Hi,<p>It still hurts to see even though you know it is happening. I'm there too. Hubby is a classified government guy and I am a computer engineer so he uses his classified laptop to do his internet filth (its not just chat - it's sex clubs and other abnormal nasties). <p>He can't see that it's an addicition. We will be beginning counseling soon and maybe hearing that it is an addiction from someone else will help him to see. He just views it as "I'm a guy, guys like sex and porn". He thinks he's normal.<p>Good luck to you and don't give up. <p>God bless.
Spy Wife

sobroken,
Just checking in to see how things are going? Let me me know if I can help...

Hi Love_Her_Madly,<p>Things have been so busy last two days haven't had time to have problems. Will try to get back in a bit after dinner and such to discuss a couple things.<p>H and I have not completely filled out EN and LB questionaires. Hope to do that in next couple days.
Told H last night I was going to make a concerted effort to be nicer to him-I have been so bitter and angry. Not just because of his behavior, but because of his lack of discussion at all of the necessary issues. Trying to resolve anything, even if I talk in a non-threatening tone, can get the bathroom door shut in my face. He is so intimidated. We have to resolve these things. I have no clue how. <p>Will try to be back later. Thanks for being there.<p>sobroken

SoBroken,<p>Hi. Your H might not be ready to resolve issues yet. Take it slowly. Have patience. Continue your Plan A. Work on you and the things you want to change about you. If one of your goals is to be nicer to him, then do it. Set the goal and measure each day to see if you achieved it. If you slip, just make a resolution to do better next time.<p>You H needs time before he will truly "get it". By that I mean truly understand the pain you have suffered and the damage this has done to your M. I remember my H just "wanted me to get over it and move on". I think that attitude is typical for WHs. They want to put this behind them and move forward. Also remember that when you H does finally "get it", he will feel tremendous guilt. He probably is not ready to face that yet. <p>Have patience and persistance. Those two qualities are your best friends right now. It is not easy, but it does happen. I remember another person who posted to me and my H and she was very concerned because her H wanted to sweep everything under the rug and did not "get it". She kept up her Plan A, continued to vent and post in here and then one day her H finally "got it". I continued to talk to my H and to share information with him -- from this site, from www.dearpeggy.com and the article Shattered Vows (you can find it at www.findarticles.com). I think these things helped my H to really understand that I wasn't just acting irrational or wanting to punish him. What we were going through was normal and that we really did need to deal with this to heal.<p>Good luck, keep posting.<p>FHO

Former,<p>Woke with a horrid migraine this morning-may not be around for a couple of days. They are usually 48 hours. Yuk. <img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" /> Talk soon I hope.<p>Sobroken

Former and Love,<p>I thought on a previous thread it was written that Plan A is not intended to win the WS back? That it was intended to make you a better person, enabling you to meet your spouses needs, but not expect them to return as a result of the Plan.<p>Yes, I am a religious person. Believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and his teachings. My walk with Him has not been what it should be, part of our problems as well. If I could walk in forgiveness and have my emotions follow suit, I'd be doing great. Used to be I could. I guess it's all these years of no communication, the continuance of his behavior, how repulsive it is to me, how excruciating. it's been so long, and now this hurdle. I can't seem to get past the pain. Maybe because it just happens over and over? I should callous my heart to it? Numb myself somehow? Detach? <p>I will say this, God is a loving God. He is also a God of justice. That's the part of the personality of God people don't like to think about. <p>I am thoroughly discouraged. Heartbroken for kids, very worried about my oldest who has been so depressed that the word suicide even came out of his mouth because he can't take anymore. And H just continues on, sweeps things under the rug and wants to plan a family vacation for week of Father's Day. He doesn't get it-our 19b, 18b, and 13g want nothing to do with him. He acts like everthing is fine, tries to hug her, she pushes him away. (wonder where she saw that) There is no family anymore. We are fractured beyond belief.
[img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] I have told them, H and children, going to have to work this thing out somehow. Don't write him off. He's your Dad. I believe in miracles, that's what it's going to take.<p>Saw a pator friend today. May consider counseling with him. Am getting the younger kids involved in church programs to have help/input from other authorities in their lives. Loving, understanding
authorities. <p>I am exhausted-need to sleep. Was ill with siezure trouble today. Better now tho, just tired. <p>And yes I want some cheese to go with my whine!! [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>sobroken

Former and Love,<p>Hi. I have been doing a great deal of thinking about timelines in our M, conditions involving our children and my mental, emotional as well as physical well-being. For the time being I believe I must make a drastic change.<p>Seeing as D-day was a year plus ago, although I did not find MB until a couple months ago, I feel justified in my decision, under the intense circumstances we are in. During the time since DD we did not have the detailed descriptions of ENs to meet for one another, but part of the time I tried new and different things to make M better. This was during a time where I was not embittered, hurt but still working on things. Now I do not want to try to restore M. I need time away from H. Right or wrong, this where I am at. Anything I tried before has brought no change in H except the attitude now that he has permission from me to continue his behavior. Up until a while ago, best of both worlds, why not? No accountability, not getting caught flirting and starting new EAs. <p>Well, these children and myself are dying here. The stress level is too intense. The fighting and crying among them, angry outbursts, just sobbing and saying they hate their life. Mostly the older ones. I am responsible for their home situation am I not? As their parent? It has been a year we've been dealing with the tension and there is no change in sight. <p>Talked to H last night about it. After he had done the usual, gotten up from TV and walked up the stairs silently, sneaking off to bed. Making absolutely sure he won't have to discuss anything. This is typical. I went upstairs because I had intended all day to discuss our situation, seing as we're just floating along, no
conversation ever still. He told me last night that I have an attitude any time we are going to talk. I explained, you think we are going to work out the kind of problems that we are facing without any emotion or increase in heartrate? Remember, this is the man who was not allowed emotions while growing up. He feels nothing. (so doesn't see others feelings either.) He cannot cope with any verbal exchange that entails conflict resolution. As far as me having an attitude, it's true. I am to the point because he says we're working on things then never approaches me for conversation and merely continues his online activities, I don't believe he means any of what he says. Once again, I am being used and abused, plus how everything is impacting the children.<p>Last night I told him I want him to consider what we should do and let me know by the end of this coming week. Told him I am fully prepared to have him leave and go on state aid for myself and the kids. I did not say these things angrily, merely matter of factly for the sake of the kids and my my health and mental well being. I left out some other necessary facts like I'm looking for a divorce and we are still very much married, merely separated should we do this. <p>Sorry-need to run to take son to work. Be right back and finish. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Hi again,<p>I don't think you can fully understand what goes on here because I'm not taking the proper time to explain. For example, H and the 13g, 12b, and 7b are gone to the beach a few miles from us. I cannot bear to go and watch him check out all women on the beach, also being making sure he looks his coolest. MLC or not, the children see this, they see him chatting and laughing with women online. As long as I nor anyone else makes waves, everything is fine. I cannot be a loving hot wife with this going on. It goes directly against everything in me. Plus the fact that he is merely pretending to care about restoration of our M. He was on MB once, only because I pushed and said come see this. No, a couple of other times-he kept the MB window minimized while chatting-when I came into the room he'd pop it right up for me to believe he's sincere.<p>Another reason I want us to get some space is my LBs. I am so angry now that I am not keeping my mouth shut. Either I spend a lot of time crying and finally let somebody else be the recipient of my anger, or I say something to him. It really doesn't matter what or how I say things really, it is all threatening to him and he cannot deal with it. This is the way he's been all our M. <p>Need to get some dinner going. I am starting to ramble. I'm not feeling very optomistic about things. But am beginning to accept them. The only conversations we have are when I follow him around to talk or corner him. (in bed, etc.)
I'm not doing it anymore. He is the only one who can decide what he wants to do. I told him so last night. Raw deal for the kids. <img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" /> <img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" />

sobroken,
I am going go out on a limb here, try and focus on any good qualities your H may have. Once you and he make some kind of headway in reconciling any issues you have it gets easier. Try it for awhile you may be surprised. Sounds like your marriage is going downhill you need to turn it around and start the long climb back up that hill. Once you get to the top you will be happy you made the effort.<p>How do you expect your husband will act if he believes his marriage is over? Answer this honestly. From the sound of your posts it seems you may think it’s over just as much as he does. Thinking like that will not help you two get back together. If you’re LBing your H while he is in the fog it will only push him deeper into it. Your husband needs to wake up himself and you hitting him over the head with the frying pan will just knock him out. I do believe you’re here at MB to fix your marriage.<p>Think about how you can go about this differently. Try new things then look at the results. After you gather enough data you will have learned what your H likes, needs, and reacts to. <p>Have you been to IC? Sounds like you may need some help dealing with all this. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t mean this in a bad way. IC helped me figure out a lot of things that made and makes my M work. One of the side effects of IC is learning how to understand why you feel the way you do. Knowing this (the true reasons) aids in equipping you to deal with the issue at hand and move on to the next.<p>Give it a try for a while, it’s not going to change overnight but with some patience and time your marriage will heal.

Love_Her_Madly,<p>Beginning to feel like a broken record dumping on you guys. Feeling pretty wimpy. But I believe I am burnt. This may be why I am feeling resigned to the whole issue, but I am extremely concerned about our children. My 13g sat in this kitchen the other night sobbing uncontrollably. It began with some trivial thing, but led to the heart of the matter, our M, which is when the sobbing with shaking shoulders and a covered face began. She could not stop. It is easily visible in all their dealings the pain they are all experiencing. They could cope with their school, their jobs, etc, and
learning to deal with life, if the foundation of everything wasn't so shaken. I wish you guys could know how devastated their outlooks are. They are depressed, we go places and see families, they can barely face the world with the deep sadness they are experiencing. To see other families sharing joy at a Memorial Day Parade, i.e, is more pain. They feel it is unattainable.They remember when we used to be that way. They are grieving. <img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" /> [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>If there is not some kind of change immediately I must make a change, for their sakes. My 19 year old is finding unhealthy avenues to deaden his pain. My 18 year old did that last year when this all began, I don't want that again for him. Each of them has their anesthetics, I am responsible to help them in their pain, not let it continue. I feel it is much like not taking them to the doctors after seeing if their ailment is going to clear up on its own, then doesn't. The addictive traits in the family need to be broken. I am dealing with all these issues with our children, he ignores them, cause that means he has some of them! He has never tried to deal with them. It has always been up to me. All the talks about sex, all the conversations pertaining to life's issues have always been done by me and relayed to him after the fact. This is the way it's been all our M. He has been a great worker, faithful in his work, although in the last 8 years we have struggled terribly financially, never having enough $$ to meet the bills. He is a great playmate for the kids, not any kind of parent. Those issues are left for me. He has told me I don't allow him to parent, which may be partly truthful. I always read great parenting books and listened to tapes because I realized I was merely going to repeat the paterns of poor parenting I recieved in an alcoholic home. He never got involved in trying to learn how to parent. Can you imagine? Coming from such a crummy background and not thinking you need to learn how to parent? So when he would tell one of the kids, no, that doesn't hurt, or no, that's not so, negating genuine feelings like pain-emotion or physical-I would speak up. Want them to grow up crazy? Think they are nuts to have emotions?<p>I will say this. This is what I will do, if I can.
Even thought I feel justified in separation due to the conditions the children are experiencing, I will take the time to fill out the ENs and LBs questionaire, even tho I don't think it will do any good. I have told him all through our M what I needed, help learn how to parent, etc., he has never responded. He is still in that mode. Even moreso. As far as meeting his ENs, that's going to require a miracle. We are not having sex-I cannot. He tries to put his arm around me or even touches me and I recoil. Automatic response. Maybe you should read my response in my list of posts to a thread called wife refuses sex I believe it's called. Will give you more info about me. Now I am dealing with broken trust after recovering from it all my maturing years.<p>Need to run and get kids to school. Will check back in later. Have a great day and thanks-I know I can be stubborn, bullheaded. I also can take whatever is said to me so don't sweat being honest or "going out on a limb" with me. I will speak my mind. I am a survivor-weary-but a survivor. Have a great day.<p>sobroken

sobroken,
Well here is the deal. I may not know exactly how a BS feels, what I do know is how a WS feels and thinks while in the FOG. That's why I am trying to help you. I feel if you want your marriage to work you need to be the strong one here. Your husband is lost and he needs you to find him and bring him home. <p>Of course your husband is going to get upset if you pull away from him anytime he tries to make any type of physical advancements towards you. I know I would, and have. I bet it's one of his top 3 EN. I am hoping you fill out the EN questionnaire soon. You must understand your H's EN and he must yours. Right now he has his fantasy life (the EA) to turn to. Ask yourself this, if you had no troubles in your marriage would you be here at MB? If he had no marriage trouble would your husband be having an EA? As wrong as it is, this is how your H is dealing with his trouble. Your husband is thinking he has no reason to work on his marriage right now, and he will not. This is the way a WS thinks when in they are in the fog. I am sorry to say it's you that has to make the sacrifice. <p>No as far as history goes, your husband is not going to change his habits overnight. It took him a lifetime to learn them. You think he can? If you do, I am sorry to say you in for a let down. Always remember your H's actions come from habit. If you always brought up sex why would he ever have to? If you always did all the house work why would he do any? He never had to? Everything is learned in life. You can change yourself but you can never change another human being. You can have some influence on them. Give him reasons to want to change. <p>Now think about yourself. Do you have an issue with being the one who has to give in. Did he always agree with you just to make piece? If he did maybe this is how he is making his stand? Who knows there are so many possibilities to why things have and are going wrong. I will say it again seek IC and MC. You need to learn the real reasons why things are going wrong. You may have a guess but you have no idea what your husband is honestly thinking or feeling. Learning these things is SOOOOO very important in healing your marriage.<p>From your posts your kids are not dealing with this very well, well of course not. Kids are not equipt to deal with this stuff yet (not that we adults are). As far as dealing with this and the "anesthetics" they use, they might been doing the same thing even if this wasn't happening, justifying it with other reasons. I am not saying anything bad about your kids, all I am saying is kids have there own reasons for doing what they do and the biggest one is inexpedience in knowing how to deal with the issue at hand. Kids will be Kids plane and simple. Let me take a guess here maybe your kids are drinking or doing some drugs, hate to break it to you most kids do drink and do drugs. I believe the worst thing you can do at this time in their lives is be weak in front of them. Don't go looking to them to meet your EN or for moral support they are not equipt to give it to you yet. They will try but in doing so it could mess them up as well. Your children love you without a doubt and what is hurting them more then their father being the way he is the way this has effected you. You need to keep yourself together for their sake.<p>I need to get back to work so I will check up on you later. Hang in there and remember we all have been through this just like you are now.