Sorry about posting yet another topic, but I am working at night for 2 weeks so I have lots of time to write!<p>Okay, I am confused. Immediately after Disclosure (which wasn't much) we had sex. As I am waiting for REAL DISCLOSURE we have sex nightly and 2 or 3 times a night on weekends. 5 weeks later at a counseling session, I finally get to hear What Happened and With Whom. We have sex that night and the next, then WHAM! It stops dead cold. <p>Yes, it is coming from me. The sexual nature of the affairs is really getting to me. I can't help but to take it personally because of all the wonderful praise I received over the years, and then to find that she just felt like "adding a little excitement" to her life, and that the A's were virtually purely physical, pleasure seeking experiences, is really killing my psyche! <p>I remember one conversation about 2 weeks after D-Day where I told my W that I could not be physical with another woman unless I KNEW that it was over for us and I wasn't turning back. I know I could not handle the guilt and the turmoil of a PA while intending to stay married, and she said, "That's you, that's not me." Oh great, so she can "handle" such a thing and not feel guilty and I can't. (She has already proclaimed to me that she has no guilt over it, just regret.) Doesn't make me feel good or secure about the future.<p>So now I feel dead below the waist and I know she feels it. I resent that she has had 2 men just for fun and I haven't been with anyone new in 9 years! My male ego is going ballistic! It's not fair! It's not right! Men are supposed to "fool around" just for the sake of sex, not women! <p>Anyway, are PA's really so much more impactful to men than to women? From what I've seen in this and other forums is that women are more devastated by the loss of their spouse's love and men appear to be more devastated by the loss of their spouse's fidelity.<p>True? Not true? <p>The part of me that is wrapped-up in this is my pride, for sure. And that pride alone could take me all the way to divorce just on stubborn principle! (It doesn't help that I have an Italian upbringing either!)=O<p>Can anyone share their stories in dealing with this aspect of the A? It seems so odd that I was completely "rocking her world" until just after Full Disclosure, and now I am avoiding intimate contact at all costs. Insights please! Thank you!<p>[ April 29, 2002: Message edited by: Blind Sided ]<p>[ April 29, 2002: Message edited by: Blind Sided ]<p>[ April 29, 2002: Message edited by: Blind Sided ]<p>[ April 29, 2002: Message edited by: Blind Sided ]<p>[ April 29, 2002: Message edited by: Blind Sided ]</p>

I think it's a 'man' thing... men seem to have more trouble w/ sex w/ their WW than women do w/ their WHs.<p>For me, I knew it was an important connection for us. Our sex life actually improved after d-day... and that confused the heck out of me... (and, now I am finding out... him too...) How could he say he wasn't 'in-love' w/ me... only cared for me... but frankly our sex ROCKED?<p>It also bugged the heck out of Princess, that he wouldn't be 'faithful' to her [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] ...so you can bet I wasn't about to give it up...<p>Check out Schnarch's work ( www.passionatemarriage.com ). I think you will find many answers there.<p>Cali

Blind:<p>"Anyway, are PA's really so much more impactful to men than to women? From what I've seen in this and other forums is that women are more devastated by the loss of their spouse's love and men appear to be more devastated by the loss of their spouse's fidelity.<p>True? Not true?"<p>Generally true. Not in my case, though. I'm reacting so much more like a woman might that it's got me scared! ...Not really. But it's taken me at least 5 IC sessions to impress my IC that the EA has been far more hurtful than the PA in my case. Not that the PA didn't hurt me - it's when I realized they'd had sex that I broke down on D-day, though I was pretty torn up realizing that she was in love with OM all that time. Now, it's disturbing to realize that the EA has continued, even though my W thinks she'd ended it last fall, because the friendship is an EA (because being friends with someone you've done the deed with just isn't possible - no, being friends with someone you've been intimate with, emotionally and/or physically, isn't possible!). <p>Anyway, I'm more like you in that I can't even imagine being with another woman while I'm with my W, in spite of what's happened.

"women are more devastated by the loss of their spouse's love and men appear to be more devastated by the loss of their spouse's fidelity"<p>Interesting observation... and I think usually true... <p>On topic: as for your W, if it were me I would not buy that she was out there just for sex... I'd keep searching for the real answer because I'd be surprised if you were getting the whole truth -if that is all she says...<p>Women can get (and since she was about 12 or 13, could always get) all the sex they want... <p>It doesn't take any talent... don't have to be attractive, witty, funny, entertaining, athletic, or even likable... getting laid, for them, is like falling of a horse and hitting the ground (anybody can do it, anytime they want- all you need is a horse)...<p>So getting sex from just anybody generally doesn't make the grade for most women (even if its a 1-night stand). In general, it requires something more.... like landing a guy they want... <p>Which means he has to be particularly desireable in some way, or she has stolen him from a particularly formidable opponent. <p>Or there might be some issues of maturity?? <p>Or she might have a particularly salient emotional need to be admired and pursued...(this is often tied to issues of self worth, depression, or other insecurities/emotional problems) ...<p>I doubt (especially as you describe your sex-life) if the only emotional need was sex... it sounds like you were checking that block quite well... <p>If it is the "admired and pursued" thing it is going to be tough... because a new comer can always admire and pursue the crap out of her... and tell her whatever she wants to hear during the few hours they are together... and she will imagine he feels that way all the time they are apart (yea - right! -except when he's feeding the same line of crap to 3 other women...)<p>Admiring and pursuing on the level that the newest newcomer appears to do is pretty tough to match... especially when you live in the real world with her 24 hours a day... you see her make 2 years of decisions that do not warrant admiration, and then she tops it off by f***ing a total stranger...<p>Good luck my friend... I say don't stop looking for the answer, because you may not have it..<p>Sorry if I come accross as sort of hard on your W- I think those feelings are actually more directed at my W [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I'm beginning to wonder if WW should even stand for wayward wife... In my postings, I feel like perhaps that second W should stand for something else... I myself am not sure I even want her anymore... no kids... I brought all the assets to the M -and could leave with most of them... Anymore I often think that even if I did end up taking the 50% reduction, it would be an extremely cheap way out of the biggest mistake of my life... sorry so negative today...

Blind Sided,<p>I think you may be a bit confused. It seems to me you are confusing the images in your mind with what is really bothering you. When reading your posts the things that seem to really bother you are what she says:<p>1. I won't need to for another 7-8 years.<p>2. I don't feel guilty, just regret.<p>3. Not wanting to talk about why she did this.<p>It is the emotional part of this that is bothering you just as if it was an EA. You problem is that there was no EA with ONS, but I would bet that there has over the years been a lot of other things going on with that man.<p>There was probably some EA with the friend and might still be true. You by the way need to tell him to get tested. You W has potentially exposed him to STD via ONS. You testing negative is not proof that nothing could or has been passed on.<p>BUT, the real problem is that she doesn't seem to be emotionally involved with YOU. You are not getting the reassurances you might expect of someone that wants to be emotionally committed to you.<p>Point to consider: she had no guilt. Now you could argue that she is sexually addicted and doesn't care who she has sex with, but I don't think that flies. The lack of guilt is a lack of emotional connection to you. Yes, the sex with OM hurt, just as it would a woman, but just as a woman, the emotional connection or more precisely the lack of it with you is what is really bothering you.<p>If she were truely connected to you or sensitive to your pain, many of her comments wouldn't be made.<p>You have my $0.02. It is the EA dummy. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] Actually, it is the lack of emotion that is bothering you.<p>Personally, I think if I were you that is what I would be talking about. She obviously has had sex with many men before you and even sex with these guys could be overcome, IF there was something there emotionally.<p>You need to talk about how she doesn't feel guilt. You need to talk to her about what she does feel.<p>YOU NEED TO BE HONEST WITH HER, about how you feel in bed with her, or when she says certain things. She asked for your thoughts, and you should give them to her. Not in an LB way, but so that she knows that she succeeded, she hurt you deeply.<p>Blind Sided, I get the impression she is still trying to hurt you by protecting herself and not opening up. Just as you are her, by not forgiving her yet so she doesn't get too comfortable. <p>Childish, Blind Sided, Very CHildish. You can always change your mind and divorce, BUT you cannot always try to save your marriage. This latter option has a time stamp on it. Don't let it expire.<p>Talk with your W about your deepest fears, about how you don't feel special in bed with her, about how you want more time spent with you and not friends, relatives, children, job, whatever.<p>Talk, talk, talk, let her see your insides and what makes you tick. You can handle what she does with this information, because you always have options.<p>Think about it Blind Sided.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

UnSureOfMe<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>On topic: as for your W, if it were me I would not buy that she was out there just for sex... I'd keep searching for the real answer because I'd be surprised if you were getting the whole truth -if that is all she says...<hr></blockquote><p>I agree. I am still looking. There has to be some real emotional issues at hand behind all this.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Or she might have a particularly salient emotional need to be admired and pursued...(this is often tied to issues of self worth, depression, or other insecurities/emotional problems) ...<hr></blockquote> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>If it is the "admired and pursued" thing it is going to be tough... because a new comer can always admire and pursue the crap out of her... and tell her whatever she wants to hear during the few hours they are together... and she will imagine he feels that way all the time they are apart<hr></blockquote><p>Yes. I believe I "inherited" these lifelong issues that she has had before I came along. As foolish as it was, we both believed that our one true love would take away all of our problems and we would miraculously be cured of all of our emotional/mental garbage! This Admired and Persued issue could prove to be a tough one.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Sorry if I come accross as sort of hard on your W- I think those feelings are actually more directed at my W<hr></blockquote><p>Don't worry. I understand that all too well. Of you want to see real angry men you should see the postings in Betrayed Husbands at Facereality.com! Man, I don't know if any guy would even try to stay with his W with that input!<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>... I myself am not sure I even want her anymore... no kids... I brought all the assets to the M -and could leave with most of them... Anymore I often think that even if I did end up taking the 50% reduction, it would be an extremely cheap way out of the biggest mistake of my life...<hr></blockquote><p>I haven't read all of your postings so I don't know your whole story, but if you have no kids and can walk away and cut your losses, perhaps you should seriously consult an Atty and see what is really involved. Even though I am staying and trying to fix my M, I am still going to consult an Atty or two to see what would happen with me at this point in time and down the line a year or two. I may decide to "cut my losses" now instead of gambling on the future. The info can't hurt. And knowing what will happen may make you feel better about facing what appears to be inevitable in your case (I'm only going on the strength of your statements here). Perhaps you should start a Topic in the Divorce/Divorcing forum, if you haven't already. Good luck to you and thanks for your excellent feedback. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p> [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ April 30, 2002: Message edited by: Blind Sided ]</p>

Just Learning<p>Well knock me over with a feather!<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>BUT, the real problem is that she doesn't seem to be emotionally involved with YOU. You are not getting the reassurances you might expect of someone that wants to be emotionally committed to you. Point to consider: she had no guilt. Now you could argue that she is sexually addicted and doesn't care who she has sex with, but I don't think that flies. The lack of guilt is a lack of emotional connection to you. Yes, the sex with OM hurt, just as it would a woman, but just as a woman, the emotional connection or more precisely the lack of it with you is what is really bothering you.<hr></blockquote><p>Yes, I believe that what she is really afraid to tell me is that last year she lost her love for me (though she always says I Love You), or that she lost all respect for me. I think she wants to spare me. (Ha! I'm already dying! Don't spare me!) My W's own daughter (age 25) has even said to me that many of the things that my W says sound so callus and cold-hearted she can't believe it. so, you may well be right that it is her Lack Of Emotional Involvement with me that may be my problem. Now mind you, she has cried quite profusely at times in regret over the PA's, but, is she crying because she feels bad that she realized that ultimately she did love me and couldn't leave me and had to clear the air between us? Or is she crying in personal regret over mistakes she made that hurt her personally? Or both? Like I said, she told me that she wasn't burdened with guilt and had to confess to this to me, she maintains she could have kept it a secret for the rest of her life, but, in her words, she had to set things right with God and she had to make sure that this "hidden" evil would not undermine us as we went forward into our future. She wanted us to be off the endless treadmill that we were on. She wanted our relationship to change for the better. I don't know. Seems like very matter-of-fact statements to me.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>You need to talk about how she doesn't feel guilt. You need to talk to her about what she does feel.<p>YOU NEED TO BE HONEST WITH HER, about how you feel in bed with her, or when she says certain things. She asked for your thoughts, and you should give them to her. Not in an LB way, but so that she knows that she succeeded, she hurt you deeply.<p>Blind Sided, I get the impression she is still trying to hurt you by protecting herself and not opening up. Just as you are her, by not forgiving her yet so she doesn't get too comfortable. <p>Childish, Blind Sided, Very CHildish. You can always change your mind and divorce, BUT you cannot always try to save your marriage. This latter option has a time stamp on it. Don't let it expire.<p>Talk with your W about your deepest fears, about how you don't feel special in bed with her, about how you want more time spent with you and not friends, relatives, children, job, whatever.<p>Talk, talk, talk, let her see your insides and what makes you tick. You can handle what she does with this information, because you always have options.<hr></blockquote><p>Powerfully stated. I don't know if I can add anything to what you have said here. I have read and reread your post to me and I am digesting and processing all of what you are saying here. I thank you for this wondrous input.<p>
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Blindsided:<p>Something Just Learning said:
"...Just as you are her, by not forgiving her yet so she doesn't get too comfortable. <p>Childish, Blind Sided, Very CHildish. You can always change your mind and divorce, BUT you cannot always try to save your marriage. This latter option has a time stamp on it. Don't let it expire."<p>-your sentence about starting a topic on the divorce page, and the passage above, are combining in my head and hitting sort of hard. <p>I hold on to my anger... why? for flexibility? so she doesn't get to comfortable? Keep it up and I am going to be the real cause of my own divorce?<p>Now I feel childish... -and the roller coaster takes yet another turn. <p>So far, my family doc (whom I trust) resists pre-scribing drugs... says I'm not really depressive and that this is "situational"... <p>But my feelings and emotions are absolutely out of control and off the charts and they come and go without ryhme or reason. Its to the point that I think I am losing my mind. I'm going for another opinion.

UnSureOfMe<p>I don't know when D-Day was for you, I can only assume it was recently because of your registration date to the forum. If it is that recent, you are in a storm and a half of emotions right now and it may behoove you to decide NOT to decide anything major at this point in time. And I mean ANYTHING major. Hell, I almost bought a $5000 water treatment system for the house and I backed out of it fast! Your thoughts are not coherent and you are confused as your feelings and mental musings swirl around out of control. D-Day was 3/10/02 for me and I still have the "Stay" or "Go Away" tetering within me everyday! Only the last day or two have been almost normal in some ways, but I am still sick to my stomach and my mind is still full of thoughts about the PA's. Only you know for sure if your spouse is worth the time and effort to you to save the marriage. That is something that you may come to realize through counseling. I like what Just Learning said:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>You can always change your mind and divorce, BUT you cannot always try to save your marriage. This latter option has a time stamp on it. Don't let it expire.<hr></blockquote><p>It has made my really think about how I am acting and handling everything. Made me mellow-out a tad more. I don't know about you, but I am getting some real quality input in this forum and it is making a positive difference within me. Did your W's A happen soon into the M? Mine was 7 yrs in, and I don't know if there is significance as to when an A occurs, but I think that if it happens really early into a M, it's not a good sign. I hope that the help you seek (medically and therapeutically) is what you need to find some balance so you can move forward with a clearer head and weigh all the plusses and minuses as objectively as possible. Good luck and keep writing!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Blind Sided:
<strong>Anyway, are PA's really so much more impactful to men than to women? From what I've seen in this and other forums is that women are more devastated by the loss of their spouse's love and men appear to be more devastated by the loss of their spouse's fidelity.<p>True? Not true? </strong><hr></blockquote><p>As a woman, I cannot agree with the above...the PA aspect has hit me much, much harder. It's been almost two months since he told me (three months since the A) and I still have horrid images. Although this may be the worst I have to deal with...even though he initially turned to OW due to working together...she understood work problems etc...it seems he really did not care for her as more than a casual friend. No love involved. So, maybe the PA aspect is bothering me more because I know the EA was little more than a sounding board, and is now kaput...? I don't know...but when people say that a PA affects a man more, and an EA affects a woman more, I disagree. Everyone has their own feelings/thoughts/experiences, male or female.