husband saying that "he was going to get supplies for tomorrow and then he would be home soon." I raced on down there, only to find him walking up the aisle with GUESS WHO? The pretty little blonde. When husband saw me, he said what are you doing here?? I told him that I had retrieved his voice mail from the store that I was at (just down the road) and decided we should go out for supper. I kind of gave myself away..asking this blonde all kinds of questions..like what year did she graduate, etc..etc.. AND she actually turned red! Husband got mad and said that I should not have done that. (oh my!) As we were eating dinner a few minutes later, he made the comment that he had many (women) friends at this store and did I have a problem with that? I told him I DID NOT have a problem with that as long as they were just friends in the store. He began to say something to the effect of what would be the problem outside the store?...but he dropped it. After this, husband brought this topic up several times, wondering what my problem was with this gal. Hmmm? <p>A couple more things have since happened. Husband's buddy was taking all of his four darling daughters out to eat when someone woman two-wayed him from my husband's phone. Oldest daughter perked up and caught onto this right away. When they got to the restaurant and the daughter asked him about this, he said it was me. Of course his daughter, said "no..I know her voice". I'll bet it was the girl from the builder's supply store!" Well, her mom (his ex-wife, MY girlfriend) was there, because this was a birthday dinner for one the kids and she just about kicked the daughter. When husband's buddy said something to the effect of "well, it sounds like you already know." He then began to say something to the effect that "he told 'them' that they were going to send me to a mental health hospital.". Unfortunately he shut up and would not say another word about the whole thing. Since the above episode, it appeared to me that things must have really cooled down, because no constant showers, clothing changes, etc. (Maybe he got scared...maybe SHE got scared?) <p>Until I came home today! When I came home at noon today, husband was shaving. When I came home at the end of the day, husband had clean clothes that he had changed in and out of and he also had showered. Where did he go during those five hours??? Again, this is VERY unusual for him! <p>Being the self-employed contractor that he is, he does not have a set schedule. I have TRIED to have him followed, but it is costing an arm and a leg, because no-one can predict where he will be at any particular time. <p>At this stage, I guess I am just trying to find "rock-solid" evidence that I can throw in front of him...so that he cannot talk his way out of this AGAIN! Someone mentioned that they had taped a cell-phone call. Can anyone give me any insight as to how you go about doing this? I am not sure how much longer I can go on living this lie..pretending that everything is okay, until I can PROVE all of this. I am almost sick every day, unable to concentrate and unable to accomplish much of anything on a day to day basis. <p>For those of you who were able to "follow" my story, any/ALL suggestions on how you think I could GET answers would me much appreciated! Also, how can I cope?? How do YOU cope? This is really terribly devastating! : ( <p>Thanks!
Glow

Dear Glo, <p>Welcome to MB. How familar are you with the MB concepts? Please get ahold of the book surviving an affair. I don't think your gut instincts are wrong. <p>My h is self employed and that means they have a lot of down time. Yep, he went and did the dirty deed many a time. Unfortunately, your story is one that is common here. <p>So for starters, read up on that book and read the basic concepts located under the MB logo at the top of this page. <p>Come back and let us know your comments. There are things like voice activated recorders and other devices. Go over to the General Questions II area and you will find some info. <p>You need to see where you are and where you want to be. Realize this, you can not fully control your H. He is already showing his bad side to you and it may get worse. <p>Through it all, you can have support and help. This is a good place to start. <p>Take Care,
L.

hide a voice activated recorder in his vehicle.

Thanks for the input in regards to the voice-activated recorder, but I have already thought about this (long and hard) and decided against it, as husband's truck is an 'older louder' model. (I don't think it would pick up the voices because of the sound of the diesel engine and it being loud.) I am also afraid, that wherever I might "put it" it would bounce so much that it would fall down into site.
I guess I was thinking (hoping?) that someone may have come up with something that you can put "into" the cell-phone to record the conversation. (Probably only in the movies, right?)
Thanks,
Glo

Maybe you could break into his voice mail? call it from the phone so you wont need a code?
But really what more evidence do you need? You know about the other girl, you guys didnt fix it then - he probably figures its ok as long as you dont know. (I know you dont agree)

Hi Sad Princess,
I am the one that set up his voice mail up, so getting "into it" is not the problem. By the time I would get a chance to look at whatever went on, on his phone on any particular day, EVERYTHING is deleted. (all voice mails and any evidence of incoming or outgoing calls.) I have just recently purchased my own Nextel...and he is not aware of it. I have had thoughts of forwarding his phone to go directly to my voice mail (putting his exact same message into my voice mail.) That way, maybe I will catch some of the many incoming calls coming into his phone. (At least where they are originating from.) I will have to test this as I am not sure of all of the ramifications of this. I am not sure if I like what this whole situation is doing to me, as far as making me so darned dishonest! <p>Yes, I know about the "other" girl...but how do I prove that there is anything more there than the friendship relationship that he alluded to at the beginning of this month? I AGREE, I am sure he thinks it is okay for him to continue any kind of a relationship he wants, as long as I do not know/discover it. He has had pretty much the attitude, throughout our whole marriage, that he wants to do what he wants to do..and he WILL do whatever it is, if he wants it bad enough! <p>I have pretty much resigned myself to the fact that this IS IT. I guess, at this stage, I am just trying to come up with some "HARD FACTS" so that I don't have to put this one ME. If I do not get what he would call the "hard facts", I WILL have to take the blame for ending this marriage. I WANT him to know that I ABSOLUTELY KNOW what is going on, and that this is it, as far as out marriage goes. Why does that statement make my stomach turn inside out?? <p>Orchid, I am not very familiar with the MB concepts. I will be reading them over as the days go by, I am sure. Right now, I am just so overwhelmed, I don't know which way to turn. I plan on getting the book you suggested, "Surviving The Affair". <p>I am sure you all probably know where I am coming from when I say I would just like to curl up into a ball in a corner and wish it all away. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] I am just not understanding how people get through this pain! I feel like I could just cry and cry and cry. <p>Thanks much for all of your support.

Dear Glow,<p>I certainly understand about wanting to curl up in a ball and just die........<p>Here are some tools that have helped me. I know it is a lot of reading so take your time. Realize that you can not change the world in 1 day. Also know that things could get worse before they get better. <p>Spend you time familiarizing yourself with the tools here and pay attention to his actions vs his words. There could be a lot of confusion in him right now. <p>Here a helpful thread:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=015609 <p>Hugz,
L.

<<<I am not sure if I like what this whole situation is doing to me, as far as making me so darned dishonest! >>><p>You have every right to know what's in his voice mail, just as he's got every right to know what's in yours.<p>Married people do not have secrets of any kind from each other. The fact that he thinks it's ok to keep half his life secret from you is a huge red flag.<p>There is not one thing "dishonest" about your listening to his voice mail. Why should he have anything to hide?<p>The only dishonest part of this situation is your husband's lying, secrecy, and deception.

Well, he's been caught!! My informant tells me that he was indeed at the cute little girl's house (for 45 minutes) and from there THEY went to a salvage place to sell all kinds of wire, copper, steel and the like. This has all "gone down" today. <p>My husband is an electrician/contractor and has been accumulating this stuff. Apparently, right from the salvage place, they went to a local bank and cashed the check he received from all of his wire, etc. (Probably never thought about his family and the possibility that WE could use that cash!) <p>From the bank they went on to a bar in the next town over. (probably trying to get further away from HER home!) She IS married, I am wondering where her husband is in all of this?? On a second shift job maybe? I don't know..but maybe I will have to find out! Or maybe they are separated or in the process of divorce? <p>My informant tells me that they did not get "lovey-dovey" but sat very close in the bar. My husband told HER how unhappy he is at home because he is asked to do so much around the house and never gets to relax. (WOW!! That is just the opposite of the way it REALLY is..we learned long ago, not to bother husband/dad with ANYTHING because he gets so mad/frustrated!!) <p>Another thing, he repeated several times is the old saying, "I am as honest as the day is long!" Isn't it unbelievable how much lying goes on during these types of things?? Who was he trying to convince..himself or HER?<p>They then left that bar and traveled to another town close by and went to a sports bar (to eat, I assume.) That is where 'my informant' left them! I am assuming that I have enough evidence here (for myself) to proceed on with a formal separation? I want to add that this IS NOT the first time that something like this has happened. The way I feel today, I can see no hope for pulling this marriage back together. My big question to all of you out there is this: Should I play it cool a couple of more days and catch them actually being "lovey dovey?" It appears that this must still be somewhat early in their relationship..from the way he was talking to her. I happen to know that SHE has work off this Friday and Monday. Maybe I should have them watched on those days and see what happens? Would it be to my advantage (for our separation or divorce) to actually catch them being more romantic? Who knows if husband will even be home tonight? My "informant" had to leave, so maybe they will use the rest of the cash he got from his scrap metal sale to rent a hotel room? I guess I should have had him stay right on them, huh? Now I will be wondering! <p>I sure am NUMB right now. Any/ALL input would be really appreciated! <p>Glo

Glo,<p>Step back and think, you already have confirmation that this was not a casual meeting. One puppy following another from place to place is what the WS and OP does until they just get too tired of following and do it anywhere (cheap hotel, car, house, etc.) Sorry for being crude but that is what happens to many. <p>In my case the OW (in another town, made sure she planted herself and the WS (my H) right down the street from where I work. Then she and the WS got into a big fight at Motel 6 (YUCKY and sooo tacky) and he gave me what I interpreted to be a 'panic suicide threatening call'. Ok, so I called 911 and reported it. Cops were there in 25 minutes. OW took off running back to her home and called me yelling at me for calling the police. <p>Anyway, back to your situation, you have enough evidence. More will come out later. Right now you decide where you want to be vs where you are and write down what you think it will take to get there. <p>For me after 9 months, I learned that getting the OW out of my life was the #1 thing. Even if that meant losing my H. See at that point, he did not feel like my H, he did not act like my H, he was basically a stranger in my H's clothes. He shaved his mustache (he had it for 20 years)so he didn't even look like my H. <p>That thought comforted me and helped me through some rough times. With that as my goal, my plans changed. I no longer tolerated the WS' behavior. It became easier for him to go but he just wouldn't. Hm...... I really tried hard to put him out but he kept coming back and trying to heal himself. Each time he came back, he was tasked to meet our needs for the family and mine. Being home was not going to be easy for him. Living in our home belonged to those who were valuable contributing family members. Loafers, freeloaders and Ws' were not allowed. It was of utmost importance to get the OW out of my life and that of all members living in our home. <p>Well I will tell you that the OW tried very hard to weasel her way back. She even offered to share the WS her 3 days to my 4 days.....isn't that generous? LOL!!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] Dumb bunny! (I call the OW PBR - Psyco Babble Rabbit - each name she earned!). Her last call was with her cussing me out. I listened and hung up. Her repeated attempts were met by my H with anger and him telling her off. She has not called since. It has been recent but we are now past the 2 week mark. <p>The point here is to work on yourself. Your H will stumble and fall and he will not be able to continualy cover his tracks. You may find e-mails, cards, condoms, notes, receipts, recorded phone conversations, etc. You will get more proof later. <p>Don't worry about that now. Strengthen yourself. You will need it. <p>Take Care,
L.

Glow, <p>How are U doing? <p>L.

Glo, <p>Haven't heard from U in a while. How are U doing?<p>L.