For- I hope this finds you in better spirits and doing well. <p>(((((((((((((Forbetterorworse)))))))))))))<p>I know it gets lonely, frustrating and down right depressing. I couldn't imagine anything worse than what I went through last year at this time.. it's the same thing your going through. I don't know how I can help.. I just know that I am very glad I "fought" for my marriage. Now, looking back, I reallyyyyyyyy wish I had found this site last year. I dealt with all of the emotional rollercoasters with one person.. my best friend...She was an enourmous help and didn't really do anything.. never said anything negative about my H, was just "there" for me. My family couldn't believe I was "taking him back".. So, I couldn't really turn to them for support.. and When my H's "fog" cleared away, he was a wreck.. an emotional wreck.. he needed me more then than he ever did. <p>I encourage you to read, read, read and read some more.. Post your feelings and frustrations here and listen to the advice that those members who reached this site when they were in the same situation as you are in now. This site is a wealth of information and will help you recover from this without going in sane. <p>My heart goes out to you. I wish I were there in your area to give you a hug and be your friend.<p>But - well heck! I can do that from here [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I may be in Germany, but my arms can still reach you. <p>Have faith in yourself, and in God.<p>Robin

I can feel you hugs, Robin. Thank you very much.
It helps. I know the path I chose even though painful and with no guarranty at least want make feel ashamed years later.
Just need more stamina and patience.
Hope to hear from you sometimes. You bet I will be venting here.

Just reading posts waiting for H to come to sleep in our bedroom. I need more patience. I am not pushing for contact just I feel comforted falling asleep or waking up at night hearing his breath.
I know his not thinking about me now at all.
Oh well I know this is not going to be easy. I am working on my own patience for future sake. Of course can't help hoping for a miracle.
I am itching to go downstairs to talk to him but I won't.
Till tomorrow.

Please -any former WS who decided on their own to rebuild the marriage-
I know that Plan A can hurt. But is my H just in fog and continuing his A before my eyes only because his pursuing his newly found happiness in the natural way or is he challenging me on purpose, hurting me to get a reaction, executing some mean plan?<p>See I hurt but love him and I can't allow myself to make a stupid regrettable move.<p>I feel so lonely when I wake up and he's downstairs on the computer or on the phone. I would cry and be hysterical from pain because this is how I feel at the moment. And yet I can't do that so I wait patiently for my will to rebuild to come back. The pattern repeats daily.<p>Share your thoughts please.

I am so numb. Tomorrow is or 15th. I have a card. The most neutral from loving ones. Just expressing my side. My Plan A ing should not prevent me from expressing my love, right?
I am not expecting anything in return. But I wish it really would be a Happy Anniversary.
I will be alone ( just kids) again next week.
I need endurance.
Keep me in your thoughts please.

FBW, How painful this is I can only imagine. I am in a unique situation compared to most. My WH ended the A on his own; then waited 4 years to tell me about it. Go figure?<p>I can't imagine the agony you must be feeling. I hope you do something nice together for your anniversary. I know holidays like that are going to be hard for me this year as well.<p>It took alot of talking for my H to tell me the details about his A. It occurred during the time of one son's birthday, H's birthday, my birthday and our anniversary. I can hardly believe how many times he must have looked me in the eye telling me how much he loved me while the A was ongoing. Sheesh...<p>I wish I could think of something helpful to say to help you feel better. I know I am impressed with your courage and ability to not LB with him. Bless you, I'll check back on you. Let me know how you are doing ok? CSue

Hi,
just to report one unexpectedly truly happy, day!!
I offered my card in the morning, which was accepted, then we went for a morning coffee and later I got invited for a dinner at really elegant steakhouse. And before dinner, I got roses and a Happy Anniversary balloon. What really made my day in the morning was that he agreed to my statement that I really appreciate those 15 years!
Days like today keep me going strong for long! And the dinner was very nice, the conversation on my part hopefully not too awful, I really tried to listen rather then interrupt. I think I will be sleeping calmly tonight.
Thank you to those who think and pray for us.

Dear forbetter,<p>I am glad you had a good day. Your H sounds like he really was not ready to come back to his family. He did not have proper appreciation for you and your family. I can relate to that. My H came back initially because of his guilt and financial need. Said he cared for us but kept on seeing and PAing the OW. Arrgh..... [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Then the nutty PBR (psyco babble rabbit - OWs earned name), claimed prego and started to show her true colors. They eventually will. <p>Here is some plan A and plan B info that helped me:<p>
Plan A & Plan B info.
Taken from the basic concepts section:<p>What is the purpose of Plan A taken from the basic concepts section):<p> plan A, an effort to end the affair with thoughtfulness and care, doesn't always work. In many cases a wayward spouse is so trapped by the addiction that he or she does not have the will-power to do the right thing. Once in a while the fog lifts and the cruelty and tragedy of the affair hits the betrayed spouse right between the eyes. In a moment of grief and guilt, he or she promises to end it. But then the pain of withdrawal symptoms often brings back the fog with all its excuses and rationalization, and the affair is on again. <p>Sometimes a wayward spouse settles into a routine of having his or her cake and eating it too. In an effort to win the wayward spouse back, the betrayed spouse meets emotional needs that the lover cannot meet, while the lover meets emotional needs that the wayward spouse has not learned to meet. {b]While this competition is excruciatingly painful to the betrayed spouse, and the lover as well, the wayward spouse basks in the warmth of being loved and cared for by two people, with no real motivation to choose one over the other.{/b] <p>
Plan B akso taken from the basic concepts section):
to avoid an indefinite period of suffering while a wayward spouse vacillates between spouse and lover, and to avoid rewarding the selfish behavior of having needs met by both spouse and lover, if plan A does not work within a reasonable period of time, I recommend plan B. <p>Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery. In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B. <p>
&#8230;In general, I recommend separation when at least one spouse cannot control destructive behavior. An ongoing affair, of course, is one of those situations. Hence, plan B. <p>But in some cases, the safety risks are so great that plan B should be implemented immediately, with no time for plan A. In these cases, treatment for the abusive habit must take place during separation, and some evidence must exist that the risk has been greatly reduced, or completely eliminated, before the spouses should return to each other. Then, after being together again, the formerly abusive spouse should be held accountable by others for his or her behavior to assure the other spouse's safety. <p>In other cases, such as annoying behavior or failure to meet important emotional needs, where thoughtlessness does not reach the level of physical or mental abuse, plan A should be given quite a bit of time and effort before resorting to plan B. Remember, plan A is negotiating (without anger, disrespect or demands) to eliminate the annoying behavior or improve the meeting of emotional needs. A blanket agreement between spouses to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement goes a long way toward eliminating these thoughtless acts, and can also help couples learn to meet each other's needs with enthusiasm. But without that policy, couples often find that they cannot get anywhere with each other through negotiation, and sometimes separation can eventually lead to mutual recognition that they need the Policy of Joint Agreement to help them resolve conflicts. <p>Please let me know what you thoughts are on the above info. <p>take care,

Hi Orchid,
Thank you for your post. You know, initially on the D-day my first thought was for myself to move out, to detach myself from the pain, and worrying and overprotecting the kids etc.
Then I realized it was just another version of my extremely immature and cowardly suicidal thoughts that I had 14 years ago.
Besides I really want to keep our problems to ourselves till we reach some outcome and this action would be impossible to cover. So I decided upon Plan A but promising to myself to not demand or direct H for actions, just let him know that I do love and care for him, I do want the better marriage, not just to stuck him in the unfulfilling one so the choice is all his.
My choice is to improve me first before I can discuss and negotiate any changes.
And so we proceed. He obviously is still on the fence. I hardly would call him a cake eater or basking in love since the whole deal is very emotionally heartwrecking for him as well. There are our kids who have good relations with him, in many ways they relate much better with him than with me.
Besides if we separated then how I could learn and practice better behaviour.
Besides
Quote: "In other cases, such as annoying behavior or failure to meet important emotional needs, where thoughtlessness DOES NOT REACH the level of physical or mental abuse, plan A should be given QUITE A BIT OF TIME and effort before resorting to plan B. Remember, plan A is negotiating (without anger, disrespect or demands) to eliminate the annoying behavior or improve the meeting of emotional needs."<p>He is definetely caring and nonabusive, and the continuation of contact with OW although painful for me is not cruel per se since he did not declare he stops it and I left this decision to him, without demanding it.<p>Well that said since it is about a month from the D-day, the plan for the next month or two is
for him to take a really long vacation alone ( meaning without me or the kids). Then he'll be back and we'll probably talk then. He will benefit from the vacation anyway job wise, he does work hard and could not fulfill FN any better ( I could always trust in his support even when we were young and just starting out).<p>It won't be an easy time for me. I keep thinking though if it would be me falling in love what I would need to sort things out. And I guess it would take me some time too to decide if I want to work hard on the M or to start fresh from scratch in seemingly very happy and promising union.
Of course I do worry if the OW will use this time to develop their R onto better and better levels. I do not know and will not try to uncover the exact plans for the vacations unless he will tell me.<p>As far as contact between us for that time I will ask him to call me or the kids anytime he wants, And I will try to refrain again from any contact other than emergencies.<p>I know I will be able to manage practical matters. Since he travels a lot I had plenty of practice. There might be some issues because of time off school, but they will be solved.<p>And last month, although hard, did comfort me in that I will never be ashamed of what I did or said during this time. And I am already better looking and stronger woman than before.<p>I will be posting more for sure.

I feel so tired. When H is not around all my strength and power to be upbeat and postive and loving and pleasant to be around just evaporates. I cried today almost every occasion nobody was around. I really don't know how I 'll be able to manage his 6 weeks absence. 2 of those weeks I will be completely alone, kids gone too. Especially if he'll still be on the fence.
I just read all of my sweetest and nicest winter emails from him. I can't say how happy they made me feel then- it was only 5 months ago but seems like long time ago now.
I wish I could look at this spring/summer a year from now and again wonder how distant it feels.
Who knows....

I was reading, not posting for the past few days.
To reinforce myself at good plan A and also to prepare for the upcoming 7 weeks of his absence.
I do not feel strong now at all. I can barely hold myself from talking about relationship. Our, not the A, but it is intermingled. I wish he could leave me some hope but on the other hand I am not sure if I am prepared enough to handle the bad news right now. Plus judging from other posts it is actions not words that count.
I resolved to be calm and relaxed and patient this weekend. We have planned a family/Father day trip together.
I want it to be a pleasant weekend for all of us.
So I will hold back and be my best wife and mommy. No feedback though is killing me. I hope maybe it is withdrawal on his part but on the other hand the EA is possibly still going ( i do not spy) not to mention PA may well be planned for the time away from us. <p>I only asked when he's coming back. Not if, although that should be my question probably.
I will have to deal with kids missing him as usual when he is away. Keeping own feelings at bay not to sway them unconsciously either way.<p>Sometimes I feel like it's all bad dream or my imagination but I know it's not even though nothing has been said in the past month or nothing really happened since the D-day that I am aware of.
I don't think I will initiate any contact while he's gone, will be posting here instead because I know there will be moments that I would just scream and wail from loneliness and pain and unknown.
I am reading SA book. Do you think counseling just for me would be helpful?
Our parents called to congratulate us on the 15th anniversary. I just smiled and nodded.
I feel drained and numb now. I will try to sleep so I will not look awful tomorrow...
I keep fixing little things around the house, cooking dinners that get compliments from the kids, put makeup and have nicer hair, generally I am helpful and open. No hugs or kisses other than a pat on my shoulder when I leave for work initiated always by me, and sometimes one in the evening. I touch his hand sometimes and my hand is not rejected immediately but he never reaches back. Well I am used to minimal affection but what hurts that I thought he is not the affectionate type but I was wrong. I have hard time practicing and improving on conversation since I seem always to find him busy or gone or asleep or tired, and I know pushing for a talk is busting a conversation anyway. Maybe tomorrow during driving?
I need to pack but I'll do it in the morning. I am too distracted now.

We celebrated Father's Day in a really nice way. I find myself forcibly trying to enjoy just the moments without remembering the underlying issues. Sometimes it happens, but mostly I can't help but to dwell on my pain.<p>I saw other posts about the danger of seeing one little sign of improvement and making it into too much. Well, since no promises had been made I am in no danger of that. How I am supposed to deal with my missing him physically for so long? I don't want to quash my longing form him, I don't think I would fall for a substitute despite being warned about that, venting here helps, but only in certain way.<p>I did try to express my feelings and my plan for the absence today again in a calm and short way. I do not know if it was smart or not, I feel more hurt know that I was was a month ago and can't help but think about their thoughtless actions. I am to blame for a lot but there was ( and still is) plenty of opportunities to heal sick situation. I only mentioned my feelings, did not talk or asked about the A.<p>I can't sleep and neither can he apparently, I am alone again upstairs.
I hope maybe when I will be really alone it I will just face the situation and will hurt less than it hurts now.

Dear MBers,
I will need to ask you for more help in listening and advising me.<p>I am still in Plan A but I am subject to 8 weeks separation from H due to his business/vacation trip. It is not a Plan B on my part - I am not definetely ready for it yet. <p>I am not in good shape right now.
I will be posting frequently, possibly at night since I still have avoided sharing my situation with any of my friends/ family/kids and I do not want to call H to have disastrous RT, feelings and A talk.<p>I do not intend to spy. <p>Thanks.

Hi,
another lonely weekend ahead of me.
Not feeling strong at all. My self esteem very low again.
Before he left I did something which I am not sure was a love buster or not.<p>An action of him let me know he looks forward to physical aspect of the A.
Knowing he well might spent the whole 7 weeks away from me with her, I decided I had to tell him how hurt I am. And to remind him that I hope we will use this time to think about what he wants to do. I did not demand to disclose or change his plans.
I did it really briefly, calmly and not in a demanding or judgemental mammer. He got upset. I reminded him again that I just try to express my feelings at the moment, not to hide behind my isolation wall because it it the last positive thing ( honesty with my own feelings and trusting enough to express them) that I am left with since February. He seemed to calm down and hopefully understand my position, did not promise a thing though.<p>I am afraid if he will not contact me during his absence I will get paranoid and start snooping around just to find out where he is and what he is doing. I want to avoid that at all costs beacause in the long run it will destroy any remaining good opinion about myself in my own eyes.<p>You were right about being vulnerable to an A myself.<p>Right now I'd like to test if I am really that bad looking or in a SR just to hear something nice finally and get some affection too. I will not do it now. I just feel so lonely. He is the only partner I've known.<p>If any ot previous avdvsiors are here, please comment and help me.<p>Kids are having big sleepover/pool party- that keeps me busy but the noise prevented any sleep tonight.<p>Keeping myself AWAY from the phone, email, and food. Venting here.

Hi,
for the first time really since D-day I feel anger in addition to hurt and confusion.
I realized that despite him being in fog I did signal clearly my pain and yet he's ignoring my feelings and keeeps doing hurtful things and confusing me.<p>If he sees ANY chance of him giving up OW and working on our M, why in H*** he's making it next to impossible for me to trust and stay, and work hard.<p>If he already made his mind to leave me, why not tell me and let me go. Why torture me with waiting for a decision.<p>Usually he is very decisive guy, will not bother with "maybe" discussions - he will only discuss a subject ( like a major purchase) when he's already committed and acts right away.<p>I am realllly close to telling him how I feel. I will not, at least not today, I understand it is against Plan A.<p>You know what I hate too - I asked him to send me short informative emails or brief calls so I would know if he's OK and keep me from bothering him- remember - he is thousand miles away for 7 weeks. He did not do it for past 3 days (it does not seem too long, hovewer no email means to me he is not doing business as I was told this trip is partially about ( vacation was to be added to it). I told him I love and miss him alot and this time will be very trying on me to stay calm. I can't help that my kids miss him and tell me so and wonder if he called.<p>Does he want me to blow up, be hysterical, break down, loose my job, let everybody know what's going on so it will be easier for him to leave an unhappy irrational nutcase?<p>I had to vent. I have images in my head all the waking hours. I thought I'm strong and independent enough...

FBOW
I have had some time now to read through what you have posted. I know we have been chatting on another posting but I hadn't been able to read more of your story until now. My W and I are at the one month stage now, she found out, I lied. She found out more, I told the truth. Things are getting better, she in on Plan A and I am trying to be on best behavior. I have printed off two copies of the EN Questionnaire and we will fill them out tonight. All I can say is that if you love the man, don't give up and let him go. If my wife had just accepted what I had done and taken the easy path of throwing me out, we would be in a lot worse state then we are now. It is her strength, not mine, that is getting this thing going again. I do regret what I did, I am sorry for the pain I caused and I hope she will find it in herself to forgive me for it. There was a time when I seriously though it would be better if we split. I may be fooling myself, but I believe that I was not leaving for another woman. I was leaving because the problems I was facing at home. I don't want to give any advice here as I am in no position to do so, but if make home a more attractive option(and show seperation for what it is,difficult), your H may come around to his senses.<p>Good luck and dont give up.

Hello Initdeep,
thank you for you post and encouragement.
I will stand by my man. Even though I have no commitment from him, he is worth waiting and working on turning our M an myself for better. I have memories to prove it. And yes we too do have children, which need nurturing from both of us. You and Fishwife have a long way uphill to go but you are walking together.
I wish you the best.
Please drop a line once in a while, though you probably wan't see much more than venting from me for the next 7 weeks.
Later - who knows.
You know, for me it is harder to understand and forgive lying than actual A (not that I don't have vivid imagination).
He did send me short informative email today- still on business part of the trip - so I hope he does still consider fulfilling some of my needs.
I wish I knew how to guide him to this site or to read books without being demanding or judgemental.
I know I am learning skills and techniques from them - just like parenting - some people are more talented in R, some not.
I do sometimes think it might be easier just to let go know - but it took us 15 years to get to this stage so what right do I have to hope it can turn around in a month or two.
Please, as much as you can, cooperate with your wife - her amazing strength has it limits too.
With EN questionnaire you'll know what to do and so will she.

Hi FBOW-It sounds like you could use a little encouragement! I have been in similar straits;when my H wasin training for his new job they were sending him up to MI for a week at atime, home on weekends, and he would never callor anything. Of course this was back when I was still oblivios (sp?) so it never ocurred to m that he could be with someone else.
You should feel proud of yourself for the Plan A you are doing-it is so hard not to say what you are really thinking or feeling, and I know my tongue is sore from biting it! You and I are lucky to be able to come here to vent, where others will understand and support us. I have no one else to talk to, and I can relate to the loneliness you are feeling. As a mom I sometimes just think how important for my kids to try to save our M-that helps me thru the times I would just chuck it all in if it were just me.
Hang in there, FBOW-you are not alone.
Well, not entirely [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

Shaz87,
thank you for support.
Isn't it crazy that we find it comforting that other people share similar misery?<p>For me, because I have such a big fear of failure that I'd rather not try, doing Plan A is hard. <p>Honestly I hope Plan A will restore a bit of my self-esteem so I will not fail entirely no matter what.<p>I read your posts before, too, so best luck sticking to your goals.

Stress starts to affect me physically. I hoped that images/obsessive thoughts will diminish over time. Maybe initial shock and numbness is wearing off ( after 6 weeks???)
I can't sleep. Have funny feelings in my chest/stomach. I suspect it's all in my mind though.

Couldn't feel any closer to MB "addiction" topic and many "please let me be strong enough NOT to call my WS" posts.

I know that only my actions and diligent plan A should be important to me. I feel so lonely and frustrated though.

Especially when I see other posters at least have some dynamics in their ordeals.
How to Plan A successfully from a distance if I had hardly any practice in person? When I try to limit contact to avoid pushiness, lecturing, and whining?
How to really become as strong and normal as my outer image hopefully projects?
How can I boost my self esteem if there is nothing to measure it against?
The challenging practical task right now for me is to sign kids up for usual activities for fall. Registration forms started to arrive, how do I plan those schedules if I am unsure what tomorrow brings?
Should I just sign up like there are no problems and worry about time and money when it gets to it?
See I hate promising something and being unable to deliver. How to talk about need of transportation from H without making it appear demanding larger commitment? Should I skip asking H altogether and just choose those that I can arrange myself?

Robin, I could use one more hug. I cannot fail myself.