I know it's hard, but I had to laugh about this one. (sorry)

stick to my no candy/icecream/excessive bread resolution - which unfortunately did not go well at all this week.

Me either.
Icecream was the downfall here, how about on your end?

SS

SS,
Haegen Dazs new flavors are to blame. One kept calling me from the shelf, and I succumbed to the temptation. Creme Brulee flavor. Lucky for me though deliciously creamy, it was way too sweet, so now I don't think other flavors ( Bananas Foster were next in line...) will get me any time soon.
But they still make those almost healthy sounding Three Musketeers (Big on chocolate not on fat), right, right, plus 4 for buck made them even more irresitible.
BUT as the dieticians say, that's in the past, I am looking forward brighter future. If I don't buy them, then I won't eat them - it's that simple for me. ( Simple but not easy).

Have a fun weekend,
FBOW

I don't think I could give up chocolate/ice cream or bread even if there was a gun to my head. I shudder to think of life without it.

I envy anyone who attempts it.

I was very surprised when my H asked me to go. A couple of days later, he took our oldest golfing. (OS, did better than mom on his first day out) <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> (just kidding on the tears. I'm happy that he did)

What sort of activiteis does your H do that you think you might enjoy?

I know it is hard to motivate yourself when life around feels like it is falling apart. When that happens, I force myself to get moving, even though I don't feel like it. It is so easy to fall into a routine of doing not much.

Do you get migrains often, or has it been lately with your situation?

Hi Sue,
I don't get migraines, luckily, just bad headaches once in a while, usually resolving after taking a couple of Tylenols. I can't say if I had them less or more before the meds; I don't think there is much difference either way. Most of the time I know I am affected by the changes in the weather - I have rather low blood pressure so I thrive on coffe, and might be that I overdo it sometimes.

I had a nice, relaxing Labor Day with friends and kids ( and OD BF, but no H). Well I have to do more stuff alone or just with the kids, I still offer invitation to H but I started going out without him. Kind of still making me sad, but I need to prepare for whatever the future brings.

I hope yours was a good day too.
FBOW

HI FBOW,
It is pretty plain that you feel better the last few weeks. Probably a good testmony of anti D's.

It has been some time since I posted a really heavy post to you. I would tonight except I am not in the right mood to do it, I haven't thought enought, and my fingers won't type very well. Except for that, I could do it.

Your decisions are postponed, but still out there waiting. I have thought more about how you are doing things. You are very good at turning the other cheek, and loving someone that is hurting you. I admire that in you. I have to believe that if God teaches us to do those things, and you do them, that you will get help.

My only other suggestion is to become unpredictable. Make him wonder what you will do next, where you are, what you are up to. See if you can get his attention. Hide all the money and see if he notices THAT. Well, maybe not that drastic, but it doesn't hurt to try things. You won't break him, because he is already broken and needs fixing.

Sometimes it's hard to know what to say.

I see a pretty confident person though, and one that will do well no matter what. I think you see her too these days. I really think you do.

SS

Hi there FBOW, I am not sure whether I am to say, I am glad you are still here, or I am sorry you are still here. I will read through all your posts tomorrow and catch up with your situation. Thanks for dropping me a line. Can you tell me if you have any adverse effects from the meds, and whether coming off them is a problem or not?.

Thanks

Hi FBOW,
Sending care and concern your way.

W has been sick again today, I often worry about her but not much I can do except get her things when she asks for them. I think about you now, and wish you had help when you need it so badly.

I don't know how you are today, but remember that you have friends that care. Take care of your precious daughters, they need you. Take care of you, for their care depends on your health and safety. I still say you are an amazing peson, it is easier now for me to support that statement with fact, because know you better now.

Praying for your health, strength, and happiness.

SS

Hi SS,
Thank you.
Ups and downs, as expected. Right now kind of higher than the rest of the weekend.
My H called from his trip a moment ago. We did not talk much but at least I will nor worry if he got there safely and I am happy to think that maybe he did consider my feelings ( I did ask him while he was leaving to stay in contact via phone or email, hopefully daily, he did not say anything and I did not insist on hugging goodbye, just waved to him when he was leaving the garage. It did look to me like he semi smiled back - which would be great - He did not smiled to me for over a year now.
I was praying at church today - you know, miracles do happen sometimes.
FBOW

Yes, Miracles do happen.

You have another week to face. All the same jobs to do, the surroundings to enjoy or not, depending on how you feel.

I predict the sun will come up every morning this week. I further predict that when you turn on the tap, the water will continue to come out.

Your favorite store will have your favorite ice cream flavor next time you go in.

Somewhere you go this week will have flowers growing. They will be pretty flowers, stop and be thankful.

Your daughters will continue to love you, even if they sometimes disagree with you. Your friends will continue to appreciate your good qualities (perhaps they don't even realize you have any bad ones.)

There will be a sunset every night this week. Some will be beautiful, some plain. Your moments at home will be similar. It takes the plain ones for us to fully appreciate the beautiful ones.

What are your plans for you? What do you have to look foreword to in the short term, and the long term? What makes your world happier as the weeks go by? We know what makes it sad, so lets look the other direction today.

SS

Hi SS,
Believe me , I used to to be such a happy person, stopping to smell the roses and enjoying every little moment and seeing silver lining when life was rough. When I was 7, teachers were calling me My Sunshine because I was always happy and smiling. ( little they knew how alienated I felt thinking only MINE parents just got divorced... Now I do believe I was trying to make myself purposely all better, I don't remember much pain and sadness from that time though, but I do remember feeling all grown up since this happened ( I was about 6)).

I want my positive myself back.
I am doing better now than a year ago. I worked a bit in my garden yesterday and noticed one out of season lilac bloom. I again play with my cats even knowing I have plenty of "more important" things to do. Because I enjoy touching them and having them purr by my side.
So in short term pleasures, I made progress.
Going to a rock concert with my daughters this weekend. Not being scared of conversation with friends.

Long term, I am still equating joy with restoring our M. And that does not look good right now. Still being happy to fill my H needs on rare occasion he asks me for something ( usually just logistical support, nothing emotional).

Longer term joyous events - I hope my older one will maintain her excellent grades and in two years will go to college. My younger D health improved much after last change in meds. I am happy seeing her physically being able to achieve more, I am less afraid of usual cold and flu season this year.

And SS, this forum does make me realize that many of MBrs face much greater difficulties in their M, their jobs, family situation, health and money than I am trying to deal with.

Thank you for you friendly insights. Food for thought, fuel for this one and weeks to come.
FBOW

Hi Sue and SS,
Bad morning.
I thought I was calm enough to approch my H when I thought he was mailing a gift to OW. I asked him if this was for OW. He got mad that I create scenes and told me to leave him alone. I tried to remain as calm as I could, nor DJ or anything telling him again that I do not like the state of M we have right know and I assumed that he by staying with us does not want to have a lousy M as well.
I told him that the past year all my attempts, guided by books or counseling do not seem to work, he angrily agreed saying that I should dicsountinue my experiments and just leave him alone.
That if his preence downstairs bothers me, he will move out, and if my intent is to destroy him by my attempts to talk, if this is what I want. I again said that I can leave him alone, but with the passing time and no changes and no ideas coming of him, I amgetting extremely fritrated and unhappy and I apologized that my frustrations do erupt during times like today.

Bottom line is he seems to be OK by beig left alone, thinks whatever I did during past year only angered him and had no positive input into M.

I am so sad now.
I told him NOT to think if leave him alone right now that I am OK with status quo.

I told him for next thirty days I am not going to go into his office or call him, I have still think if will say good morning or not.

He seems to want plan B. He mentioned if he bothers me that much that I want him to move away into the apartment. I said no, all I want is not to "destroy" you, I want a better marriage, I don't want to live like we live now, and I am frustrated with myself and my unsuccesful attempts.

I have such a headache right know. He left with kids so I am crying like I haven't cry in months.

I saw the Retrauville positive post and was thinking yesterday about the best way to suggest it. I don't think it matters now.

There all those books that I mention vaguely but never shown them to him.

I know my M is not all there is to this world, WHY I JUST CAN'T ADMIT IT'OVER and move on.

Realistically today's interraction tells me the A is not dead by any means so even Mr. Harley would not be surprised that no attepts to improve M succeed.

I don't think H even sees the way I act now as a consequence of his A. It is all my problem according to him. And this behavior "destroys" him and the M to boot.

I have no energy to think or do anything right now.
Sorry for the vent. I was never that frustrated in my whole life. With myself mostly.
FBOW

Hi FBOW,
I was going to try and communicate with you today because It's about my turn, but I am sorry it is on a kind of a down day for you. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I thought I was calm enough to approach my H when I thought he was mailing a gift to OW. I asked him if this was for OW. He got mad that I create scenes and told me to leave him alone. I tried to remain as calm as I could, nor DJ or anything telling him again that I do not like the state of M we have right know and I assumed that he by staying with us does not want to have a lousy M as well.

If by "create scenes" he means that you talk to him, then he needs an attitude adjustment. I am glad that you talked to him and told him your feelings. I think you needed to do that - and that you need to continue as long as he is in the A.

I told him that the past year all my attempts, guided by books or counseling do not seem to work, he angrily agreed saying that I should dicsountinue my experiments and just leave him alone.
That if his preence downstairs bothers me, he will move out, and if my intent is to destroy him by my attempts to talk, if this is what I want. I again said that I can leave him alone, but with the passing time and no changes and no ideas coming of him, I am getting extremely fritrated and unhappy and I apologized that my frustrations do erupt during times like today.

What do you mean by erupt? Did you start crying or did you get angry with him? I think you really do need to consider telling him "yes, if you don't want to work on our marriage, then you ought to move out."

Bottom line is he seems to be OK by beig left alone, thinks whatever I did during past year only angered him and had no positive input into M.

By leaving him along, you enable his A. He has no reason to do anything different than he is doing. He can plan for a future with her, he can move money to other accounts, buy a home in her country, lots of things. All while keeping you in the dark, and ignoring your needs. He can continue to build equity in your home that he gets part of in a settlement later. If she is in school, perhaps he is just waiting for her to finish.

I don't know that any of these things are true, but why should he change any thing right now? I believe you still do about everything he requests - help him when he asks- is this still true?

I am so sad now.
I told him NOT to think if leave him alone right now that I am OK with status quo.

Again, I don't know, but it looks like he is just killing time waiting for something. I don't think you telling him that means anything to him. I think his anger is just a ploy to get you to leave him alone so he can continue his plans. I believe you should have him leave and let her meet his needs if he won't let you meet them.

I told him for next thirty days I am not going to go into his office or call him, I have still think if will say good morning or not.
Think about that for a minute. Even your neighbors like you to say good morning to them. If you meet someone on the street and say good morning it would make them smile. IF he doesn't even want you to say good morning to him, that ought to tell you something about the state of mind he is in.

He seems to want plan B. He mentioned if he bothers me that much that I want him to move away into the apartment. I said no, all I want is not to "destroy" you, I want a better marriage, I don't want to live like we live now, and I am frustrated with myself and my unsuccessful attempts.

Now that you have talked to him, it would be easy to say: "I have thought about what you said about moving. I would still like to work on our marriage, but if you do not, perhaps you ought to go ahead and move out." If you don't do that, look at the 180 list on SAB's thread and I believe you should begin to use those in your relationship with him.

I have such a headache right know. He left with kids so I am crying like I haven't cry in months.
I am so sorry. If you lived closer we could all go out together tonight and talk. You have a right to cry. I would cry myself if it was me that had that conversation today. Remember that your friends care about you. W was going to write you, but she has been taking medication for a problem with her leg and it makes her feel ill and sleepy. She has been asleep most of today.

I saw the Retrauville positive post and was thinking yesterday about the best way to suggest it. I don't think it matters now.

If he won't even talk to you, I don't think it would do any good to bring that up to him. I feel he would have to agree to work on the marriage first.

There all those books that I mention vaguely but never shown them to him.
Same thing, he would have to want to work on things first You see, he is getting needs met from HER, but you are getting only one and a half from him. FS, and he helps with your daughters some. That is all.

I know my M is not all there is to this world, WHY I JUST CAN'T ADMIT IT'OVER and move on.
Do plan B first, how could that hurt? Unless you are willing to go on like this with no end in sight, or until they figure out how to get together, you ought to change things. It may mean he files for D, but I can't see any thing but that in the future anyway unless something changes. Don't let him do this on his terms.

Realistically today's interaction tells me the A is not dead by any means so even Mr. Harley would not be surprised that no attempts to improve M succeed.
Agreed. He will not pay attention to you or begin to work on your marriage while the A is ongoing.

I don't think H even sees the way I act now as a consequence of his A. It is all my problem according to him. And this behavior "destroys" him and the M to boot.

He needs consequences for his actions. Unless he sees some, there is no reason for him to change. He is comfortable with you leaving him alone, as he calls it. However, he still has you meet some of his needs. It means you do things for him so he can continue the A with her. Let him see what it will be like WITH YOU GONE. Let him move. It doesn't mean the marriage is over, it means he won't have you to meet his needs while he continues the A with her. He can still stop the A and come back.

I have no energy to think or do anything right now.
I don't know how you do as much as you do all week. I still think you, and Sue, Ginger, Starfish, and SAB are amazing. I don't know if I could do what you do at all. When you feel like that, don't be afraid to rest. Who's it going to hurt?

Sorry for the vent. I was never that frustrated in my whole life. With myself mostly.
What did you do that made you frustrated with you? I can see being frustrated with him, but why you?

Remember that Jesus Christ, the only perfect man to ever live was not able to save everyone that he spoke to. Only a small percentage of those living in his time listened to him. It was not the message, or the messenger, it was the listeners. You can't make your marriage succeed by saying just the right thing, or cooking nice meals, or doing anything he asks. You can be the best person you can be, and you can give all you have, but you can't do more than that, and you can't fix him.

I believe it's time to let him solve his own problems. Separate your finances if you have to. Let him cope on his own with the problem he has created. How can he learn anything until he has to do that?

I want to tell you again, this is not something that you caused. He is wrong, he should not be doing what he is doing, and he needs to feel the results of his actions.

I am so sorry for your bad feelings of today. I hope by the time you read this you are doing better. Please know that we care, and would help more if we could.

SS

Thank you, SS, Sue and other MBers; even if you never commmented on my thread, quite possibly I lurked on yours and learned something that let me survive the past 18 months and learn to deal with events now and in the future.
I had rough three days. I am so thankful to my long distance friends, who offered me support, prayers, consolation, gentle advice over the phone and in the email.
I needed it and I still do. No major action by me yet.
Reading "Divorce busters" again, searching for 180 and other techniques. Leaning on AD, excercising patience, composing a letter in my head, not on paper.
Baking cookies with YD, who misses her best friend who moved and is no longer at the same school.
Waiting for the weekend, yet two more workdays still.
Looking for cats to snuggle with. Not buying chocolate, but surrendering to low fat rocky road ice cream.
Playing countless scenarios in my head, jumping from one extreme to the other. Anxious one minute, lethargic the next.
I know it is up to me to get off the rollercoaster. Scary ride, more scary to get off, what moment to pick, where do I land...
See you in a few days.
FBOW

I need help, I feel myself surrending to the dark side.

It may be too late, I had dark chocolate after lunch. Ahhhhhhhhh Help meeeeeee.

SS

SS,take heart:

good news!

Seriously, I hope whatever issues you are dealing with are POJAble.

I realize that you live in real world too and do encouter trouble on the way just us. You are better in identifying and dealing with problems before they grow out of control, and you know the value of patience, negotiation, and following up.

All the best to you,
FBOW

<small>[ September 18, 2003, 06:17 PM: Message edited by: forbetterorworse ]</small>

I was afraid of the chocolate. Now that I have read the link, I should eat more?

Ha, it's almost all gone, so I don't have to worry about it.

Except for this one little piece on my desk, and it will be gone in a few seconds.

I feel better now.

How bout you? Does low fat Rocky Road do as good of a job as chocolate?

SS

Hi SS,
well, for me nothing matches the healing power of milk chocolate ( but not too mushy and sweet) , preferably with whole hazelnuts or macadamias mmmmm...

Ice cream was good, carried me thru the week, I have none left for tomorrow though.
Remember we recognized our common chocolate crutch few months ago, so do you think it's just a seasonal stumble and giving in the addiction?
I lost my inner calmness and detachment that AntiD helped me achieve. I am not obsessing ALL the time, but my recurrent thoughts are back, so is what-iffing and worrying. I think this is a sign for me to change the situation around me somehow. One more nudge, this time from my body... I really do not want to get any refills.

Emotionally ( read crying) I am doing very well. I am able to obtain good focus at work, but I tire more esily and can not concentrate for very long periods of time. Got some good words of appreciation again, but my $$ inquiry still falls on deaf ears.

On the "enjoy what you can" approach I am thankful for the praise anyway.
YD lost the alternative late bus today too. So we are back to square one re PM transportation arrangement. Whatever we come up with might ruin her afterschool clubs she already signed up for.
Oh well I'll think about it tomorrow as my favorite romance heroine used to say.
Take care,
FBOW

for me nothing matches the healing power of milk chocolate ( but not too mushy and sweet) , preferably with whole hazelnuts or macadamias mmmmm...

I like it all. I tend to buy the big bars and eat a square ever 2nd or third night and make it last a month or so. That works for me. I can go months without (and have even done so) but I share with the twins when I read them stories at night and we rotate. Some nights it is popcorn, some times fruit, and so on.

Ice cream was good, carried me thru the week, I have none left for tomorrow though.
Remember we recognized our common chocolate crutch few months ago, so do you think it's just a seasonal stumble and giving in the addiction?

Mostly it is that I was given the chocolate, so I ate it. Sometimes people are nice to me at work.

I lost my inner calmness and detachment that AntiD helped me achieve. I am not obsessing ALL the time, but my recurrent thoughts are back, so is what-iffing and worrying. I think this is a sign for me to change the situation around me somehow. One more nudge, this time from my body... I really do not want to get any refills.
W asks if you adjusted your dose agiin? She says when ever she adjusts hers UP or DOWN it affects her that way. She says if you leave it alone for a while, it should work better again. Don't be afraid of refils. Do whatever works. You are NOT in a normal situation at home. Don't be afraid to get help, it is not a sign of weakness. It means you are smart enough to accept help when you need help. All of us do at sometime in our lives.

If it is not that, then yes, think about changing something.

Emotionally ( read crying) I am doing very well. I am able to obtain good focus at work, but I tire more esily and can not concentrate for very long periods of time.

I told something very similar to my Dad and he said "Oh, you are just getting old." and he laughed and laughed. I didn't think it was funny. But now, it is getting more and more humuorus as I get older. It is better to laugh about it than to cry. (That's a joke. I admit is a poor one, but never the less..........)

On the "enjoy what you can" approach I am thankful for the praise anyway.
YD lost the alternative late bus today too. So we are back to square one re PM transportation arrangement. Whatever we come up with might ruin her afterschool clubs she already signed up for.
Oh well I'll think about it tomorrow as my favorite romance heroine used to say.

I do a lot of delay until tomorrow too. I find I can think more clearly when I am rested, and almost always come up with better plans in the morning.

There are still hard times ahead, but you will get through them. I have a great deal of faith in you. Never, never, never give up.

SS

<small>[ September 18, 2003, 11:08 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Oh Look,

Here's FBOW's thread back from page 4.

I know you are out there somewhere.........

SS

Hi SS,
I am acting according to "if you have nothing nice to say, you better say nothing at all".
So I rarely post.
Seriously, though, I have a feeling of being stuck again.

The AD are not working right. I am extremely tired and sleepy on 20mg, mu metabolism is out of whack, have horrendous cravibgs for chocalate and bread, by body feels achy and too tired to reach for a tv remote. So there go my exercise plans. I am afraid to stop taking them as I understand they enable me to function daily.

I addition my inlaws are coming over for Xmas and want all of to join them for a vacation.

Normally although stressful, it would be a good idea, but now I don't know what I to do. Go with the flow? With a H that rarely responds with good morning and never initiates any conversation or outing and often leaves the room/table when I join?

I am pondering writing him a letter.
Will let you know if I come closer to doing it.

Have a good weekend
FBOW