MBers,<p>I had to purchase school supplies and go out of town for a few hours tonight. A few minutes ago I checked my PC monitor to see how things went while I was gone. My H says we are appling the MB principles to rebuild our marriage, let me say that first.<p>There is a woman he has been seeking a relationship with and finally she has moved closer and showed interest, thanks to his lies. He tells her we are separated or divorced. This is an internet EA. The software recorded their cooing and affectionate emotes back and forth. I was somewhat prepared but it is agony just the same. How can I genuinely work on our marriage with things like this? How am I supposed to be loving and affectionate to him when this what is happening? Plan A does not call for me to be a doormat does it, just let him continue to cheat and lie? Like a small child, if he is not called up on it, I think he will continue. Especially since he has no clue he's being monitored. This behavior carries over into the real world as well, about a yr. ago it was a client, no PA he says. With his lying I don't believe him.
I do not know what to do. He will go to bed early so after I'm asleep so he can get online in the middle of the night. Anyone have this experience? If so, how did you handle it? We have just the last few nights been getting close to each other and beginning to have physical contact. This is so grievous, I thought things were getting better.
We began the EN and LB questionaires last night. He cannot be genuine, he is just pacifying me. I realize this is an addiction. Is confronting him the only option? I am certain he will be furious. I don't think he would hurt me. (At least not with my big boys here.) Any thoughts? <img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" /> [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

<small>[ January 31, 2005, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

sobroken,
Let me start by saying I am sorry you are in this situation. I am the WS of an EOA. My wife and I are in recovery and it's going GREAT. I just wanted to let you know that there is hope. We love each other so very much. You and your husband are in the same place my W and I where in a short time ago. You need to keep at Plan a. It will work if you follow it to the letter. I just phoned my W and asked her to post to you (formerhoplessone). She will do a better job of sharing what to expect and how to deal with it. Remember you husband needs you now more then ever, he just doesn't know it. Once his fog is lifted he WILL know....

Sobroken,<p>I also have been there. It is not easy. I do believe it is an addiction. They escape into a fantasy world where the OW can be wonderful and never criticize or be in a bad mood, etc. Also, the H can be whatever they want -- they don't have to show their faults.<p>I know that my H promised NC 3 times. I believe he has not been in contact since D-day #3. After my H moved back home, a very fortunate thing happened -- his computer crashed and lost connection to the internet. After my H and I talked, he agreed not to go on the internet and not fix the computer until I was comfortable. He did not fix it for about 6 weeks -- I think that helped him get over any addiction to it. Also, we started MC and have been really working to meet each other's ENs.<p>I also used a recording device to see what he was doing on the computer -- I finally let him know that is how I knew what he was doing. He was suprised and shocked. I also think he was angry at first. His IC really helped him to see my POV of things. It has taken my H awhile to "get it" to really realize how much he devestated me by his actions and to show true remorse. The first month I think he was still in semi-fog. Now he really does get it and understands what I have gone through. <p>Perhaps you can give me more details about your situation so I can give you some suggestions -- how long married? is this the first time? have you and H talked about this? are you in MC? etc. etc.<p>Hang in there. It is a rocky road to recovery, but it is worth it. My H is even more wonderful now than he was before the A -- he is out of the fog and is smarter than ever.<p>FHO

Hanora, Love and Former,<p>Thank you all for your replies. This has easily been the most painful time in my life.
Love, I'm so glad you posted to me, I'm in tears as I write. What I wouldn't give to have my H and your hearts in sync. Especially your personal info, I'm sorry. It gives me a little hope, but I must admit, after all these years, not much. But I do rejoice for you and your W.
Former, perfect name. That is how I am feeling right now. This can only happen so many times and you feel so defeated. I have posted an email address for you to contact me at if you would. Then I'll send you more info on us. Thanks so much. I have yet to learn of anyone saving their marriage when it has gotten to this point. I look forward to hearing from you. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

<small>[ January 31, 2005, 09:58 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

MBs,
I can't do it. Unless God works a miracle for me, I cannot make wonderful meals and wonderful love (Plan A right?) to someone who is saying he's divorced and lying about me. That I won't take the kids for him on Father's Day!!! I guess he's told them he has custody!! Wooing other women, one in particular, while pretending to be working on our marriage with the MB principles. We're dead in the water. I have been through this so many times now. (I'd like to belt him a few times and see if that helps.) Is it just my pride? <p>Former, you can read a little more background in Just Found Out post called EA/PA, was there a PA, I Have To Know. It has been at least 3 yrs. since my H started a MLC. I first learned of the EAs when we got our computer, but prior to that we had a webtv unit where he was very protective of his password. I never suspected a thing of course. There was much more going on than I realized, so this goes back a number of years. This situation is continual. I tried to get him to understand what an EA is, how devastated I am. He got very angry and yelled, "I am doing nothing wrong!!" He has now reverted to only being online when I'm not home or awake. I think what I might be seeing is H is having some lucid moments, then goes back into the fog? Does that sound right?

Love, my H is the typical emotionally absent father. The duration of this marriage I and I alone have borne the responsibility for every aspect of the needs of the children, paid the bills, faced the collectors when they showed up-anything and everything. He has been a faithful worker and worked hard long hours. Again and again I counseled, worked on me and ways to hand him the torch. Tried to get him to read, listen to tapes, anything. Never happened. I feel like I have given, given and given, and now this. Right now I'm just feeling too overwhelmed by everything. I'm just going to go to room and stay there for a while. I better cry this out before he gets home, I am so mad I can't see straight. Maybe I'll pack his suitcases while I'm up there.

MBs,<p>Ok, I had a verybad day. I did not pack his suitcases, although I was not a pleasant person to come home to. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]
We are at an impasse. He simply cannot discuss anything. The subjects of this site, EAs, feelings, how our relationship is affecting the kids, anything pertaining to working on ussets him off. He either gets really mad or runs. Escape has always been his choice, this is why the internet involvement. I am just at a loss for what to do. Please remember this has been going on for years now. Only in the last year(with evidence of a suspected PA)have I pushed the issue of discussion to restore our M.
He went to one counseling session alone, was told no internet chatting with other women and that was that. He never went back. I had made the appointment. I realize I need to go for counseling, will have to find someone at no cost and who really understands these issues.<p>To show how I feel and that I still love him, a few weeks ago I surprised him with a lavish dinner out and overnight at a very nice inn. He was unable to respond to me sexually as he used to. I realize MLC can sometimes cause this, but I believe it is something else.

I feel my only recourse is to contact an attorney for a separation. But I am afraid because this will rock the boat financially. We are very strapped. Which brings another point, he never allows me to see his paystubs anymore. Hasn't for months. Just directly deposits a given same amt each wk. I think he has another bank account, but do not know how to verify that. We narrowly averted foreclosure last month. If I do ask him to leave I'm afraid that will happen during the turmoil. Plus w/o finances I don't know where he would live. But then there's that possible bank acct......<p>The children here have got have a break from this. The stress is affecting my health, I have a siezure disorder and get migraines. I get so sick I end up in bed 3-4 days of the week. My kids think they have an invalid for a mother lately.<p>Any ideas? This is a radical step for me that terrifies me. I do not want to set this precedent if not absolutely necessary. Thank you.

Dear Sobroken,
I wish you the best oucome for you and your children whatewer action you'll take -confrontation or else.<p>I just want to share something I thought hard of for the past few months while being the very similar situation ( and still am).
About letting go of your control of the world, concentrate on controlling yourself. It is still very hard thing for me to do.<p>See long time ago by snooping around (after being unable to find out what causes H to be unhappy and distant) I found out proof of at least EA ( which for me BTW was worse than PA, just had a first child, very very in love in H, always quesioning my own PA).
Tried to cope for a few months, keeping a happy face ( not sure if you would call it a Plan A, it was 13 yrs before I found out MB). I felt horrible because I can not lie, was ashamed of my behaviour (I was raised to rely on honesty, not reading other people mail).<p> I got seriosly depressed and confessed in secrecy my pain and uncertainty what to do to my MIL - I chose her over my mom for her wisdom and strenght. Well she must have acted somehow- I do not how since I never spoke to her about it again, but my husband next day sat with me, I cried I apologized for snooping, told him that I loved him, promised to do all I can to have our M to work out,He hugged me, I was relieved, we never talked about his A ( if there relly was one).
He totally stopped expressing his feelings - we really did not "talk". I know that was because I destroyed his trust in me in sharing secrets<p>So for 13 years we raise the kids, I go back to work, try to get my EN filled as available and his too. He is always very responsible, good person, warm and caring and yes, expressing verbally love to his children, very hard and successful worker, makes me feel secure ( I hate changes) in whatever happens, financially our M was going uphill all the time.I feel like I am failing most fronts, deny my bad feelings, enjoy the moments we connect, forget the painful moments, have a mantra of not sharing any of this with anybody but me and in any scenario refusing to snoop again, rather build a wall around me to diminish suffering if anything happens again. I also learned that I can cope, I refused to have my EN fulfilled by OM (stopped short of PA, did not love OM at all, just enjoyed talking to him - it was 8 years ago, I relized how much I love my H and that I want to be married to him always.<p>Well read my posts if you want to know what's happening now. <p>I am very much in pain right now but I am trying to do things that at least I will not be ashamed of in the future, since I do not now what action is right or wrong ( for the outcome I pray for).
It is much harder that it seems. <p>People here care about you and me and hopefully we learn something positive here.<p>And now matter how our decisions are influenced by having kids, I do believe the kids are the ones to be protected the most.

sobroken;
I understand where you are coming from. My current problem is so mind boggleing that I can't very know where I stand.
The GF is separted from her husband is about to get the divorce,meanwhile her mother and sister are tryig to get her and her X back together into a situtation much like your know.Though he didn't have the addiction to internet porn his was booze and drugs,getting into trouble,lying(big time about everything)and treated her like second class citizen.Much like you she had enough and when he left her , he was told never to come back. Now the mind boggleing part is when her sister and her got a new place to hide from the sister's stalking X. Well the sister moved the GF X in cause being the joint signer on the lease she can.
So here I'm stuck here in the middle with her living under the same roof with someone she hates totally and I'm being frustrated and going through anexity like you wouldn't beleive. If you look under my threat call
What do you think? You'll see the plan I have hatched to rectify this situtaion. Like you I'm tried of all this and I'm ready to push forward with my life and hopfully not burn that bridge between us.
I know what it is like to love someone and put the efford in to accomplish a goal only to be stonewalled. In my case its her mother.Funny part I like the lady cause she is a very nice person but a little screwy in the head<p>231

sobroken,<p>I'm very sorry to hear your situation. I don't know too much more than what I'm reading in this thread, but I have written this same thread more than once.<p>My WH has told more than one internet friend that I left him (never did), cheated on him (never did) or that we were separated or divorced (never happened until this month).<p>I too thought our marriage was flourishing and in recovery from the previous EA. Each time I started to let my guard down and give myself to him more (feeling secure) I would discover a new woman he was talking to on the phone or via email.<p>I have put up with this for just about 3 years (we've only been married 2 of the 3 though) so we are separated now. WH moved to his own apartment May 7th (my birthday).<p>I couldn't hide my anger and I was LBing him constantly. I can't trust him to protect me from harm. I don't believe a word he says.<p>He expects us to reconcile in 6 months when his lease is up and rigt now I don't think I will ever trust him enough to reconcile.<p>He did set up an appointment with our pastor next week and he has sworn off drinking. He still works with the coworker he had a PA with last October and he still calls/emails with a woman who lives across the country.<p>I want to recover and heal myself right now before I can start thinking about him again. We do have a good friendship and we see each other a few times each week (briefly).<p>I feel so relaxed now and I don't stress much about our marriage. Before we separated I was consummed with my WH and our marriage 24/7! All other parts of my life ended or suffered greatly.<p>We are not financially stable or rich so this wasn't the best option financially, but it was well worth the extra budgeting required to make it happen.<p>I wish you all the best! I hope my situation has helped you a bit. I wish you peace and joy!<p>God bless!

SB,<p>How are you doing?

Hello Free,<p>It sounds wonderful, to be away from it and him. The constant stress. It is late and I just woke from falling asleep w/my 7 yr. old so I just have minute.
It was nice to check and see you asking about me. All I am doing right now is existing as best I can. I started my day by vomiting then sleeping in another hour because I was so tired. It's my reaction to excessive stress. I just hope to get through each day. I have just distanced myself and make meals available, don't converse with him, just take care of the kids and keep busy with house and my part time work teaching at the kids' school. I have discovered there's not really not much difference in conversation now by purposely not having any in comparison to before.<p>Need to sleep, but will be on tomorrow after school. I am calmer now by detaching myself from him. Not healthy, but coping better. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

Free,<p>Here it is 7:25 where I am and I am not fighting a siezure or sick to my stomach this morning! Thank God, my kids and I have testing at school today. At least today I can be relied upon by those who need me. I guess this is going to have to be a minute by minute survival until something gives.<p>I need to finish getting ready but will check back later. I am just so grateful to be well this morning! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] I need to remember God in all this and thank Him for getting me through. Later.

Hello sobroken,
I am sorry I did not have a chance to check up on you in the last few days. From your posts I see you have been riding the rollercoaster my wife and I know all to well. Let me start by telling you that it's not an easy ride. Like I had mentioned my wife and I are in recovery but please don't think that our marriage is fully healed, it's far from it. <p>It's a long hard road and the rage of our emotions has widened 10 fold. We have great days and we have very hard days. Let me see if I can explain it better. Before my EA our emotional scale went from 1-100 now it seems that it dips way below 1 and goes way above 500 at times. The good times are awesome and the bad times are extremely difficult. But we are making it threw them a little better each time. From what I have read, this is all expected. <p>You need to take care of you (I don’t mean give up on your husband). You need to keep working on your marriage and with god’s help your husband will realize what he has and will come back to you emotionally. I feel that is what “plan a” and “plan b” are meant to do. Help you get threw this hard time in your life (a huge understatement) and attempt to save your marriage in the process.<p>Always remember it’s your marriage that has the problems. As bad as it may seem it’s just one part of your life, don’t let the rest of your life fall apart. Your children need you and you must go on as hard as it seems. During the time I was having me EA my wife (even knowing I was having it) started law school, kept going to her very demanding job and still worked on “plan a”. Thank god she never gave up!<p>You will continue to have bad days but you have many more good days to look forward to. Something that works for me is the thought of both the future and the past. I keep thinking of the bad things that have happened to me in the past. How I have made it through them and how everyone’s lives are full of these tiny tragedies. At the time they are happening they seem like the end of the word, but they never are. I look to the future and can’t wait for the good times. I am learning to deal with everything life can throw at me one day at a time. <p>I believe we never stop growing or changing. How you deal with this is going to have a huge effect on how you grow. Keep doing all the right things and no matter what the outcome is, you will survive. Who knows, your marriage may become better then ever as result of the way you handle all this. I know this is a huge cross for you to bear but well worth it. My wife tells me all the time she is so happy she didn’t give up on me. She tells me she is happy with how all this is turning out. We know more about each other and have become closer then ever before. Hang in there. I hope I gave you a little hope for the day. I will try my hardest to keep checking up on you.

MBers,<p>You guys are so awesome. Just got home and have a mini-crisis w/oldest son and other business to take care of but will be back as soon as I can.<p>Thank you for your thoughts, see you soon. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Love_Her_Madly,<p>My 18 yr. old son admired your signature tonight. He said it took a lot of cajones-pardon me-to admit your mistakes in front of everyone. Refreshing, heartening.<p>Yes, you have given me a little hope for today. But I must tell you, this is getting much too hard on the kids. Because of the lack of communication there is constant anger. Unspoken issues between H and myself. Most of the time we walk past one another w/o speaking. I think we need to get away from one another for a new perspective. Not a divorce, a separation. Immediately. When I have my almost 20 yr. old sit here with tears because of the stress from work combined with our home situation, I have to do something to make a positive change. There simply is no communicating. Never has been and now it is going to cost us everything if H doesn't try to learn how. He continues in his way of life and I put one foot in front of another I pray, each day, taking care of the kids. They see his behavior-getting online when I leave. Or if I leave he'll just go to bed five minutes after I walk out the door, like he did tonight. Leaving 13, 12, and 7 year olds on their own, baking a cake. Complete abandonment. Not meeting any needs, or safety precautions even for the kids.<p>I am nodding off here so better go and will be on in the morning. Need to pray about an interim solution. Visit with you soon. Sorry, am soooooooooo tired.

sobroken,
I am sorry to hear things are so rough on you. I don’t know the full story but it sounds like your children resent their father for all this. Rightfully so but it’s not going to help anything. Remember I am speaking from the other side of the fence. My wife and I have no children but I imagine that if his children are turned against him it only gives him another reason NOT to work things out. Think about it, if everyone hated you why would you drop your defense and try to come to any understanding? I could be wrong I am only telling you how it would make me feel. <p>I remember trying to get my wife to hate me, being defensive, rude, and even hurtful. I was in a state of mind where I thought, if she hated me it would justify everything I have been doing (the EA). Maybe even give me a concrete reason to leave. So maybe your children need to learn “plan a” or at least treat him a tiny bit nicer to him. But then again I don’t know the full story. <p>All I can tell you is how I saw things. People talk about the “fog” and wow was in it. I look back at how I was acting feeling and it just blows my mind. How could I turn on the woman I loved so. I know it had a lot to do with EN and communication. I guess what your first obstacle is getting him to talk to you. This can be tricky when emotions are so high. <p>Always stay calm, talk to him with respect, love and concern in your voice. It sucks I know, you want to lash out, but you shouldn’t. NO LB’s! If you want your marriage to work this is the only way. You have to win him back, turn him back to your side. Right now it’s you against him but that will never work. I bet you read where people say “do you want to be married or do you want to be right?” a thousand times on this message board. Well it sucks but it’s the way it is. From your posts you seem to have religious beliefs. Well ask yourself, what would Jesus do? I am not a religious man but I do know that he would do nothing but show love towards everyone even his enemies. Isn’t that how he won the LOVE of his followers?<p>This is how my W won me back. We where so messed up but it works, we are living proof of it. Has your husband been to IC. It helped me to work out some of my issues. It’s getting late so I will check back in on you tomorrow. Just remember he has to work this out for himself. You can’t make him change his mind but you have a huge influence on him. What you need to do right now, give him reason to want to work your marriage out. Oh and don’t forget about protecting yourself. Do some nice things for you. It might help you feel better.

Morning Love_Her_Madly,<p>Thank you for hanging in with us. The mix of interpersonal relationships and needs of different ones in this home is incredible. I always feel I am falling short of talking through issues with all of these guys, my kids.<p>Yes, the resentment level is intense. I am constantly discussing not burning bridges with my guys. And reminding them he is their father, he is wrong, but still their father. Let me try to explain a couple things as quickly as possible. My H came from a pastor's home where children were to be seen and not heard. And the pastor was perfect, flawless. Ha! So none of the kids opinions or feelings mattered, they were to obey the Scriptures and do what they were told. Bottom line. That is sin. So he and siblings always buried their feelings, they didn't exist. Now as an adult my husband truly is an emotional cripple, cannot form friendships, cannot deal with any confrontation. (you can imagine his father and I always butted heads. I speak my mind.) And before his conversion to Christianity, his father was a drinker, as was mine. <p>So I began reading books and listening to tapes about all those issues that go with addictive behaviors, of course trying and hoping H would learn with me. At the same time over the years having our kids, homeschooling, dealing with all issues he couldn't emotionally, dealing with the finances, basically leading the family. I'm not of the mind like some are that the H is the head of the home and the wife merely follows orders, that too is a false teaching. But it would be nice to work as a team!!
So, it has been 20 years I have been understanding his issues, and understanding his issues, and understanding them some more.......now the EAs and maybe a PA. I guess I am feeling maybe he won't ever come around. This has been a long haul. I also believe that in my business with the family that I have been an enabler. Taken way too much on, but it wouldn't have gotten done-what choice did I have?
I understand in his inability to communicate that there has been plenty he wishes to tell me and hasn't. What a prison to live in!! So instead of talking to me he has all these I'm sure resentments (but still have to guess-always had to probe-never got a straight answer anyway) about many things and finds it easier to turn outside our marriage, escape being a familiar concept to him. The fantasy easing his pain.
But I live in reality. I face the children daily, try to best meet their needs, etc. Guess I'm feeling like I'm spent. The energy I do have has to be directed towards the kids. Not giving up on him, no, but he is the adult here, he needs to open his eyes. But remember that perfect father? Never made any mistakes. Makes it almost impossible to admit mistakes when you are raised by someone like that.
Am running late for a field trip-will check in later. Sorry to run off.

SoBroken,<p>Hi, checking in with you. Hope things are going okay. <p>My H has some great advice. Listen to what he has to say -- this will give you some perspective from the WSs POV. A lot of posters here talk about the WS's fog or the WS being abducted by aliens. This is true -- try to think of your H this way. It helps a little. <p>I encourage you to read everything on this site. Really read about Plan A. This is for yourself -- to make yourself a better person. <p>I know when you read the information here on infidelity and Plan A it sounds crazy. The BS is the injured party. Now the BS has to try to meet the WS's ENs. That is not right. The WS should be groveling at the feet of the BS for what he/she has done. Well, as my H has quoted, do you want to be right or do you want to be married. It isn't fair that the WS has done these terrible things and then does not want to participate in working on the M. It is not fair that the BS has to be the one to initiate everything. But, as my mother always used to say, I never promised that life would be fair.<p>You H is looking outside your M to have some of his ENs met. What are they? Since you have been married for a long while, you should be able to take a guess. Figure out what he is getting from the Rs, the try to do this. Complete the ENs questionaire as if you were your H. Then work on fulfilling his top 3 ENs. This will deposit LB$ for him and eventually will make him want to work on the M. My guess is that one of the main things he gets from these Rs is admiration -- that is what my H got. It is great to be able to live in a fantasy world and have someone tell you how wonderful you are. What can you do to meet this EN for him?<p>I know you talk about all the things that you do because no one else will do them. Think about reprioritizing you life. Is your M important? How important? It should be near the top of the priority list. Perhaps your older children can pitch in to get some things done around the house, so you will not be so burdened. How else can you off load some things. Who can help? What can wait? What does not really need to be done?<p>Finally, one last thought, because this post getting long. Regarding you children -- you are setting the example for them of what a M is like. What type of example do you want to set? One in which there are LBers? Where parents do not communicate? Where, when things get really rough, it is time to through in the towel? These are decisions you must make. Only you can decide what is best for you and what is going to work for you.<p>Keep posting. Keep venting here. Don't LB at home -- also do the LBer questionaire as if you were your H. Whatever he would consider a LBer, avoid at all costs. This is even more important than meeting his ENs. Come here an vent when you are frustrated. Also, remember that doing these things is about making yourself a better person. I feel better and stronger for the changes I have made. <p>Hang in there. Also, if you want to e-mail me as you requested, here is my e-mail address -- FormerHopelessOne@hotmail.com.<p>FHO