Hi,

I am not doing too well. I don't know, is it long time stress, no or little progress after a month of my hopes for bettering my relationship with H or what.
I am back to crying at night and panic attacks during the day. My hands sweat and my heart huerts and beats like crazy.
I can't seem to find a way to communicate nicely the simplest issues. My H, even when I get him to pay attention accuses me of being mean and hurting towards everbody, kids included, that I can't let go of little details, that I ruin everybody's day askonig for stuff to be done or put away or things cleaned up or put away.
I guess I still don't know how to ask not demand. Or maybe there is no proper way, maybe those are the things that he'll never do, asked nicely or not. So if I am not willing to shut up or put up I should leave?

I am so scared. I know now I CAN leave, I will be able to take care of myself and kids and cats with or without him. Ie. physical needs. But what about destroying our family and taking them away from their dad?
I know you'll tell me that my family rifht now is a fiction anyway, he is not willing to give up OW as a friend, he does not want to make any effort filling my EN, he does not any EN from me.

I don't know, may be it is really me being crazy and unpleasant and *****y and demanding; how are you being able to ask for help with chores, with projects, how do you ask for hugs and support when you are lonely, how you explain nicely you lost all your trust but you are willing and trying to build it back, you just need SOME help and suggestions from the other party.

Am really ready for plan B?
What if kids refuse to move away with me, if they tell me they rather stay with their dad? He loves them and is kind, warm, forgiving and easy on them, and I am the one who asks and controls and disciplines and reminds them of hard things.
I don't know if I could bear this type of situation. I can't even say it would be rejection, I know they would be terrible unhappy and terrified with making a choice, yet they are old enough not being forced into anything.

The moment I am done with finding renters and I will have more time I am going for therapy for myself, before I decide anything. If I am really crazy or sick right now, how can I make right decision?

Also, I blew my weight loss thing again. Winter was always hard on me, I have to be back to last yea slimmer me to feel good again.

Maybe I am hopeless nrealistic?
I don't know, I am just so very unhappy and unloved and lonely and out of ideas now.
SS, don"t worry, I'll be over it, hopefully soon.
FBOW

the man is playing u for a fool, tell him to get lost move in with that other lady, u deserve much better than that, and so does ur daughter. I;d have his clothes outside in a bag for him to pic them up, he needs counseling and guidance.He still will do as he wants cause u let him. Sorry to be abrubpt, but thats not how God intended marriage to be.

((((((((FBOW))))))))
Dear FBOW, I am going to be completely honest with you, you can tell me to get lost, you can scream and shout, but I will still be here for you if you need me.

FBOW, when I read your second last post, my immediate thoughts were "this girl is settling for far less than she deserves". FBOW we ALL need love and we are all motivated in one way or another to get it. Sometimes the way we get it seem to others to defeat the purpose but for us at the time its the only way we can see that we can get it.

For many of us our greatest fear is that of rejection. We are like children fearful that we will be left alone, noone to care, noone to love us or help us through. This is not unique to you or me, many people are like this.

When I read your last post I felt pain and frustration in your words. You need love and intimacy FBOW, but the type you need you cannot get from your husband right now maybe ever, the kind you need you may or may not get from your kids. I'm taking about self love.

Yes, you can look after yourself and you may or may not be better or without H. Walking away may do one of two things, it may save the relationship or it may end it, but FBOW can you continue to live like this? You had a plan of action and it seemed you were going ahead well. Did you get scared? If you did, fear is just a feeling, it cannot hurt you and if you face it, albeit a second at a time eventually it will loose power and become your friend. And we will all be here for you, what about in 'real life' is there support for you?

I don't think you are sick FBOW, I think you are stressed to a point that you feel you are going crazy. When the stress is removed you will be able to think better.

Believe me I know this is hard. Making such decisions has got to be the hardest thing you will ever do as you do not know what the consequences are till sometime later. But you can only do what is best for you right now, you do not know the future, the future cannot be predicted. Just work on now. Even if you can get right away from the situation for a time that will allow you to think about what you need to do.

What does FBOW need to do to save herself right now? What does God want FBOW to do right now to live the life he believe she deserves?

Take care
Liz

Hi Seahorse.
I had two horrible days.
I know I could avoid those had I kept myself busy with something focused.
I know you write straight from your heart and you know the love and pain and fear and hard decision making firsthand.
And I know you and other MBrs will be there for me.
I hope counseling will help me to deal with stress. I also need to spend more time with kids, as long as they will want to do that.
ANd I do need to leave my H alone.

Now I just have to do it. Take care and interest in ME, and do it, no ifs or buts.

I am happy for you that you are getting out meeting people. It does show that you did progress to another stage.

Keep your fingers crossed for me, please I soon should get my yerly review and hopefully a raise.
You know, I could use more money, but even more that this would let me know that I am doing a good job and I am needed there.

Again, don't worry if I won't be posting much. I usually lurk though.

A big hug back. I needed the one from you. Thank you.
FBOW

Hi FBOW,

I have to be quick here. I wanted to let you know I pop in and look. Not as often as I used to. Right now, for the next month I will be very busy.

I know, Sue.
My thoughts are with you for all the tests and schoolwork ahead of you. I can only imagine how exhausted you must feel. The reward time is near, though...
FBOW

Hello FBOW,
I often wish I could help much more than I do, but lets talk anyway.

I think Seahorse hit on the most important issues.
Fear
Self Love ( or self confidence)
and Stress reduction.

Sometimes I try a and lay out choices and suggestions to give ideas - simple problem solving, but can we talk a little about these three things today? Just kind of examine them a little bit?

I don't believe you are afraid of things you can get your hands on. Things like where will I live, (because you have the house) what will I do for a job, and so on. It is the emotional unknown that you fear. From the things you talk about, and ask about, it looks like you fear not having love and companionship. I am struggling to write this in a helping way, that won't make you doubt your self even more, so bear with me.

Lets go another direction and then come back to this.

Everyone grows at a different pace, and everyone has different talents. You are very intelligent. and you know it. You have a sharp mind, and good training and you know you can perform in a difficult environment, because you do it every day at work. You know you can run the home by your self because you have done that ( mostly ) for a year now. You can take care of these details in your life - and you know you can.

So if you do so well at these things, what do you fear, and why do you fear it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Even in high school you wondered if you were lovable. You wanted someone to care for you and protect you. You wanted a life long friend, a companion and lover. This isn't news, we all want these kind of things, but you had self doubts way back then, and still do in this area.

I want you to understand that this is not something you should be ashamed of. All of us have our strong and weak points. We can use our strengths to help us overcome our weaknesses. Look at all that you have done so far. I mean, look at your life. Examine the positive things you have done, even in holding your M together this last year, in not giving up. Please take some time with this part, and give yourself credit for all the hardships you have overcome. Don't gloss over it, and skip to the next paragraph, or we can't get this done properly. Make a list of ALL OF THESE VERY GOOD THINGS if you have to write it to see it correctly.

Can you see why we speak well of you? ( you don't have to answer this to us, just to yourself) Can you see why we have faith in you?

Now, you are not perfect, and both you and I know that. Still seeking is not perfect, and though Liz is closer, she still has some things to work on too. Sue wishes she (also, with you and I) could loose some weight. Sometimes she LB's when she shouldn't - and so do I.

You sometimes think that because you are not perfect yet, that somehow you don't measure up in anything. Well, ( ss grimaces) that is not entirely true, but I think you may get what I am trying to get across. You fear loss of love, you fear loss of respect, you fear that even the girls may choose him over you.

It's fear of the unknown.
What will happen? How will I cope if the worst happens?
How will I ever be able to do this?

I can't answer that part about what will happen, and I can't answer the HOW part of "how will I ever be able to do this?" But I can say with absolute trust and faith in you that you can do it.

Liz is right. Just because your H doesn't show you love right now does not mean you are not lovable. It means he made a big mistake. Just because your daughter is a teen with boyfriend problems and she sometimes rejects your advice does not mean you don't know anything or that the girls don't love you. Again, look at all that you have done. Please be honest about the good things you do, and have done.

It is natural when these things are pointed out to you to say " See, this stuff is not that bad, but I feel like a wreck, and I haven't been able to figure this out for myself, so I really am a failure."
Or something to that effect. Those feelings come to all of us, and you know that because you said this:
I don't know, I am just so very unhappy and unloved and lonely and out of ideas now. SS, don't worry, I'll be over it, hopefully soon.

What I would like to see is a FBOW that knows she will succeed emotionally, and has faith in her emotionally abilities, just like the FBOW that went out and bought and prepared the house to be rented. Sue knows it about herself, even though she permits some self doubt as a reality check. Liz is just now realizing she has what it takes,( well, for a few months) and realizing that she has always had it, and you have always had it, and just need to know that for yourself. You are not that same girl that wondered in high school if anyone would ever love her. You know rationally that it is true, but emotionally you have been so battered that you still doubt.

Don't take a cue from your H, or even from your daughters. All of us doubt sometimes, especially when we have troubles, and you have had troubles like sunshine in the Sahara. Look at those good things again - that's you, you really did those good things and you had to work hard for them. You have a right to feel good about them. Don't' take responsibility for the bad things that H and daughters do. You may have not been perfect, but that doesn't give H the right to have an A and you know it. Let him own his mistakes and let your daughters own theirs. Teach them correct principals and let them govern themselves with a little guidance from you when it's needed.

Remember that you have to have an outlet for all this stress. You are dealing with way more than anyone ever ought to have to deal with. It's not normal, nor is it right, but you still have to deal with it. I don't know how to tell you to deal with it, but you need to give it thought and then act on it, even it means leaving H and daughters alone and going somewhere ( like going home and visiting relatives) by yourself. IF H and daughters want to come, fine, if not, go anyway.
I'm not saying this is what you need to do, but you need to find something to look forward to and do it. Something to put your effort into that will take away some of the stress.

Perhaps H would go with you without daughters? Ah, but now I am adding to the stress by making suggestions that are hard to talk about with H. Perhaps it's time to leave you to think.

Thank you for talking with me. I hope you will realize that you are doing well for the problems you face. Perhaps when you read this you were already feeling much better, but think about this anyway - Yes you need to work on some things, but you are good at other things, and those strengths will help you. Define the things that need the most work, and see what you can accomplish.

If some days you feel angry, hurt, and think that it won't ever work, remember that we all have those days, and that those feelings will pass. Just hold off reacting to them until you feel better.

Remember that we are just a support group, I bet the Harley's, or Penny ( cerri) could be a great help to you, so think about that too.

Still praying for you.

SS

Sue, and Seahorse, I kind of used you for examples without permission, If I was off, correct me.

SS- use me as much as you want.

Sometimes Sue LB's because she can and she wants to. Sometimes, it feels good. (not all the time, only once in a great while).

Now FBOW

quote from SS
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Just because your daughter is a teen with boyfriend problems and she sometimes rejects your advice does not mean you don't know anything or that the girls don't love you. Again, look at all that you have done. Please be honest about the good things you do, and have done. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I still remember my teen years. My parents were the dumbest creatures on the face of the earth. They just did not get it. They did not understand how things are "today". After all, things were different in their day. --- Okay, eventually reality hit home, and guess what, my parents were not the stupid people I thought they were. They actually knew a thing or two. (or more) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> It is the teen thing you have to go through. She is just excerting her independence and wants to figure stuff out by herself. I am so glad I have a couple of years left before I have to deal with the teen stuff.

My oldest is already telling me that I don't know everything. OOOOOOOHHHHHHH!!!!!!, he no longer thinks I know everything. I am so let down. I recall when the sun rose and set because I told it to. (or ate least in his eyes).

Parenting and teens - sort of like water and oil.

Sue, you are so "ON".

FBOW, continue to look after the important things, you still have my prayers for your happiness.

SS

Hi FBOW, just wondering how you are doing?
SH

FBOW

Thanks for your reply.

Hi FBOW,
I wonder a great deal about you. Sometimes I wonder if I chased you away from your own thread, but I hope not.

I have no good news to share, had a baaad day, no progress in R in two weeks, hopefully yesterday's/today's mistakes/misunderstandings will get their time in conversation someday. Which stopped happening again. Going to ind. counseling first session next Thursday. I have no clue what to expect. It was difficult to find anybody accepting both my insurance and new clients and appointments not totally midday ( since I work 8-5). Hoping to get some skills and maybe insight why I can't let go, even for Plan B.

I don't have proper training to know, but I am afraid that it is your fears. The life that you live is known, even it if is bad, and most of us fear what we don't know or understand.

With all that you say, there is a great deal you leave out. I am sorry for the bad day(s). I hope that no progress in two weeks means that before this two weeks, there was some progress.
Have you gotten your hopes up only to have them dashed again?

From your few comments, I wonder if you are stuck and wonder how to go on.

You know that we can't tell you WHAT to do, but only offer support and make suggestions. Please take this as support, as I continue to wonder how to best help you. I do continue to pray for you.

SS, if you see this, hi, and that's it for posting for a while.
I try to keep track of you. I can't imagine how difficult it must be right now, because I haven't been there where you are.
I do care. In case you didn't know, God continues to watch over you.

SS

Hi,

Sue, I was following your last week struggles. Just like SS I keep thinking positive thoughts about you and hope it'll help you pass the last important test despite your pain/meds/H issues.

SS, thanks again for being out there for me.
My DD anniversary is soon. Last year I could barely make it thru each passing hour, now, although I have bad days and moments of despair and discouragemnet, I do feel I made progress with myself.
My H is still home with us, kids are solving their own teenage issues, hopefully a year from now it will be better along M life.
I went to a M counselor and will continue to do so maybe once every two weeks. Just to get more practical skills and get some support and maybe more positive and sharper eye for spotting progress.
I got really thoughtful cards from my kids. It seems they do notice and appreciate my parenting efforts and struggles.
They know not all is peachy. Younger one is very close and open with me, older one is sad ( broke with BF, after 2 years) I am very proud of her as she's braver and more outspoken despite having similar fears and insecurities as myself.

SS, Seahorse, Sue, see you around here later.

FBOW

I said more and lost it all. I hate it when you are loggin one moment, and logged out the next.

Anyway, progress sometimes is measured in baby steps.

I'm glad your kids remembered mothers day. (my H was brain dead yesterday). Kids remembered. Made me cool stuff at school

Hey FBOW, you sound better. Take care.

Heyyyyyy Youuuuuuu
Yes FBOW, that would be YOU.

You still have a cheering section, Just so you know.

SS

Stopping by to say Hi and how are you?

Hi, Sue, SS, Seahorse,
thanks for checking on me. I am OK, had a fiend over for few days, internet outage, so did not even lurk for a while.
SUE!!! Congratulations! You did it! Let's hope your brace will be taken off the 30th.

I had my second counseling session. For 45 minutes I keep talking and sobbing but I guess this is OK. Sad part my insurance doesn't agree to the copay only, and at 100 a pop I won't go too often.
Will let you guys know. Otherwise nothing really different. I yearn for my H yet try to keep myself busy with life. Relationship with kids is better. Not a landlord yet <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
FBOW

Hi FBOW,

Thanks -

Everything has a way of falling into place.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> 45 minutes I keep talking and sobbing but I guess this is OK. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is bloody brilliant - this is a positive step forward towards healing.

Good on you!

SH